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Tuesday, February 17th, 2015, 00:00 UTC
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[00:04:38] dekarl: stuartm, what data are you looking for? I have no problem with filling a list and seeing what happens. e.g.  – basically you look for platform with tuning parameters for one transport, preferably one of the full si transports?
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[00:07:05] stuartm: dekarl: yes, we might expand it to more later, but initially a network name or identifier and tuning data for a starting transport
[00:07:32] dekarl: lets add relevant countries/languages. then we can give the channel scan a head start
[00:07:55] stuartm: I'm thinking one network per file rather than a big long list, that makes it simple for people to create their own and drop them into the share directory
[00:08:33] dekarl: what is a network? Is that one platform? (e.g. Freeview)
[00:09:06] stuartm: e.g. networks/Freesat.xml networks/Astra 1Z.xml
[00:09:10] dekarl: network might map to Freeview region, thats a bit detailed
[00:09:22] stuartm: I'm thinking one platform where applicable
[00:09:58] stuartm: that way we might in future ignore all channels which appear on the same satellite (for example) but which don't form part of the platform
[00:10:19] dekarl: For sat a platform will likely be one sat constellation in many parts of the world. But that should be ok, too
[00:10:28] stuartm: it's a rough concept, but if you look at Kaffeine it works for them
[00:11:00] dekarl: isn't that some open source program? /me wanders of to look if their data is open too
[00:11:11] stuartm: dekarl: yes it is
[00:11:34] stuartm: it's kde based (hence the k in caffeine)
[00:12:02] stuartm: it's got perhaps the best channel scanner UI that I've seen
[00:12:10] dekarl: oh my, everywhere the same...
[00:12:13] dekarl: its up for grabs //" rel="nofollow">
[00:12:20] stuartm: well work a look if you've never seen it before
[00:13:10] stuartm: dekarl: yeah, well let's do what we can to avoid the same thing happening here :)
[00:21:49] dekarl: ahh, gets its data from here . . . s-conf/dvb-s
[00:22:20] dekarl: but.. "Remove installation of initial scan files from Makefile"
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[00:23:06] dekarl: I'm hitting sack, will continue the scavenger hunt some other night
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[00:53:05] stuartm: dekarl: the app itself pulls them in over http
[00:53:39] stuartm: fresher that way
[00:53:55] stuartm: s/app/application/
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[10:55:26] stuartm: dblain: can you remember why we reduced parameters to lower case?
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[11:19:24] stuartm: I've a vague recollection that it was just easier than fixing all the inconsistent capitalisation of stuff like Id/ID and breaking backwards compatibility with it
[11:22:35] stuartm: the lower-casing of all parameters and not just those used by the services API is causing me a small problem, going to try reverting only that bit and see what breaks
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[18:29:20] stuartm: stuarta: added a page where you can set the cert/key paths without messing directly with the database
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[20:53:48] gigem: What are the magic packages and incantations needed to build with Qt5 on Debian? I'm getting "Project ERROR: Unknown module(s) in QT: script".
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[21:27:20] clever: gigem: sounds like you need the qt-script package
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[21:44:54] gigem: clever: Yes, that was it. Thanks.
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[22:01:08] stuartm: dekarl: so I came up with this, no real planning went into it, just made it up as I went along –
[22:01:23] stuartm: any comments? Improvements I might make before committing?
[22:01:59] stuartm: do we need more tuning data? I went with the bare minimum but that assumes the card/driver will auto-detect the rest
[22:05:44] dekarl: lets see, IIRC 2 is the original_network_id of Astra on 28.2°E
[22:05:54] dekarl: but do we need that for the channel scan?
[22:06:20] dekarl: s/network/platform/ or similar
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[22:08:08] dekarl: is that a satelite only thing? then s/transport/transponder/
[22:09:25] dekarl: and I'd add the full set of tuning parameters. (IIRC our channel scanner will not try the opens itself when the dvb drivers doesn't support autodetection)
[22:09:33] stuartm: dekarl: we don't need it, but we might find a use for it
[22:10:07] dekarl: but thinking about it, can we add DVB-s(2) frequency tables similar to the DVB-C/T tables that we already have?
[22:10:31] stuartm: dekarl: it may prove useful for some terrestrial/cable setups, although those generally stick to a smaller frequency range than satellite
[22:11:59] stuartm: dekarl: we could, but in 13 years no-one has
[22:12:38] stuartm: and because they are hardcoded it's harder to update/patch changes
[22:12:55] dekarl: I remember adding some for DVB-C earlier this decade... . . . les.cpp#L507
[22:13:30] stuartm: no-one has touched our frequency tables for DVB-T even though the ranges have changed quite a bit since the switchover to digital – here in the UK entire chunks of frequency were sold off to mobile operators
[22:14:08] stuartm: dekarl: but not for DVB-S was my point
[22:14:58] stuartm: I'd prefer something that is easier to maintain, and that we can update over http via
[22:15:05] dekarl: If I encode your example into the map, will the selection mythically appear in the channel scanner?
[22:16:03] dekarl: having just a data file on some server to update sounds good. works for the uk xmltv fixups very well
[22:16:34] stuartm: another advantage of the per-platform/network config is that we can extend it to include other things, like toggling on certain rules for scanning/filtering for best results on a given platform
[22:18:00] stuartm: dekarl: I don't think we even look at the frequency tables for DVB-S, partly because they are set by region and satellites don't respect the traditional regions
[22:18:17] dekarl: ahh, where's my link to the guide that explains what to put into an element and what to put into an attribute of the parent :/
[22:18:50] stuartm: dekarl: heh, yeah, I ignored attributes because I couldn't remember the rules either
[22:19:45] stuartm: it's a minor thing really, it's more important to get something done than for it to be perfect
[22:20:18] stuartm: but if there are glaring errors ...
[22:20:37] dekarl: I agree. But fixing the terminology would be good
[22:20:50] dekarl: network_id -> original_network_id
[22:21:15] dekarl: network -> e.g. platform or so (anything that doesn't have a "dvb name" with a different meaning)
[22:21:40] dekarl: platform is taken from the channels api at atlas
[22:22:15] stuartm: originalNetworkId or underscored version?
[22:24:15] stuartm: I'm thinking one file per 'platform', that makes it easier to patch, no conflicts and fewer bit-rotting patches
[22:24:23] dekarl: thinking about it, leave it out. (I'm not sure, I'm tempted to use it "as in the spec" with underscores)
[22:24:48] dekarl: "german TV on 19.2°" has multiple ONID
[22:27:07] stuartm: k
[22:28:19] dekarl: How do "Freesat", "Freesat HD" map to the config?
[22:30:30] dekarl: fwiw, the ONIDs on 19.2 are for different platforms (Sky on Astra 19.2 and EveryoneElse on Astra 19.2. I remembered the ARD group's and ZDF's playout center using their own ONID, but it looks like they use them on cable contributions only)
[22:30:38] stuartm: fwiw, the logic behind 'type' and 'country' were so we could only show 'platforms' which are relevant given the users location and hardware, at least as a default – the full list would be available for power users who have 10ft dishes to receive broadcasts from outside the normal footprint
[22:31:18] dekarl: I need to buy a house, so I can setup a big 80cm dish and watch BBC ;)
[22:31:35] stuartm: dekarl: Freesat/Freesat HD are the same thing, Freesat launched as an HD platform from the beginning
[22:32:58] dekarl: ok. What's a "package" on lyngsat?
[22:33:20] dekarl: I see Sky UK, and Sky DE, also HD+ (DE) but not Freesat
[22:34:31] dekarl: looks like one package is basically what you get with one CI card. aka FTA+one platform
[22:35:42] stuartm: seems like it
[22:36:26] stuartm: Sky includes pretty much all of the Freesat channels, although different numbering systems etc
[22:37:17] dekarl: hmm, so it makes sense to consider "everything FTA on one constelletion" as a package in addition to "what you get on top with *one* CI card"?
[22:37:38] stuartm: for a while some channels refused to let Sky list them because it was considered damaging to the freesat platform which was setup to provide competition to Sky's satellite dominance
[22:38:15] dekarl: what is a user who points a dish at 28.2° expecting to get as result from the channel scan?
[22:39:57] dekarl: aw well, lets just commit your example with a directory of xml files with one platfrom each (without the ONID) and move on
[22:39:58] stuartm: a MythTV user? Just FTA channels, since you can't get a Sky CAM
[22:40:52] dekarl: are they expecting Freesat only, or all FTA channels?
[22:41:07] stuartm: technically there are FTA channels which aren't part of the Freesat platform, but they are all junk – promo channels for Sky, the dregs of the shopping channels etc
[22:42:38] stuartm: dekarl: 99% will only want Freesat, because as I noted, the rest is crap – half of the non-freesat channels are just reserving space for future sky paid slots
[22:42:50] dekarl: e.g. do they expect DWTV?
[22:44:39] stuartm: German's living in the UK maybe, I doubt anyone else has even heard of DW
[22:47:09] dekarl: then we need to market it better :)
[22:47:11] stuartm: dekarl: looks like that whole transport is only available in Africa
[22:47:32] stuartm: Astra 2F has spot beams, some target Europe, others Africa
[22:47:54] stuartm:
[22:48:10] stuartm:
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[22:48:52] stuartm: so UK or Africa
[22:49:25] dekarl: hmm, why do they make it so complicated?
[22:52:58] dekarl: so DW for UK is on 13.0E
[22:54:21] stuartm: well I don't have all the tuning info for that transport, since most of it is auto-detected, all I can add to the list is fec and rolloff
[22:54:23] stuartm:
[22:54:55] stuartm: kingofsat tables are cleaner
[22:57:12] dekarl: We can always add details later. Then add a nice schema and stylesheet.
[23:02:02] stuartm: I'll work on a parser for the format later in the week, or at the weekend
[23:04:10] stuartm: might have it all working the week after that
[23:47:16] gary_buhrmaster: ke

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