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Monday, February 2nd, 2015, 00:02 UTC
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[08:48:05] stuarta: morning all
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[09:24:49] stuartm: morning
[09:29:10] stuarta: oh i am not happy. superbowl didn't record, yet when i checked it earlier in the week it was scheduled....
[09:29:34] stuartm: Raspberry Pi 2 has been announced, quad core, 1GB ram – might actually be powerful enough to run mythfrontend
[09:29:44] stuarta: have gone and scheduled the highlights instead, but not being shown until thu
[09:29:46] stuartm: stuarta: :/
[09:30:21] stuarta: now i'll have to make do with eurosport's shitty quality instead of Ch4 HD
[09:30:47] stuartm: stuarta: what type of schedule did you use? Did they move the timeslot any or change the name?
[09:31:00] stuarta: they probably changed the bloody name
[09:31:33] stuarta: wtf. i don't even have it in the schedule list
[09:31:37] ** stuarta doesn't understand **
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[10:25:45] dekarl1: Uhh, are we (hi mythbuntu) prepared for all the people who ask about their 35USD quadcore ARM System with 1gb of (shared between CPU/GPU) memory? Maybe its time to ask for ARM builders for the PPA?
[10:27:04] dekarl1: stuartm, oh you beat me to it :)
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[10:29:22] stuarta: why would you run windows 10 on that?
[10:59:11] dekarl: Because you (MS) are afraid to lose the makers to Linux/BSD/etc?
[11:03:37] stuarta: well yeah, fedora & debian all already have arm distros
[11:03:57] stuarta: which reminds me, i did have an arm cross builder on the todo list somewhere
[11:04:56] dekarl: ahhh . . . pberry-pi-2/
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[11:44:11] dekarl: Stuarta, I wonder what the issue is with tv_rec.cpp, if it wasn't for that the Pi2 would make a usable buildslave? . . . onfiguration
[11:44:29] dekarl: otoh, if setting up a cross builder is easy, then it might not be worth to go down that rabbit hole
[11:44:52] stuarta: dekarl: something in that file makes the compilers use a *lot* of memory, that file means the builders need 2G ram
[11:46:22] stuarta: i should add to that page that I now have ansible recipies which will just install everything required.
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[12:21:45] stuarta: dekarl: updated far easier now there is an automated method :-)
[12:53:01] dekarl: hmm, what is an Ansible and what is it doing with our buildslaves? ;) (ty, have to look into that on a cold winter night)
[13:02:03] stuarta: dekarl: ansible is an automation framework for servers
[13:02:43] stuarta: i've been building out the new server exclusively using ansible, that way the whole thing is repeatable.
[13:03:08] stuarta: have it down to about 1hr from bare metal to fully installed (-databases)
[13:06:59] stuarta: took some time last week to do some test builds and fixed a few missed items
[13:07:29] stuarta: the buildslave playbooks are actually quite nice as examples go
[13:08:51] dekarl: it does look interesting
[13:09:16] stuarta: i actually used the buildslaves as a way of learning the framework
[13:10:38] dekarl: So would ansible be a good base for a "test backend in a box" thing? Or is that more for Dockers? (thinking about creating a package as a UPNP demo to send to the videolan devs)
[13:11:11] ** stuarta ponders **
[13:11:33] stuarta: i would more allow them to build their own
[13:14:58] ** stuarta wanders off for lunch **
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[14:05:45] warpme: greetings all!
[14:08:16] warpme: I have Q regarding EPG. I'm providing EPG via XMLTV file. For episodes I have <episode-num system="xmltv_ns">. 4 .</episode-num>, but UI reports for this 0x5. Is this expected behaviour?
[14:11:22] stuartm: warpme: yes, the xmltv spec states that the episode and series numbers are zero indexed, they start counting from 0 – so the first series is 0
[14:12:27] stuartm:
[14:12:34] warpme: ah OK – good to know.
[14:12:37] dekarl: hu?
[14:12:49] dekarl: shouldn't that be "x5"?
[14:13:06] dekarl: the fifth episode of a show with no series?
[14:13:38] warpme: dekarl – that was exactly my thinking....
[14:13:45] dekarl: warpme: if you got questions about the source -> xmltv -> mythtv pipeline just shoot
[14:14:37] stuartm: dekarl: sure, if you're going to use the SxE format it may make sense to drop the S if it's not known (aka 0)
[14:14:54] dekarl: though I'm not sure if MythTV supports shows that have no series
[14:15:16] warpme: despite XMLTV specs tells episode starts from 0 – if my XMLTV has episode like ". 4 ." then I think UI should report 0x4 for this
[14:15:24] stuartm: one reason why I don't like or use that format, it's meaningless unless you've come across it in the past (only place I've ever seen it used is in naming of torrents)
[14:15:43] stuartm: warpme: 0x4 would be wrong
[14:15:57] dekarl: All this "NOT NULL" columns give me grey hair ;)
[14:16:04] stuartm: 0x5 or x5, or preferably Episode 5 are correct
[14:16:24] warpme: I'm doing preprocessing of my XMLTV data. So what format will be better?
[14:17:06] stuartm: S-1.E-1.P-1/T
[14:17:13] dekarl: warpme, xmltv works with zero based episode numbers, so you encode it as Zero to N-1 episodes of N total episodes
[14:17:29] stuartm: S = Season, E = Episode, P = Part, T = Total
[14:17:48] stuartm: as in total number of episodes in the season
[14:18:03] dekarl: warpme: what do you want to encode? "this is part 5 of a programme with an unknown number of total episodes"? then ". 4 ." is correct
[14:23:08] warpme: dekarl: nothing special. In 0.27 times (when UI wasn't supporting displaying episode num) my preprocesor was adding episode num to subtitle filed. Now – after switching to master I have to 1\remove it or 2\make subtitle =+1 of episode
[14:26:17] dekarl: That sounds correct. Classic off by one :)
[14:30:52] warpme: dekarl: no. It is really hard to find good EPG data in Poland. Best IMHO is
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[14:43:41] dekarl: warpme: oh my, their ToS is the same legal mumbo jumbo babble that no one understands. No simple "take it from our API at xxx and be happy for personal use" but no "go away with your personal scraper" either
[14:44:11] dekarl: I was wondering if individual stations have machine readable data that they would be willing to share liberally (many do, many don't)
[15:45:38] dekarl: Why is everybody wetting their panties wrt hevc support (on the pi2, over here, etc)? Is it the new "movies from the internet downloads" standard?
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[16:12:43] tgm4883: dekarl: I've requested an ARM ppa
[16:13:32] dekarl: tgm4883: ty
[16:14:30] stuarta: dekarl: yeah that is a good question re hevc. unless it's a broadcast standard, i'm not particularly interested
[16:15:53] dekarl: stuarta, its on spec for DVB-T2 over here, its already being tested on/off by Astra and BBC and its coming for the "HD +1 Disc" standard. But all in all its "not there yet". I'm tempted to put it in the box with suggestions for MythTV 1.0 :)
[16:16:54] dekarl: Its on the horizon (eta for the pilot is May 2016) for DVB-T in Germany
[16:18:36] stuarta: so we have a while before we need to support it ;-)
[16:18:48] stuarta: not to mention the STB will need to support it too
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[16:21:54] dekarl: otoh, we are almost there. our ffmpeg already has heard of it, I added the magic values to the descriptors. now VDPAU needs to follow. And then we can already start to connect the pieces
[16:22:39] dekarl: actually, its quite possible that you can already play hevc in matroska right now. Just no one tested it and reported back ;)
[16:23:08] dekarl: tgm4883: that was fast... While I was still subscribing its already done
[16:24:00] tgm4883: dekarl: heh, nice. Might be because I asked about it in their IRC channel first
[16:24:04] tgm4883: so they new it was coming
[16:25:30] dekarl: seeing that the raspberry pi 2 was already supported in saucy I'm wondering what the chances are of a mythbuntu image for armhf "just working"
[16:31:51] stuarta: better than zero
[16:32:06] tgm4883: dekarl: I'm not even 100% sure what it would take to get an ARM image.
[16:34:54] dekarl: So tomorrow we can see armhf results here? . . . ld_state=all
[16:36:00] tgm4883: dekarl: heh, no probably not. We'll need to add them to our source build script. I'm not sure how difficult that will be (hopefully not too difficult
[16:42:08] tgm4883: dekarl: actually I was wrong. We're already set to build for all architectures.
[16:44:06] tgm4883: dekarl: also, it will only build if there are changes since the last build. So someone will need to commit a fix
[16:47:19] tgm4883: Also, (and I'm not antsy or anything :) ) but if there was a change I could push a build now I think
[16:49:25] superm1: how do you install mythtv in snappy core though I wonder
[16:49:45] superm1: does snappy let you still install .deb stuff or do we need to install into some sort of snappy container to let it work on the pi2
[16:50:03] tgm4883: IDK, I've not looked at snappy core too closely
[16:50:09] tgm4883: is it all click packages?
[16:50:10] dekarl: re "So someone will need to commit a fix", done on master
[16:51:05] dekarl: oh my snappy is not saucy? :/
[16:51:13] ** dekarl wanders of to fix the wiki **
[16:51:42] tgm4883: dekarl: two completely different thigns
[16:51:47] superm1:
[16:52:52] dekarl: they could have simply used a initial that is unrelated to current/last/next release...
[16:53:38] superm1: talks more about it.
[16:54:02] superm1: i haven't kept up with this stuff much, but at least getting .deb's to build is the first step either way
[16:54:44] dekarl: aye, smolt hints that you can build mythtv on arm already
[16:55:11] tgm4883: superm1: yea I think this is click packages
[16:56:23] superm1: well so should we envision running front and backend on somethign with snappy? or just a frontend
[16:56:53] stuarta: superm1: i suspect many would like it as a frontend
[16:57:17] tgm4883: IDK, I have trouble with envisioning cloud architecture in smaller deployments
[16:57:35] tgm4883: I've not rolled out openstack/juju/snappy in our datacenter for that reason
[16:57:48] stuarta: there may be some die hards who would run it as a backend, but i'd expect frontends to be the primary target
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[17:20:16] dekarl: why not run it as a backend? its heaps more powerful then my first backend :)
[17:20:39] dekarl: the die hards are already running on smaller arm systems
[17:26:12] ** stuarta puts a sticker on dekarl's forehead saying "die hard" **
[17:33:46] tgm4883: it's building! . . . uild/6885955
[17:40:05] stuarta: could take a while
[17:40:52] tgm4883: stuarta: yea it could. For reference, our amd64 builds take 27 minutes
[17:41:25] stuarta: you clearly have a better host than me, my vm builds even with ccache can take a while
[17:41:39] stuarta: lack of io bandwidth is the major issue
[17:42:13] tgm4883: stuarta: not sure. I'm sure it's beefy since it's a VM on canonical's build farm but it's shared as well so IDK
[17:42:58] tgm4883: now that I think about it, our move scripts might fail
[17:43:11] tgm4883: or might not move the armhf builds. Looking into it
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[18:54:30] dekarl: tgm4883: looks like the builds aren't making it to the rm -rf of the build directory. the trusty one has already seen qemu dump core but the clock is still ticking. They hang at "debconf-updatepo", I'm comparing to . . . ADING.txt.gz
[18:55:31] tgm4883: fun
[19:39:52] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: Re: 2G for tv_rec.cpp. When I tried to compile on a 1GHz/1CPU/1GB memory BBB MythTV compiled OK (well, slow, first build (without a primed ccache) took around 10 hours, 2nd build (no changes) with full ccache was only around an hour). So the warning may not longer be correct for recent gccs (or perhaps recent refactors of tv_rec.cpp).
[19:40:55] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: It is also possible that the 10 hours was due to excessive swapping (if it really did require 2GB of vm space). I did not really pay much attention.
[19:42:38] dekarl: tgm4883: at least utopic and vivid look better. (btw, what's next, witty wolf from little red riding hood? ^^)
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[19:46:42] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: Mis-remembered. The BBB (BeagleBone Black) only has 512MB memory (AM335x ARM Cortex-V8 CPU).
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[22:01:44] tgm4883: dekarl: well one was successful. Took 3 hours and 20 minutes
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[22:04:39] dekarl: ahh, utopic, with vivid still running. nice
[22:07:29] dekarl: been looking around a bit. theres the Odroid C1, similar to the new Raspberry but with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS image. They have many flavors, but their build script appears to be not open
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[22:11:33] tgm4883: dekarl: talking with LP people, looks like it might just always fail on precise/utopic
[22:12:19] tgm4883: well, at least until "We'll have proper virtual ARM and POWER builders some time this year, but not yet."
[22:12:58] dekarl: tgm4883: well, that's good and bad. good if its not us doing something wrong, bad makes "just adding the PPA" for things like the Odroid harder
[22:13:40] tgm4883: dekarl: true, but I believe that the arm packages still exist in the official repos, it just wouldn't be an updated package
[22:13:55] dekarl: But looking how everybody sits on their private build scripts for ubuntu images supporting their board (with custom kernel patches and whatnot) its not going to be easy to create mythbuntu images anyway
[22:14:25] tgm4883: this is precisely why I don't like arm :/
[22:15:16] tgm4883: granted I haven't tried to understand it all too well, but it just seems like way more of a PITA than BIOS/UEFI and x86/x86–64 implementations
[22:15:38] dekarl: looking at the small boxes they need one-by-one support likely. e.g. setup the Odroid IR receiver in lirc out-of-the-box
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[22:17:29] tgm4883: I kicked off new builds just in case(tm), but they will likely fail on precise/trusty
[22:17:41] tgm4883: It takes 3 hours to build, so at least we know when to check back
[22:30:22] gary_buhrmaster: tgm4883: a-b-c, u-boot, and the device tree are all attempts to eliminate the confusion of the pin-specific SoC implementations, and it is getting better, but until wide adoption of the SBSA framework (and derivatives) ARM systems will continue to be "special".
[22:31:35] tgm4883: yay for special snowflakes
[22:31:46] tgm4883: gary_buhrmaster: at some point, intel is going to figure it out :/
[22:32:24] clever: and in things like the raspberry pi, you need proper drivers to handle the API to talk with firmware on the other cores
[22:32:35] clever: which are needed to even get basic video display working
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[22:33:30] dekarl: other communities are happy to share and centralize their image build scripts
[22:35:06] dekarl: so yes, they will be snowflakes for some time (SBSA being oriented towards the 64bit arm servers), but the secrecy around how they create their images makes it hard to build your own
[22:35:51] tgm4883: I don't know if we want to go around and build images for every type of device
[22:36:27] tgm4883: even picking the most popular, what is that, raspberry pi, beaglebone, arduino, odroid
[22:36:32] ** tgm4883 shrugs **
[22:37:24] stuartm: really no point in building for devices that developers don't own and therefore can't test against
[22:37:30] tgm4883: also true
[22:37:39] dekarl: can you leave out the native mythbuntu image and keep around a flavor that can be added to third-party ubuntu images?
[22:38:19] tgm4883: dekarl: well the images here should be a standard install no?
[22:38:24] tgm4883: which would have access to teh repos
[22:39:26] stuartm: I'm not going to try and explain to users why despite an image being available for the "bito'crap" it's not our fault that it doesn't work very well
[22:43:14] dekarl: oh well, need to add a column "HDMI-CEC is wired correctly and has the correct voltage levels" to the ARM Systems page :/
[22:45:03] dekarl: looks like much of the stuff is not there yet. "How do I enable wake on IR?" => "you don't"
[22:45:53] tgm4883: dekarl: why not?
[22:45:54] gary_buhrmaster: tgm4883: Intel believes (to their core-m I believe :-)) that they can compete successfully in the market to achieve what people have looked to ARM to provide (low power, low cost). Their margins for sand will need to change, of course.
[22:47:54] dekarl: tgm4883: looks like wake-on-IR on the Odroid C1 doesn't work for some reason (no explanation given), but it appears to be yet another "well, in principle it should work, but we messed it up somehow"
[22:48:57] dekarl:
[22:49:19] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: And I tend to get tired trying to explain why just because "bito'crap" is in the marketplace, it does not do what you want it to do just because you want it to. But that does not stop the questions, complaints, and demands to "make it work".
[22:50:08] tgm4883: dekarl: neat
[22:51:19] tgm4883: gary_buhrmaster: but I need a $30 mythfrontend that can also play games at ultra settings and videos at 4k resolution. If you can't make that happen then you obviously don't know what you are doing. Gees, what kind of developer are you anyway /s
[22:51:35] dekarl: tgm4883: here's "it does HDMI-CEC, only that it doesn't due to reasons"
[22:51:40] tgm4883: oh, and it have to work flawlessly out of the box
[22:52:17] dekarl: reminds me of a reference design for a popular chip which had the HDMI-CEC wired wrong
[22:54:36] tgm4883: dekarl: wow
[22:54:45] tgm4883: official response "sorry about that"
[22:55:44] tgm4883: lets release baked software for an untested device and just claim that it does what we say because we can fix it in post
[22:58:02] gary_buhrmaster: tgm4883: TTM trumps testing. Whoever gets the item up on Alibaba first wins (shipping is optional, and working even less so).
[22:58:44] tgm4883: gary_buhrmaster: oh I learned that. You apparently don't even need a product in order to put something on alibaba
[23:02:41] gary_buhrmaster: tgm4883: You never did. But it used to be harder to find the products (without Google Translate for mandarin, and some translations were, um, interesting). And what I love is pictures of an item where every vendor used the exact same picture (with the exact same serial number on the board and the components). Gives one confidence that they actually have the item.
[23:03:00] tgm4883: yep
[23:03:16] tgm4883: I finally got a HDMI dongle computer after almost 3 months
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