| Thursday, January 28th, 2016, 00:08 UTC | ||
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| [09:24:00] | warpme: | morning all! |
| [09:25:53] | warpme: | stuarta: regarding out yesterday's talk about rpi2 playback,buffers,decoded and OSD playabck data – pls look at this: http://warped.homenet.org/rpi2-playback.mov notice scroll jumpiness and high jumpiness when OSD playback data is displayed. |
| [09:27:41] | warpme: | playback log is here: http://pastebin.com/Cqke0319 |
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| [09:48:30] | stuartm_ is now known as stuartm | |
| [09:50:11] | stuartm: | I've not been following along, but is anyone building raspbian packages yet? |
| [09:58:25] | stuarta: | warpme: so i notice 2 things, your frames decoded is occasionally dropping to 0, and the avsync varies wildly |
| [09:58:45] | stuarta: | on the bright side, the data is there to feed the decoder |
| [09:59:14] | stuarta: | so the issues all lie in the decode/sync part of things |
| [09:59:49] | stuarta: | you'll see in the logs it's dropping frames (which causes jerky vision) "Video is 3.52113 frames behind audio (too slow), dropping frame to catch up." |
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| [10:08:34] | dekarl: | stuartm: I'm no aware of anyone building our packages for Raspbian. Doesn't that come automatically once our packages hit Debian? (how is that going along?) |
| [10:14:08] | stuartm: | maybe it does? I assumed that with the particular requirements of the hardware some packages would be rebuilt for raspbian |
| [10:16:46] | stuartm: | if you know the target hardware there are always going to be some optimisations which can be made – omitting certain features from the build which aren't relevant and compile time optimisations for the particular chipset used in the RPi |
| [10:17:42] | stuartm: | I'm going to be changing one of my frontends this year and figure I'll give the RPi a go |
| [10:18:10] | stuarta: | todo_list++ |
| [10:18:28] | stuarta: | the more of us that try it out, the better it'll get |
| [10:20:44] | stuartm: | having fun with my PiZero, shame it lacks the speed/memory of it's larger brother – also a real shame they put the I/O on the side, if they'd put the usb one end and the hdmi the other, it would have been easy to turn it into a chromecast format device plugged directly into the TV |
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| [10:25:58] | jmcentee: | I believe raspbian is just the main debian recompiled. mythtv is on the deb-mutlimedia respoistry. I will look into it. |
| [10:29:29] | dekarl: | stuartm: well, IIUIC Rasbian rebuilts all packages from the source packages in the debian archive |
| [10:32:35] | jmcentee: | the RPI2 is arm v7 (RPI 1 was v6) armhf is for v7 arm. And there does seem to be automatic build of mythtv for the armhf on www.deb-multimedia.org |
| [10:32:57] | jmcentee: | So I guess it should just work. |
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| [10:34:55] | Merlin83b: | Speaking of low power boxes, Amazon's deal of the day: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B012VFLIOI If things worked with Intel HD graphics, that'd make a handy frontend. |
| [10:36:31] | jmcentee: | I prefer hardwired 100M to wireless. Still tempting though. |
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| [10:38:12] | stuarta: | Merlin83b: all my laptops have intel hd graphics |
| [10:39:50] | Merlin83b: | Oh, I thought the hardware acceleration didn't work? |
| [10:39:57] | Merlin83b: | I may be very out of date... |
| [10:40:00] | stuarta: | vaapi has worked for ages |
| [10:40:30] | Merlin83b: | I stand happily corrected. |
| [10:40:53] | stuarta: | where ages in this case is 2yrs+ |
| [10:41:00] | ShapeShifter499: | Merlin83b: I'd second that statement |
| [10:41:11] | jmcentee: | some people claim the deinterlacing is not as good as nvidia, others don't notice. |
| [10:42:03] | stuarta: | the hardware based interlacing hasn't been implemented |
| [10:42:45] | stuarta: | it's a damn shame that device comes with windows on it |
| [10:43:13] | Merlin83b: | Yeah, I'm just looking if you can put Linux on it, yet to find anyone who has which is rather incredible. |
| [10:43:37] | jmcentee: | other sticks people have managed. |
| [10:43:49] | stuarta: | https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Linux-Discussion . . . td-p/2217942 |
| [10:43:57] | stuarta: | that's the newer version |
| [10:44:26] | jmcentee: | I think the tricky bit is getting it UEFI booting to a 32-bit linux kernel. |
| [10:44:59] | Merlin83b: | Why would you want a 32 bit kernel? |
| [10:45:31] | stuarta: | it's an atom cpu |
| [10:46:15] | ** stuarta notes atom is 64bit ** | |
| [10:46:57] | Merlin83b: | Most atom... |
| [10:46:59] | jmcentee: | sorry not a 32-bit kernel but a 32bit efi boot. |
| [10:47:30] | Merlin83b: | Yeah, the ones in this do 64 bit, but the boot may be tricky. |
| [10:48:04] | jmcentee: | most linux distro do a 64bit efi boot that the compute stick only boots of tha 32-bit boot, like what windows does. |
| [10:48:21] | stuarta: | it's probably just the bios that can't do 64bit |
| [10:49:37] | jmcentee: | that's probably the reason. |
| [10:49:43] | stuarta: | yeah, reading that forum thread, shows it's a 32bit UEFI bios |
| [10:53:39] | dekarl: | does it do HDMI-CEC or come with an IR sensor? |
| [10:55:50] | Merlin83b: | I have a phase8 thing and a USB IR sensor. Sadly that's 2 USB ports so would also need a hub. |
| [10:55:52] | Merlin83b: | I am tempted, though. |
| [10:56:36] | jmcentee: | RPI 2 is cheaper. |
| [10:56:58] | jmcentee: | And lots more people will have the, |
| [10:57:11] | dekarl: | https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=en&a . . . ;prev=search says no HDMI-CEC |
| [11:04:33] | Merlin83b: | Not saying RPi2 wouldn't make a great platform, I'd love to run them as my frontends :) |
| [11:04:50] | Merlin83b: | Just happened to see that thing was available and thought people may be interested :) |
| [11:05:09] | stuarta: | some would like to run them as tunerless master backends |
| [11:08:58] | dekarl: | A RPI2 incl Case, PSU etc for much less then £50? |
| [11:10:13] | dekarl: | stuarta did you look at the Banana Pi? |
| [11:10:43] | ** stuarta is Pi free ** | |
| [11:11:01] | dekarl: | I collected the interesting frontend / backend relevant features of some arm systems at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/ARM_Systems |
| [11:11:46] | dekarl: | e.g. "has SATA and GBit/s networking on separate bus" vs. "has 100mbit/s nertworking and your USB disk on the same port" ;) |
| [11:13:29] | dekarl: | and "has broken HDMI-CEC" which is true for a surprising high cound of the boards (partly due to hardware bugs in the reference design) |
| [11:16:39] | jmcentee: | http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/880149 . . . oaAlWz8P8HAQ |
| [11:16:58] | jmcentee: | £35 for RPI2 and case. PSU for £4 |
| [11:17:11] | jmcentee: | but I have a few old mobile phone PSUs. |
| [11:17:43] | jmcentee: | sorry £36 |
| [11:20:56] | dekarl: | jmcentee: I was just trying to hint that you need some more parts (microCF card, HDMI cable) in addition to the raw board vs the offer of a complete kit :) |
| [11:21:23] | dekarl: | so at 50 bucks the stick isn't such a bad offer |
| [11:21:59] | dekarl: | an AndroidTV stick without HDMI-CEC appears a bit strange though |
| [11:22:50] | jmcentee: | True, it is a good offer. If a Liva was £80 I would have one by now, but I can not seems to spend £130 on one. |
| [11:28:40] | jmcentee: | it does not have a very good star rating, mostly due to upgrading to windwos 10 des not wor, but what is more of a worry is the complaints about wifi performance. |
| [11:29:57] | dekarl: | ohh, whats armbian.com (has Ubuntu LTS images with sshd running for many boards). That looks like a nice MBE board, has a disk carrier and ethernet ports for some frontends. http://linux-sunxi.org/Lamobo_R1 |
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| [11:38:34] | jmcentee: | armbian is the Allwinner version of raspbian. |
| [11:44:11] | jmcentee: | £60 to £70 for the banana Pi R1 (Lamobo_R1). 2 TB disk limit. |
| [11:48:43] | jmcentee: | http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/BPI-R . . . 4644178.html |
| [11:54:46] | dekarl: | still a lot cheaper then https://www.solid-run.com/marvell-armada-family/clearfog/ but that has multiple miniPCIE, mSATA ports... but only 1gig memory in the big version. starting at 170USD |
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| [13:04:28] | enyc: | jmcentee: cue long debate about deb-multimedia not being part of debian and all the rest of it =) |
| [13:06:56] | jmcentee: | I didn't say it was :P I hinted I had to go and check wether deb-multimedia would automatically have RPI binaries for mythtv. |
| [13:09:20] | jmcentee: | does anyone use a arm backend, I worry about performance of mysql, as I have 1571 programs, using 1.9 TB (1 month 22 days 18 hrs 7 mins) |
| [13:10:23] | jmcentee: | recordings going back to 2006. |
| [13:11:47] | ** jmcentee goes and googles. ** | |
| [13:12:56] | dekarl: | jmcentee: https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?p=4349#p4349 via https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/ARM_Systems (contributions to that page appreciated) |
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| [13:14:18] | dekarl: | mysql perfomance needs some rounds of mysqltuner.pl and preferable some work on the schema (ETA fixes/0.29 or later) |
| [13:16:56] | dekarl: | If you want to throw a backend on an ARM system just install ubuntu and add the mythbuntu PPA and see how it goes, the packages come with raspberry support already. |
| [13:18:19] | jmcentee: | more of a future plan idea. Jsut remembered I like to use ZFS, so would needed a 64-bit arm. |
| [13:24:04] | stuarta: | dekarl: there would come a point where you would need a non local db, because of memory constraints etc. so if we were to target the "lets try it out" crowd, we would get somewhere |
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| [13:35:14] | enyc: | i got the impresison form some tohers , backend on fastish small ARM boxes is fine, and has the advantage of generalyl not bother wiht power-down, just powerdown actual storage hard-disk ... |
| [13:45:36] | stuarta: | enyc: that should work |
| [14:19:02] | ** stuarta ponders getting hold of wintv-dualhd ** | |
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| [14:25:04] | ** jmcentee just got 2 August DVB-T210 ** | |
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| [14:28:27] | stuarta: | pvr4me: just sent you an email |
| [14:30:06] | enyc: | stuarta: still, i wonder about reliability of SD-cards over ''proper'' ssds |
| [14:30:14] | enyc: | stuarta: when backing sql dbs etc etc |
| [14:35:02] | stuarta: | damn wiki spam |
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| [14:39:10] | pvr4me: | stuarta: replied |
| [14:42:38] | stuarta: | stuartm: i was going to unpick the spam and put the old Talk:Main Page back |
| [14:42:49] | tgm4883: | stuarta: dekarl you can put a backend on a raspberry pi 2, but it's less than optimal |
| [14:42:53] | stuarta: | but it was horribly out of date |
| [14:42:59] | tgm4883: | I do think moving the db to another box would help it though |
| [15:10:58] | pvr4me: | stuarta: I had add the util.BuilderConfig too early. Moved it down and git clone seems to be running. |
| [15:11:17] | pvr4me: | stuarta: be back in a few minutes |
| [15:11:30] | stuarta: | pvr4me: nice, i'll get back to your email later, am whacking wiki spam atm |
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| [15:13:15] | pvr4me: | Hey, it finished and I got a log and everything. That’s better than a stick in the eye! |
| [15:13:21] | stuarta: | :) |
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| [16:09:54] | dekarl: | enyc: jmcentee: listen to that man, he's been there and done that ^- tgm4883 |
| [16:19:14] | jmcentee: | I do remember in the distant past running mythbackend on an underpowered box and not liking the response time on the remote frontend, mainly listing video collection. |
| [16:29:40] | dekarl: | sphery: fwiw there's a long history of having a "Antennengemeinschaft" in eastern germany to receive TV from western germany (obviously highly illegal but appreciated on both sides of the border). Nowadays it may be even easier with cheap optical networking, mumudvb streaming and regular TVs being able to tune IPTV. |
| [16:36:33] | sphery: | dekarl: Yeah, the post was actually a reference to the history of cable TV in the US, which tended to start up exactly as described with Community-Antenna Television (CATV) pools that grew and grew and became the evil cable companies of today. :) |
| [16:37:10] | dekarl: | sphery: ahh, I didn't know that part of TV history ;) |
| [16:37:30] | sphery: | what started as neighbor helping neighbor turned into evil giant anti-consumer regulated monopolies |
| [16:38:16] | dekarl: | Is it permissable in the US to forward FTA signals? Is there a special "forwarding tax/fee"? |
| [16:38:28] | sphery: | here, a lot of TV still use "CATV" as the identifier for the cable TV input--when it originally stood for community-antenna tv |
| [16:39:28] | sphery: | I'm pretty sure now there is. back in 1948, though... (I think this is exactly why Aereo was killed--they weren't paying anything to broadcasters but were rebroadcasting the signal.) |
| [16:39:57] | dekarl: | depending on the answer you could even just setup a free WiFi with all of FTA to tease neighbours into joining :) |
| [16:40:22] | sphery: | right, distribution is easier now--I think all that stands in the way is regulation and licensing |
| [16:41:55] | gary_buhrmaster: | Most OTA broadcasters are granted an "exclusivity" contract for the locality they serve by the networks they pay for content. |
| [16:42:47] | gary_buhrmaster: | Any (commercial) firm that provides the content to other regions owes the market owner money. Of course, it is hard to enforce in small individuals, but that is noise. |
| [16:44:45] | gary_buhrmaster: | And then there is the "retransmission consent" vs "must carry" rules. |
| [16:45:15] | sphery: | yeah, and when it rises above the noise (read Aereo), the lawyers will stop it |
| [16:45:24] | gary_buhrmaster: | Aereo got caught under "retransmission consent" requirements because they were treated as (essentially) a broadcaster/cable company. |
| [16:55:09] | dekarl: | ahh, Retransmission consent is basically raising the barrier of market entry. You have to go around and get permission for every channel individually. "only" 5.000 carriage disputes per year... looks like its working. Might start with the must-carry stations. |
| [16:56:49] | dekarl: | how much do must-carry stations pay to the carrier? That's a current question over here with cable co's wanting to bill sender and receiver for carriage... |
| [16:57:52] | stuarta: | sigh, 24hrs worth of wiki spam deleted and i'm still going 2hrs after i started |
| [16:58:55] | stuarta: | anyone else have permissions want to help out? |
| [17:01:41] | gary_buhrmaster: | Must carry means the cable company must carry the station, but do not get paid for carriage (the shopping channels purchase a small subchannel in larger markets and then use "must carry" on the local cable company). |
| [17:02:04] | dekarl: | doh, anything we can do against getting more new spam? e.g. a 1–3 days no-edit period after account creation? or maybe just https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Phpbb_Single_Sign-On ? |
| [17:02:18] | stuarta: | new account creation is currently blocked |
| [17:02:28] | stuarta: | and i'm blocking all the users who have spammed as i go |
| [17:04:10] | stuarta: | need to apply some patches, but that's for next week |
| [17:04:42] | gary_buhrmaster: | Does mediawiki support embargoing new edits from new users until approval? Until they achieve some level of "approval"? |
| [17:04:44] | stuarta: | need to also look into moving forward to a newer release train |
| [17:05:21] | gary_buhrmaster: | (of course that means someone has to be the editor/approver; one more task). |
| [17:05:59] | stuarta: | it tends to come in patches, so we just disable new users, cleanup, wait a bit, and open it up again |
| [17:06:36] | stuarta: | better would be a "delete everything this user has created" plugin |
| [17:07:05] | stuarta: | dekarl: wanna start on this lot? -> https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Elizzafinn |
| [17:08:09] | pvr4me: | stuarta: got the configure step to finish on my OS X buildbot! (Needs a couple tweaks, though) |
| [17:08:18] | stuarta: | \o/ |
| [17:13:18] | gary_buhrmaster: | Mediawiki: Extension:Moderation looks interesting. |
| [17:15:38] | gary_buhrmaster: | (of course, will require a bit more wiki sysop interaction; maybe need to ask for a few new volunteers (yea, I know, but maybe) to perform the reviews) |
| [17:16:09] | ** stuarta puts that on the todo_list++ ** | |
| [17:17:02] | gary_buhrmaster: | Is that the countable or uncountable infinity todo list? |
| [17:17:12] | stuarta: | the latter |
| [17:18:20] | jheizer: | Out of Memory exception thrown |
| [17:19:29] | gary_buhrmaster: | "We are gonna need a bigger memory"? – Chief Brody. |
| [17:20:01] | pvr4me (pvr4me!~craigtrel@d24-150-182-175.home.cgocable.net) has quit (Quit: pvr4me) | |
| [17:29:55] | stuarta: | sigh, more crap to cleanup still https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Monurobert |
| [17:31:10] | ** stuarta head off ** | |
| [17:31:11] | gary_buhrmaster: | And note that Extension:Nuke gives you the ability to "nuke" all the posts from a specific user (included with mediawiki 1.18... time to upgrade?) |
| [17:31:31] | stuarta: | gary_buhrmaster: we are on 1.23 |
| [17:32:17] | gary_buhrmaster: | Then you should have the ability under the Special:Nuke page (or something like that). |
| [17:37:29] | gary_buhrmaster: | [I see my possible confusion, it is included, but not enabled on a default install?] |
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| [18:41:53] | dekarl: | stuarta, was away. I don't have a revert/delete/similar option on these pages |
| [18:50:35] | stuarta: | i think i've cleaned up the last of them now |
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| [18:58:00] | ** stuarta heads off for a bit ** | |
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| [19:14:19] | stuartm: | dekarl: your wiki username is 'Dekarl'? |
| [19:14:48] | stuartm: | just double checking before I grant perms to someone who just happens to be using the same nick ;) |
| [19:15:12] | dekarl: | aye |
| [19:16:00] | stuartm: | ok, you are now an admin – should have done that a while ago |
| [19:16:14] | dekarl: | there is at lest 1–2 other persons on the internet with that username, so the verification makes sense |
| [19:16:38] | stuartm: | I'm getting more paranoid :) |
| [19:18:50] | gary_buhrmaster: | You are not too paranoid when people may be out to get you :-) |
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| [19:30:31] | dekarl: | stuarta, not sure why it worked before, but the SDK appears to be messed up https://jan.newmarch.name/RPi/Compile/#heading_toc_j_4 we need lots of externally injected paths to make it work |
| [19:31:12] | dekarl: | currently -I/usr/include/interface/vcos/pthreads is missing at the configure test |
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| [20:11:29] | pvr4me: | I’m working on an OS X buildbot. Is ccache worthwhile? If so, what cache setting? |
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| [20:19:42] | dekarl: | pvr4me: the ansible recipes give it 10GiB |
| [20:19:57] | pvr4me: | Thanks |
| [20:20:27] | dekarl: | 2 builds on the raspberry use 2,4GiB cache atm |
| [20:21:37] | pvr4me: | Fingers crossed, I might be one my way to the first successful build in this environment |
| [20:22:52] | pvr4me: | ccache -s says the cache size is already 746 MB |
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| [21:08:32] | MythBuild: | build #20 of master-ubuntu-lts-armhf is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . hf/builds/20 |
| [21:10:23] | jheizer: | nice dekarl |
| [21:10:44] | jheizer: | also I wonder what the difference in speed may or may not be if the ccache was local vs nfs |
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| [21:21:08] | pvr4me: | OK, I’m a believer in ccache — 2nd build took 15 minutes…1st took 68!! |
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| [21:36:26] | dekarl: | jheizer: ty, I wonder why the time has improved, maybe due to higher DRAM speed? |
| [21:36:53] | jheizer: | I'm about to try something |
| [21:37:05] | jheizer: | putting a cache space in front of the nfs mount |
| [21:37:12] | jheizer: | see how that effects things if any |
| [21:37:13] | dekarl: | iSCSI? (I saw your rpi slave is offline) |
| [21:37:20] | dekarl: | ahh |
| [21:37:34] | jheizer: | offline as switching sd cards |
| [21:37:51] | jheizer: | ancient 8gb to a 16gb that is newer |
| [21:38:37] | dekarl: | hmm, looking at the last values +/- 20% build time is noise |
| [21:38:37] | jheizer: | nothing super speed or anything. just a bit larger for a larger cache |
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| [22:28:53] | stuarta: | iscsi is much better than nfs |
| [22:30:19] | jheizer: | I may try that at some point to just to see |
| [22:30:29] | jheizer: | but I think the real killer is just the 100mb lan |
| [22:31:06] | jheizer: | happen to see a 16gb card sitting on my desk and debated jus running everything on card, but figured that wouldn't work once more branches were added |
| [22:31:28] | jheizer: | this was easy to try out other than I didn't have the cache service actually running for the first half of my test build |
| [22:31:32] | jheizer: | I missed that it failed to start |
| [22:34:13] | stuarta: | ah new mediawiki lts release in may, i can wait until upgrading |
| [22:37:15] | dekarl: | jheizer: a split between local sd card (e.g. the cache) and lan (the rest) may improve io performance |
| [22:37:38] | jheizer: | I also debated that |
| [22:37:46] | jheizer: | but got lazy |
| [22:38:32] | jheizer: | Figured this was easier to test first |
| [22:38:41] | jheizer: | not like any of this really matters anyway lol |
| [22:39:25] | jheizer: | I also debated cache on a usb drive assuming that wasn't terribly slow |
| [22:40:13] | dekarl: | btw, which openmax (broadcom or bellagio/mesa) are you building against? |
| [22:40:56] | jheizer: | hmmm |
| [22:41:35] | jheizer: | libomxil-bellagio |
| [22:41:50] | jheizer: | didn't realize there was multiple |
| [22:42:12] | jheizer: | jsut did install libomx tab completed to the above |
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| [23:51:10] | dekarl: | Google suggests to try libraspberrypi-dev instead on Raspbian, too. |
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