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aloril, Anssi, blahdodo, brfransen, Captain_Murdoch, Casper0082, ChanServ, Chutt, clever, cmcginty, CyberJacob, davic, dekarl, dym, ElmerFudd, emm386, enyc, gary_buhrmaster, ghost42, ghoti, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, high-rez, Hydr0p0nX, ikevin, jab416171, jams, jheizer_, joki, jpabq_, jpharvey, jst, jya, knowledg1junkie, lapion, lautriv__, libsci, logan-, mad_enz, markspieth, membiblio, MitchCapper, MythBuild, MythLogBot, nephyrin, peper03, poptix, pppingme, purserj, rich0, rmeden, Roklobster, saaki, seld, sphery, sraue, stuarta, taylorr, tgm4883, Tobbe5178, tonsofpcs, tris, unforgiven512, vincent42, wagnerrp, Warped, XDS2010, _charly_
Sunday, May 29th, 2016, 01:38 UTC
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[16:04:37] high-rez: Hi. I looked through the docs and couldn't see anything – but I wanted to be sure: Is it possible to download video using the services api, or must that still be done with the Myth Protocol?
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[16:52:03] dekarl: high-rez: like this?
[17:02:35] dekarl: meh switching mythbuntu ppas 0.28->0.29 still doesn't "just work"? :( Versuch, »/usr/lib/« zu überschreiben, welches auch in Paket libmyth-0.28–0 2:0.29.0~master.20160412.ea5fdd4–0ubuntu0mythbuntu3 ist
[17:03:02] dekarl: tgm4883: superm1: are you attached to the version number as part of the package name?
[17:03:41] tgm4883: dekarl: how are you upgrading?
[17:04:04] dekarl: tgm4883: plain old switching repo with mcc then apt-get update, upgreade, dist-upgrade
[17:04:31] dekarl: looks like libmythtv29 doesn't conflict with libmythttv28
[17:04:57] dekarl: or another package
[17:06:11] dekarl: . . . is missing 0.28 in the conflicts/replaces lists :(
[17:06:41] dekarl: I'd just remove the -#ABI#-0 suffix and move on
[17:06:43] tgm4883: Ah OK,i should add that
[17:07:12] dekarl: we don't gain anything from that (well, we gain work and issues)
[17:07:58] dekarl: it appears as if once upon a time the idea was to allow multiple versions of the libs installed in parallel. but its not used, we send everyone to the service api instead of directly linking to our libs
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[17:54:14] high-rez: dekarl: Crap, I guess that's exactly what I was looking for.  :)
[17:56:47] high-rez: So if I want to pull livetv I use the services api to start recording something under the livetv groupthen just call getfile on it?
[17:59:48] dekarl: I have no idea wrt the livetv group, but you can just add a manual recording, of say 12 hours, to fake livetv
[18:00:25] dekarl: real livetv support for our UPNP / Service API would be nice, too. (its not that hard, its just that no dev uses livetv)
[18:00:37] high-rez: Aha
[18:00:42] high-rez: Maybe that explains it.
[18:01:08] high-rez: I was looking at packet traces and the wiki to try and understand how the kodi mythtv pvr addon is behaving and noticed it was using the myth protocol for livetv
[18:01:30] high-rez: And was hoping I could just use services api for the same.
[18:02:07] high-rez: (full disclosure, I'm trying to integrate my mythbackend with my Android TV STBs around my house – so writing a native live tv provider using a mythbackend)
[18:03:13] high-rez: But your workaround makes sense. Then cancel the recording when the user wants to change channels, stops watching livetv etc.
[18:03:33] dekarl: what recorders do you use? depending on the amount of channels there are many easier/better option then on-demand fake dynamic manual recordings ;)
[18:03:53] high-rez: hdhomerun and dvb-s
[18:03:57] dekarl: yes, simply cancel it. IIUIC the livetv recording group will take care of cleanup
[18:04:56] dekarl: unless you need multirec or tuner sharing you can just use the hdhr's http streaming
[18:05:21] dekarl: but there is no protection between livetv and the scheduler then
[18:05:22] high-rez: Yeah, I want sharing... Because I use myth for recording as well.
[18:05:32] dekarl: (its on the list)
[18:05:49] high-rez: PLus, I think it would be swank to have myth fully integrated into android tv
[18:05:55] high-rez: and probably increase the WAF of my setup.
[18:05:56] high-rez: :P
[18:06:23] dekarl: ok, so you want device sharing (one tuner recording the other livetv) but don't depend on tuner sharing (recording one service with the scheduler and at the same time watching it live)
[18:06:30] dekarl: ?
[18:07:17] dekarl: tbh, my womans prefer binge watching video-on-demand / recorded stuff alrady ;)
[18:08:12] dekarl: ^- typos are an attention test :(
[18:08:49] gary_buhrmaster: high-rez: depending on your tuner vendor, at least one already had Android TV "live channels" integration (or at least states that), but that is completely outside of MythTV.
[18:10:07] high-rez: gary: Yeah HDHR does, but I'd rather use myth to abstract the recording devices and provide PVR capability.
[18:11:06] dekarl: high-rez: which side of the ocean are you? aka is the DVB-S part of the WAF
[18:11:27] high-rez: No DVB-S is a geek thing for me (I'm in the USA)
[18:11:55] high-rez: Thanks folks!
[18:11:55] dekarl: getting mythtv and other hdhr clients to cooperate better should be straightforward. If you are looking for a hacking project :)
[18:28:57] MitchCapper: dekarl when you say real livetv, what limitations are you saying with the current service API?
[18:31:45] MitchCapper: I mean certainly it requires a fairly advanced client to try and stitch together as good as a mythfrontend type livetv experience with file hopping, a continous timeline, etc but with recroding scheduling HLS livestreaming does hold on in progress recordings I would imagine it should be possible.
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[19:15:53] dekarl: MitchCapper: well, its a straightforward hack. but still a hack. you set a 12 hour (or whatever) recording and then stream that with delay. but channel changes mean aborting the recording and setting up a new one then streaming that (slower channel changes). possibly on a different recorder (faster channel changes)
[19:16:31] dekarl: not sure if that works well with HLS thrown into the mix
[19:17:15] MitchCapper: HLS seems pretty good with live recordings, but yeah the delays are not great im trying to imagine exactly how it would be overly improved I guess I could look at mythprotocol for liveTV and see how that works.
[19:18:06] dekarl: the tricky parts will be making it bullet proof (or close) e.g. when three clients want to want the same channel, how many recordings are that? how does cleaning up / bookkeeping work if one client crashes?
[19:19:03] dekarl: having a proper http/rtsp endpoint for livetv moves the bookkeeping into the backend(s)
[19:19:51] dekarl: that's why I tried to figure out if the use case fits for adding hdhr device sharing instead and use the direct livetv
[19:21:18] MitchCapper: with HLS that would probably work somewhat easily with some changes to mythtranscode although for non-hls that is more complicated as you have multiple raw file formats and most players would need to reload on format change
[19:21:53] dekarl: fwiw, I don't see livetv chains for third party clients as the first step. aka trick playing around across channel switches while channel surfing
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[19:22:31] dekarl: how do you switch channel after handing playback off to an external player anyway?
[19:22:50] MitchCapper: that assumes you can't control the player
[19:23:22] dekarl: hmm, can always embed the player with some tricks. so control goes to the client but playback is from the player.
[19:24:21] MitchCapper: I think the backend handling is certainly a great step for live tv as the complexity otherwise is fairly huge but it would almost require hls (or maybe a proper push notification channel)
[19:25:08] MitchCapper: and with some people unable to transcode fast enough for livetv HLS is probably out for them (#12778 may help)
[19:25:08] ** MythLogBot **
[19:25:28] dekarl: or go the other way and add DASH + a "HbbTV no frontend frontend" ;)
[19:26:09] MitchCapper: I guess if you had an API call for ChangeChannel which then returned the new filename direct playback wouldnt be too bad and could be done without a notification channel.
[19:26:11] dekarl: MitchCapper: we are just rolling out HEVC 1080p50, good luck real time transcoding that to anything else :D
[19:26:57] MitchCapper: although other clients listening on the same channel would probably need a notification to not be surprised by end of file.
[19:27:42] dekarl: how about a dedicated stream per client. just start any player with that stream and do channel changes completely in the backend
[19:28:18] MitchCapper: yeah so thats the HLS method essentially right, although you dont need a stream per client.
[19:28:23] dekarl: wrap it up in MPEG2-TS inside HTTP or DASH and thats it
[19:28:29] MitchCapper: as a client can go backwards or forward in HLS without issue
[19:32:20] MitchCapper: Does dash gain anything over the existing HLS support? i guess more format options.
[19:33:48] dekarl: wider client support, e.g. native support on most tv sets
[19:36:38] dekarl: MitchCapper: its an international mpeg standard vs a one-man-show. But then this means "yet another mpeg patent pool trolling everyone" :/
[19:38:07] dekarl: But I like the idea of the new web frontend being able to run on hbbtv browsers :)
[19:38:18] dekarl: gtg and actually use mythtv a bit
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[23:01:17] tgm4883: dekarl: thought about it all day, I think you're right about dropping the ABI from the version number
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[23:15:37] tgm4883: dekarl: Should be fixed I think in the next 0.29 build . . . d0513146821c
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