MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

Current users (69):

aloril, amessina, andreaz, Anssi, arescorpio, bill6502, brfransen, caelor, Casper0082, CCFL_Man, Chutt_, clever, coling, dblain, dekarl, eee-blt, ElmerFudd, enyc, epinephrine, esperegu, fetzerch, Gibby, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, J-e-f-f-A, jams, jarle, jheizer, joki, jpharvey_, jst, jwhite, jya, kormoc, kurre2, len_, moparisthebest, MythBuild, MythLogBot, nephyrin, peper03, poptix-, purserj, rich0, rmeden, rsiebert, Seeker`, seld, Sharky112065, sheedy-away, skd5aner, sl1ce, sphery, sraue, stuartm, suffice, superm1, taylorr, tgm4883, tonsofpcs, tris, unforgiven512, wagner__, Warped, XDS2010, xris, zentec, _charly_
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2014, 00:07 UTC
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[00:38:35] skd5aner: made the switch to .27.4, guess we'll see how the new SD-DD service works :)
[00:41:03] rmeden: skd5aner: oh no! be afraid, very afraid! :)
[00:41:18] skd5aner: heh, I know better than that ;)
[00:41:31] skd5aner: I've stayed far away from the doomsayers
[00:41:33] rmeden: It's been two days since I broke it
[00:41:45] ** rmeden regrets saying that! **
[00:42:03] skd5aner: just let me know what to expect (really) so I'm not caught off guard
[00:42:11] skd5aner: should I expect any breakage while you tune things?
[00:42:13] rmeden: you should expect nothing
[00:42:20] rmeden: (I wrote it)
[00:42:35] skd5aner: I know you wrote it, and thank you
[00:42:46] skd5aner: I just haven't been following too closely, too much SNR
[00:42:52] rmeden: Heck, if you've been using the default config, with the TMS hostname, you've been getting me half the time for about a week
[00:43:10] rmeden: if you want tell me your SD username, I'll tell you if you've already hit it
[00:43:15] skd5aner: Yea, they doing some form of round-robin load balancing?
[00:43:20] rmeden: yup
[00:43:25] skd5aner: I'll PM you
[00:43:50] skd5aner: sent
[00:44:12] rmeden: it really has helped raise some issues... not that my testers weren't annoyingly great, nothing like jumping from 60/day to thousands to get your attention!
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[00:44:46] skd5aner: yea... well, that's part of the reason I spoke up. Need me to be on the lookout for anything? anything in particular you'd like me to "test"?
[00:46:06] rmeden: I see only two downloads 10/19, 10/20. success status about 60MB sent
[00:46:25] rmeden: so I think those days you used me already... so you won't notice a thing!
[00:46:31] rmeden: (if you haven't already)
[00:46:53] rmeden: please don't test anything.. I'm tired of fixing things :)
[00:47:30] rmeden: next thing I need to work on is digest authentication for those apps that only support it
[00:50:45] rmeden: crap.. you already showed me a bug! The log entry has your username in the IP field!
[00:51:05] rmeden: (I haven't been looking at the logs a lot)
[00:54:04] skd5aner: haha
[00:54:38] skd5aner: See... I'm so helpful and I don't even know it
[00:55:47] rmeden: fixed... it was easy
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[04:16:39] bill6502: rmeden: is "#7. SD-DD only appears to have 13 days of data (even less right now.. working data loader problems)" still considered open? it matches what I'm getting (and someone on -users.)
[04:16:39] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7 **
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[04:16:57] rmeden: yup
[04:17:18] bill6502: thanks
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[05:42:01] dekarl: rmeden: just erect a sign showing "days since the last service interruption: 0" like many companies do for accidents as an incentive for their employees ;)
[05:42:45] rmeden: :)
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[06:57:07] Roklobsta: I found a boog.
[06:59:51] Roklobsta: In mythtv/libs/libmythtv/videosource.cpp and class DVBTuningDelay : public SpinBoxSetting, public CaptureCardDBStorage there looks to be a missing setValue() after the setLabel() unlike all the other fields. This might explain why setting the value for this delay never makes it into the database.
[07:00:04] Roklobsta: it might also cure all my DVB woes if working.
[07:00:44] Roklobsta: s/fields/Classes
[07:13:41] dekarl: Roklobsta: I don't see a setValue() on any setting derived from CaptureCardDBStorage
[07:15:51] dekarl: unless its ChannelTimeout
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[07:41:32] Roklobsta: ok, it's what i noticed. it's just that this dvb_tuning_delay doesn't seem to get stored if you set it. Try set to anything other than 0, Finish, come back it's 0 again.
[07:52:03] dekarl: IIUIC a missing setValue would appear as if its not being loaded from the database to the GUI
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[07:56:40] stuarta: morngin all
[07:57:24] stuarta: Roklobsta: i'm fairly sure there's an open bug about that
[08:18:22] Roklobsta: dekarl: ok so it's being set.
[08:18:55] dekarl: Roklobsta: did you peek into the database?
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[08:27:41] stuarta: hmmm the digg tools seem to have disappeared
[08:30:20] stuarta: looks like they have been removed
[08:33:49] Roklobsta: dekarl: um not yet, just been 'debugging' with grep and less.  ;)
[08:35:01] stuarta: Roklobsta: which version btw?
[08:39:00] Roklobsta: 0.28 trunk
[08:39:04] Roklobsta: i git pull every day
[08:47:24] stuarta: website de-digg'd
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[09:11:12] stuarta: \o/ 5002 forum sessions in the last month
[09:11:24] stuarta: we've cracked 5k :)
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[09:52:58] stuartm: I should update the tapatalk plugin, they've been nagging me about updated releases for weeks now
[10:10:07] Roklobsta: stuarta: it has your name on it. https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12221
[10:10:26] Roklobsta: jya dodged it
[10:15:08] stuarta: i knew i'd seen it before :0–0
[10:22:02] Roklobsta: nope dvb_tuning_delay doesn't get stored in the database
[10:22:16] Roklobsta: i tested by changing signal timeout and the change was in the database
[10:22:38] Roklobsta: dvb_tuning_delay is steadfastly stuck on 0 everywhere.
[10:23:33] stuarta: it should be a simple fix, it's clearly not saving the value
[10:24:23] Roklobsta: riddle me this. I have 4 tuners set up, the capturecard table has 12 rows. when i changed the signal_timeout value 3 rows in signal_timeout changed.
[10:25:43] stuarta: multirec set to 3
[10:25:48] Roklobsta: ahhhhhhhhh yes
[10:25:50] Roklobsta: derrr
[10:25:53] stuarta: :)
[10:26:00] Roklobsta: 3 whatsis per thingy
[10:26:11] stuarta: yes multirec
[10:26:20] Roklobsta: which is what i have set for each card
[10:26:21] Roklobsta: ok
[10:50:19] Roklobsta: should the VideoDevice column in capturecards table have the tuners (including multirec) in ascending order? my adapters in this table are 2,2,1,1,1,0,0,0,2,3,3,3
[11:03:03] stuartm: the order makes no difference
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[11:05:53] stuarta: Roklobsta: what's the max dvb tuning delay you are trying to set?
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[11:08:04] RokLobsta: say 5000ms to start
[11:10:48] stuartm: did you trying changing the concurrent tunings delay in dvbchannel?
[11:14:41] stuarta: dvb_tuning_delay <-- that value i don't expect will change
[11:15:36] RokLobsta: no i am not at a point where i am building and testing binaries
[11:15:53] RokLobsta: concurrent delay is a magic number of 1000 at the moment.
[11:16:20] stuartm: it's milliseconds, 1000ms, or 1 second
[11:17:32] RokLobsta: yeah 1000ms
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[12:04:10] RokLobsta: ok for now on the tuners i want delayed to try and avoid i2c conflicts i have manually edited the dvb_tuning_delay value in the db.
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[20:08:09] dekarl1: tgm4883: yes, we need to work on the scanner lots. but that doesn't mean that our beloved users couldn't just use the python binding for that...
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[20:59:12] tgm4883: dekarl: I agree, I just wanted to interject that rather than having to do all this maintenance on your mythtv setup, why don't we just fix the problem?
[21:04:10] tgm4883: dekarl: the problem is that while the python bindings are great, there is much more information about how to alter a mysql DB than there is to use the mythtv binding. Heck, even the wiki documentation on the services API is incomplete
[21:04:22] tgm4883: dekarl: so I can hardly blame people for doing what they are doing
[21:04:29] tgm4883: even though I agree they shouldn't
[21:09:36] stuartm: are you guys still responding to these threads on the list? Do yourselves a favour and ignore them, every time you respond you just give the thread more life
[21:12:04] jheizer: I can't believe how big the mysql one has become.
[21:15:29] tgm4883: stuartm: eh, sphery ^^
[21:17:21] bill6502: one year this (same) thread ran and someone posted a 'cookbook' on how to access the data the 'old way'. I a) couldn't find it in the archive and b) don't want to join the thread anyway.
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[21:34:04] dekarl: stuartm, I just look at the mailman documentation... we can always add a "put all messages with header field references and value 'a message id' into the spam moderation queue" into effect... so much for "forums can block thread but mailing lists can't"
[21:34:47] tgm4883: dekarl: it would just evolve into multiple threads once people found out their emails weren't hitting the list
[21:34:48] stuartm: block one thread and they'll start another, but ignore them and they'll eventually get bored
[21:34:56] tgm4883: dekarl: you need a way to shadowban people like on reddit
[21:37:56] stuartm: most email clients have options for ignoring particular threads if you can't just pretend they don't exist, or do what I did a week ago and unsubscribe from the list
[21:38:41] dekarl: that's the same on the forums. so just post a message "this thread is ended now" and block it. I someone posts new threads, remind them once, then put the user on moderation... its not rocket science ;)
[21:38:58] stuartm: the mistake I made was re-subscribing to -users in the first place
[21:39:28] dekarl: the problem is that you sometimes can't not feed the trolls or it ends up like the schedules direct list with all the "MythTV dev's talk to us" posts
[21:40:45] stuartm: the rules work better if they are enforced from the beginning, we can do that on the forums because they are still new, but the mailing lists have been left to fend for themselves for years
[21:42:30] stuartm: and if you do try to shut down those threads those users won't stop, they'll just take the argument to every site they can find, you'll find them editing the wikipedia page for MythTV to say stuff like "Mythtv has a reputation of censoring their users" (happened more than once)
[21:43:19] stuartm: hence better just to let them argue amongst themselves until they realise that no-one is listening any more
[21:47:42] stuartm: I know it's easy to say and harder to do, I'm just as guilty of not knowing when to walk away and posting without taking time to calm down so that I only make the situation worse, but I do recognise the pattern these days
[21:55:43] ** stuartm walks away from this thread and goes to bed **
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[22:04:54] ** rmeden is glad to finally have sd-dd digest support "working" for those apps that don't check to see the login wanted! **
[22:05:27] dekarl: \o/
[22:05:44] rmeden: Ihope that's the last set of apps that can't work with the new system
[22:09:58] rmeden: wow.. one of the apps that seemed to be banding on sd-dd for failed logins may be MythTV 0.27! If you geys get a login error, do you retry constantly or do you back off a bit?
[22:11:09] rmeden: I don't think Myth does that.. it's psssible the member is just running multiple apps.. I do see a python grabber for that user as well.
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[22:16:09] stuartm: rmeden: not familiar with that code, but it appears to give up immediately, doesn't even seem to retry later
[22:17:16] rmeden: stuarm: great.. the user most be using other apps
[22:17:34] stuartm: some users (for their own unique, 'special' reasons) manually invoke our guide grabbing application (mythfilldatabase) from a script instead of letting MythTV decide when and how to run it
[22:17:56] rmeden: shame on them :)
[22:17:57] stuartm: it's possible they've got a script that will keep retrying
[22:18:13] rmeden: some apps just retry immeidately, Two folks were hitting Tribune 10k times a day
[22:18:25] rmeden: many where in the thousands (oh, those accounts were expired too)
[22:20:00] stuartm: rmeden: do you have some 'usage' limits in your Terms and Conditions? Some reason for suspending accounts of users who hit the service excessively?
[22:20:30] rmeden: I don't think there's anything in our TOS, but those account are expired anyway! I've set up fail2ban to block them.
[22:21:14] rmeden: *I* don't even like reading our TOS... I was never happy with what the lawyers insisted on.
[22:22:33] stuartm: rmeden: I may still be wrong about our behaviour, but there's no obvious retry loops, appears to log an error and exit – the guy who wrote and maintained our DD grabber/parser left the project some time ago
[22:23:09] rmeden: I'd be very surprised if it was Myth... and I would have noticed it earlier.
[22:23:29] stuartm: which is just one of the reasons why I want to migrate DD users over to XMLTV which is actively maintained
[22:24:24] rmeden: ha ha ha ha... You know I wrote XMLTV's tv_grab_na_dd don't you... I think there has been maybe 4 lines of code in the last 5 years.
[22:24:28] rmeden: (changes)
[22:24:37] rmeden: "actively maintained"... yea :)
[22:24:53] stuartm: rmeden: I mean MythTV's xmltv parser
[22:25:13] stuartm: and yes, I know you wrote the xmltv grabber for DD (the original)
[22:25:16] ** rmeden now is curious about _na_dd commits... looking it up **
[22:25:31] rmeden: performance sucks on it too! :) But that's because it's pure perl
[22:27:35] rmeden: two years ago, I fixed a bug in it.
[22:28:01] rmeden: other changes at 4 years.. so I guess I work on it every two years.. that's a pattern! :)
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[22:31:55] stuartm: I'm guessing it still works though :) Our datadirect parser has only been touched to fix some compiler/static analysis warnings in the last few years, or because of wider changes to libs it depended upon, the actual guts don't seem to have been touched more or less since Schedules Direct was launched
[22:32:47] rmeden: Yea, the service under TMS has been very stable... very few changes
[23:19:19] bill6502: rmeden: I see no. 7 on the Known Issues list is now back to saying 13 days, and I just checked mine. I've got full data through 11/3 :)
[23:21:20] rmeden: I got an email back from Gracenote, they do offer 14 days UTC midnight -> UTC midnight... which works out to 13 days effectively. :(
[23:21:36] rmeden: it's not per-customer customizable.. so it can't be fixed
[23:27:36] bill6502: but the issue of having data 'til 10/31 appears to have been fixed (that was a compliment, 13 works for me!) I'm responding to a R Kannan on the -users list, he's got a hole 11/1 @ 1:00 to 11/2 @ 11:00
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