MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

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Saturday, June 11th, 2016, 00:42 UTC
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[02:33:58] jr3us: I'll have to experiment a bit with myth gallery and removable devices. My testing earlier today with .28 and a memory stick plugged into the masterbackend/frontend were not encouraging. Are they supposed to show up when going into Videos? I'm not grokking the steps yet. What I did for testing was copy a few m4v videos to a memory stick for testing.
[02:34:34] jr3us: That work fine when in the traditional videos directory tree.
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[03:31:26] MitchCapper: anyone notice that the HLS files are encoding audio in the video segments too;)
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[08:52:23] dekarl: MitchCapper: isn't that the original default? over at exoplayer they hint that separate audio streams are supported since HLS v4 https://github.com/google/ExoPlayer/issues/73 . . . ent-58316702
[08:53:17] dekarl: seeing that exoplayer only got support lately I'd not completely remove audio from the video stream just now
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[11:39:24] dekarl: stuartm, do you use custom power search rules? just created one via mythweb but that resulted in no chanid and can't be edited in the web frontend: E HttpServer106 serverSideScripting.cpp:402 (EvaluatePage) Error calling QSP File: /usr/share/myth
[11:39:24] dekarl: tv/html/tv/schedule.qsp(392) – Error: Channel ID is invalid
[11:42:14] dekarl: the same might happen after a rescan – reconnecting "this channel" rules where the channel went missing would be nice, too
[11:51:10] dekarl: filed a ticket for that https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12808
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[21:14:35] jpabq: gary_buhrmaster: I tried you latest version of the xmltv grabber. It looks like it works.
[21:14:39] jpabq: That being said, hitting 'I' to bring up program info in the guide seems broken now — must be some time in the last week.
[21:18:32] jpabq: Using `tv_grab_na_sd --list-channels` brings up a nice JSON list. It seems to me the easiest way to match that to an OTA channel scan, is by the channel number. The xmltv list has "2.1" while myth defaults to "2_1", but that is an easy conversion. I am really surprised that no one has written a utility to take the output of `--list-channels` and use it to automatically populate mythconverg.channel with the xmltvid and icon. Or, is it not as
[21:18:32] jpabq: simple as it seems?
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[21:29:43] jpabq: ...sorry, I meant xml, not json.
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[22:16:05] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: I think it is "simple" only because this particular grabber tries to provide useful "--list-channels". Not all grabbers provide (or can) provide that type of information.
[22:16:28] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: And as the setup is (mostly) one time, I suspect a bunch of people do not bother to automate.
[22:18:05] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: I will note that (while not formally accepted as official XMLTV) --get-lineup provides enough information to auto-populate some of the OTA channel list without a scan (it includes the frequency data).
[22:18:55] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: And in the rest of the world, the SD data also has (in some cases) the network/service ids that can be used to match too.
[22:19:29] jpabq: gary_buhrmaster: Ah, yes. The data returned in --get-lineup is even better.
[22:19:39] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: I will note that if you have a OTA HDHR of recent vintage the html interface can also produce enough information to "auto-populate" the MythTV tables.
[22:20:42] jpabq: rmeden: Will --get-lineup become part of the 'standard'?
[22:20:47] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: Be careful, as the --get-lineup fills in the <program> field "on spec" (it is not really in the SD data, but at least in test cases, 90% of the time the OTA channels match the atsc_minor with the program number).
[22:21:57] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: There have been (for years at this point) 3 different lineup proposals that have bounced around without (AFAIK) consensus on how to proceed. I (tried to) implement the one that (I think) dekarl proposed (as being most complete).
[22:22:50] dekarl1: \o/ in the last 24h we passed 1000 installations of fixes/0.28 known to Smolt.
[22:22:55] dekarl1 is now known as dekarl
[22:23:53] jpabq: I see <preset>22.1</preset> as well as <atsc-channel><number>22.1</number></atsc>
[22:25:06] jpabq: I am guessing <preset> would be more universal?
[22:27:46] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: I did note that I thought the NoLineupProposal might be able to use some improvements for ATSC areas. But since all of them seemed to die for lack of interest (years ago), I did not try to engage.
[22:28:45] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: Some of the usage is very ("the entire world except for the US") DVB focused.
[22:29:12] jpabq: No real surprise.
[22:31:44] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: I could go into a diatribe about how the US missed in opportunity to get in step with ATSC 3.0, but it does not change the US is different.... (it is not just the US, of course, but it is US centric).
[22:31:53] dekarl: we could do something like add a atsc-service element that works well for that use case, e.g. with signalled short/long name of the service. Whatever works for identifying the service programmatically
[22:33:12] dekarl: I didn't have any insight on how ATSC/SCTE stuff works when I wrote that, so I concentrated on writing down what I thought could work. (notice the etsi-pdc-cni stuff, that is something the channels signal. I have no idea if you have anything similar)
[22:34:41] dekarl: The main idea was to get something off the ground that can work without heaps of manually curated lists, but still compatible with manually curated lists.
[22:34:42] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: There are equivalent things. But is the NoLineupProposal going to move forward? I thought all of the various <lineup> proposals had mostly just died.
[22:35:37] dekarl: gary_buhrmaster: the proposoal from knowledgejunkie (tv_grab_uk_rt) and mine are both implemented (have to verify with davic how much data he currently has on file)
[22:35:58] jpabq: dekarl: This is what I get http://pastebin.com/P79vmi7N
[22:36:17] dekarl: ahh ditch that. knowledgejunkie implemented lineups, but no proposal credits him
[22:37:56] dekarl: jpabq: that data doesn't look so bad
[22:38:35] jpabq: dekarl: Yes, it is quite usable. I just don't know how 'standard' it is in regards to matching the channum in mythconverg.channel
[22:38:36] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: Note two things I quickly saw in that: 0) the <program> is made up from the atsc_minor (because SD does not have the actual info), but is "usually" the same as the atsc_minor
[22:39:11] dekarl: jpabq: you could just match via frequency and program_number
[22:39:37] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: 1) Your SD lineup has analog channels. That is almost certainly a bug in the SD (upstream from Gracenote) data. Except for the rare low-power exception, all analogs are required (by the FCC) to be off the air.
[22:40:08] dekarl: I'm not sure if its mandatory, but program_number (the MPEG TS thing) and atsc_minor appear to be the same value. (similar to program_number and service_id in DVB)
[22:40:20] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: However, Gracenote does not always get the local OTAs right when they transitioned from analog to digital. I had to open a number of tickets with SD so that they could open tickets with Gracenote to clean up their data.
[22:40:35] jpabq: I believe those stations are still broadcasting. I can BARELY still receive one of them (mostly snow).
[22:41:33] jpabq: dekarl: yes, I have never seen program != service_id.
[22:41:51] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: Then it must be one of the few low power stations. They will not last (long) as they are in the range that auction 1000/1001 will be selling to the mobile operators.
[22:42:40] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: the <program> does not HAVE to be the same as the atsc_minor, it just almost always is. But (and I might have this wrong, it has been a long time since I touched that part of the code),
[22:42:51] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: <program> was "required", so I filled it in.
[22:45:37] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: Or maybe I just figured that since it was almost always right, it would make auto-population work in the high enough range that it was worth it. The memory is the 2nd thing to do (after the knees, I really miss my knees).
[22:46:02] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: s/to do/to go/
[22:46:07] dekarl: Our code uses frequency and program_number for tuning, that's why I suggested to look at that. It should always match the what is actually in the air.
[22:47:33] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: Unfortunately (for a grabber from SD), the actual program is not provided in the data (and I think I even checked the gracenote definition at one point; it is not something SD could get from upstream).
[22:48:08] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: But for ATSC channels, there is a match with the atsc major_minor (which is in the SD/Gracenote data).
[22:48:27] jpabq: dekarl: this is what got filled in my a channel scan: http://pastebin.com/raw/S30c809b
[22:48:52] jpabq: s/my/by/
[22:49:13] dekarl: ahh, not with channum (the combined string of major_minor) but the individual fields? Sounds good, too
[22:50:00] dekarl: channum, callsign, name are user editable, so I'd not bet on them
[22:50:21] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: So, US channel frequencies 43 and 47 seem to have both the (likely?) original analog and the digital channel info in there. Likely a "transition" data overlay.
[22:51:50] jpabq: KASA-HD is at UHF channel 27. Shows up in the guide as 2.1
[22:51:56] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: Of which you would need to get SD to open a case with Gracenote (I think it took a few weeks for the various things to get adjusted as the various parties (Gracenote and station) had to talk).
[22:52:47] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: And that is perfectly reasonable (if not confusing to some of the people some of the time).
[22:54:47] jpabq: Matching <atsc><number>4.1</number</atsc> to atsc_major_chan / atsc_minor_chan seems like the most reliable — but would only work in the US. I don't see any way of reliably matching world-wide.
[22:55:21] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: Looks like ~4 channels may have to move (depending on the results of Auction 1000/1001) in your location (I am curious about larger locations and the impact on selling the 600MHz freqs).
[22:56:56] dekarl: you need transmission system specific matching as soon as you add IP transports to the mix
[22:57:08] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: Agreed (on US vs World match).
[22:57:16] jpabq: dekarl: in the rest of the word, what is <atsc-channel>...</atsc-channel> replaced by?
[22:57:25] jpabq: Or is it grabber specific?
[22:57:54] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: Agreed. I presume it will be added to the Mythical TODO list that someone keeps somewhere.
[22:58:50] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: dvb has transport/network/service ids.
[22:59:54] dekarl: jpabq: i have not looked at SD data yet. But we have original_network+service ids. (add network/area/transport type/country ids for some transmission types)
[23:01:23] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: the SD data has (in theory) freq, network, transport, and service id.
[23:02:29] dekarl: gary_buhrmaster: do they have anything beyond raw tuning data? like a map "this channel is a variant of that channel" that can be used for "this channel" rules?
[23:02:30] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: But some of the lineups are currently mis-identified as their type, so not all of the data is available. I presume this can be fixed by opening tickets with SD (who may need to open cases with Gracenote).
[23:03:01] dekarl: gary_buhrmaster: the common problem of raising the data quality by actually using the data as is :)
[23:03:09] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: I also presume that some of the SD inaccuracies are due to the "recent" adjustment to support non-US.
[23:05:01] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: In some cases there might be enough info to show two channels are equivalent, but I do not know enough about how accurate the SD data is for "the entire world" (minus the US).
[23:05:21] dekarl: did anyone try to let MFDB do automatic matching? The code is a little bit hard to follow, but in theory should match by channel name
[23:06:13] dekarl: for a service that has lineups based on fined grained locations that might actually work
[23:08:23] gary_buhrmaster: Except for an occasional test (with rabbit ears that can pick up about 2 stations, if I hold the ears just right), I do not use OTA, and the "unscannable" lineup matches has some issues I have some patches in various states of trials.
[23:08:26] jpabq: dekarl: I have never tried to use mfdb. Are instructions on the wiki?
[23:09:38] jpabq: Or is that short for mythfilldatabase?
[23:09:41] gary_buhrmaster: I suppose I should actually go back to looking at that match logic rather than discuss that it does not do what I want......
[23:10:57] dekarl: jpabq: yes, its short for mythfilldatabase
[23:11:46] jpabq: dekarl: with the 'native' ScheduleDirect grabber, it matches pretty well. It does not even try with the xmltv SD grabber(s).
[23:12:06] dekarl: it doesn't know about lineups. that's why I wondered if its easiest to hack up a script (that also can be used on 0.28 / 0.27 and possibly older installations as is)
[23:15:41] gary_buhrmaster: jpabq: Just as a FYI, two of the four OTA channels I can scan has the program != the atsc_minor. Not great odds for my particular case......
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