| Tuesday, February 17th, 2015, 00:00 UTC | ||
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| [00:04:38] | dekarl: | stuartm, what data are you looking for? I have no problem with filling a list and seeing what happens. e.g. http://xmltv.spaetfruehstuecken.org/xmltv/datalist2.xml – basically you look for platform with tuning parameters for one transport, preferably one of the full si transports? |
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| [00:07:05] | stuartm: | dekarl: yes, we might expand it to more later, but initially a network name or identifier and tuning data for a starting transport |
| [00:07:32] | dekarl: | lets add relevant countries/languages. then we can give the channel scan a head start |
| [00:07:55] | stuartm: | I'm thinking one network per file rather than a big long list, that makes it simple for people to create their own and drop them into the share directory |
| [00:08:33] | dekarl: | what is a network? Is that one platform? (e.g. Freeview) |
| [00:09:06] | stuartm: | e.g. networks/Freesat.xml networks/Astra 1Z.xml |
| [00:09:10] | dekarl: | network might map to Freeview region, thats a bit detailed |
| [00:09:22] | stuartm: | I'm thinking one platform where applicable |
| [00:09:58] | stuartm: | that way we might in future ignore all channels which appear on the same satellite (for example) but which don't form part of the platform |
| [00:10:19] | dekarl: | For sat a platform will likely be one sat constellation in many parts of the world. But that should be ok, too |
| [00:10:28] | stuartm: | it's a rough concept, but if you look at Kaffeine it works for them |
| [00:11:00] | dekarl: | isn't that some open source program? /me wanders of to look if their data is open too |
| [00:11:11] | stuartm: | dekarl: yes it is |
| [00:11:34] | stuartm: | it's kde based (hence the k in caffeine) |
| [00:12:02] | stuartm: | it's got perhaps the best channel scanner UI that I've seen |
| [00:12:10] | dekarl: | oh my, everywhere the same... |
| [00:12:13] | dekarl: | its up for grabs //www.mail-archive.com/kde-devel@kde.org/msg04046.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.mail-archive.com/kde-devel@kde.org/msg04046.html |
| [00:12:20] | stuartm: | well work a look if you've never seen it before |
| [00:13:10] | stuartm: | dekarl: yeah, well let's do what we can to avoid the same thing happening here :) |
| [00:21:49] | dekarl: | ahh, gets its data from here http://linuxtv.org/hg/dvb-apps/file/3d43b2802 . . . s-conf/dvb-s |
| [00:22:20] | dekarl: | but.. "Remove installation of initial scan files from Makefile" |
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| [00:23:06] | dekarl: | I'm hitting sack, will continue the scavenger hunt some other night |
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| [00:53:05] | stuartm: | dekarl: the app itself pulls them in over http |
| [00:53:39] | stuartm: | fresher that way |
| [00:53:55] | stuartm: | s/app/application/ |
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| [10:55:26] | stuartm: | dblain: can you remember why we reduced parameters to lower case? |
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| [11:19:24] | stuartm: | I've a vague recollection that it was just easier than fixing all the inconsistent capitalisation of stuff like Id/ID and breaking backwards compatibility with it |
| [11:22:35] | stuartm: | the lower-casing of all parameters and not just those used by the services API is causing me a small problem, going to try reverting only that bit and see what breaks |
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| [18:29:20] | stuartm: | stuarta: added a page where you can set the cert/key paths without messing directly with the database |
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| [20:53:48] | gigem: | What are the magic packages and incantations needed to build with Qt5 on Debian? I'm getting "Project ERROR: Unknown module(s) in QT: script". |
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| [21:27:20] | clever: | gigem: sounds like you need the qt-script package |
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| [21:44:54] | gigem: | clever: Yes, that was it. Thanks. |
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| [22:01:08] | stuartm: | dekarl: so I came up with this, no real planning went into it, just made it up as I went along – http://paste.fedoraproject.org/186762/14242104/ |
| [22:01:23] | stuartm: | any comments? Improvements I might make before committing? |
| [22:01:59] | stuartm: | do we need more tuning data? I went with the bare minimum but that assumes the card/driver will auto-detect the rest |
| [22:05:44] | dekarl: | lets see, IIRC 2 is the original_network_id of Astra on 28.2°E |
| [22:05:54] | dekarl: | but do we need that for the channel scan? |
| [22:06:20] | dekarl: | s/network/platform/ or similar |
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| [22:08:08] | dekarl: | is that a satelite only thing? then s/transport/transponder/ |
| [22:09:25] | dekarl: | and I'd add the full set of tuning parameters. (IIRC our channel scanner will not try the opens itself when the dvb drivers doesn't support autodetection) |
| [22:09:33] | stuartm: | dekarl: we don't need it, but we might find a use for it |
| [22:10:07] | dekarl: | but thinking about it, can we add DVB-s(2) frequency tables similar to the DVB-C/T tables that we already have? |
| [22:10:31] | stuartm: | dekarl: it may prove useful for some terrestrial/cable setups, although those generally stick to a smaller frequency range than satellite |
| [22:11:59] | stuartm: | dekarl: we could, but in 13 years no-one has |
| [22:12:38] | stuartm: | and because they are hardcoded it's harder to update/patch changes |
| [22:12:55] | dekarl: | I remember adding some for DVB-C earlier this decade... https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/ . . . les.cpp#L507 |
| [22:13:30] | stuartm: | no-one has touched our frequency tables for DVB-T even though the ranges have changed quite a bit since the switchover to digital – here in the UK entire chunks of frequency were sold off to mobile operators |
| [22:14:08] | stuartm: | dekarl: but not for DVB-S was my point |
| [22:14:58] | stuartm: | I'd prefer something that is easier to maintain, and that we can update over http via services.mythtv.org |
| [22:15:05] | dekarl: | If I encode your example into the map, will the selection mythically appear in the channel scanner? |
| [22:16:03] | dekarl: | having just a data file on some server to update sounds good. works for the uk xmltv fixups very well |
| [22:16:34] | stuartm: | another advantage of the per-platform/network config is that we can extend it to include other things, like toggling on certain rules for scanning/filtering for best results on a given platform |
| [22:18:00] | stuartm: | dekarl: I don't think we even look at the frequency tables for DVB-S, partly because they are set by region and satellites don't respect the traditional regions |
| [22:18:17] | dekarl: | ahh, where's my link to the guide that explains what to put into an element and what to put into an attribute of the parent :/ |
| [22:18:50] | stuartm: | dekarl: heh, yeah, I ignored attributes because I couldn't remember the rules either |
| [22:19:45] | stuartm: | it's a minor thing really, it's more important to get something done than for it to be perfect |
| [22:20:18] | stuartm: | but if there are glaring errors ... |
| [22:20:37] | dekarl: | I agree. But fixing the terminology would be good |
| [22:20:50] | dekarl: | network_id -> original_network_id |
| [22:21:15] | dekarl: | network -> e.g. platform or so (anything that doesn't have a "dvb name" with a different meaning) |
| [22:21:40] | dekarl: | platform is taken from the channels api at atlas |
| [22:22:15] | stuartm: | originalNetworkId or underscored version? |
| [22:24:15] | stuartm: | I'm thinking one file per 'platform', that makes it easier to patch, no conflicts and fewer bit-rotting patches |
| [22:24:23] | dekarl: | thinking about it, leave it out. (I'm not sure, I'm tempted to use it "as in the spec" with underscores) |
| [22:24:48] | dekarl: | "german TV on 19.2°" has multiple ONID |
| [22:27:07] | stuartm: | k |
| [22:28:19] | dekarl: | How do "Freesat", "Freesat HD" map to the config? |
| [22:30:30] | dekarl: | fwiw, the ONIDs on 19.2 are for different platforms (Sky on Astra 19.2 and EveryoneElse on Astra 19.2. I remembered the ARD group's and ZDF's playout center using their own ONID, but it looks like they use them on cable contributions only) |
| [22:30:38] | stuartm: | fwiw, the logic behind 'type' and 'country' were so we could only show 'platforms' which are relevant given the users location and hardware, at least as a default – the full list would be available for power users who have 10ft dishes to receive broadcasts from outside the normal footprint |
| [22:31:18] | dekarl: | I need to buy a house, so I can setup a big 80cm dish and watch BBC ;) |
| [22:31:35] | stuartm: | dekarl: Freesat/Freesat HD are the same thing, Freesat launched as an HD platform from the beginning |
| [22:32:58] | dekarl: | ok. What's a "package" on lyngsat? |
| [22:33:20] | dekarl: | I see Sky UK, and Sky DE, also HD+ (DE) but not Freesat |
| [22:34:31] | dekarl: | looks like one package is basically what you get with one CI card. aka FTA+one platform |
| [22:35:42] | stuartm: | seems like it |
| [22:36:26] | stuartm: | Sky includes pretty much all of the Freesat channels, although different numbering systems etc |
| [22:37:17] | dekarl: | hmm, so it makes sense to consider "everything FTA on one constelletion" as a package in addition to "what you get on top with *one* CI card"? |
| [22:37:38] | stuartm: | for a while some channels refused to let Sky list them because it was considered damaging to the freesat platform which was setup to provide competition to Sky's satellite dominance |
| [22:38:15] | dekarl: | what is a user who points a dish at 28.2° expecting to get as result from the channel scan? |
| [22:39:57] | dekarl: | aw well, lets just commit your example with a directory of xml files with one platfrom each (without the ONID) and move on |
| [22:39:58] | stuartm: | a MythTV user? Just FTA channels, since you can't get a Sky CAM |
| [22:40:52] | dekarl: | are they expecting Freesat only, or all FTA channels? |
| [22:41:07] | stuartm: | technically there are FTA channels which aren't part of the Freesat platform, but they are all junk – promo channels for Sky, the dregs of the shopping channels etc |
| [22:42:38] | stuartm: | dekarl: 99% will only want Freesat, because as I noted, the rest is crap – half of the non-freesat channels are just reserving space for future sky paid slots |
| [22:42:50] | dekarl: | e.g. do they expect DWTV? |
| [22:44:39] | stuartm: | German's living in the UK maybe, I doubt anyone else has even heard of DW |
| [22:47:09] | dekarl: | then we need to market it better :) |
| [22:47:11] | stuartm: | dekarl: looks like that whole transport is only available in Africa |
| [22:47:32] | stuartm: | Astra 2F has spot beams, some target Europe, others Africa |
| [22:47:54] | stuartm: | http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/footprints/Astra-2F-West-Africa.html |
| [22:48:10] | stuartm: | http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/Astra-2F.html |
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| [22:48:52] | stuartm: | so UK or Africa |
| [22:49:25] | dekarl: | hmm, why do they make it so complicated? |
| [22:52:58] | dekarl: | so DW for UK is on 13.0E |
| [22:54:21] | stuartm: | well I don't have all the tuning info for that transport, since most of it is auto-detected, all I can add to the list is fec and rolloff |
| [22:54:23] | stuartm: | http://en.kingofsat.net/pos-28.2E.php |
| [22:54:55] | stuartm: | kingofsat tables are cleaner |
| [22:57:12] | dekarl: | We can always add details later. Then add a nice schema and stylesheet. |
| [23:02:02] | stuartm: | I'll work on a parser for the format later in the week, or at the weekend |
| [23:04:10] | stuartm: | might have it all working the week after that |
| [23:47:16] | gary_buhrmaster: | ke |
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