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aloril, amessina, Anssi, brfransen, caelor, Casper0082, CCFL_Man, Chutt, clever_, coling, dblain, dekarl, eee-blt, ElmerFudd, enyc, esperegu, espes__, fetzerch, Gibby, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, J-e-f-f-A, jams, jheizer, joki-, jpharvey_, jst, jwhite, jya, kormoc, kurre2, len_, moparisthebest, MythBuild, MythLogBot, nephyrin, peper03, poptix, purserj, rich0, rmeden1, robink, rsiebert, Seeker`, seld, sheedy, skd5aner, sphery, sraue, stuartm, suffice, superm1, taylorr, tgm4883, tonsofpcs, tris, unforgiven512, wagnerrp_, Warped, XDS2010, xris, zentec_, _charly_, _epineephrine_
Tuesday, October 28th, 2014, 00:07 UTC
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[00:46:24] jya: peper03: in 0.27 I reverted a few changes by Lawrence as it killed LiveTV or prevented consistent channel changes. In master some of them are still there. He has sent me a fix, but I didn’t get the chance to apply it and test it.
[00:46:37] jya: so I would assume that 0.27 at this stage is more reliable when it comes to liveTV
[00:48:21] jya: peper03: calculating the minimum before we are allowed to read is good in theory. In practice, we only get to know that once we’ve already started to read quite a fair bit of content to accurately determine the bitrate
[00:49:14] jya: so in practice, it’s useless. and is one of the reason I’ve changed the minimum from 800 back to 8000. So we wait a bit longer before attempting to read (which caused a lot of error at the start of liveTV)
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[08:07:52] peper03: jya: Yes, that's why I've gone with a fall-back solution of setting the initial bitrate based on the streams found. If there's no video stream, I set the bitrate based on the number of audio streams. There probably aren't many instances where there'd be more than one audio stream but it covers all eventualities.
[08:08:29] jya: peper03: that should already be like that… in avfd when it calculates the bitrate
[08:08:55] jya: it goes through all streams and append the bitrate of that stream to a global bitstream
[08:09:04] jya: once done, it will update the ringbuffer
[08:09:30] jya: but it’s important for the ringbuffer to have a value high enough so the initial parse has a chance to succeed and not get false positive
[08:09:32] peper03: The bitrate only seems to get updated once plenty has been read.
[08:09:54] jya: once there’s enough to identify the streams and start playback
[08:10:09] peper03: Which is based on the initial 8000, isn't it?
[08:10:11] jya: it’s okay that it takes a while… the initial load isn’t too bad
[08:10:37] peper03: It's ok if there's a video stream. If there's only audio it can take a long time.
[08:10:41] jya: yes.. the ringbuffer starts reading on disk, and hold the AVFD to read from it.
[08:11:15] jya: once the RingBuffer assumes it has enough (8000 start) then it lets AVFD read. AVFD then assumes the bitrate, and update the ringbuffer with the global bitrate it has just found
[08:11:21] jya: and it starts from there.
[08:11:51] peper03: With my patch to make PID filtering actually work, at least one radio station I tried took something like twenty seconds to fill the buffer. We normally abort after 10.
[08:11:55] jya: 8000bit/s means it’s going to read something like 300kB … not much, even if just audio
[08:12:47] jya: ah yeah, that would take 18+s with a 128kB audio stream
[08:13:08] jya: it’s a chicken & egg problem though
[08:13:09] peper03: Yep. I think this particular station actually came out at about 96kB
[08:13:19] jya: you don’t know it’s just audio, until you’ve read it
[08:13:35] peper03: But the backend already knows it.
[08:13:52] jya: for recordings…. sometimes
[08:14:02] jya: for video lib, no
[08:15:18] jya: so making such decision based on what the backend provide is going to fail more often than not imho
[08:15:21] peper03: The problem only really occurs on LiveTV. As soon as you're not restrictied to reading in real-time, it doesn't matter.
[08:15:41] jya: especially in liveTV… you’re just shifting the problem to the backend.. problem is still to be resolved
[08:18:11] peper03: I've not found any issues so far. Of course, I can only test with what I've got but querying the number of video/audio streams in MythPlayer::JumpToProgram and setting the initial bitrate based on that seems to have cured the problem.
[08:21:35] jya: peper03: Lawrence has a whole stack of patches in regards to audio only / Data video channels
[08:21:55] jya: it was mostly working. I reverted it all because I didn’t have the time to figure it all out
[08:22:11] jya: but in theory, with his last patch, should be able to have it all back
[08:22:17] jya: do you want to try it ?
[08:23:27] jya: his patches certainly improved changing channels in liveTV significantly.
[08:23:31] jya: very fast
[08:23:35] peper03: Sure. I'll take a look at it. It would be interesting to see a different approach. Whether I'll understand it is another question :)
[08:23:55] jya: you’ll need to go back into the August history when I reverted most of them
[08:24:02] jya: so will need to revert the revert
[08:24:06] jya: and then apply his patch
[08:24:09] jya: what’s your email address?
[08:25:34] peper03:
[08:25:43] peper03: or Take your pick :)
[08:27:15] jya: sent
[08:28:36] peper03: Ok, thanks.
[08:42:29] stuarta: jpabq: yes sure, ping me between 2–5pm GMT and I can get you setup
[08:43:36] stuarta: jpabq: i'll add one request. can you document how it all works, as I have to move stuff around soon
[08:43:47] stuarta: i've a pretty good idea anyway
[08:47:26] stuarta: it's one of the less complex things to unpick
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[16:33:45] jpabq: stuarta: Chris sent me an email with instructions. Is there a wiki or something somewere for me to put that information?
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[16:37:31] stuarta: jpabq: oh the how it all hangs together?
[16:38:04] jpabq: Yes, how new themes are added, and such.
[16:43:50] stuarta: unless there is any private information in there we should put that into the wiki somewhere under developer info
[16:45:23] jpabq: I would think that should be fine.
[16:46:03] jpabq: After I get access and go through the instructions myself to make sure I understand them, I will do that.
[16:46:50] stuarta: one thing i have noticed, is we seem to have several copies of each theme's tar ball which wastes a lot of space, space we don't have on the vm osuosl have provided us
[16:47:48] jpabq: Different versions maybe? I am guessing there is a tar for Myth 0.25, 0.26, etc.
[16:53:39] stuarta: well there is that, but the same structure appears in several locations, each with the same tarballs
[16:56:39] jpabq: After I make my changes, I will check to see where the files are created. It is possible that some of that stuff is cruft and could be removed. If it is creating multiple copies we will have to ask Chris about it.
[16:57:07] stuarta: we have the opportunity to refactor it, which is why i'm asking
[17:01:25] jpabq: The script which handles packaging up the different theme versions, and makeing them available for download by the user is /opt/www/ .
[17:01:36] stuarta: yeah found that
[17:02:21] stuarta: with /opt/www/ that seems to duplicate them into the webroot
[17:03:47] stuarta: and we also dump them somewhere for rsync to
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[17:42:52] dekarl: would be nice to get the services repo more accessible so others (hint hint) can fiddle with it when something comes out of
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[17:43:23] dekarl: ^- has channel icons for UK, too
[17:45:38] dekarl: The icon style in the EPG of Ubuntu TV is nice, too. (b/w when not selected, b/w on brand color when selected)
[17:53:28] stuarta: that's another problem entirely
[17:53:38] stuarta: the whole channel icon thing needs rewriting
[17:53:48] ** stuarta adds to rainy day project list **
[17:53:53] stuarta: right, i'm off
[17:53:55] stuarta: later
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[19:29:28] tgm4883: dekarl: I believe those are all custom icons
[19:44:14] dekarl: tgm4883: custom?
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[19:46:05] tgm4883: dekarl: yea IIRC they just made those few icons that they are showing there
[19:46:13] tgm4883: they aren't pulled from somewhere I don't believe
[19:46:38] tgm4883: I've thought about doing a mythtv theme in the style of ubuntu tv
[19:47:11] dekarl: ahh, thats no problem, just create a lingua france and let the fans do it . . . ent-records/ :)
[19:47:45] dekarl: the other link at the forum also show custom icons, as do the various mythtv icon packs
[19:48:23] dekarl: the main issue right now is that there is no "one true reference id to identify services" that can be used to connect icon packs to tv guide data
[19:49:11] dekarl: which is why i suggested that some could dump a mapping file on a server for everyoe to use / add
[19:49:23] tgm4883: hmm
[19:50:18] tgm4883: dekarl: you are talking something similar to the inetref but for channel logos?
[20:00:31] dekarl: tgm4883: yes, something like that.
[20:01:40] tgm4883: heh I just looked at that thread
[20:01:44] dekarl: just stumled upon an example of a data model lately
[20:01:49] tgm4883: I wrote something similiar for Unity
[20:01:50] stuarta: dekarl: that what the channel icon stuff on services is meant todo
[20:02:34] stuarta: it's mapping the dvb id's (netid / transportid / serviceid) to an icon
[20:02:57] dekarl: stuarta, you are referring to the mapping table, correct? Not to the internet wide tv channel database
[20:03:22] stuarta: yes the mapping, that's what the channel icon downloader in the frontend looks at
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[20:03:53] dekarl: ok. Thats why I thought that importing a hand crafted mapping file could be imported into that database
[20:04:31] stuarta: the whole principle is that doesn't work very well due to the dynamic nature of the channel allocations
[20:05:06] stuarta: hence we get users to submit their icon choices to us, which we then use to provide references to those icons to new requests
[20:05:23] stuarta: currently the approval process is manual
[20:05:53] dekarl: but that does not work well with manually crafted icon sets (as opposed to whatever ends up on lyngsat) e.g. is this available for mapping?
[20:05:56] stuarta: that's where the crowd voting system we've talked about before would come it
[20:05:59] stuarta: *in
[20:06:33] tgm4883: dekarl: someone did a demo of what I wrote here
[20:06:35] tgm4883:
[20:06:45] tgm4883: I should probably comment on that thread
[20:06:54] stuarta: dekarl: feature request without patch ;-)
[20:07:16] stuarta: but seriously, we could use sets like that in addition or instead of lyngsat
[20:07:56] stuarta: right, time for some dinner and then some painting
[20:08:01] stuarta: talk tomorrow
[20:12:40] dekarl: looks like the dutch mythtv collection was rescued after vanishing from the internet . . . #svn%2Ftrunk
[20:13:15] dekarl: stuarta: no patch without looking at the code :p
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[20:24:39] Roklobsta: mythweb request: radio buttons next to recording schdules and recorded programs to allow bulk delete without have to get arthritis in the process.
[20:31:37] dekarl: Roklobsta: I like the idea, buy mythweb is on live support, so its unlikely to happen
[20:31:44] dekarl: s/buy/but/
[20:32:18] Roklobsta: ok
[20:32:22] Roklobsta: dunno why it's awesome
[20:33:14] dekarl: it isn't so awesome anymore once you looked under the cover ;)
[20:33:24] dekarl: aka no one likes to touch the code
[20:34:55] Roklobsta: well on the surface it is fantastic
[20:35:16] Roklobsta: it really makes mythtv usable for my household, to manage/find/delete/playonlaptop recordings
[20:35:20] stuartm: radio buttons wouldn't work, you probably meant checkboxes
[20:35:27] Roklobsta: oh yeah checkboxes
[20:35:29] Roklobsta: duh
[20:35:31] stuartm: but as dekarl says, it's dead
[20:35:39] stuartm: being replaced
[20:36:53] dekarl: Roklobsta: did you look at MobilyMyth?
[20:40:03] jheizer: MobileMyth has no rules control. I never got the rest far enough along to want to start down that path.
[20:40:17] jheizer: Though seems like a dead end with the webfrontend on the way
[20:40:57] dekarl: jheizer, was thinking of playonlaptop
[20:41:57] jheizer: Oh, got yeah. Yeah my goal is consumption. If I can figure out why my .deb has one bug left I can release the repo and people can use it much easier.
[20:43:34] jheizer: tgm4883, maybe you would have an idea. Everything install great, but on remove/purge, my prerm is never executed.
[20:44:19] stuartm: webfrontend has html 5 video support (well HLS), although it doesn't work well enough atm, hoping to fix that and add dash support. lacks direct streaming of files ala mythweb, but that's a one-liner patch
[20:45:17] jheizer: Yeah, hard top explain to people when to use direct, when to use HLS, when you need JWPlayer, when you need a native player, etc.
[20:46:59] stuartm: live streaming via HTML 5 is getting better all the time, think if we get DASH as well as HLS we should be OK with most browsers at the point of release
[20:48:51] stuartm: but we'd really benefit from a better transcoding backend, on-demand segment transcoding, so you can start playback in the middle of the file without having to transcode the first half, and also so on faster systems we can be transcoding multiple segments at once
[20:49:32] stuartm: also need to start transcoding faster
[20:49:55] stuartm: long wishlist for the transcoder side
[20:49:59] jheizer: agreed on both.
[20:50:03] stuartm: ogg support is a must too
[20:50:13] stuartm: well webm
[20:53:33] stuartm: jwplayer is a dead end, newer versions lack support for HLS/DASH, that's something you have to pay extra for and while the older copy we use still works, it's not keeping pace with the latest browser developments (new HTML 5 markup, pepper flash etc)
[20:54:58] jheizer: Also agreed. Was even way out when I first borrowed Myth's use of it years ago. It's too bad we still don't have a simple cross platform way to play videos out of the box.
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[21:13:19] Roklobsta: oh does HTML5 streaming do deinterlacing like VLC does?
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[21:22:05] tgm4883: jheizer: hmm, superm1 would probably know more
[21:24:04] stuartm: Roklobsta: no, we have to convert to progressive during transcoding
[21:26:09] Roklobsta: in real time?
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[21:26:19] Roklobsta: i don't bother transcoding any more, Terabytes are cheap
[21:30:35] Roklobsta: well, at least leave the option for asx playing to VLC or some other player
[21:31:04] stuartm: yes, in realtime
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