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Monday, May 16th, 2016, 00:44 UTC
[00:44:02] MitchCapper: Is there a 2 thread cap on x264 encoding? despite setting HTTPLiveStreamThreads to 16 (and mythtranscode logging its using 16 threads) I can't exceed around 230% cpu usage. implies there may be.
[00:47:35] Hydr0p0nX: interesting, I'd like to know about that too as my video card will handle hardware x264 encodes
[01:15:31] MitchCapper: I do see a hardcoded c->slices = 8; in avformatwriter.cpp for h264, which sets the picture subdivisions im not sure if that is too low for more threads or its something else.
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[06:35:43] dekarl: MitchCapper: ok, so power-of-two looks good.
[06:36:13] dekarl: Hydr0p0nX: your video card has a hardware h.264 encoder? that has nothing to do with x264 (the software encoder)
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[08:31:53] stuarta: hmmm, definitely needed to apply updates to archlinux builder
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[09:01:19] dekarl: enyc: the simple igmpproxy is more for a "extending iptv provider multicast" across an additional hop use case
[09:03:48] stuarta: dekarl: just checking on the archlinux libcec installation
[09:04:32] enyc: dekarl: thats what i noticed from reading one of those... im sort of surprised hadnt found a eclary 'here is how to dlna across on a multi subnetted network'
[09:05:06] dekarl: enyc: these "new" things, like multicast and ipv6 are still greek to many out there ;)
[09:05:14] ** stuarta hugs ipv6 **
[09:05:27] enyc: dekarl: how does mythtv work if given an IP address on 2 different networks (2 NICs etc.), assuming the addresses are nnifact reachable form each network... ?
[09:05:52] enyc: stuarta: i recall much fun making update for packaing to seamlessly update mythbuntu mysql listen socket to be ipv6-compatible, faff faff faff ...
[09:05:56] dekarl: enyc, I think its easier to listen on one ip and us routing
[09:06:48] enyc: dekarl: ... but... if the server is on more than one netowrk, will it nonetheless successfully be DLNA discoverable from both networks? (assuming, as you say, the 'main' ip address is otherwise routed/accessible to both networks)
[09:06:57] dekarl: we are having a hard time with link-local-ipv6, multihoming would be up next[tm]
[09:07:22] enyc: dekarl: oh, i've been using static global ipv6 addresses =)
[09:07:51] dekarl: enyc I just looking if I can find the TTL that our announcements use
[09:08:02] enyc: dekarl: i didn't mean announcement passing the router...
[09:08:29] enyc: dekarl: i meant, if e.g. mythtv server given an ip addresn + nic on 'both' networks, say, — will it (directly only) 'announce' on both lans anyway
[09:09:01] enyc: dekarl: only one of those nic-connections would have a default-route of course
[09:09:18] dekarl: enyc: no, i do not think that we send mutiple copies of the announcements, one per source address
[09:09:27] enyc: dekarl: and it would be accepted that (via some other joining router) there was already access *between* those netowrks
[09:09:35] enyc: dekarl: hrrm
[09:09:47] enyc: dekarl: i wonder what ''destination'' is used for the announcements and therefore where the kernel delivers them
[09:11:15] dekarl: someone could dig into all the combinations of "listening address port" / "local addresses" / "protocols". IIRC the idea is to announce only whats reachable per announcement. e.g. announce the IPv6 endpoint via IPv6 only. But I've not dug into it yet.
[09:12:36] stuarta: dekarl: the thing is, what is reachable is partly determined by the client
[09:13:20] stuarta: eg, if the server has ipv6 enabled, then it automatically has a link local address which is reachable on that network segment, however if the client disables ipv6, it cannot reach the LL address
[09:13:20] enyc: so..... next question, what defines what 'listen sockets' mythtv creates anyway?
[09:14:31] enyc: some of them are bound to  ::+V6ONLY sock-opt and some bound to and so reachable on 'all' ipv4 and ipv6 addresses
[09:14:56] enyc: mysql likes to use a [::]:3306 (not V6ONLY sock-opt) so listens to all ipv4+ipv6 anyway
[09:15:52] stuarta: enyc: <backend_ip_address_setting>:<backend_port_setting>
[09:16:09] enyc: stuarta: ok and its' only ever a 'single' ipv4 socket and a 'single' ipv6 socket ??
[09:17:49] stuarta: not from what i see on my backend, which is ipv4 localhost, ipv4 (backend_ip_address_setting), ipv6 localhost, ipv6 LL, ipv6 global
[09:18:28] stuarta: why on earth do we explicitely bind to an ip address. what is wrong with just doing a wildcard bind???
[09:18:29] enyc: hrrrrm, so the configuration doesn't let you define _what_ ipv6 global address is used ??,
[09:18:51] enyc: stuarta: it *can* matter when sending UDP packets in reply, the source may go wrong
[09:19:13] enyc: stuarta: with individual sockets its possible to 'reply' with source matching the original destination on that socket
[09:19:22] enyc: stuarta: whereas, with TCP this problem doesn't happen
[09:24:55] enyc: i would presume, there is 'one' network-discovery-announcement 'per' socket, essentially
[09:25:44] enyc: each announcement, getting *only* to the right clients with te means to reply on the correct address/socket assounciated with that annoucement, therefore
[09:29:10] enyc: aah yes, thats' basically what dekarl said =)
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[09:33:38] stuartm: so just had a WTF moment – Ubuntu don't just end support for a release, they remove the security repos so you can't even patch it?
[09:33:54] enyc: stuarta: does it get moved to or something like that?
[09:33:58] enyc: error
[09:34:06] enyc: stuartm: ^^ — and debian do something similar iirc
[09:35:05] enyc: stuartm: still, it (could) be nice if they did a http redirect for that case, ro semithng... but its' also arguable they ought to fdail and make user realize there is a problem, who knows!
[09:38:29] stuartm: yeah, I'm not convinced of the 'make users realise there is a problem' argument, withholding existing security patches most likely means their first discovery that there is a problem is when their machine is owned
[09:38:49] enyc: =), yesa, and that could be achieved by updating the login file and so on to popup a warning
[09:39:40] enyc: stuartm: anyway, is there some archive? i can see ....
[09:40:30] enyc: that seems to have archives in there ... i would hope they migrated all the security-patches into the final archived version
[09:40:53] stuartm: yeah, I've just changed the urls to point there
[09:41:19] enyc: stuartm: you have a lucid10.04 box or similar?
[09:41:21] stuartm: hopefully I find the backport package I'm looking for otherwise things are going to get painful
[09:42:28] stuartm: enyc: 14.10 Ubuntu Server in production, needs an urgent update to the python3-spf package as the one they shipped has a nasty bug which rejects emails which should pass SPF
[09:42:42] enyc: stuartm: oh dear oh dear ;p
[09:42:44] stuartm: no idea how many emails I've lost due to that
[09:43:11] enyc: stuartm: i guess of course building a jessie or xenial replacement box would be a good idea of course =)
[09:45:02] stuartm: right but not trivial, I'll have to pay for another VPS, configure it then migrate which I don't have the time for
[09:46:42] stuartm: one thing I don't understand is how this instance managed to be built on a non-LTS release
[09:47:02] stuarta: stuartm: just upgrade it, works pretty well for me
[09:47:32] stuartm: stuarta: I might just do that, but I'm nervous and so will need to take sufficient backups first
[09:47:43] stuarta: wise man
[09:47:56] ** stuarta upgrades ubuntu-current build slave **
[09:48:27] stuartm: though I've been thinking of moving to Mythic anyway, this OVH VPS feels like a deadend
[09:48:44] enyc: stuartm: mythic-beasts ?
[09:49:06] stuarta: stuartm: you were always were going to try it
[09:49:34] stuartm: enyc: yeah
[09:49:49] enyc: stuartm: iv' not used their hosting buht i've largely only heard good things about them
[09:49:57] stuartm: same
[09:50:02] stuarta: i'm contemplating getting rid of my root server and moving to a vps from mythic too
[09:50:07] enyc: stuartm: they took a while (then apologized) to catchup on ipv6 for secondary-dns but got there in the end
[09:50:46] stuartm: a while back I very nearly went with them, but I figured I'd try out this ridiculously cheap OVH offer just for the hell of it
[09:51:10] stuartm: somehow that became a permanent move instead of just the temporary trial I'd intended
[09:51:43] enyc: maybe mythic will offer something else cheap too?? ;-)
[09:51:45] stuarta: better than osuosl, they still can't activate ipv6 in their infrastructure
[09:52:18] enyc: stuarta: I wonder what sort of scandal it will take =)
[09:52:57] stuarta: apparently it's moved from being something the university needs to do, to something the lab needs todo
[09:53:22] stuartm: their prices are affordable, that wasn't really the issue previously, it's just the OVH offer was practically free and who doesn't like free?
[09:53:39] enyc: stuartm: are OVH being a pain ?
[09:54:30] enyc: also, I wonder what happens if you just ask them about a temporary server for migration test purposes, etc, they may make a suggestion or help
[09:56:52] stuartm: no, it's just that it's OpenVZ based so no kernel upgrades which limits upgrades
[09:57:24] enyc: stuartm: haw you told them what problem(s) this causes / discussed options with them?
[09:57:35] stuartm: never had a problem with OVH, I just feel that I'd be happier with Mythic if I ever do have a problem
[09:58:05] enyc: well ok =) what do you need to do in your likfe to make time to do the new-setup / transfer-over ?
[09:58:47] stuartm: get a job that doesn't have me working 12 hour days and every other weekend?
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[10:03:21] stuartm: so for now I manually downloaded a more recent version of the package from the trustry-backports repo and installed that
[10:03:33] stuartm: buys me another few weeks
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[10:11:08] stuarta: i'm just looking to save a few $$
[10:11:12] stuarta: well ££
[10:26:55] enyc: osuols claims "we're hiring" for a full time systems admin=)
[10:29:05] stuarta: well i'm nowhere near there, nor do i want a new job
[10:29:19] enyc: =) i just observed thats all
[10:32:04] Merlin83b: 12 hours for 12/14 days, stuartm?!
[10:41:55] stuartm: not 12 hours on the weekends, just working part of the weekend so that on top of the mundane chores like shopping, cooking, cleaning and DIY there's not much time left for projects like migrating a server :)
[10:42:28] stuarta: i fit things like that in when i need a break
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[15:17:53] MitchCapper: dekarl yep I also get a slightly odd error that the 'yadif' filter doesn't exist (it is different from the file not found error though) I would assume erroneous as its clearly de-interlacing but saw it while investigating something else in the logs
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[16:26:13] dekarl: dmfrey: ahh, i'll +1 my mythbackend docker image with Blender movies as samples task... (i figured what should fi multicast, so it may be viable fpr upnp demos, too) the blurred stuff looks... not so impressive
[16:27:12] dmfrey: i know, but the app gets flagged by their proprietary content filters and pulled when I leave them as is
[16:27:47] dekarl: that should not happen with Blender open movie content?
[16:27:57] dmfrey: ah, true
[16:28:30] dmfrey: that tool was a great find, btw
[16:29:16] dmfrey: i haven't tried pushing the content up to the store yet
[16:29:34] dmfrey: but i expect it to just replace all those images and screenshots
[16:30:16] dmfrey: the i18n will be a benefit and i might need to put a wiki out there in the project for anyone interested in providing a translation
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[17:23:33] dekarl: dmfrey: the only thing missing in bill's translation guide appears to be the "fork, *and then create a branch*, then translate, commit and pull request" so random other commits don't get accidently attached to the pull request
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[18:52:16] dmfrey: bill6502, did you see dekarl message a few lines back about the translation wiki?
[18:53:42] bill6502: dmfrey: I did, and touched it up a bit (responded to dekarl over on the -users channel by mistake)
[18:54:17] dmfrey: ah, cool
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[20:25:30] MitchCapper: bill6502 for #12753 is it fine to call into frontend code from the backend? do you want to also see GetConflict called first and it to abort if a conflict? I assume then a GetKeyString to get all the currently bound keys, then RemoveActionKey for each and then AddActionKey for each new key.
[20:25:30] ** MythLogBot **
[20:26:45] MitchCapper: I didn't seem to find any code actually including the frontend classes in the backend module.
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[20:31:55] bill6502: stuartm: can you answer MitchCapper's question about using FE code in the BE? I was recalling your comment "...Though one of the goals of the services API is that it uses existing classes". Or, should the existing FE code get moved elsewhere so that both can share it?
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[20:45:57] stuartm: technically, since you're sending keys to a frontend it should be part of the frontend services API, not the backend
[20:46:50] stuartm: but since you've brought up the topic, I think the logic behind the addition may be flawed
[20:47:27] MitchCapper: I would prefer to have the methods in the backend so that you dont have to make a call to every frontend to get its keybindings, but I can move it if you prefer. I could also split it to leave GetKeyBindList in the backend and PutKeybind in the frontend
[20:47:34] MitchCapper: oh?
[20:48:43] stuartm: rather than add apis to allow the user to manage frontend key bindings, which is a bit odd if you think about it, it seems more logical to me to change the sendKey api to sendAction instead?
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[20:48:50] MitchCapper: I figured it kills two birds with one stone, adds keybind editing support to the services API while also allowing SendKey to be more useful as SendAction seemed to becoming less desired.
[20:49:04] MitchCapper: I see.
[20:49:22] stuartm: sending keypresses to the frontend which then get converted into actions is backwards
[20:50:55] stuartm: maybe I'm alone on this, it just seems like trying to drink a pint while standing on your head – yes, you can do it, but why?
[20:50:56] MitchCapper: sure, although certain commands it makes sense on, you probably always want to do whatever the user has 'left' bound to no matter the context, but that user may not have left itself bound to that.
[20:51:40] MitchCapper: and I would guess the reason for the managing of keybindings in the service API existing would be the same reason it exists in mythweb. I don't have much of a strong opinion on the matter so if you give a direction I am happy to follow it.
[20:51:59] stuartm: I'm just struggling to understand the use case that's all, is the intention is to create a remote control?
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[20:53:44] MitchCapper: ah yes, for remote control and for frontend remote management. I believe the goal is to move away from mythweb, and I think it would be even better to use the new frontend do everything using the service API rather than backend code hooks.
[20:53:52] MitchCapper: new web frontend that is.
[20:54:13] stuartm: personally, if I was looking to remotely control the frontend from a screen, rather than mimicking the format of an analogue remote I'd want to create something where the options dynamically change depending on context – you wouldn't bind Left to Seek in playback, you'd show seek buttons
[20:54:25] stuartm: etc
[20:57:26] MitchCapper: agreed, but I can tell you im fairly used to hitting left and right to skip, so even though the buttons to do the same thing are on teh remote I still have that expected action, but its not a big deal to me. In addition the remote has to be a decent be smarter to update with context changes, and as the service API doesn't support push/poling/notifications consistently repole the FE to detect
[20:57:26] MitchCapper: when the context changes, which can almost certanly be wrong if someone hit enter or selected a recording and then tried to jump forward right away . So your preference here is don't allow the service API to manage key bindings, and to try and make sure SendAction works with all actions correctly?
[20:57:40] stuartm: anyway, that's just my line of thought, I've been thinking about this for all of 10 minutes so ...
[20:58:43] MitchCapper: at the end of the day as long as there is a way to do it thats all I care about but right now there is no solution.
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[21:00:31] stuartm: my preference is only that pursuing the whole send key thing is thought through carefully, that sticking with the logic of mimicking a keyboard through a direct API is done because there are solid reasons to do it, and not because the alternatives haven't been given consideration
[21:03:42] stuartm: my gut instinct is that it's like the guy who writes his emails in his email client, but instead of hitting send, prints them out, puts them in an envelope and mails them to the recipient by second class post
[21:03:44] MitchCapper: Sure. I guess SendKey and SendAction both exist, and SendKey is here to stay I also assume, if time should be devoted to fix SendAction to make sure it handles everything may be up for debate, and the other item is do you want to allow keybind management through the services API.
[21:05:07] stuartm: we're stuck with lots of hacky, obsolete stuff because people could only think to do it the way they've always done it even if it no longer made any sense in the modern world
[21:06:07] stuartm: it's late, so don't take anything I've said as the definitive answer
[21:06:09] MitchCapper: Yeah, the keybind management code could have a place outside hacking around SendKey though, just as it does in MythWeb. Your objection is not that an email client shouldn't exist or that 2nd class post shouldn't exist, just that someone shouldn't use one to do the other:)
[21:06:40] MitchCapper: no problem I just need a direction to code into so I can try and get remote control actually working:)
[21:07:10] stuartm: no, actually I don't think key binding editing should be done in a web app – what are the input cases for a frontend – keyboard or remote
[21:07:48] stuartm: if you have a frontend, editing the keys in the frontend by pressing the actual button on the remote and having it assigned to an action makes sense
[21:09:22] stuartm: but digging into the lirc config to see that the Guide button maps to the key G then going into your browser and assigning G to the Guide action is so unintuitive that I can't see why anyone would prefer that to the frontend's own onscreen key binding editor (especially if that editor was made simpler)
[21:11:44] stuartm: maybe that's the crux of the issue, that if the user feels the need to use a different input method/screen to achieve something instead of using the big screen (TV) the real solution is to fix the frontend UI
[21:11:46] MitchCapper: i assume it exists as its just faster to update keybindings in mythweb than in the FE itself for some (or to copy items between frontends), I just had used the mythweb version before so figured it also made sense as a service. There might also be the case of a 3rd party frontend wanting to have default keybinds that are similar to that of mythtv.
[21:12:45] MitchCapper: but they are weak excuses no doubt, so im fine dropping the additional API functionality.
[21:16:04] stuartm: copying keybindings from one frontend to another is definitely desirable functionality, and no doubt out of all of this discussion we can pull some ideas that everyone can agree would make for a positive change
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[21:19:01] stuartm: as far as the rest, like I said earlier, nothing is set in stone. There is no rush, we can afford to think and discuss on it some more
[21:21:42] stuartm: and just so no-one feels left out, it's certainly not the only potential addition to the services API which I have reservations about
[21:21:44] MitchCapper: Sure, but id like the functionality to not be broke/missing for too long, and once you reach a decision I am happy to probably code the solution.
[21:24:06] stuartm: right, not talking months or even weeks, just don't want to come to a conclusion in the space of a few minutes just before I go to bed. No doubt others will have an opinion, let's just given everyone a chance to consider it
[21:24:25] MitchCapper: no problem, for now I will hold until I hear further:)
[21:24:31] jams: MitchCapper are you using linhes?
[21:25:02] MitchCapper: no
[21:26:40] jams: Well I was going to say you could use mythutil to save off the keybindings and import, but since you are not using linhes that statement doesn't help you any
[21:28:05] MitchCapper: oh i could do it a lot of other ways, its not that I personally don't have a way of doing so:)
[21:34:15] jams: makes sense, just seeing if it would save you some effort. Frankly i'm not sure our users really know about it. Guess they use it during install and upgrades, just don't realize it.
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[21:38:41] MitchCapper: thanks:) i debated migrating to linhes awhile back but instead now just have a docker image I am using, not quite the same functionality but good enough for me and works for when I need to test my code changes:)
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