MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

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Monday, October 13th, 2014, 00:03 UTC
[00:03:35] rmeden: tgm4883 if you changed your lineup on the SD site, I need to reset your account on sd-dd... I don't have it syncing changes yet.
[00:03:43] rmeden: what's your sd username?
[00:04:49] tgm4883: rmeden: I believe it's thomas@mashos.com . but I haven't changed my lineup in like a year
[00:05:33] rmeden: oh, I thought you said you did
[00:06:57] rmeden: you have a bunch of excluded stations.. should I just blow away all excludes, or just dleete everything so it resyncs with TMS?
[00:09:07] rmeden: tgm4883 I show AMC (Pacific) and AMC HD (Pacific) on your exclude list.
[00:09:44] tgm4883: Yea, but why am I getting those from tms then?
[00:10:54] rmeden: could be an error on Tribune's part.. I've seen that many times
[00:11:01] tgm4883: Hmm
[00:11:02] rmeden: I'll turn them on
[00:11:29] tgm4883: So should I enable those 8 channels and have you resync
[00:11:57] rmeden: no, let me just do it from here
[00:12:13] tgm4883: OK
[00:12:27] rmeden: guess it doesn't hurt to do it on SD too come to think of it
[00:12:44] rmeden: do you want SD, HD or both?
[00:12:52] tgm4883: Just hd
[00:12:58] tgm4883: I'm a quality snob
[00:13:22] rmeden: ok, go for a download
[00:13:33] rmeden: I also turned on tracing so I can see what's in yoru lineup
[00:14:03] rmeden: Tribune really has had quite a few issues with their custom lineups... that's why everyone does the "re-add lineup" thing and hope it fixes it.
[00:14:25] tgm4883: running now
[00:15:00] rmeden: saw the get times call, still not seeing the data yet
[00:15:24] rmeden: maybe apache is cachiing the program, so it didn't see the trace setting
[00:15:31] tgm4883: hmm, looks like it's downloaded it
[00:15:35] tgm4883: still running though
[00:15:59] rmeden: ah there we go 17M
[00:16:33] rmeden: AMCPHD is there now
[00:17:07] tgm4883: yea looks like that worked, I've got to clear up some of my channels as I've got some dupes now
[00:17:25] rmeden: please wait until after nov 1 at this point :)
[00:17:34] tgm4883: I mean in mythtv :)
[00:17:40] rmeden: or at least until I get the lineup changes propigating.
[00:17:52] rmeden: feel free to remove as much as you want from SD too... save me download bytes :)
[00:17:52] tgm4883: let me check if there is anything else I need right now
[00:18:23] tgm4883: hmm, I think I'm going to need HDTV fixed
[00:18:31] tgm4883: let me look at my schedules
[00:18:44] rmeden: the AMC channel is HD
[00:18:56] tgm4883: err, I mean HGTV
[00:18:57] rmeden: AMC Pacific HD
[00:19:22] tgm4883: 767
[00:19:37] rmeden: tell you what, go edit your lineup at SD, I"ll blow away the config so the next time you download data from sd-dd it will resync
[00:19:44] tgm4883: ok will do
[00:20:29] rmeden: about to go pick up my daughter.. give it say 5 minutes after the edit lineup then try the download again. back in about 45 min
[00:21:23] tgm4883: ok thanks
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[00:47:26] tgm4883: rmeden: so I thought you added AMC on my SD, so I didn't add it, I'm not getting the data for that now. So since I need you to wipe that again I went ahead and went through all my channels and only listed the ones that I know we either record stuff off of or would potentially watch stuff on. I've narrowed it down to about 40 channels, can I get you to wipe
[00:47:27] tgm4883: mine again so it will resync?
[00:49:30] tgm4883: that should save a small amount of data I think
[00:50:08] tgm4883: I'll do a bit of a writeup when we do the blog post about the nov 1st change. Have people go through theirs and clear out channels they don't sue
[00:50:11] tgm4883: use*
[00:59:10] rmeden: tgm4883 wiped
[01:00:12] rmeden: I plan on working on the lineup management API again tonight... this weekend has been too busy with family and day-job stuff
[01:13:41] bill6502: tgm4883: FYI, there's a MythTV Wiki here: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Schedules_Direct_Replacement_Service for MythTV users should do. And Robert's been kind enough to keep all open issues on the SD forum here: http://forums.schedulesdirect.org/viewtopic.p . . . 10a966f9c73a . The goal being not to duplicate information in either place. If you'd like me to add to the MythTV Wiki, I'd be glad to.
[01:16:06] bill6502: There's another addition to the MythTV Wiki coming with instructions on how to add RPZ info for users running their own nameservers. It's not for the feint of heart, but it's more reliable than the /etc/hosts solution. It's likely for a small set of users.
[01:18:39] tgm4883: bill6502: I'll have to do a blog post on Mythbuntu.org. There are too many users that won't be looking on the mythtv wiki for this info
[01:18:48] tgm4883: I can refer back to the wiki though
[01:20:31] bill6502: that would be great, if I can add anything that makes it more valuable let me know. I was trying to keep it short and simple.
[01:26:02] bill6502: rmeden: not sure you saw my response here: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/577621#577621 , but I'm thinking it's similar to what just you fixed for tgm4883. if so, it's the only open issue on the (massive) SD testing thread that I'm aware of.
[01:41:34] rmeden: bill6502: I just searched what I sent him, and I do see that episode id in what I sent him
[01:43:26] rmeden: hmmm I don't see Madam though, let me look deeper
[01:44:19] rmeden: oops. typo on grep. confirmed it's in the file I sent
[01:44:31] rmeden: station-id 48971
[01:46:36] bill6502: thanks, I'll see if I can cook up some other way for him to verify what's in his DB.
[01:50:47] bill6502: is station-id = xmltvid? I think I need to relate it to his MythTV source which I believe = SD's lineup.
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[02:22:17] rmeden: I think that's what you guys call it.. but it's really not xmltv
[02:22:33] rmeden: xmlid or station_id is a better term
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[08:12:03] stuarta: something weird going on with the OSCP stapling on the forum
[08:16:39] stuarta: just generally something weird :(
[08:19:17] dekarl: stuartm, doh now I see which list of devs you were talking the other day... and I was wondering why I didn't see any changes at https://code.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/WhosWho
[08:21:36] dekarl: btw, I like the usability notes on your user page, e.g. "watch rest of the live tv buffer, then stop" option
[08:32:11] stuarta: meh, i have 4 pages of unread forum posts to process
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[09:26:51] stuartm: dekarl: I'd actually forgotten about that
[09:27:37] stuartm: haven't updated that list (can two items be called a list?) for 4 years!
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[09:46:52] Roklobsta: do you guys actually watch any TV?
[09:48:11] stuartm: a stupid amount, when I first started using MythTV the amount I watched went down, I was able to record only the stuff I was actually interested in and no longer sat watching the rubbish in between
[09:48:35] stuartm: these days the number of things I record has increased to the point where I can't keep up with it all
[09:50:14] stuarta: heh
[09:50:20] stuarta: just buy more storage
[09:50:29] Roklobsta: off satellit eor freetoair?
[09:50:34] stuarta: both for me
[09:50:35] stuartm: both
[09:50:52] Roklobsta: how many satellite tuners do you have?
[09:50:59] stuarta: 2
[09:51:21] Roklobsta: isn't there a rule in the usa STB's have to have a firewire output?
[10:07:41] stuartm: think that used to be the case for cable boxes, I don't know if it's still true, stuarta and I are in the UK
[10:17:46] Roklobsta: ok
[10:17:58] Roklobsta: you watch all that sky gumph
[10:23:41] stuarta: not if we can help it :-p
[10:38:52] stuartm: actually no, we watch Freesat
[10:40:53] stuarta: much better
[10:47:06] stuartm: basically all the good bits of Sky without the £££
[11:01:04] stuartm: which incidentally has recently become Freesat's new marketing slogan :)
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[13:31:44] Seeker`: stuarta: how much storage do you have?
[13:32:31] Seeker`: I just filled up my 8TB. Need to upgrade to 4TB drives, but at £130 each...
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[13:34:02] stuarta: less than that
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[13:34:07] stuarta: 2.75Gb
[13:34:37] Seeker`: stuarta: TB I assume?
[13:35:13] stuarta: er, yes 2.75Tb
[13:45:42] Seeker`: just for recorded programs? Or other media too?
[13:46:21] stuarta: there's a handful of videos in there
[13:47:06] Seeker`: I suppose I could go through and actually strip out the adverts from a couple of thousand of recordings
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[14:02:35] stuartm: are these recordings you've yet to watch, or stuff you've watched but are keeping around in the possibly doubtful chance that you'll want to watch then all again?
[14:02:51] Seeker`: stuartm: the latter.
[14:04:06] Seeker`: some of the stuff my wife re-watches though
[14:04:36] stuarta: you would be surprised how much space is saved by removing ads and transcoding them
[14:04:51] stuarta: for me it's often 50%
[14:04:53] stuarta: or more
[14:06:32] stuartm: can depend on the channel, just stripping the AD audio track and subtitles on BBC recordings without actually cutting any video can reduce the filesize by as much as 20–30%
[14:08:12] stuartm: which is often more than removing the adverts on other channels, strange but true
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[14:08:55] jheizer: Wow, that is a lot especially for lossless.
[14:09:36] stuarta: surprising isn't it
[14:10:01] stuarta: dekarl: it would be an interesting project to create software based SAT>IP server
[14:10:07] jheizer: I just added a second array 2x my previous as I was tired of always running low. Mpeg2 is my killer, but too much work to transcode everything.
[14:10:28] stuarta: storage is (relatively) cheap
[14:10:36] stuarta: compared to the time and effort to transcode stuff
[14:10:51] jheizer: crappy part was buying waaay to much since zfs can't add a single drive at a time over time.
[14:11:19] stuarta: dekarl: i'd also love to try to turn mythtv backend into a sat>ip server
[14:11:46] stuarta: tho i dunno if that's worth the trouble
[14:13:50] stuartm: just to prove it, found a film from BBC 2 which was 2.92GB (closest to 3GB I could find at short notice), lossless transcoded it with no cutlist
[14:13:53] stuartm: JobQueue: Transcode Starting for "Before Sunrise": Autodetect (2.9 GB)
[14:13:58] stuartm: JobQueue: Transcode Finished: "Before Sunrise": Autodetect (2.0 GB)
[14:14:35] stuarta: which makes the definition of "lossless" quite interesting ;-)
[14:15:05] jheizer: hahaha
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[14:15:36] stuartm: well yes, assuming that it's actually been re-encoding all these years ;)
[14:16:05] stuartm: Those extra streams, which also includes MHEG (can't forget that), add up to a significant amount
[14:17:57] stuartm: stuarta: we should perhaps look at stripping mheg streams when recording, but not for live tv
[14:18:16] stuarta: stuartm: there's already an option for that
[14:18:21] stuarta: manual, granted
[14:18:23] stuartm: huh, nevermind, just remembered we're aleady supposed to doing it
[14:18:27] stuarta: :-p
[14:18:43] stuartm: wonder if I've left it disabled after some debugging
[14:20:15] stuartm: nope, set to TV Only ... that means that lossless transcoding result is achieved only by removing the secondary audio and subtitles
[14:20:25] stuartm: it would be nice to fix the transcoder to keep the subtitles
[14:20:50] Seeker`: stuartm: how do you strip AD / subtitles?
[14:21:16] stuartm: Seeker`: run it through the lossless transcode without a cutlist
[14:23:35] Seeker`: stuartm: might have to give that a try
[14:28:15] stuartm: just found some candidates for unit testing, seems Qt provides a QXmlSchema class which will load an XSD and then validate any xml you feed it against the XSD
[14:29:10] stuartm: so we can create unit tests which validate all the upnp output, the themes, the services API and more
[14:30:56] stuartm: first time I've thought of something to unit test which actually seems worth the effort to implement
[14:35:09] stuarta: \o/
[14:39:26] stuartm: can even validate themes before they are installed, although I'm not sure what purpose that serves, telling users "the theme you have installed contains invalid markup" isn't really useful to the user
[14:40:07] stuartm: instead we should build validation into the theme submissions process so that broken themes don't reach the user in the first place
[14:40:22] stuarta: much better idea
[14:41:17] Seeker`: or just terrify users "you have downloaded a theme with invalid markup. We will now format your computer to remove the horrible messy markup"
[14:50:20] tgm4883: responding to superm1's question on the mailing list. Is there an upstream patch (eg. mythtv) for the new DD replacement service that is being worked on? As I mentioned on the list, we (Mythbuntu) got a patch and rme den would like to get more load testing done on the services.
[14:51:08] tgm4883: just trying to gauge if we should import that patch into our packaging for testing or if there is some imminent patch coming from upstream
[15:01:52] stuartm: tgm4883: there's no patch, but as I understand it's just a one-liner and I'll get the change made in master tonight
[15:02:36] tgm4883: stuartm: yea it's just a one liner. I've got a patch we're testing for 0.27
[15:51:38] superm1: so considering that, the one liner should also be backported into 0.27 fixes branch prior to the nov 1 cutoff right?
[15:52:07] stuartm: right
[15:52:40] stuartm: tgm4883: if you have the patch handy it will save me a few minutes
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[15:56:19] stuartm: nm, done it
[15:59:41] tgm4883: stuartm: I actually posted it to the dev mailing list
[16:01:15] tgm4883: stuartm: it also lives here https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/pull/40
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[16:13:23] stuartm: tgm4883: been a little preoccupied, must have missed it, but thanks for doing it
[16:13:37] tgm4883: np
[16:13:54] tgm4883: was trying to get some testing for rme den on it
[16:14:10] tgm4883: we'll prepare a post on mythbuntu.org about it and refer to the wiki
[16:17:09] stuartm: I may even push it to 0.27 later today, just don't want to break things for users if it can be helped
[16:17:29] stuarta: aw :(
[16:18:07] stuartm: in particular I don't want to have to deal with the support requests :)
[16:29:53] stuarta: right, i'm off for the evening, have a good one
[16:46:48] tgm4883: stuartm: well I'm using the patch that I had and it seems to work fine. I think issues with the change would need to be pointed at rmeden
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[16:47:47] tgm4883: stuartm: while I'd like to get the patch in as soon as we can, perhaps we should at least wait until rmeden finishes the stuff he was going to work on last night
[16:48:15] tgm4883: IIRC, regarding the lineup management stuff
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[17:03:49] peper03: stuartm, stuarta: The 'TV Only' filter doesn't work properly. All it does it remove the PIDs from the PMT but the streams themselves are still there. Trimming start and end and stripping the MHEG data streams usually reduces the file size by nearly half on BBC stuff.
[17:04:26] peper03: I have a partly-done patch that fixes the behaviour but I've just not got round to doing *anything* recently. :(
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[18:44:29] stuartm: peper03: well that would explain it
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[19:28:21] dekarl: stuarta: uh oh, if we add SAT/CABLE/ANTENNA/INTERNET>IP client and server support, then we will be flooded by new customers who want our multirec support to use as many clients as they want with their up to 8 DVB frontends
[19:28:55] dekarl: re lossless cut, don't forget that all packet sizes are rounded up to multiples of 188
[19:29:09] dekarl: lossless transcode gets rid of that, too
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[19:58:15] gigem: Does anyone have an opinion on #12296? The Watch List was one of bjm's pet features. He included it, and other things like auto-priority, in the public version of MythTv instead of his own, personal version because he thought it could be useful to others, differentiated MythTV from other DVRs and pushed the evolution of the DVR. Think of it as a MythTV feature along the lines of TiVo's Thumbs Up/Down and
[19:58:16] gigem: Suggestions feature. Anyway, by its definition, the behavior of the Watch List is going to be very subjective. Without bjm around to defend its behavior, however, it's left to flounder and be subject to the criticism of user like Roger Siddons. So what are we remaining, probably at best apathetic, developes supposed to do with it? I'm tempted to say rip it out and let someone interested in it redevelop it
[19:58:18] gigem: as a plug-in.
[19:58:27] gigem: Also, does anyone have an opinion on #12297. I'm loathe to add another view here. I'm not sure why he's complaining about 'episode-limited' rules showing in Important. There is a dynamic filter which only shows the first rsTooMany recording for each rule in Important. I can understand the issue for rsInactive recording. However, some people use that in conjunction with custom rules like premieres and
[19:58:27] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12297 **
[19:58:29] gigem: want to see those normally so they can choose to setup a regular rule for them or not. I'm inclined to add a dynamic filter for rsInactive which only shows the first one for each title (not rule).
[20:00:04] gigem: dekarl: I don't understand your "SAT/CABLE/ANTENNA/INTERNET>IP client" and "up to 8 DVB frontends" comment above. Could that have something to do with the multirec stuff I've slowly started working on?
[20:00:14] dekarl: gigem no
[20:00:45] dekarl: SAT>IP is a "new" standard for network attached DVB-S tuners, with CABLE/ANTENNA/wtf variants available out of spec
[20:01:32] dekarl: it is limited to one "viewing device" per "DVB frontend device" even when 10 users want to watch the same channel its not going to work
[20:02:10] dekarl: unless you configure the optional "multicast all programs of a transport" mode, basically DVB-IPTV headend style
[20:02:36] gigem: dekarl: Ah. Okay.
[20:02:44] dekarl: you can also mix, 3 dvb frontends for full transport multicast, the other 5 for unicast one client per device
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[20:03:21] dekarl: gigem, btw. will we get overlapping recordings, too. maybe even on the prime and similar devices?
[20:03:54] dekarl: In my book that's a very nice feature (broadcasters over here need at lest 10 minutes of slack in front/back of each programme)
[20:06:08] gigem: dekarl: Yes. In fact, that's one of my motivations since my primary tuners are now a HDHR Prime and a Ceton ETH6.
[20:06:59] dekarl: nice, that will also work wonders on (unicast) IPTV tuners. No reason to transmit the same stream twice
[20:09:09] gigem: Does the IPTV tuner use the same StreamHandler as DVB/Prime/Ceton? It might be possible to make it work with current multirec. jpabq is the one to check with for that. My stuff is going to take quite a while.
[20:11:47] dekarl: IPTV and Ceton share some code, I'm not sure if its also the StreamHandler
[20:29:55] stuartm: gigem: I don't see the harm in giving users more ways of filtering the list, in the WebFrontend I grouped them slightly differently as well with four possible views – "Important" (will record & conflicts), "Conflicting or Failed Schedules", "Inactive Rule Matches", "All scheduled"
[20:31:23] stuartm: now I'm not suggesting I got it right, but whatever we come up with perhaps it would be good for them to be consistent so the same filters/lists appear in both the frontend and the webfrontend, and behave in exactly the same way
[20:32:51] stuartm: I chose to only show recordings that will actually occur, failed recordings and conflicts in the "Important" view because 99% of the time that's what matters to me personally
[20:33:25] stuartm: I think using 'inactive' rules to match stuff that I 'might' wish to record is just abusing the scheduler, that's what the search lists are for
[20:36:05] stuartm: for the latter I think what's called for is a screen which shows the combined results of all (or selected) saved searches
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[20:40:35] stuartm: as far as the Watch List I've no views, never really understood the feature but then I've never much liked having an algorithm what I might like to watch next, it can't read my mood or even predict my viewing preferences, even I can't always do that
[20:41:07] stuartm: err, "having an algorithm suggest"
[20:41:50] stuartm: all I can say is that it made PBB even more complicated and messy than it already was
[20:46:02] stuartm: I think there is scope for more creative ways of organising recordings and a re-write of PBB into something more modular, that's something I'd like to tackle for 0.29
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[21:38:02] gigem: stuartm: Easy thing first. I too don't want someone else's algorithm telling me what I need to watch. Personally, I wouldn't object to removing the Watch List. In fact, if no one is willing to take ownership of it, it should be removed. However, I'm not going to do it unilaterally.
[21:38:04] gigem: stuartm: I would have never thought of using inactive rules to prominently flag things that might be of interest, so if it's an abuse, it's a damn ingenious one in my opinion.
[21:38:07] gigem: Anyway, regarding the View Scheduled views, I agree on the need for consistency. The use of filters in this case, however, initially seems foreign to me and might take some time to accept. I've always viewed it as a level of detail issue. Perhaps a hybrid approach could satisfy everyone. There is a toggle which switches between showing everything and showing the current, filtered view. The filtered view
[21:38:09] gigem: offers the groups you listed possibly a couple more to support 'reduced' flavors of rsInactive and rsTooMany.
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[21:53:54] dekarl: oh my ... https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/e8378 . . . 6745bd0a6453 I could have read that like 18 months ago and not broke the pidprinter :(
[21:53:55] dekarl: "Added a new pseudo-level of LOG_ANY. ... should you try to log a message at that level, it will be summarily discarded."
[21:54:31] dekarl: so LOG_ANY turns silently into LOG_NEVER
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[22:01:58] stuartm: dekarl: ouch
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[22:12:50] dekarl: stuartm, I like the idea of validating themes in the theme upload process. But I also like the idea of theme authors getting errors before that ;) Maybe the theme validator can go to one of our libraries and be called by the frontend when loading the theme and by calling mythutil to run it in the upload process?
[22:13:23] stuartm: maybe
[22:13:30] dekarl: unit testing out xml serializers against the XSD sounds like an idea, too
[22:14:23] stuartm: theme validation is already possible using xmllint and the XSD, but since it appears so easy to do it with QT instead there's no reason not to provide our own utility
[22:15:15] stuartm: need to actually take QXmlSchema for a spin though, might not be as perfect as it appears to be
[22:16:55] dekarl: I just use it as a preprocessor to collapse together sets of big xml files into one. I never used it to actually lint anything ;)
[22:18:22] stuartm: https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Development#Validation
[22:21:04] dekarl: man, shared libraries are not my friends. how do I test code changes without reinstalling the shared libraries? I just want to run mythutil after pulling in the last days worth of changes from master... segfaults all over the place, my guess is that its due to being compiled against something else then what is installed to the library path
[22:21:42] dekarl: mythutil, mythtranscode, maybe others could come in handy when statically compiled...
[22:40:37] gigem: dekarl: LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
[22:41:27] dekarl: gigem, sounds like that is it, will get a bit long though with one library per directory ;) I'll leave that for tomorrow, got to hit sack soonish
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[22:46:42] gigem: dekarl: The simple thing is symlink everything into a single directory and just specify that one in LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
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