:: #mythtv

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Current users (71):

aloril, amessina, andreaz, Anssi, arescorpio, brfranse_, caelor, Captain_Murdoch, Chutt, clever, coling, dblain, dekarl, eee-blt_, ElmerFudd, enyc, esperegu, fetzerch, Gibby, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, J-e-f-f-A, jafa2, jams, jarle, jasonc_, jheizer, joki, jpabq, jpharvey, jst, jwhite, jya, kc, knightr, kormoc, kurre2, moparisthebest, MythBuild, MythLogBot, nephyrin, og01_, peper03, poptix-, purserj, rich0, robink, rsiebert, Seeker`, seld, Sharky112065, sheedy-away, skd5aner, sl1ce, sphery, stuarta, stuartm, suffice, superm1, taylorr, tgm4883, Tobbe5178, tonsofpcs, tris, unforgiven512, wagnerrp, XDS2010, xris, zentec, _charly_
Thursday, October 9th, 2014, 00:05 UTC
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[00:15:15] stuartm: jya: figured we'd do that as soon as the DD url change is in
[00:15:59] stuartm: it's overdue anyway, but since we have to make that change it seems like a good idea to get it in first
[00:16:42] stuartm: I wanted to see whether any of the mythtranscode fixes apply to 0.27 too
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[00:48:26] jya: stuartm: AVPacket are reference counted only from 2.2
[00:49:01] jya: i don’t even know if that API is in the ffmpeg used by 0.27
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[03:01:10] rmeden: bill6502: I will request a DNS change to my TMS (now Gracenote) contacts and they said they'll do it. The question is, how long will Tribune (not TMS) keep it? I suspect they'll want to shut the servers down quickly, and hopefully not think about about DNS... but you never know.
[03:02:11] rmeden: bill6502. I'm actually thinking of requesting an additional DNS A record so people will start hitting my server... if it doesn't work with me on one day, they may get Tribune the next day.
[03:43:47] bill6502: rmeden: sounds like the safest way for folks running versions below 0.27 remains the /etc/hosts solution if Tribune could "pull the plug" on the DNS at any (unpredictable) time.
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[04:14:53] rmeden: bill6502: well the safest is update the URL, but that's my second choice.
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[05:04:06] bill6502: agreed, I was referring to those that won't be getting an update. (I made 200 mythfilldatabase runs today and only 1 failed!)
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[07:05:12] dekarl: stuarta, a user on the -users list reported bad SPF records and agrees. DNS *type* SPF is deprecated in favour of TXT, and mechanism ipv4 is unknown, should be ip4
[07:07:51] dekarl: oh, and the scheduler for appears to not schedule anymore
[07:45:45] stuarta: dekarl: named disagrees, and automatically adds an SPF record if you only do a TXT record
[07:48:13] stuarta: anyway, i was reading the other way, that the TXT record was depreciated and SPF was the correct one moving forward
[07:48:23] stuarta: clearly time to play hunt the rfc
[07:52:06] stuarta: dekarl: i've also set it to softfail, ie. fail validation, but still allow
[07:54:37] stuarta: bah me-- ipv4: != ip4:
[07:56:21] ** stuarta waits for it to propagate **
[08:01:56] stuarta: dekarl: fixed. nothing todo with the SPF record, i got the format of the record wrong
[08:27:00] dekarl: aye, that was the main point. the SPF vs. TXT was just an addition brought up by this -^ testing site
[08:29:27] stuarta: i originally only added a TXT record, then named bitched about it and said it was adding an SPF record. stupid thing
[08:29:43] stuarta: now back to only a TXT record with fixed data
[08:30:32] dekarl: wikipedia say SPF RR was withdrawn earlier this year as everyone just uses TXT
[08:30:53] stuarta: yeah, i'd never even heard of an SPF record before named bitched at me
[08:30:54] dekarl: maybe the implementations haven't caught up yet
[08:31:11] stuarta: bizarrely, it says it's adding it, yet it's not in the zone it pushes
[08:31:13] dekarl: bind is a neverending source of "joy"...
[08:32:25] stuarta: as is the selinux labelling of files on the filesystem
[08:36:01] stuarta: i've a couple of tricky ones left to track down
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[11:31:52] stuartm: well at least in Mageia VLC now works as a UPnP client with MythTV
[11:33:38] stuarta: \o/
[11:33:43] stuartm: I managed to get patches (not mine) committed upstream to libupnp then merged as critical bug fixes into the Mageia packages, someone just needs to do the same for Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, Suse, Gentoo, Fedora, Mint et al
[11:35:09] stuartm: interesting behaviour with vlc, it 'plays' the fanart, each bit of fanart is shown for ten seconds before the video
[11:35:24] stuarta: nice, does it work for master only or 0.27 as well?
[11:35:37] stuartm: haven't tried 0.27 yet
[11:36:10] stuarta: sigh, kernel debuginfo is sooooooo big ~250Mb
[11:37:30] ** stuarta thinks of an alternative way of tracking down what he needs **
[11:37:50] stuarta: time for some strace instead
[11:57:28] stuartm: vlc is the worst behaved upnp client I've yet seen, seems to be crawling the entire tree one item at a time
[11:58:52] stuartm: and it does so with no keep-alive, one connection per request, hundreds of requests per minute
[12:21:00] stuartm: having just pushed through changes to fix libupnp specifically to stop users complaining that VLC doesn't work, it looks like I now need to actively block it
[12:21:30] stuartm: with enough media it brings MythTV to it's knees, effectively a massive DOS
[12:30:13] dblain: stuartm: I guess it's time to add throttling support to the http server
[12:35:30] stuartm: aye, per client throttling would be a good idea
[12:36:25] stuartm: although VLC still seems so completely broken that if there's a way to warn users of it somehow it should save us some angry rants
[12:37:08] stuartm: it won't display the first level of the tree until it's crawled the entire tree, so it appears to hang
[12:38:02] stuartm: and I only have 5000 mp3s, and a few hundred videos/recordings, a fraction of what some users have
[12:38:48] dblain: Does it at least have a unique useragent?
[12:39:29] stuartm: it uses the default libupnp user agent, which fortunately it's used by very many clients so we may be able to block it without too much collateral damage
[12:43:09] dblain: I hate the idea of creating client specific exceptions, but what if you only returned the top level of the tree for VLC (logging why and maybe adding a msg as an artificial item). Have a setting :( that allows this feature to be overridden.
[12:43:16] dblain: After typing that, I don't like it!
[12:46:47] stuarta: ah this is such fun...
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[12:50:12] stuartm: maybe even just return a single node "Do not use VLC, it's broken" :)
[12:57:25] dblain: That would work, but I'd still offfer a way to re-enable normal functionality... for people with small collections, or maybe a vlc dev trying to fix it (one can only hope)
[12:58:35] stuartm: they are telling me that they know it's "seriously flawed" but they don't have the time to fix it, nor are they willing it drop it despite it's bad behaviour
[12:59:09] dblain: fun
[13:00:57] dekarl: haha, "just" add a special one media item parallel UPNP device with just "VLC is broken, please use a non-broken DLNA Client".
[13:01:34] dekarl: oh, just catching up now, looks like you had the same idea
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[13:02:20] stuartm: doesn't even claim DLNA support, just basic UPnP, using the oldest version of the spec (over ten years old)
[13:02:49] dekarl: But being a media client, we could sing and dance the "go away" message. So user friendly :D
[13:04:05] stuartm: it's a little sad to be on the receiving end of "Patches are welcome" for once
[13:04:12] pvr4me: stuartm: re libupnp patches, can you give me a ref to a ticket number or somesuch?
[13:04:36] dekarl: at least we pulled features after them being broken for to long
[13:04:44] dekarl: like DBOX2 Recorder support
[13:06:10] dekarl: writing the vlc patch can't be so hard... just change configure to force upnp to being disabled :)
[13:06:15] stuartm: yeah, if it were me I'd remove the feature, especially since it's not just broken but it swamps servers
[13:06:59] stuartm: I'd have a sense of responsibility for what the software I maintain does
[13:07:58] stuartm: anyway, rate throttling is worth having, so we'll implement that
[13:09:03] stuartm: pvr4me:
[13:11:29] stuartm: so good news comes out of it though, it revealed a bug in the video tree because of the 'special' use of season 0 by tvdb
[13:12:03] pvr4me: stuartm: Thanks! Any word on the libupnp project releasing 1.6.20? (Last release January 2013)
[13:13:38] stuartm: pvr4me: I've not heard anything, and I'd not hold your breath, not much activity from the project at the moment, seems to be one guy holding things together and weeks/months go past between commits
[13:15:31] pvr4me: I was afraid of that. I seem to be left holding the bag on the MacPorts packaging of libupnp. It is sooo much easier with a release rather than patches
[13:16:01] stuartm: libupnp has no support for any services past version 1 whereas the current MediaServer version is 4, so it's not what I'd be basing any new work on
[13:18:56] stuartm: I'd say the state of upnp in open source projects is poor, but what I've seen so far of commercial implementations is not much better
[13:20:42] pvr4me: Our 'current' port of libupnp is at 1.6.6--the maintainer retired after that. Months ago, I proposed an update to 1.6.19 and then encouraged to take over maintainership of the port. (I'm not a developer; I just hack around at packaging.)
[13:20:51] stuarta: grrr stopped an strace just before an event it would have captured happened.. :(
[13:20:59] stuartm: and I really don't get it, because it's not so difficult once you've got the basic stuff in place http server/client, soap and xml parsing/creation, etc That's what they all get right, then they somehow seem to trip over their feet working on the last 10%
[13:21:19] ** stuarta nominates stuartm as the new maintainer **
[13:21:33] pvr4me: Seconded!
[13:23:30] dblain: Long ago, I seriously considered breaking mythtv’s upnp support out and making it a standalone implementation.
[13:24:28] sphery: fwiw, I like that idea
[13:24:33] dblain: That was back when I had resistence doing my own implemenation. Most everyone wanted to use libupnp!
[13:24:58] sphery: especially when it sounds like an app can DoS mythtv backend via UPnP
[13:25:23] sphery: I'd rather some extra UPnP app crashed than my master backend
[13:25:32] dblain: sphery: We will add throttleing to stop that from happening.
[13:26:26] dblain: Thottleing will also protect agains other http requests (non-upnp) from causing DoS.
[13:27:55] sphery: I'm not sure if it was around when you did the initial UPnP implementation, but I've always though it would be interesting to look into Platinum UPnP for providing our UPnP/DLNA support –
[13:28:39] sphery: mainly because libupnp seems to be unloved/not getting updates, etc.
[13:29:45] sphery: and, yeah, the throttling is good and will help with this issue, but I'm still a big fan of breaking up the backend's functions (all of them)
[13:30:11] stuartm: sphery: well we now have a very robust implementation courtesy of dblain, I'd not trade it for one maintained by a third party given what I've seen of some of those efforts
[13:30:27] sphery: that said, I'll admit I know almost nothing about our internal web server/upnp stuff
[13:31:52] stuartm: sphery: to be clear, the load created by the upnp server doesn't impact on 'normal' backend functionality in any way, except by increasing processor load generally and tying up connections potentially preventing other clients from connecting to the http server
[13:32:33] stuartm: we handle requests in their own threads
[13:33:24] sphery: stuartm: yeah, I think it's amazing what we have--when there are whole projects focused on nothing but UPnP libraries/support--but it seems we have enough other things to worry about/spend developer time on and trying to roll our own implementation of UPnP support just takes time away from working on the rest
[13:33:56] sphery: especially since there are so many non-compliant/differing/picky/troublesome implementations in the thousands of devices out there
[13:34:06] sphery: (with more being added every day) that support UPnP
[13:34:12] stuartm: there's also value in having multiple upnp server implementations available in the open source world, that way if one project dies there isn't a void
[13:34:19] sphery: and fixing one often leads to breaking another
[13:35:48] stuartm: sphery: when we're done it should take care of itself, there's not much to maintain which wouldn't be also affected when using a third party lib e.g. changes to our metadata classes/schema
[13:37:30] stuartm: sphery: currently targeting compliance with the spec, rather than supporting particular devices, that will give us support for the greatest number of clients
[13:40:11] stuarta: ahah! finally capture it
[13:40:23] ** dblain is having Déjà vu from 10 years ago! **
[13:40:33] stuartm: willing to make some exceptions, e.g. adding support for the proprietary Samsung feature I do because it uses the official upnp features api, but custom headers for certain devices or mis-reporting mime-types I'm less keen on doing
[13:41:33] stuartm: at least if I do add those it will be in a special "Disable UPnP/DLNA compliance" mode :D
[13:45:15] stuartm: dblain: I'll bet! I'd didn't set out to get so involved with and passionate about upnp, but despite all the complaints about it, there are some good things and ideas behind it
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[13:48:22] stuartm: if everything was implemented by every media device you'd be able to play back and scheduling mythtv recordings from any device with no special software, your 'universal' remote control would really be universal, your playlists would be automatically sync'd to all devices, you'd pause a track on your mobile phone, turn on your stereo and it would continue playing from the same point
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[13:49:23] stuartm: possibilities are endless, but adoption of those features is so low :(
[13:50:02] stuarta: bare minimum of effort is what everyone does
[13:54:00] dblain: stuartm: agreed. Too bad there are so many bad implementions out there. Makes it difficult to have it "Just Work"
[14:04:38] stuartm: decided I like writing implementations based on standards, appeals to my pendantic perfectionist side
[14:05:39] stuarta: heh
[14:06:45] stuarta: sounds like me and tracking down selinux denials
[14:06:59] stuarta: speaking of which i'm down to 2 issues
[14:08:25] stuartm: \o/
[14:08:32] stuartm: :p
[14:18:28] stuarta: 1 down, 1 still to identify
[14:18:43] stuarta: currently cannot find out why httpd is trying to connect to port 8888
[14:23:21] stuarta: doh forgot about that issue, still 2
[14:24:33] jheizer: One of the sites have a proxypass to something php-fpm/cgi/whatever maybe?
[14:25:00] stuarta: that's the obvious, but i can't find that
[14:28:42] stuartm: nothing breaks when you start enforcing?
[14:30:21] jheizer: Google seems to suggest tomcat
[14:30:56] jheizer: but yeah, could be anything.
[14:31:47] stuartm: tcp 0 1321 ESTABLISHED 18053/httpd
[14:32:05] jheizer: If you try to pull up localhost:8888 does anything come up (like if it was just a dummy reverse proxy)
[14:32:48] jheizer: Forum SPAM Detection
[14:33:07] stuartm: yup
[14:33:09] jheizer: phpbb pluin
[14:33:20] stuartm: stuarta: it's the trac or wiki anti-spam plugin
[14:33:32] stuartm:
[14:33:37] stuartm:
[14:33:39] stuartm: oh ffs
[14:33:43] stuarta: heh
[14:33:47] stuartm:
[14:34:07] stuartm: stupid mouse copy/paste not working from konsole
[14:34:08] stuarta: that's why i didn't find it, was looking locally
[14:34:23] stuartm: netstat -atunpc | grep 8888
[14:34:58] stuarta: must have got my timing wrong was doing netstat -tanp | grep 8888 and getting nada
[14:35:43] stuartm: the -c is for continuous
[14:36:06] stuartm: handy when looking for temporary connections
[14:36:28] stuartm: -tunapc is more memorable
[14:36:34] stuarta: good point, they were so infrequent compared to the rest of the denials by the time i looked for them they had gone
[14:43:37] stuarta: well now time to wait and see if anything else pops up
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[15:04:24] stuarta: ooo. set it to enforcing and no flood of AVC messages
[15:06:44] stuarta: i'm leaving it like this for a while. if something breaks, you can stop enforcing with "setenforce 0"
[15:06:52] stuarta: lemme know if you have to
[15:07:49] stuarta: irclogs broken
[15:07:51] ** stuarta fixes **
[15:09:34] ** stuarta sighs, well first i gotta work out why it breaks without an AVC message :-( **
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[15:12:44] stuarta: that's just plain upsetting
[15:32:31] ** stuarta facepalms why are the skins for the irclogger being served out of beirdo's homedir? **
[15:43:24] stuarta: ah no they aren't :)
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[15:48:42] stuartm: :)
[15:50:15] stuarta: still doesn't answer the question of why i don't get an AVC denial for it
[15:51:00] stuartm: could ask in #selinux
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[15:52:40] stuarta: the web frontend just shows cannot write to database, so maybe there is something more subtle happening
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[16:38:15] SteveGoodey: stuartm: Should paul h be considered active?
[16:40:52] stuartm: yes
[16:42:15] stuartm: it was inevitable that I'd overlook some names, especially those most active
[16:42:19] ** stuartm sighs **
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[17:05:07] dekarl: ohh the upcoming xmltv release might have two competing grabbers for north amercia, what a timing
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[17:10:57] rmeden: dekarl yea, how nice of them to post now... if it passes tests, no reason not to add it. Looks like it is local and national satellite listings only. No cable or local sat
[17:11:05] rmeden: their web page mentions a MythTV grabber in the works :)
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[17:35:44] stuartm: that would I assume be the xmltv grabber
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[18:19:58] rmeden: stuartm: I doubt it... but in reality, I'm pretty sue the XMLTV grabber will be recommended instead of what they come up with! :)
[18:21:17] stuartm: well xmltv and dd xml are the only methods of getting guide data into MythTV (well there's EIT too but that's hardly applicable here)
[18:22:36] stuartm: any other method would involve directly writing into our database, which is a really bad idea – so yeah, sod's law means that's exactly what they mean
[18:23:41] stuartm: last laugh will be on us though as I'll issue a schema change to break their grabber once a day ;)
[18:26:47] SteveGoodey: stuartm: I've moved paul h into active devs. Hope that's ok.
[18:26:58] stuartm: SteveGoodey: yeah that's great, thanks
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