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Wednesday, October 15th, 2014, 00:25 UTC
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[00:28:16] tgm4883: hmm, so I'm aware of issues with the Qt themepainter that are resolved when Using OpenGL, but now I've run into an issue with my theme that it's broken on openGL themepainter, but not broken on Qt :/
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[00:31:27] tgm4883: whats the proper debug options to see theme issues?
[00:35:32] tgm4883: -v gui brings up some, but I don't see anything wrong :/
[00:38:41] tgm4883: What would cause this when using the opengl themepainter and show correctly when using the Qt themepainter
[00:39:42] tgm4883: that should be filled with items, if I move between items I can briefly see a flicker of all the items. Rarely when I move to an item all of them will show up (although it's random and not specific to selecting a particular item)
[00:43:31] tgm4883: These are the types of error messages I get in the frontend log
[00:43:45] tgm4883: although those aren't technically errors
[01:01:37] tgm4883: looks like it has something to do with <area> and <buttonarea> in a buttonlist
[01:26:45] tgm4883: fixed it. Apparently I should leave the <area> the regular size and just hang the <buttonarea> over the edge
[01:26:55] tgm4883: I wonder if that is a bug somewhere or working as designed...
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[01:39:26] gigem: skd5aner: What are you trying to look for? I'm sure you're looking for something more complicated than plain 'git log', right? If you want to see why a line of code is the way it is, run 'git annotate <file>' and find the line in question. When you find it, the beginning of the line will have the commit ID, time of commit and person who committed it.
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[09:59:46] stuartm: gigem: I mentioned this one earlier, requested more info from the submitter which has since been provided, but I don't know enough about how it's supposed to work to help –
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[14:53:27] gigem: stuartm: Like before, I tried both '' and \' with mythweb and mythfrontend and all four combinations work as expected for me. Tell him to use '' instead of \' and see if that works for him.
[14:56:47] stuartm: done
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[15:26:16] dekarl: any idea why vlc can play this but our iptvrecorder can't record this?
[15:36:43] stuartm: I'd look at the url and whether it's being accurately parsed, there's a lot to trip over in that particular url
[15:40:59] stuarta: why does that give me a sudden urge to say "arf" like a seal....
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[15:41:47] stuartm: note that it also includes the user agent of the browser than initially requested the url, wonder what useragent VLC uses to actually fetch the stream, does it adopt the one from the url (unlikely but ...)
[15:49:42] stuartm: dekarl: it would be the hls recorder for that one no?
[15:49:50] stuartm: although it's not actually HLS either
[15:50:30] stuartm: well no chunking
[16:04:52] dekarl: doh, its not? I thought it was HLS
[16:05:30] dekarl: VLC send its own VLC user agent and the server parrots the VLC useragent back
[16:05:42] dekarl: so I wonder if we do send a browser user agent at some place?
[16:06:59] dekarl: Oh the joy of DST... currently 14 days is 13*24 + 25 hours... looks like there are some request limits with 14*24 in place...
[16:07:40] stuartm: dekarl: well I suppose it is HLS, just that I'm used to seeing chunked HLS not a single stream like that
[16:26:58] stuartm: dekarl: I take it all back, that is HLS, ignore me
[16:27:05] stuartm: but it's definitely not IPTV
[16:28:16] stuartm: out of interest, what happens when you point mythavtest at the original URL?
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[17:21:12] dekarl: stuartm, it works (although via X forwarding its not that nice of an experience)
[17:21:35] dekarl: but so do OTT http streams (should, untested)
[17:23:14] dekarl: not sure what you mean with "not chunked HLS but a single stream". In my log we try to download segment 1 of three and it has a segment number in the URL. plain MPEG2-TS stream over http doesn't work, but we have a patch sitting in trac
[17:28:45] dekarl: tested it, OTT streams work, too. mythavtest -geometry 384x240
[17:45:14] stuartm: dekarl: I was doing two things at the same time and didn't actually notice that I needed to scroll down to see the other chunks ...
[17:47:10] stuartm: you're right that there are three 10 second chunks
[17:48:27] stuartm: and they are using the 'wowza streaming engine'
[17:51:06] dekarl: it appears like they use a combination of wowza and flashstream
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[19:06:30] Roklobsta: has anything much changed in the code settng up DVBT tuners for recording between 0.27 and 0.28?
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[19:18:00] stuartm: nothing I can think of
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[19:22:42] stuartm: does someone want to announce 0.27.4 on the -users mailing list if it hasn't already been picked up by someone? You can point people at for now
[19:29:07] stuartm: tgm4883: I will backport to 0.26, but I'll let them sweat for a little first
[19:29:40] tgm4883: stuartm: I'm ok with not going to 0.26, since we aren't building for 0.25 anymore and that is where more users are
[19:30:26] stuartm: tgm4883: is 0.26 or 0.25 the version in the standard repo?
[19:34:43] tgm4883: 0.27 is in 14.04
[19:34:57] tgm4883: 0.25 is in 12.04 I believe
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[19:46:23] stuartm: ok, so those 0.25 users are most likely those still running 12.04 without having enabled the PPAs
[19:46:44] tgm4883: yep
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[19:57:56] stuartm: . . . oodle-attack
[19:58:04] stuartm: long live TLS 1.2
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[20:42:09] dekarl: is that something for 0.27.4? . . . 4b21bcf96e76
[20:44:11] stuartm: dekarl: bit late
[20:44:33] dekarl: yeah, just following up in -users... will make it into 0.27.5 then
[20:44:37] stuartm: you can get it in for 0.27.5 if you hurry
[20:44:45] stuartm: ;)
[20:44:54] dekarl: its been broken for 18 months now, so it won't hurt to wait another month
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[20:49:13] skd5aner: gigem: thanks. I'm trying to reverse engineer some previous commits to figure out how to extend the video library filter so I can filter on rating
[20:50:29] skd5aner: gigem: I played around a little yesterday, and was able to get far enough to determine that I'd have to make some changes to metadata.cpp too make it work correctly. I'm not really a developer, but I'm willing to experiement to see if I can get it to work
[20:55:37] stuartm: can someone subscribed to the -users list please stomp on the talk of the JSON grabber, it screws with the mythtv database and as such WILL break and prevent people upgrading to newer versions of MythTV
[20:55:47] stuartm: (even if I have to make it happen)
[20:56:40] skd5aner: dumb question (because I'm purposely ignoring most of this SD news), what does the JSON grabber do that makes it attractive enough for people to start using?
[20:59:54] jheizer_: Differential updates vs full refresh each time.
[20:59:59] jheizer_: That's about it.
[21:00:33] jheizer_: Oh, and that data feed supports a lot of the world, vs the old way is still US only.
[21:00:41] jheizer_: (US guy so I forgot that part)
[21:02:29] paul-h: seems RG Newbury, a director of SD, is recommending it now
[21:02:50] paul-h: what a shambles :(
[21:04:42] jheizer_: Agreed. They need the SD-DD existing way to be 100% then can start talking diff/XMLTV/whatever. I been using the "legacy" way on their servers for 2 weeks or so now with no problems except the first day.
[21:04:52] jheizer_: But they have been fixing 1–2 issues per day still.
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[21:18:31] paul-h: Yeah I hope backporting it to fixes so soon wont backfire on us – I'm hearing there are still a few teething problems
[21:19:53] jheizer_: The one real problem still is that their web interface does not update the SD-DD version, only the tribune servers.
[21:20:13] jheizer_: So if you make any lineup changes you have to tell them. Though they have said they are working on it.
[21:21:15] paul-h: Yeah I saw that one on the users list
[21:22:39] stuartm: paul-h: I hope so too, but at least those issues are on the SD end of things, I was concerned about the perception that we weren't doing anything about it which would only increase the number of users turning to the json grabber
[21:22:49] stuartm: and we really don't want people using that
[21:26:47] paul-h: stuartm: so the main problem with it is it manipulates the DB directly which is likely to break if the schema changes?
[21:27:30] jheizer_: just posted on -users "While I agree (as I think most people do) that the best way is to move
[21:27:30] jheizer_: forward is using the JSON service"
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[21:27:46] jheizer: Not I, another person did.
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[21:29:38] tgm4883: that would be me, I thought that was the general consensus was that moving to JSON was the end goal
[21:30:24] stuartm: paul-h: it actually alters the schema as well
[21:31:18] tgm4883: jheizer: I tried not to discuss that too much, but IIRC the general thought was moving to XMLTV to pull the JSON feed was a better because A) the JSON feed is updated more frequently, and B) it allows a single mythtv code base for updating (rather than the xmltv stuff that is available now and also the code for schedules direct)
[21:31:46] stuartm: paul-h: but besides that it removes our ability to sanity check the incoming data, apply formatting changes if required and our ability to act upon that data at the point of insertion
[21:32:05] jheizer: tgm4883, my fear is people will take it as use the JSON grabber right now.
[21:32:57] tgm4883: jheizer: I suppose it's possible to be read that way, if you would like to respond to my email with the other info on the JSON stuff that might make more sense that me responding to myself
[21:33:19] tgm4883: IIRC, there is an RFC to extend XMLTV to support more stuff, and a JSON XMLTV grabber is in the works
[21:33:28] jheizer: I was before you talked here.
[21:34:05] jheizer: I mean I am just a lonely user, but people are getting all worked up over this in 10 threads over something that doesn't require it IMO now that the SD-DD service it online.
[21:34:16] stuartm: paul-h: dekarl actually looked through the code, whereas I'm getting sucked into this despite hoping that some US devs would speak up and deal with it
[21:34:18] tgm4883: jheizer: feel free to ping me at any time, I'm in irccloud, so I'll get the messages on my phone
[21:34:24] jheizer: The time and thought needs to go into making sure that is 100% before the time limit it up.
[21:34:40] tgm4883: stuartm: to be fair, I tried to deal with it. I just don't have upload rights :P
[21:35:01] stuartm: tgm4883: that's true, and it is appreciated
[21:35:27] tgm4883: jheizer: I also used it as an excuse to drop the 90% stat, because I love doing that ;)
[21:35:40] stuartm: tgm4883: and we will get those rights sorted out eventually :)
[21:35:56] tgm4883: well I can read the mailing list, and that is all that matters
[21:36:20] tgm4883: I probably don't need upload rights until I can submit a few patches for inclusion first
[21:36:44] stuartm: << Well I've done it now, waded in right up to my neck, let's just hope I don't drown
[21:36:47] tgm4883: stuartm: although it would be nice to be able to add a themes repo on github, I don't do that enough to bother asking for those rights
[21:37:02] stuartm: tgm4883: we've got one
[21:37:41] stuartm:
[21:37:50] jheizer: Replied, don't take any of it personal tgm4883 if it sounds that way. Wrote most of it before you talked here and just trying to get everyone to cool off.
[21:38:09] tgm4883: stuartm: yea, I mean I'm probably going to do a Mythbuntu-classic theme that is just me branching the old theme and making it available for download
[21:38:21] stuartm: tgm4883: or did you mean that you'd like the ability to add new repos there?
[21:38:40] tgm4883: stuartm: also, I am still disappointed we aren't calling it something like "GuidedataBleed"
[21:43:02] tgm4883: stuartm: thanks
[21:43:46] stuartm: tgm4883: actually, although I've given you access there, don't use it!
[21:43:52] stuartm: the packaging repo
[21:44:09] stuartm: seems that's one of the repos we don't access directly after all
[21:44:51] stuartm: well, the github one is just a mirror, if you commit there the changes may end up getting lost or breaking the mirror
[21:45:12] tgm4883: right, it's mirrored off alcor right?
[21:45:13] stuartm: I'll ask stuarta to set you up with access to the 'master' repo
[21:45:17] stuartm: tgm4883: yes
[21:45:20] tgm4883: ok
[21:45:27] tgm4883: but don't use the packaging one either?
[21:46:11] stuartm: don't make any changes via github to the MythTV/ repos, but you can do what you like in the MythTV-Themes/ repos
[21:46:18] tgm4883: ah ok, will do
[21:46:39] stuartm: we like to keep things simple :p
[21:47:20] stuartm: fwiw, we will be moving back to using github exclusively at some point in the near future
[21:48:07] stuartm: when we first started out there they had a lot of downtime, alcor was more stable so we moved back there
[21:57:15] ** stuartm sighs **
[21:59:08] stuartm: and when "blocking users from using their systems the way they want?" causes bugs for those same users, are they going to recognise that they caused those same issues themselves? Or are they going to come to the MythTV developers looking for help, expecting us to help them clean up their mess?
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[22:05:04] tgm4883: stuartm: can we add something to the logs that say "schema modified by unsupported process" then just tell those users to bugger off
[22:05:18] tgm4883: I kid, but only a little bit
[22:10:31] jheizer: Reported to the other ZOMG guy.
[22:10:40] jheizer: Geez people.
[22:10:48] jheizer: *Replied
[22:11:21] dekarl: oh my, everyone[tm] confuses all the bits and pieces... the php JSON grabber is a test client to enable development of the server... and RobertK agreed to add a schema update to undo the fiddling about with our schema.
[22:11:30] tgm4883: jheizer: "Honestly I'm kinda surprised that people want to jump to a new JSON grabber written by a non-mythtv dev that has only been through limited testing for a few weeks."
[22:11:46] jheizer: Yeah I just got your reply. Too slow, I was.
[22:12:39] jheizer: I'm currently stuck in some work hell so I think I am taking my aggression out on them. :)
[22:14:45] sheedy-away (sheedy-away!sheedy@gateway/shell/kde/x-kyhhsnyzwxbncnao) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:14:49] dekarl: may I suggest to concentrate the announcements on the positive "just update and everything will be good[tm]" side of things and not get to much into the details how we ended up there
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[22:15:38] dekarl: then we can move our attention to the next pair of countries that are coming up with fiddling about the guide server (UK/IE)
[22:20:41] dekarl: Just as a reminder for the non-UK users, the old UK/IE guide service is being deprecated on Nov 1st, too. (But it is only scheduled to be taken offline in January.) The new interface is a JSON web service, too. There is already a new xmltv grabber available for that JSON service.
[22:21:10] dekarl: So rejoice, its not just you
[22:28:37] stuartm: is Ireland covered by the Atlas feed as well? Or is it just Northern Ireland?
[22:32:08] dekarl: they even cover italy, though I have no idea how you can access that data ;)
[22:35:43] dekarl: ahh, found a reference... open pick region Repulic of Ireland in the widget to get RTÉ channels etc.
[22:36:28] stuartm: seems I went too far by suggesting that we'd block the grabber
[22:42:23] dekarl: I'd just concentrate on the positive things
[22:43:15] jheizer: The fear train has momentum.
[22:43:35] stuartm: dropped that line from the news posting in the hope that it will douse the flames
[22:45:02] stuartm: given that most of the active mythtv devs are NOT americans, there's a very real threat that we'll all get so seriously pissed off with their tantrums and walk – leaving MythTV dead in the water
[22:45:12] dekarl: I'd remove everything about the "unofficial grabber" which basically is a test / development tool.
[22:46:06] jheizer: Everyone just has that in their mind as it was presented to the lists first and as the only solution.
[22:46:22] dekarl: Trying not to pour oil into the fire. Thinking all the drama will just drive new contributors away. We could end up like wikipedia where no one wants to go near anymore (over here at least)
[22:47:24] stuartm: dekarl: maybe I will, but I fear without stating our official position that users will just listen to the likes of RG Newbury, a Schedules Direct staff member who is telling everyone to use that grabber
[22:50:24] dekarl: even tv_grab_au / Shepherd steered into the direction of conforming to the xmltv API instead of hacking around our mythtv database. (they still fiddle with it to achive autoconfiguration, which is an area where the xmltv interface is still lacking)
[22:50:52] stuartm: it took some persuasion, but yes, they slowly came around
[22:51:29] stuartm: I had to plaster the wiki and mailing lists with warnings about the use of Shepherd though ;)
[22:52:00] stuartm: after I did that they actually bothered to talk to me
[22:52:43] stuartm: this could have all gone so differently if SD had worked with us from the beginning
[22:53:12] stuartm: or maybe more accurately, if they hadn't ignored us in the beginning
[22:54:13] stuartm: sphery did fight for an xmltv solution over at SD, seems no-one paid attention
[22:59:55] ** dekarl wanders off to bed. Looks like my hacking time tonight mostly went into drama... **
[23:05:55] stuartm: aye, achieved f'all of value tonight, had wanted to get a couple of things finished on the WebFrontend
[23:06:20] paul-h: stuartm: "given that most of the active mythtv devs are NOT americans, there's a very real threat that we'll all get so seriously pissed off with their tantrums and walk – leaving MythTV dead in the water" – my thoughts exactly
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