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Monday, February 23rd, 2015, 14:12 UTC
[14:12:32] ** stuarta adds crontab to restart it at boot **
[14:15:21] pvr4me: Thanks! I guess I'll just have to wait and see what massive surprises the devs have conjured in the last 1.5 days!!  ;)
[14:22:50] stuarta: read the commits list :-p
[14:25:31] stuartm: not a lot has been done/discussed in public this weekend
[14:26:08] pvr4me: MythTV for Apple Watch?  ;)
[14:26:12] pvr4me:
[14:26:24] stuartm: I've been working on a framework for user login/session management and permissions, but due to being ill it's not been very structured work
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[14:29:05] stuartm: frankly some of it was done in a sleep deprived delirium, not confident in the decisions made or that it's not riddled with bugs :)
[14:30:08] pvr4me: "sleep deprived delirium" describes a lot of my waking hours
[14:32:42] Seeker`: stuartm: that might end up with a ballmer peak type effect though
[14:32:57] Seeker`: it might switch off just enough thought to make things better
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[15:28:32] stuarta: hmmm, we seem to be missing 29500 as a symbol rate
[15:28:38] stuarta: shouldn't be too hard to fix
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[16:05:47] stuartm: stuarta: I thought I fixed that not too long ago?
[16:06:36] stuarta: didn't seem to be there
[16:07:28] stuarta: i thought i'd fixed it ages ago, but then realized the patch was sitting in my tree
[16:09:36] stuartm: absolutely positive that I made the change
[16:11:49] ** stuarta shrugs **
[16:11:56] stuarta: dunno, but it's there now
[16:15:11] stuartm: looks like I added 23000 back in April last year (that freaks me a bit, what happened to the past year??)
[16:15:32] stuarta: oh hang on, you are talking about the symbol rate?
[16:15:37] stuartm: no sign of 29500 though, which is strange
[16:15:43] stuarta: 29900 is there
[16:17:02] stuartm: I specifically remember adding something for DVB-T2 support too, within the last 3–4 months, though that might have been a modulation value instead
[16:18:49] stuarta: yeah, i remember that, which is why i thought it was strange that 29500 wasn't there
[16:20:19] stuartm: well the modulation fix was 864d985
[16:20:44] stuartm: and addition of 23000 was
[16:21:02] stuartm: oops,
[16:22:01] stuartm: stuarta: given we were missing at least two symbol rates in 0.27 it might be worth checking for others,
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[16:25:12] stuartm: stuarta: don't forget to actually push that commit :)
[16:25:45] stuarta: :)
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[16:31:08] stuarta: stuartm: what unit is Msys/s ??
[16:31:20] stuarta: i'm reading Mega Symbols per sec
[16:33:33] stuartm: mega makes sense given it represents 1 million, only ever seen it listed as Msys/s in specs
[16:34:08] stuarta: mainly wondering where you found that abbreviation
[16:34:13] ** stuarta googles some **
[16:34:49] stuartm: "Msys/s"
[16:35:12] stuartm: comes up a lot for tuning data
[16:36:30] stuartm: it's likely used in one of the many ETSI documents I have, just not sure which one
[16:36:49] dekarl-work: IIRC that's the standard unit for mpeg transponder capacity
[16:38:01] stuartm: aye
[16:38:08] dekarl-work: others call it "baud"
[16:38:54] dekarl-work: once you add bits/symbol of your encoding and subtract the FEC overhead you are approaching the capacity in bits/s
[16:40:04] dekarl-work: oh, found a picture of symbols
[16:40:40] stuartm: references: . . . sdm2020d.pdf etc
[16:46:17] stuartm: looks like ETSI use baud instead
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[16:57:41] dym: heyo
[16:57:45] dym: dekarl-work: around bud?
[16:58:21] dekarl-work: dym, not really
[16:59:14] dym: :)
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[16:59:38] dym: no probs
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[18:20:58] Roklobsta: stuarta: #12221 fixed. nice one. I'll test it.
[18:20:58] ** MythLogBot **
[18:58:48] stuarta: Roklobsta: yeah, i've had the fix for that ready for ages, just forgotten about it
[18:58:52] dekarl1 is now known as dekarl
[18:59:13] ** stuarta wanders off again **
[19:02:41] dekarl: JohnBergqvist that 4k screenshot from Astra shows quite some artifacts, considering that its supposed to highlight the greatness of 4k and hevc... just look at the leaves
[19:06:56] stuartm: it's the feathers for me, at that range I'd expect to be able to see the fine feather detail where it a photograph of the same resolution, it's been lost in compression
[19:07:04] stuartm: s/where/were/
[19:08:15] stuartm: honestly, it's like they've cranked up the saturation to 'wow' people but a lot of the definition is missing
[19:14:13] dekarl: that might actually make sense to sell 4k tv sets
[19:16:59] stuartm: it reminds me of the video loops they used in showrooms when HD tvs first appeared, they looked great but it was all high contrast, very well lit stuff with the saturation pushed to the limits – that would look good at any resolution – acrobatic aircraft against a bright blue sky, or underwater shots of tropical fish
[19:17:41] stuartm: there must be something about the psychology of the colour blue, because it featured a lot in those promos
[19:20:22] dekarl: maybe just a result of A/B testing.. "shops that show blue clips sell more, who knows why" ;)
[19:31:37] Roklobsta: stuarta: as per my comment in 12221... can you please "... increase the hard upper limit to 10000ms. "
[19:32:43] Roklobsta: many people don't notice those artefacts.
[19:33:21] Roklobsta: i do. i hate it. broadcast HDTV here can be bad for such motion blocking especually on sports. Freezing an image where there is a lot of motion looks like a complete mess.
[19:33:30] Roklobsta: HDTV my arse.
[19:36:52] dekarl: dblain: is the documentation from (and others) available in the code somewhere? I'm wondering if we can add wsdl:documentation and render it, so our WSDL can be used as "service documentation master"
[19:38:49] stuartm: dekarl: http://{backendip}:6544/Myth/wdl
[19:38:53] stuartm: dekarl: http://{backendip}:6544/Myth/wsdl
[19:38:59] stuartm: generated automatically
[19:39:21] stuartm: although there's very little 'documentation' there
[19:40:04] dekarl: stuartm, I know these urls, but I had a hard time finding a wsdl:documentation element with text
[19:40:59] stuartm: right, because it's generated on the fly from the actual class declarations
[19:41:00] dekarl: PS: I really like that wsdl with(out) raw. I'd love to show it around to collegues how to properly document interfaces, but I'm wondering where the prose is.
[19:42:00] stuartm: it's a shame wsdl doesn't allow for comments, i.e. explanatory documentation
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[19:42:07] dekarl: huh?
[19:42:20] dekarl:
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[19:42:41] dekarl: you can add descriptive text to about everything in wsdl.
[19:42:41] jheizer: You can do some. Actually what I am doing for work today myself.
[19:42:45] dekarl: that's what I'm looking for :D
[19:43:24] stuartm: dekarl: huh, that's what I get for using wikipedia as my source of info on the format :)
[19:43:24] dekarl: searching for "wsdl documentation best practice" led me to . . . ervices.aspx
[19:43:45] dym: dekarl: did you get a chance to have a peek at my logs?
[19:44:04] dekarl: dym, yes. but nothing stood out
[19:44:13] dym: mhhh
[19:44:17] jheizer: Not sure how widely supported it is. Even to do it in Visual Studio I have to use 3rd party items to both generate and consume the comments
[19:44:29] stuartm: dekarl: libs/libmythupnp/wsdl.cpp is where the magic happens
[19:44:47] dym: dekarl: do you think it still could be a connection problem, if a reboot of the mythtv backend machine made things work normal again and the distortion go away?
[19:44:48] dekarl: jheizer, I hear it was working before but was removed.
[19:44:55] dym: or rather a machine problem on the backend machine
[19:45:08] dblain: dekarl: the issue I had with adding documenation was how to have access to it at runtime. Qt's Introspection is very limited in that regard.
[19:45:18] dekarl: dym, I think its some kind of race condition that is triggered by "something" with the reboot / restart resetting the state
[19:45:38] dym: dekarl: what would you need to analyze this?
[19:45:41] stuartm: if we're going to insert proper descriptive documentation I guess we need to figure out how to do it, might be done with special class properties, the same way we handle endpoint versioning
[19:45:42] jheizer: dekarl, interesting. This i the first time I've had to document more than one or two services. Going to be like 200 on this one by the time I'm done for a 3rd party to consume.
[19:46:34] dekarl: jheizer: from . . . our-wcf.html "Back in the good ol’ days of ASMX web service development, adding documentation to the WSDL of your service was as simple as providing the desired info in the Description property of the WebMethod attribute:"
[19:48:32] dym: dekarl: also, can you recommend a "must have" hardware state? CPU/Mem/Drive wise?
[19:48:49] jheizer: dekarl, neat. I'm using wcfextras+ to capture xml comments and convert into a help site with sandcastle that is reading from a proxyies generated on a empty project comsuming the web service. Kind of a pain but the best solution I came up with. The other party just wanted an excel sheet per service end point. PITA to maintain that.
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[19:51:17] dekarl: jheizer: a the joys of universalgeneric excel interfaces :) I have to generate (logging) code from excel lists
[19:51:44] jheizer: Fun fun
[19:52:01] dekarl: dym: I'm not so good at analyzing these races :/
[19:52:51] dekarl: dym: your database must be fast enough to have the scheduler run in a sensible amount of time
[19:53:13] stuartm: dekarl: I'm still not seeing the grammer in the spec that fits with the freeform text documentation I described i.e. "This endpoint returns a list of channels, default sorting is by channel number" (obviously the documentation would be better than that)
[19:53:59] stuartm: dekarl: umm, nevermind, looked at the other link you posted
[19:54:01] dekarl: stuartm: 2.1.4 Documentation: WSDL uses the optional wsdl: document element as a container for human readable documentation. The content of the element is arbitrary text and elements ("mixed" in XSD). The documentation element is allowed inside any WSDL language element.
[19:54:29] stuartm: dekarl: I read that, I just didn't grok it
[19:54:40] jheizer: yea should see wsdl:documentation and xs:documentation
[19:54:50] stuartm: but then w3 documentation has always given me a headache
[19:55:43] dekarl: and as always, its a wall of text for everything, but the part on how to document is three short sentences at the end of the chapter
[19:56:29] stuartm: always lacking clear concise examples that say more than a thousand words ever could
[19:57:20] stuartm: ok, we're currently using <documentation> to include information on GET vs POST methods
[19:58:43] stuartm: so it ought to be trivially easy to include the documentation in the code and extract it to the wsdl, but the real trick would be for the one set of documentation to be parsed by doxygen and used in the wsdl
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[19:58:55] ** dblain remembers looking through MOC's source hoping to find generic tags or hooks to extend the metadata it stores, but was disappointed. **
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[20:00:22] dblain: stuartm: I couldn't find an easy way to have a single documentation source. The Q_CLASSINFO has been the only way, but figured I was already abusing it.
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[20:01:05] stuartm: did you look at QT5 to see whether there's anything new there we could use?
[20:01:16] dblain: no I haven't.
[20:02:03] dym: dekarl: so i3, 8GB RAM, 7200rpm drive?
[20:02:36] stuartm: the QT documentation for Q_CLASSINFO says to use it for whatever you want, it may not be pretty but it's not really being abused :)
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[20:03:13] dblain: :)
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[20:05:00] stuartm: "The QMetaClassInfo class provides additional information about a class. ... This mechanism is free for you to use in your Qt applications. Qt doesn't use it for any of its classes."
[20:08:15] dekarl: dym,. with HDHR and 8gb you can use ZFS/BSD and other nice things. wagn errp uses such a setup IIRC
[20:08:57] dym: yeah, im planning to grab a dedicated machine for this. do you think an i3 would suffice? INTEL Core i3–4130 3400MHz 3MB Cache 2Core
[20:10:53] dym: also – is an SSD needed?
[20:10:57] dym: or recommended?
[20:12:54] stuartm: not needed, I'd say save your money
[20:13:55] stuartm: even a 7200rpm drive is overkill, 5400rpm is enough and quieter
[20:17:05] stuarta: #12221
[20:17:05] ** MythLogBot **
[20:17:15] Roklobsta: dym: i use a WD black 2.5" drive from a laptop for the myth install and 3 2TB WD greens in RAID5 for recordings
[20:17:29] Roklobsta: dym: all using a 6yo Athlon X2 cpu
[20:18:39] Roklobsta: dym: and used the idle3 utility to turn off the insane start/stops that WD have on by default.
[20:18:53] dym: oh
[20:18:58] dym: athlon X2
[20:19:17] dym: so a Celeron G1610 could also do the trick?
[20:19:21] Roklobsta: athlon x2 barely goes out of lowest power mode.
[20:19:24] stuarta: i seriously need a bigger monitor
[20:19:42] Roklobsta: yes, if you have an nvidia card for display a modern celeron is fine.
[20:20:04] dym: Display? This is backend only
[20:20:12] dym: Could i also run this headless?
[20:20:17] dym: (im not right now)
[20:20:35] dym: i use KODI as frotend software on Amazon's FireTV
[20:21:19] dym: im using a HD Homerun as network tuner
[20:24:27] Roklobsta: celeron is fine then
[20:25:28] stuartm: dblain: do you think we could use the http:binding element to convey the POST/GET information (as indicated in the wsdl spec) instead of or in addition to it being in the documentation element?
[20:28:20] stuartm: it means wrapping each 'operation' in it's own <binding> or grouping the GET/POST methods together, but that's fine if I'm reading the spec correctly – I've only been looking at it for ten minutes so I could be wrong
[20:30:31] dblain: stuartm: Its been too long since I've read the WSDL spec. I'm sure there is a better way thank I did it. I do remember having issues with various tools not likeing certain syntax. (of course I didn't take notes... that would have been too useful! :( )
[20:37:11] dym: Does anybody know if it's possible to strip mythbuntu from it's gui components
[20:48:47] Roklobsta: dym: maybe install ubuntu server then add all the mythtv packages
[20:52:22] dym: this isnt actually an answer to my question though, is it? :)
[20:52:59] dekarl: dym, I run a mythbuntu backend without a monitor. though i'm not sure what "stripping of gui components" means
[20:53:53] dym: well, the machine boots into a gui
[20:54:01] dym: which is unnecessary
[20:54:19] dym: although im not sure if that would solve my probkem
[20:54:21] jheizer: Mythbuntu is just packages on top of ubuntu. So it is.
[20:54:21] dym: problem
[20:54:24] Roklobsta: just change the runlevel so gui doesn't boot
[20:54:59] dekarl: I'm not sure if it is worth the effort
[20:55:25] dekarl: so the question is, what is the problem with the gui?
[20:59:07] dym: i thought it may cause some unneeded overhead on the VM
[20:59:26] dym: well, as of know we've been watching TV for several hours without any lags/drops
[20:59:29] Roklobsta: VM?
[21:00:05] dym: im currently running mythbuntu as virtual machine (KVM/Qemu)
[21:01:50] dekarl: I'm pretty sure that your backend issue is not related to the gui components
[21:03:05] dym: and im pretty certain it doesnt have anything to do with the lack on bandwidth
[21:03:14] dym: s/on/of/
[21:11:34] ** dekarl nods **
[21:18:18] dym: Gosh, those proper 19" shortscale server all cost a fortune!
[21:18:31] dym: im not gonna spend 700€ just for a mythtv server :D
[21:19:18] dym: considering one of the more modern mac minis
[21:19:23] dym: with a linux OS
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[22:01:41] BigKuma: Does anyone know what ARBSEEK function do , *-key
[22:02:26] BigKuma: tv_play.cpp:4373 looks like nothing happens
[22:05:03] stuartm: seeks by an arbitrary number entered immediately after pressing the ARBSEEK button
[22:05:36] stuartm: it's functionality seems to be largely superceeded by pressing the left/right buttons after enter a number instead
[22:06:00] stuartm: of course I might be mis-remembering how it behaves and there are differences
[22:30:58] Roklobsta: dym: get a HP Proliant Microserver N54L or Microserver G8.
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