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Tuesday, July 21st, 2015, 00:07 UTC
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[06:29:51] dekarl: morning all, I've been wondering if we should use the service type (e.g. SD, HD, HD AVC) of channels to mark all programs in the guide HD / not HD. I've yet to see a channel that dynamically switches resolutions. It would make all the HDTV EIT fixups unneccesary and allow to use one XMLTV guide channel for both SD/HD simulcasts. (basically turning the video quality into an attribute of the service instead of the program) Any opinions?
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[07:59:01] stuarta: morning all
[07:59:46] stuarta: dekarl: there is some merit in that. i'd drop the idea to the -dev list, i'm sure there will be some differences in the US
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[08:04:26] stuarta: dekarl: i will say tho, there are times, at least here in the uk when the bbc hd channels have a banner up, saying go watch your sd channel
[08:04:44] stuarta: mainly when doing regional news, they can't be arsed upscaling it
[08:13:48] stuartm: actually it's because the HD feed, at least on satellite can't provide regional programming since the one signal covers the whole country, to do regional programming they would have to have HD channels for every region
[08:14:13] stuartm: not sure if they do the same for Freeview, and if they do what their excuse is for that
[08:14:48] stuarta: they do it on cable for sure
[08:15:33] stuarta: and anyway, that assertion that they don't do regionalized HD channels is crap, there are several different bbc on hd's for the regional variations
[08:15:52] ** stuarta apologizes for profanity caused by lack of sleep **
[08:22:18] stuartm: maybe the situation has changed then, last time I paid close attention there was only one or two versions of BBC One HD for example
[08:24:07] stuarta: ah, so i'm half right, it's semi regionalized. they do a scotland, wales & NI bbc one hd
[08:24:15] stuartm: whatever the reason for it, it's about time they moved on from SD and focused on HD before we have the ridiculous situation of 4K launching and having channels in three different resolutions
[08:24:23] stuarta:
[08:25:12] stuarta: i have to say channel 5 is annoying me, they have repeatedly declined to take up their HD slot on freeview / freesat, and so you can only get it as part of a paid package
[08:25:46] stuarta: which means i get the cricket in SD via mythtv, and HD via the virgin box :(
[08:28:30] stuarta: . . . ush-and.html
[08:31:55] stuarta: oh seriously, they added a new dvb-t hd mux and guess what channels are on it? bloody shopping channels
[08:32:03] stuarta: i hate shopping channels
[08:34:44] stuartm: as a public service broadcaster Channel 5 should be required to make their HD channels FTA
[08:35:18] stuarta: lemme see if i can find the link, basically their contract was badly worded, and they are only required to make the SD channel FTA
[08:37:30] stuarta: . . . come-to.html
[08:51:41] stuartm: :/
[09:08:40] stuarta: that royally pissed me off when i read it
[09:10:19] stuarta: i also read yesterday that the bbc was blocked from converting from a license fee to the us style system of pay to view
[09:15:14] stuartm: that's good (IMHO)
[09:16:09] stuarta: no actually it's bad, because mythtv will struggle to record anything without the relevant hardware doing the CAM
[09:16:22] stuarta: we kinda support it now, but not very well
[09:16:40] stuarta: so it'll be more prevalent with the networked devices that will take a smartcard
[09:16:49] stuarta: or equiv STB
[09:17:00] stuartm: although I don't always agree with how they spend the money – e.g. I'd rather see good drama and less 'light entertainment' aka gameshows, chat shows and soaps
[09:17:22] stuartm: stuarta: therefore good that they aren't being allows to switch to pay per view, no?
[09:17:43] stuartm: allowed
[09:18:14] stuarta: heh, just re-read your comment and get what you meant, yes it's good it was blocked
[09:20:09] stuarta: stuartm: have you noticed that on freeview there are now a number of channels that broadcast mheg with an embedded IPTV endpoint?
[09:20:21] stuarta: ie, they send out the iptv address in mheg
[09:20:36] stuarta: i'd love to spend some time adding support for those
[09:20:49] stuarta: ENOTIME
[09:39:56] ** stuarta schedules one to record to investigate later **
[10:01:40] stuarta: stuartm: ahah, it was posted to -users mailing list . . . wn_the_road/
[10:17:11] SteveGoodey: Trouble is we need a way of stopping the governent using the licence fee for petty cash.
[10:22:45] stuartm: stuarta: I was aware they were there, but I hadn't really looked hard at them
[10:23:05] stuarta: nor me
[10:23:40] stuarta: i think i noticed them because i was dvbsnoop'ing for something else and saw a link to a CDN
[10:24:18] stuartm: it's similar in concept to the mheg iplayer which we support, I think Lawrence might have patches, he's created several in that area already which we've merged
[10:24:58] stuartm: well, we used to support the iplayer until they locked it down, now they require a key which we don't have
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[12:07:59] dekarl-work: stuarta, got a hexdump of the application descriptors for the "internet tv" channels?
[12:09:01] stuarta: dekarl-work: i've now got a recording, so i should be able to pull those out
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[12:26:03] stuarta: dekarl-work: all i have so far is that the recording contains 1 stream "Stream #0:0[0x1929]: Data: dsmcc_b"
[12:26:27] stuarta: i'll need to try playing it back at home later this week and see what happens
[12:26:54] dekarl-work: stuarta, that is interesting, over here there is also a video stream instuctring you that you need HBBTV/RedButton to watch
[12:27:29] stuarta: the dsmcc stream should create the red button and static page saying that
[12:27:30] dekarl-work: basically I'm interested in seeing if the raw TS via HTTP url is available to the channel scanner :)
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[12:27:55] stuarta: oh that part is easy, it's just a normal channel to the channel scanner
[12:28:21] dekarl-work: no, I mean the other (internet) part of the channel :)
[12:28:56] dekarl-work: has our DVB scanner access to all data that is needed to configured the channel in the IPTV recorder?
[12:29:00] stuarta: i'm guessing they broadcast the link while it's on, and then broadcast a new one for the next show
[12:29:20] stuarta: dekarl-work: i think it's going to need to dynamically spawn to a given endpoint
[12:29:57] dekarl-work: I'm curious to see actual specimen, because over here its just static http links to mpeg2ts streams
[12:29:59] stuarta: ie, the interactive tv code will have to analyze the stream on the fly, to find the endpoint, and then kickoff an iptv based recording
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[14:47:56] gigem: dekarl-work: For the Schedules Direct data here in the States, program.hdtv is only set if the source material *and* the broadcast format are both HD. IOW, programs that are really SD and upscaled to be broadcast on an HD channel are not marked as HD.
[14:49:22] dekarl-work: gigem, is that data any good? Thinking of programs that have been played from worn out D1 tapes in the past and have now been properly digitized/cleaned/deinterlaced/upscaled.
[14:50:07] dekarl-work: In Austria the public broadcaster explicitely signals everything on their HD simulcast as HD because they think their HD conversions are very good
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[14:53:13] dekarl-work: oh, just searched for the list of native hd series... its gone with a remark that many german (the language) stations are not signalling SD/HD anymore
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[14:54:28] dekarl-work: gigem, I set up the nonametv importers similar to SchedulesDirect then. Only signalling HDTV when the press site marks a program as HD and its the HD simulcast channel
[14:54:34] gigem: dekarl-work: I haven't checked exhaustively, but it appears to be accurate.
[14:56:17] dekarl-work: otoh SD has its own code path anyway, so changing the EIT/XMLTV code paths shouldn't be an issue
[14:59:24] dekarl-work: stuarta, just wanted to look at smolt numbers for the guide source (see if there are a lot of users using SD via XMLTV) but its "temporarily unavaibale". Can you kick it?
[15:05:10] stuarta: hmm
[15:05:31] stuarta: that'll explain all the 500 errors in the logs
[15:08:22] stuarta: damn, looks like an update has broken it
[15:08:38] stuarta: does that mean i have to rebuild it and port it now? hmmm
[15:15:00] jams: stuarta..looks like percona was updated on alcor somewhat recently?
[15:15:11] jams: to 5.6
[15:15:49] stuarta: i find it odd that the missing mysql client lib is .18 when we have .12 .14 .15 & .16
[15:15:55] jams: yeah that
[15:16:03] jheizer: US user, Regarding HD channels marking everything as HD, I don't think it would be a problem IMO. I think we've pretty much hit critical mass. If the HD channel doesn't have the HD feed then is probably doesn't exist so there is no better alternative. Ex local news programs that are poor, old tv shows, etc.
[15:16:17] stuarta: it's in the self compiled python that smoon is using
[15:16:18] jams: stuarta in 5.6 they changed the name to libperconaserverclient
[15:16:57] jams: .12 .14 .15 is from the shared-compat-libs pkg, but I don't think they have one for .18
[15:17:15] jams: the workaround to setup the symlink manually to
[15:17:37] stuarta: ah nice, cheers for that
[15:17:44] jams: care if I do that?
[15:17:49] stuarta: feel free
[15:17:53] jams: cool
[15:18:09] jams: I was just looking at it and noticed that you were talkinga bout it :)
[15:18:11] stuarta: fyi, porting and packaging smoon to mizar is still (sadly) on the todo list
[15:18:27] jams: whats mizar?
[15:18:31] stuarta: the new alcor
[15:18:37] jams: i see
[15:18:46] stuarta: www, wiki, forum, lists all already live there
[15:18:51] jams: must have missed those converstations
[15:19:01] stuarta: smolt web frontend does too, but the backend is still on alcor
[15:19:10] stuarta: jams: alcor has been dying for ~1yr
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[15:19:15] stuarta: at least
[15:19:29] jams: i remember the talk about but didn't know action was being taken
[15:19:55] jams: I only know what I see here..and frankly I haven't paid that much attention here due to work
[15:19:57] stuarta: we eventually got a VM from osuosl that's bigger than their standard, but smaller than alcor
[15:20:17] stuarta: so it's a WIP to migrate and package everything
[15:20:35] stuarta: i hate unpackaged software, so i've been packaging stuff as I go along
[15:21:29] stuarta: it's, erm, a painful process
[15:21:46] stuarta: jams: was it you that was originally doing work upstream with smolt?
[15:22:03] jams: yes
[15:22:15] stuarta: kk, i will ping you if I have questions
[15:22:15] jams: it's actually a dead project now
[15:22:23] stuarta: just like it's replacement
[15:22:28] jams: fedora killed it off and the replacment didn't do squat
[15:22:31] jams: yeah
[15:22:54] stuarta: so i'm merging our local changes into the upstream and then packaging that
[15:23:02] stuarta: and then deploying
[15:23:40] stuarta: do you know what the performance issues they talked about were?
[15:24:14] jams: yes they couldn't keep the mysql servers running
[15:25:03] jams: i dont' know if it was lack of hardware or the query code isnt' the best
[15:25:14] jams: but thats really what it came down to, mysql couldn't handle the load
[15:25:22] stuarta: hmm, i don't think that will affect us
[15:25:29] jams: i don't think it will either
[15:25:53] stuarta: but the response is typical fedora, this doesn't appear to be working, so lets kill it and rewrite from scratch, rather than analyzing and fixing
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[15:26:23] jams: i didn't mind killing it off, just didn't like how they did it.
[15:26:44] jams: 1) no replacment. 2) they just shut it off without really telling people
[15:27:42] stuarta: made the link yet?
[15:27:47] ** stuarta is getting impatient **
[15:28:07] jams: working on it
[15:29:12] jams: starting smolt
[15:29:29] jams: running
[15:30:02] stuarta: ta
[15:30:44] stuarta: hmm, so i broke on the 13th, probably should have noticed that earlier...
[15:30:48] stuarta: *it
[15:31:26] jams: it did stop on the 13th
[15:31:55] jams: I just happened to check on it today
[15:32:42] stuarta: clearly we all did
[15:34:32] dekarl-work: thanks!
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[15:36:12] dekarl-work: 6x tv_grab_na_dd vs. 1815 internal SD grabber. But what's the difference between schedulesdirect1 and schedulesdirect2? ;)
[15:38:43] dekarl-work: Hmm, I wonder what the 301 /bin/true sources are (likely externally sourced xmltv or some other way of filling the database)
[15:40:17] ** stuarta head off **
[15:40:44] gigem: stuarta: Do you need any help putting it back on? :)
[15:41:56] jams: dekarl, isn't that the no-grabber option?
[15:42:08] jams: like you said..external script
[15:42:56] stuartm: or just users who have setup a mythbackend for the first time and haven't setup a guide source yet
[15:43:43] dekarl-work: looks like it might be some local modification, its not here at least . . . rce.cpp#L557
[15:43:58] dekarl-work: ^-wrt schedulesdirect2
[15:44:21] dekarl-work: and yes, /bin/true is "No Grabber"
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