MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

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Details:
    datetime:  2014-10-17 00:06:43 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
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Thursday, October 16th, 2014, 00:18 UTC
[00:18:26] jheizer: Since I have already been dancing in this fire, could anyone recommend a XMLTV grabber to start looking at to learn/use as a starting place for SD?
[00:18:47] jheizer: I am pretty swamped right now with work, but I could start trying to put something together.
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[03:15:46] ** Captain_Murdoch puts on his flame retardant jacket **
[03:19:07] Captain_Murdoch: The JSON grabber has been around for 6 months: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/566695 Trying to say that it has only been available for testing for a few weeks is blatantly false. I also think that it is an insult to everything RobertK has done for MythTV to claim that the JSON grabber came from someone outside MythTV, even if he is listed in the inactive section of the developer list wiki page. I don't u
[03:19:07] Captain_Murdoch: nderstand what all the drama is about if there is a DNS change solution. SD didn't know about the date 6 months ahead of time, it was sprung on us as well. There is an XMLTV solution already that can use the SD-DD interface that RobertK developed, the na_dd XMLTV grabber works with DataDirect and has already been switched over to use the new hostname.
[03:20:27] Captain_Murdoch: all that being said, I agree with wanting a standard and have been in favor of migrating users to XMLTV instead of the built-in DD grabber, but this isn't a reason to push that when the solution is a simple hostname change and guide data still flows.
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[03:40:15] bill6502: hi, there won't be a DNS solution, at least not a long term one: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Schedules_Direct_URL_Change . it's the users running < 0.27.4 that are likely to be the issue. that's the reason for writing the Wiki. otherwise, I agree, up-to-date users wouldn't know the difference (in no small part due to the number of folks doing testing on the -users list.) RobertE is keeping the list of open SD issues on the SD forum, which I'd suggest is where
[03:40:18] bill6502: it should be.
[03:41:41] bill6502: I'll see your 6 months and raise you 1. my 1st email from RobertK was 4/12/2014 when he set-up a beta user for me to test the JSON solution ;)
[03:50:36] Captain_Murdoch: October (10th month) minus April (4th month) = 6
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[03:51:49] Captain_Murdoch: and there is a DNS solution, change the DNS entry or change the hostname. As planned, Robert E is sending a DNS change request to Tribune to have them change their DNS records to point to SD, that is a short-term solution, long term is to change the hostname being used by clients.
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[03:54:59] bill6502: agreed (about my math.) searching for my info from RobertE that said the Tribune change wouldn't happen
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[03:57:27] bill6502: http://forums.schedulesdirect.org/viewtopic.p . . . t=2591#p7807
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[04:12:12] bill6502: gn, I read the logs, so if there's a change in the Tribune DNS solution, please mention it
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[04:17:35] Captain_Murdoch: according to an email I received from him about 30 minutes ago, he's submitted the DNS change request and it should take effect tomorrow so some traffic to the old hostname will start going directly to SD servers. This is a DNS add, not a replacement, so some clients will go to the new SD servers, some will still go to the old Tribune servers depending on which IP they chose from the two given in the DNS response.
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[06:34:56] dekarl: jheizer: a nice person wrote a guide over at http://wiki.xmltv.org/index.php/HowtoWriteAGrabber
[06:35:58] dekarl: but with one alternate iunterface being implemented I'm wondering about adding another alternate interface, thinking of http://www.oztivo.net/twiki/bin/view/TVGuide/StaticXMLGuideAPI
[06:37:42] dekarl: I have implementing such interface for UK/IE on the list, but given that I'm hailing from DE and the length of my list that may or may not happen. You'd have to talk to the SD people about that direction though
[06:40:19] dekarl: PS: a grabber to the OzTivo interface would be appreciated, too. We now have a nice caching system on the server but no grabber for it. (that would come in handy for DE/CH/AT/LI/IT/NL/SE/FI/etc)
[06:40:37] dekarl: and of course AU
[06:47:46] dekarl: data for the break even point between one file per channel and one file per channel and day hosted on Amazon S3 is here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/at . . . g7cKnk5p_zsJ
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[08:05:56] Roklobsta: i used shepherd. it's brilliant.
[08:06:14] Roklobsta: perl magic it is
[08:06:48] Roklobsta: http://svn.whuffy.com/
[08:08:04] Roklobsta: dekarl: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ directed to you
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[09:14:36] paul-h: Captain_Murdoch: maybe he should of spoken up when the subject was raised on the developers list?
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[09:16:53] paul-h: Captain_Murdoch: The complete apathy on the subject from the US devs has been telling I think
[09:19:55] paul-h: All of the panic could have been avoided if someone in the know, hint a US dev who has links to SD :), made an announcement months ago what the MythTV position was and how it would be handled
[09:21:38] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: we're not 'pushing' the xmltv solution at this time, we've already made the hostname change to both fixes and master, we'll only use the xmltv solution when it's good and ready
[09:22:34] paul-h: We should learn something from this and not make the same mistakes with the Atlas/RT switch :)
[09:22:47] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: and of course non of the European devs tested or even looked at the JSON grabber before now, we expected the US devs to review it because it affects them, not us
[09:24:45] paul-h: Unfortunately it is us European devs getting the stick :(
[09:26:10] stuartm: we did recommend from the beginning, when RK first mentioned working this JSON feed that we'd prefer an XMLTV solution – it's not uncommon, UK guide data is also a JSON feed which is retrieved and feed into MythTV through XMLTV, but RK for whatever reason completely ignored that
[09:29:13] stuartm: paul-h: when I last spoke to Nick he indicated that he was happy to finish his version of the atlas grabber, I'll speak to him again today and find out if he's made any progress, I'd be happy to finish it for him if necessary
[09:32:38] paul-h: That would be an update to the current RT grabber so users would only have to update there version of XMLTV?
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[09:34:54] stuartm: correct
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[09:37:21] paul-h: That does sound like the best solution
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[09:40:51] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: fwiw, no insult was meant to Robert, but his grabber was not a 'MythTV' project, he didn't cooperate with MythTV devs in writing it, he didn't use any existing MythTV code or commit a single line of it to the MythTV repos, he was wearing his Schedules Direct hat when the work was done. Therefore I don't think it's inaccurate to call it a "third party" solution nor to say it was "released by Schedules Direct" which is all we've
[09:40:52] stuartm: done in official statements
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[11:00:41] stuartm: rmeden: is the SD-DD format is compiled from the old flat file data and not constructed from the data in the JSON feed?
[11:01:29] stuartm: or to ask the question that's actually on my mind, rmeden: would there be any possibility of extending the old DD XML format to include season and episode information so that users can benefit from that extra data in the short term?
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[12:57:18] dekarl-work: paul-h: users must sign up with atlas, ask for PA data, take the API key and put it into the grabber config. I'm not seeing a way around that atm
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[13:02:47] paul-h: dekarl: Yeah that is a pain in the arse :( the updated RT grabber will presumably have the same problem unless a project wide key can be negotiated from metabroadcast
[13:05:07] paul-h: my guess is they want individual users to get one so if they decide in the future to charge for data they know who to contact
[13:09:57] stuartm: it seems more that the Press Association are suddenly paranoid about people using their data for commercial purposes and they see the keys as a way of tracing such mis-use
[13:10:12] jheizer: dekarl, thanks. I'll check that link out and see what I can do time permitting.
[13:17:17] paul-h: Don't know if anybody has noticed the example widget is showing durations +1 hour in the more info popup on their example page http://atlas.metabroadcast.com/#widgets
[13:24:36] stuartm: the EPG widget at the top?
[13:25:08] stuartm: all appears fine here, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing
[13:28:15] paul-h: hover over a program and click more at the bottom of the popup another popup is shown showing the duration
[13:31:14] stuartm: tried that, they are given correctly for me – Escape to the country = 45mins, Fifteen to One = 1hrs
[13:33:00] paul-h: Interesting I get Duration: 1hrs 45mins for Escape to the country
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[14:40:00] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: for the record, if someone had actually stepped up from the US developers and had written a proper, integrated client for the JSON API exactly like the existing DD client then we would have accepted it. We might have moaned that it was a wasted opportunity to reduce the code duplication and to ensure that all users get an equal experience, but we would have gone along with it
[14:40:15] rmeden: stuartm: SD-DD does use the flat file feed, which I don't think has the season/episode info
[14:40:30] stuartm: rmeden: OK, thanks for letting me know
[14:41:37] rmeden: stuartm: BTW, most of the SD board are MythTV users if not (seemiingly former) devs... if any group should be "in the know" it should have been Myth.
[14:42:40] stuartm: MythTV 0.28 is the first version (unreleased) which actually supports the use of season/episode data for programs, (we get that information from xmltv for some sources, and OTA guide data in some countries), would have been nice if it was available but we can wait for a JSON > XMLTV solution
[14:42:43] rmeden: RobertK was trying for months (ineffectually) to get someone to write a client for his JSON service.
[14:43:12] stuartm: rmeden: yeah, I'm not sure where it all went so wrong
[14:43:45] rmeden: We (SD) should certainly have used the "coucil" mailing list to keep devs more informed... even if we didn't get a response, that's where we should have tried
[14:44:18] rmeden: are you on that mailing list? Maybe the "official" MythTV app contact should be changed to an active dev.. I think it is xris now.
[14:44:43] stuartm: we saw he talk of his JSON service back in 2013, at that time it was still in the early stages and then, speaking personally, I heard nothing more about it except the odd oblique reference
[14:45:07] stuartm: rmeden: no I'm not subscribed to any SD mailing lists
[14:45:47] rmeden: drop me an email and I'll add you.
[14:46:14] rmeden: whoh... just got an email from Gracenote.. the second IP on the TMS servers is live..... wow.
[14:46:27] ** rmeden hopes the server doesn't expload! **
[14:46:46] stuartm: sorry, my typing is getting sloppy, we saw an email and brief discussion of the JSON service in 2013, the non-US devs (and some US devs) suggested the XMLTV approach back then, but Robert wasn't interested in pursuing that
[14:46:59] Captain_Murdoch: rmeden has already talked about extending the XMLTV spec to handle the newly available data but that will require an XMLTV grabber that uses the JSON API because the SD-DD solution is using a different data source which does not have the new data in it. I agree on the U.S. side, a lot have been too busy and some burnt out. it would have been nice to know sooner, I think SD can agree on that. I beleive the original reason the
[14:47:00] Captain_Murdoch: JSON solution was created was because of the new data source available to SD, not because we knew DD was going away next month. If we had known about a Nov 1 deadline 6 months ago, then SD-DD would have been live months ago. SD is non-profit but it is a business with a contract with TMS (now purchased by Gracenote) and that carries certain restrictions as well so even if we knew, we might not have been able to tell anyone unti
[14:47:00] Captain_Murdoch: l a certain date.
[14:49:55] rmeden: Yea, they've spoke about it going away for years, but only a few months ago did we get a date... we were hesitent to post it to avoid a panic. Our first public post about it was meant to be a non-panic post to move folks to JSON. No development had started on a SD-DD.
[14:50:19] rmeden: anyway.. I gotta run, back in a bit.. got a meeting in 10 min and have to watch the SD-DD servers blow up (and defend them :) )
[14:51:33] stuartm: rmeden: it's fair to say that of the current active developers, only one? is from North America, but back when this JSON service was first mentioned there were more active North American developers and I believe it was generally assumed that one of them would take an interest
[14:52:08] stuartm: that was probably the last time any of the non-American developers paid any attention to the subject until the email from SD last month
[14:52:45] Captain_Murdoch: stuartm, my comments weren't directed to you in particular, I think there has been some FUD going around though and causing a rift. We (the SD 'staff' as one person referred to us) don't get paid to provide the SD service, and it's a non-profit entity. I think things could have been handled better and will take some of the blame on not taking more of a lead position interfacing with MythTV, I could have done more, but I haven'
[14:52:45] Captain_Murdoch: t been able to keep up on MythTV things as much as I'd like recently. I'm one of the people still running 0.25 at home although my dev machine has the latest master built.
[14:53:33] ** Captain_Murdoch needs to read new scrollback sometimes before hitting enter. :) **
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[14:54:46] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: everyone can share the blame, I'm not really interested in apportioning it to one group or the other but I am trying to avoid MythTV's reputation being damaged by the situation :)
[14:57:41] Captain_Murdoch: I can agree, and thank you guys for continuing to carry on and I don't like sitting by the sidelines.
[14:58:48] Captain_Murdoch: that's part of why I wanted to try to make time to work on a XMLTV solution.
[15:01:31] stuartm: 6 weeks was never going to be enough time to switch over to the JSON service with a minimum of disruption for users, which is why I'm glad SD were able to roll out the SD-DD feed
[15:01:39] stuartm: it gives us breathing space
[15:01:40] Captain_Murdoch: long gone are the days where I could spend 4–5 hours a night on MythTV though. :( I need a 28-hour day, I think my brain was built for it, but the rest of my life wasn't. :)
[15:02:04] Captain_Murdoch: yes, kudos to rmeden for that.
[15:05:50] tgm4883: Who is RGNewbury?
[15:06:43] tgm4883: because I've been looking through our forum and the mailing list and looking at what I need to respond to and I'm trying to not go off on him right now
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[15:11:32] paul-h: tgm4883: He said yesterday he was a director of Schedules Direct – http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/577868#577868
[15:11:52] tgm4883: ah ok
[15:12:14] tgm4883: kind of a cheeky bastard isn't he?
[15:12:44] paul-h: They seems to have more directors than customers :)
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[15:12:54] tgm4883: I do wish he'd get some facts straight before spewing nonsense though
[15:13:13] stuartm: certainly spoiling for a fight instead of trying to bring some calm to the situation
[15:13:57] tgm4883: stuartm: heh, my thoughts exactly
[15:14:28] stuartm: Doom! Doom! We're all doomed!
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[15:15:08] jheizer: Very Pro JSON right now.
[15:15:12] stuartm: a catchphrase which I'm sure will be lost on everyone except Paul and I
[15:15:32] ** jheizer had similar feelings to the most recent reply. **
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[15:16:03] tgm4883: I think I pissed him off with the 90% comment
[15:16:46] stuartm: you'd think a Barrister would have a more thoughtful and composed disposition
[15:17:00] tgm4883: what is a barrister?
[15:17:12] stuartm: courtroom lawyer to you Americans
[15:17:16] tgm4883: ah
[15:19:27] stuartm: UK/Canada and a few other countries divide 'lawyers' into two groups, Solicitors don't appear in court, they provide legal advice, write letters, mostly office work – Barristers are specialists who appear in court, they are usually hired by your Solicitor and not directly by the client
[15:20:11] stuarta: stuartm: not quite. solicitors do appear in court, but they also employ barristers as specialists in a particular area
[15:20:27] stuarta: ie. for difficult and complex cases
[15:20:38] jheizer: Interesting
[15:21:02] stuartm: stuarta: well indeed, perhaps I simplified the distinction too much
[15:21:07] stuarta: :)
[15:21:53] stuartm: basically if you're accused of murder, you'll have a barrister, but you won't if you're just drawing up your will :p
[15:24:21] tgm4883: I think we just call them all lawyers, but there are different kinds of lawyers (trial lawyers, tax lawyers, divorce lawyers, etc)
[15:26:05] stuartm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrister#Diffe . . . d_solicitors
[15:27:35] jpabq: In the US, a solicitor is someone trying to sell you something.
[15:27:51] jheizer: Well, we do have other names for them as well ;) lol
[15:28:41] jpabq: :)
[15:28:54] jheizer: Yeah solicitor = Stop calling me while I eat dinner or knocking on my door trying to get me to join your church (that one just happened 45 minutes ago)
[15:29:21] stuartm: actually I learnt something new from that wikipedia article, that many of the laws concerning what solictors can't do have been repealed in the last few years, so now there's less of a difference between the two
[15:33:12] stuartm: stuarta: https://dev.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=forum.mythtv.org
[15:34:38] stuartm: only slight blemish is that lack of the anti-tls downgrade patch
[15:36:47] stuarta: good
[15:37:27] stuarta: nobody supports the downgrade stuff yet, because it's still being developed
[15:40:35] stuartm: well, except google who wrote it and patched their servers back in Feb!
[15:43:11] rmeden: holy crap Batman! SD-DD seems to be holding the load!
[15:43:55] rmeden: no telling what the big servers are costing me, but I can always back down later :)
[15:44:00] tgm4883: so how does fedora do mythtv updates?
[15:46:37] stuartm: paul-h: it looks like https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/299141e0a6 should get backported
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[15:49:04] dekarl-work: rmeden: there is always the option to prepare static station<->day files, maybe already converted to xmltv, and serve those. Uses very little server ressources ;)
[15:49:17] stuartm: coling_: I'm not sure if you've been following any of this, but we could really use the Mageia MythTV packages being updated to 0.27.4 before the 1st November, on that date the US guide data service is turning off the feed on an old URL, users who haven't upgraded may be caught out
[15:50:02] rmeden: dekarl-work: that's one of the things JSON does
[15:50:06] rmeden: SD-JSON
[15:50:15] tgm4883: anyone here use fedora and/or and RPM based distro?
[15:50:27] stuartm: yes I do
[15:50:38] stuartm: use an RPM based distro, not fedora though
[15:51:17] tgm4883: stuartm: can you explain how these updates work? I'm looking at RPM fusion and they have 0.26 in the main repo and 0.27.3 in the -updates repo. Does it just automatically upgrade from 0.26 to 0.27 during a regular package update?
[15:51:36] stuartm: tgm4883: it would, yes
[15:51:38] tgm4883: I'm just trying to figure this out so I can accurately respond to this email
[15:51:44] tgm4883: stuartm: thats..... frightening
[15:52:07] stuartm: assuming the user has the -updates repo enabled, which on most(?) distros it would be
[15:52:35] tgm4883: super fun
[15:53:19] stuartm: I'd not judge all RPM distros on the basis of RPMFusion
[15:53:32] bill6502: since he's quoting lyrics, maybe the response to his "I have no idea if you have to make any changes to the setup with mythtv-setup after an upgrade" comment should be: Got Plenty O' Nuttin' from Porgy and Bess.
[15:53:40] tgm4883: stuartm: oh I'm not. I'm judging RGNewbury on what he said
[15:53:42] stuartm: RPMFusion is only used by Fedora, and I don't think it's even the official repo
[15:53:44] dekarl-work: how do the RPM distros get update? because its not from https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/commits/fixes/0.27/rpm
[15:54:14] tgm4883: bill6502: I actually am going with Third eye blind "I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend."
[15:54:52] jheizer: HAhaha
[15:55:14] stuartm: dekarl-work: I presume they all work manage their own spec files
[15:56:24] jpabq: I believe it is Richard Shaw that packages Myth up for Fedora.
[15:56:31] stuartm: not even five and I'm already typoing like I've been up all night
[15:59:24] ** stuarta prescribes stuartm beer/vodka/whiskey and a night on the couch **
[16:00:42] stuartm: all three and it would be a night in the hospital]
[16:01:40] dekarl-work: lol @the tivo comment, I bet the OzTivo crowd has something to add to that... Why a Tivo when you can also buy a ReplayTV? Oh http://wiki.xmltv.org/index.php/ReplayTV
[16:03:31] stuartm: the bit about tivo actually pissed me off, his expectation is that MythTV shouldn't be as easy to use as Tivo, it's not the expectation and goal of the MythTV developers
[16:04:13] stuarta: stuartm: i forgot to mention "delete as appropriate"
[16:04:45] stuartm: :)
[16:06:47] stuartm: oh ffs, my self signed cert for the WebFrontend was only valid for a month
[16:06:52] rmeden: dekarl-work: ReplayTV didn't shut down... now they provide the data for free
[16:09:43] stuarta: stuartm: doh
[16:10:33] dekarl-work: rmeden: I know, but IIRC the "no shutdown" information was last minute for paying customers
[16:10:49] rmeden: yup.. it was a lot of fun at teh time!
[16:11:03] rmeden: but we did have some working solutions...
[16:11:39] rmeden: Most of the SD-DD web hits are expired accounts. :(
[16:11:51] rmeden: I hope fail2ban stops them soon
[16:12:27] rmeden: at least one app has a bug where they don't back off, just retry... looking at the logs tribune sent us, something like 10k hits/hour!
[16:14:49] jheizer: yuck
[16:15:54] stuarta: ew, need to tarpit them
[16:16:29] stuartm: rmeden: not mythtv I take it?
[16:17:00] rmeden: nope
[16:17:09] rmeden: Mediaportal at least... of course it's self reported, so who knows
[16:17:32] stuartm: good, I might just get that night on the couch that stuarta prescribed then :)
[16:24:16] ** rmeden thinks about getting back to his day job... things are going smooth now **
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[16:32:19] stuartm: I've altered out user-agent as sent to SD to remove a superfluous version string
[16:33:54] stuartm: paul-h: thanks for back-porting
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[16:35:30] dekarl-work: hmm, I would have expectede 0.27 UPNP with VLC for iOS to work similar to how 0.28 worked with VLC for iOS until lately... https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=393
[16:41:37] gigem: At the risk of pouring gas on a fire that appears to have settled down, here is the perspective of one, semi-active, US developer on the termination of DD. Almost every time I've ventured into mythfilldatabase, I've quickly gotten lost and given up on what I'd hoped to do. As a result, I didn't feel competent enough to work on any rush replacement to DD, and as long as there was a viable, low-impact
[16:41:39] gigem: alternatives making progress (SD_DD), I wasn't going to get in the way. The JSON service and its new features has been known and available for quite some time. With no one sufficiently motivated to fix what wasn't broken, however, it was mostly ignored. Until today, various non-US developers have complained enough over the years about the DD support that it gave me the impression nothing short of a new,
[16:41:41] gigem: xmltv grabber would be acceptable to them, even if it meant giving up features.
[16:43:55] dekarl-work: I would have loved to see all the energy go into adding the features (what features??) to xmltv...
[16:45:30] dekarl-work: the only feature that I know might be lost when switching to xmltv is the lineup support
[16:46:27] rmeden: stuartm: version string in agent is nice.. let us know what version is hitting us
[16:46:37] gigem: I know some people would love the season/episode info ant I think it also has some artwork. The biggy for me is the ATSC/QAM tuning info which would make setup much easier for some users.
[16:47:10] stuartm: rmeden: the version is still there, I just removed the meaningless binary version string which isn't so useful
[16:48:12] rmeden: dekarl-work: I finished lineup support two days ago, but haven't had the courage to make it live, knowing Tribune was going to hit us... I focused on that.
[16:48:46] rmeden: dekarl-work: on lineup support in sd.. (multiple lineup support)
[16:48:53] rmeden: s/on/oh/
[16:48:54] stuartm: gigem: xmltv has always supported season/episode info, we in the UK and elsewhere already receive it through xmltv
[16:49:22] dekarl-work: gigem: xmltv has supported season/episode information for a long time, its MythTV that got the support only recently. And the artwork support is crap in both MythTV and XMLTV so its a perfect match :)
[16:49:37] stuartm: rmeden: any idea if the xmltv grabber will support api-config?
[16:50:04] stuartm: I've not had much motivation to work on support in MythTV as so few grabbers actually implemented it
[16:50:04] rmeden: startm: if it's done within the xmltv project of course.. (and at this point, no reason why it wouldn't)
[16:50:12] dekarl-work: stuartm, sorry, your api-config remarks have not made it into improvements yet :(
[16:50:31] rmeden: stuarm: I think most xmltv project grabbers support it now
[16:50:46] rmeden: (but I could be wrong.. I lead the project, I don't follow it :) )
[16:51:03] dekarl-work: but apiconfig is not up on a level where you can generate a GUI out of it :(
[16:51:06] stuartm: rmeden: ok that's changed in the last few months then, think there was just one when I last looked
[16:51:57] rmeden: the only thing I *USE* xmltv for is my simple tv_check report that runs weekly... and that's all scripted... no no GUI
[16:52:00] stuartm: dekarl-work: no, I remember raising some issues/recommendations about it ... what two, three years ago?
[16:52:33] dekarl-work: stuartm, rmeden: here's my management summary wrt apiconfig and lineup support. "Its not there yet"
[16:53:25] dekarl-work: apiconfig is on the level that you can replace the text interface with nicer text interface in a window
[16:54:10] dekarl-work: and we couldn't agree on the way forward for lineup support when the three of us were still actively working on it :(
[16:55:11] gigem: dekarl-work: I told you I wasn't competent. :)
[16:55:19] dekarl-work: that's why I was looking forward to get the services.mythtv.org to replace lineup support for at least DVB -> xmltv matching
[16:56:22] dekarl-work: maybe for the US/CA there could be callsign -> SD xmltv matching, too. I don't know
[16:57:55] dekarl-work: together with stuartm's comments towards the apiconfig we could achieve 100% automatic grabber configuration (thinking of a DVB setup now)
[17:00:47] dekarl-work: got to run, see you later
[17:00:50] stuartm: we would never advocate xmltv for US users if it meant giving up data, the format was devised and expanded to provide everything that DD provided – rmeden saw to that when he wrote the original DD grabber for xmltv
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[17:01:40] ** rmeden heading back to work myself **
[17:01:41] stuartm: but because it's not a static format, it's also been expanded to support the increasing range of metadata provided by guide sources all over the world
[17:04:25] stuartm: so it has included things like Season and Episode information for as long as I've been a MythTV user, and with the weight of all MythTV users behind it, it can only improve
[17:10:51] stuartm: rmeden: which data provided by the JSON feed isn't yet supported by xmltv?
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[17:31:25] paul-h: Just got an email from Gary saying I should have bumped the ABI version for https://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/commit/?id=6b3984106b Is that really required in this case?
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[17:32:26] paul-h: It does add a new public function but it's only used in DataDirectProcessor
[17:40:04] stuartm: paul-h: technically it is required because inserting new members changes the order the symbols appear in the compiled lib, so that anything which links mythtv/libs/libmythtv/datadirect.h but which isn't rebuilt would be broken
[17:41:00] paul-h: OK thanks I'll bump it to be safe
[17:41:07] stuartm: for most users it's unlikely that libmythtv would get rebuilt but mythfilldatabase would not, and altering the binary version doesn't prevent it happening anyway
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[17:43:03] rmeden: stuartm: there are lots of things in the JSON feed without a place in XMLTV... lots of image stuff, online viewing URLs, probably a whole lot more... I haven't looked into it.
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[17:46:04] paul-h: The new Atlas feed also has all those plus a lot more so that grabber could use them as well
[17:46:32] paul-h: or the updated RT grabber
[17:46:50] stuartm: rmeden: thanks, just wanted to know whether we were talking about some bits of data that MythTV was never going to use or stuff that was actually useful :)
[17:49:30] stuartm: in theory at least an xmltv grabber for SD could be released before support for the additional markup was finalised? I don't think the JSON grabber inserted any of that data into MythTV, so from a MythTV users perspective they'd provide the same levels of data
[17:57:15] rmeden: stuartm: of course... the main thing I try to accomplish with XMLTV project is "do no harm".. apps should ignore tags they don't know what to do with.
[17:58:26] stuartm: rmeden: indeed, that's the whole philosophy of xml
[17:58:33] rmeden: more so than other projects XMLTV is an "itch to scratch" project... so far a few people have talked about a grabber for sd-json, but no one has stepped up. I have no itch. I figured there would be more bang for the buck with sd-dd. (and it appears I was right)
[17:59:57] stuartm: so no-one is yet working on an xmltv grabber?
[18:01:46] rmeden: a few folks have talked about it, but don't know how much effort has been put into it.
[18:02:30] rmeden: It was actually much harder a few months ago.... Windows XMLTV was stuck on a very old version, which caused adding new modules to be difficult. That was another thing I fixed.
[18:03:08] rmeden: It's important for a SD-JSON grabber because it will need an internal DB to be effeciant
[18:03:22] rmeden: (very old version of Perl)
[18:06:19] jheizer: I would like to say I will do it, but between time constraints and the longest perl program I have every written was probably 50 lines, I am still in the research/dreaming phase.
[18:06:45] jheizer: Now if you wanted a .Net program to do it... :p
[18:08:01] rmeden: you can write a .Net program for it, we could link to it at XMLTV.ORG, but just not add it to the XMLTV SF project
[18:08:26] rmeden: Of course that wouldn't help MythTV folk
[18:08:45] jheizer: yeah I saw how well that went over with mobilemyth
[18:09:59] jheizer: Which I really need to complete the outstanding release for as well. Hit come config problem with apache/mono and it won't run under linux. Otherwise I finished it 3 months ago.
[18:15:02] paul-h: stuartm: read what Captain_Murdoch said on the developers list first email from him in the 'Plan of action for Schedules Direct / TMS DataDirect service going away' thread
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[18:16:56] stuartm: paul-h: thanks for that reminder, so much has been said lately that I'm having trouble keeping it all straight in my mind
[18:17:37] paul-h: Yeah I know how you feel
[18:17:39] stuartm: I don't want to be telling users that someone is working on the xmltv grabber only for that to turn out not to be the case two weeks from now
[18:21:20] rmeden: stuartm, best plast to work that out is the xmltv-devel mailing list.. so far no posts
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[18:21:41] rmeden: I'll remind folks to post there next time someone says they're thinking about it
[18:23:55] Captain_Murdoch: I have a new Perl module working to interface with the SD JSON API and was starting to use that module in another set of Perl routines to retrieve and locally cache that data in a SQLite DB. Once that was working, then I was going to bolt on the XMLTV interface pieces.
[18:24:54] Captain_Murdoch: haven't touched it in a week or so since SD-DD was working and it hasn't been as high priority, but all the edit windows are still open on my desktop, including SQL schema, JSON API docs on SD site, etc..
[18:26:07] Captain_Murdoch: Gary B and also contacted me mtdean have also contacted me privately about it since Gary was starting to work on one.
[18:26:29] Captain_Murdoch: s/also contacted me mtdean/mtdean also contacted me/  :)
[18:26:37] Captain_Murdoch: yoda am I
[18:31:00] stuartm: we should give Gary commit access already
[18:31:22] ** jheizer finds he is waaay behind. **
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[19:47:27] jpabq: stuartm: I agree with commit access for Gary.
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[19:57:01] stuarta: evening
[20:08:35] stuartm: g'evening
[20:10:46] stuarta: you had better be on the couch. i am
[20:12:45] ** stuartm looks sheepish **
[20:13:00] stuartm: stepping away now
[20:13:33] sheedy-away (sheedy-away!sheedy@gateway/shell/kde/x-otynucvvmsajlvla) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:13:36] ** stuarta shoos stuartm away for some R & R **
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[20:18:45] stuarta: now are you on the couch?
[20:20:03] stuartm_: Até
[20:20:21] stuartm_: Bah, aye
[20:21:06] stuarta: :)
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[20:22:56] stuartm_couch: Beer in hand, the walking dead on the TV
[20:23:15] jheizer: Sounds like a proper end to this day.
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[20:32:26] stuarta: stuartm_couch: excellent
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[20:52:37] stuarta: i really shouldn't fiddle. broke forums networking. fixing atm
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[20:56:36] dekarl: Roklobsta: aye, _au should join with _fi :)
[20:56:41] stuartm_couch: What was the reason for the reduced ssl score with the new server? Anything we can fix?
[20:57:11] Roklobsta: extend shepherd for .fi
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[21:03:10] dekarl: Roklobsta: that's the problem. everyone is just scratching their personal itch and not moving one inch further... so Stefan is working on _fi, someone else if working on _au and both are duplicating work, because NIH
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[21:04:22] stuartm_: herding cats
[21:18:48] dekarl is now known as dekarl-uber-elit
[21:18:57] dekarl-uber-elit is now known as dekarl-uberelite
[21:19:04] ** dekarl-uberelite can be elite, too **
[21:19:15] dekarl-uberelite: wtf
[21:19:18] dekarl-uberelite is now known as dekarl
[21:21:56] gigem: Did one of you have warpme taken out? :) He was helping test some scheduler changes, but his email has been undeliverable for 5 days now.
[21:23:27] stuartm_: Thought I saw him reply to a ticket earlier tonight
[21:23:33] paul-h: He just replied to one of my tickets so he's still about
[21:25:37] gigem: Okay, I'll try to send the email again. Thanks.
[21:25:50] paul-h: Sometimes if you ping him on here he sometimes appears – he must read the logs
[21:25:52] stuartm_: He just opened #12302
[21:25:52] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12302 **
[21:27:21] stuartm_: I'd double check his email address against the one used in that ticket
[21:27:40] gigem: The email in the ticket matches what I have, so maybe it's working now. Of course the undeliverable notes came from my ISPs mails servers, so it could be a locl problem.
[21:29:46] dekarl: people should simply not post to mailing lists when they have been drinking... that bike shed just wastes lots of ressources
[21:30:42] stuartm_: :(
[21:30:44] tgm4883: dekarl: unfortunately this is one of the advantages a forum has over a mailing list. You can lock a thread with a reason and usually another doesn't pop up about the same issue
[21:31:16] dekarl: stuartm, UK users are lazy bums, too, according to my experience with atlas ;)
[21:31:31] dekarl: I'm a lazy bum, too, according to my commit history :D
[21:33:16] ** stuartm_ won't ever interact with users again **
[21:39:08] stuartm_ (stuartm_!~stuartm@mythtv/developer/stuartm) has quit ()
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[21:45:45] Roklobsta (Roklobsta!~Roklobsta@ppp118-209-255-227.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net) has joined #mythtv
[21:46:23] Roklobsta: argh heads up, MFE still has threads at 100% while doing nothing.
[21:47:35] Roklobsta: All I can suggest is set your idle timer to 0, run MFE, wait 90mins, maybe play something then have a look at CPU use.
[21:50:01] Roklobsta: 2 threads each with 20h runtime.
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[22:10:04] paul-h: I know I've said it before but here's a big stick if I try to be helpful on the users list again just hit me with it
[22:12:20] paul-h:
[22:12:22] stuartm: I should never have resubscribed
[22:13:05] stuartm: paul-h: ah well some have been using MythTV for years, shouldn't they get more than the newbies?
[22:13:11] jheizer: I only speak up in the big things and usually get in trouble
[22:14:12] paul-h: I could offer to give them their money back that usually ruffles a few feathers :)
[22:26:17] paul-h: stuarta: I think the forums gone down again
[22:26:17] stuartm: paul-h: I've sent him a text message, but I think he's gone to bed
[22:26:17] stuartm: also looks like alcor is down
[22:26:17] stuartm: and pastebin.com
[22:26:17] stuartm: not sure there is any connection between those
[22:26:17] moparisthebest (moparisthebest!~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/moparisthebest) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[22:29:41] bill6502: pastebin.com and alcor.com are OK from the States
[22:31:22] stuartm: mythtv.org , alcor is just the server's name not a domain name
[22:31:51] stuartm: ah, it's loading now, as is pastebin.com, guessing I'm seeing network issues
[22:35:14] paul-h (paul-h!~Paul@176.25.167.220) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[23:07:36] jafa3 (jafa3!~jafa@2001:470:80ca:2000:bf:2aa3:2909:1f61) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[23:45:47] rmeden: howdy all.. checking in.. looks like the sky hasn't fallen with Tribune sending folks to sd-dd.
[23:46:59] jnylen (jnylen!~jnylen@unaffiliated/jnylen) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0)

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