:: #mythtv

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Current users (71):

aloril, amessina, Anssi, bill6502, brfransen, caelor_, Captain_Murdoch, cesman, Chutt, clever, Cougar, dblain, dekarl, eee-blt_, ElmerFudd, esperegu, fetzerch, Gibby, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, J-e-f-f-A, jams, jarle, jheizer, jluttine, joki, jpharvey, jst, jwhite, jya, kc, knightr_, kormoc, kurre2, moparisthebest, MythBuild, MythLogBot, nephyrin, og01_, peper03, poptix, purserj_, rhpot1991, rich0, rmeden1, robink, rsiebert_, Seeker`, seld, Sharky112065, sheedy-away, skd5aner, sl1ce, sphery_, sraue, stuartm, supaplex, superm1, taylorr, tgm4883, Tobbe5178, tonsofpcs, tris, unforgiven512, wagnerrp_, Warped, XDS2010, xris, zentec, _charly_
Thursday, October 2nd, 2014, 02:17 UTC
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[12:41:22] jluttine: are there any windowed frontend clients for mythtv? by windowed, i mean "natively" windowed, which is dynamically resizeable and uses mouse, comparable to for instance vlc
[12:42:19] jluttine: (and then obviously also can be set to fullscreen easily)
[12:43:33] jluttine: sorry, wrong channel..
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[12:47:26] stuarta: afternoon
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[13:09:28] stuartm: already?
[13:09:36] stuartm: afternoon stuarta
[13:11:07] stuarta: yep afternoon already
[13:23:47] ** stuarta rebuilds mythtv after system upgrade **
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[20:17:38] tgm4883: Should the main mythbuntu devs have access to the private dev mailing list? I've heard that we should, but we currently don't.
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[20:18:54] tgm4883: I ask, because I'm trying to figure out what the stance is for the nov 1st SD deadline for 0.27 and previous. There doesn't seem to be much developer talk about it on the public dev (nor -users) mailing lists
[20:19:58] stuartm: even less talk on the private list
[20:20:12] stuartm: tgm4883: will sort you out with access asap
[20:20:29] tgm4883: stuartm: thanks, superm1 too
[20:22:53] tgm4883: stuartm: (or anyone), if I may add my two cents on the subject, I think the easiest solution would be to (provided all the current testing works out the kinks) change the URL for datadirect in mythtv and keep 0.27 using the old feed. Then just having master use the new JSON service
[20:27:03] stuartm: tgm4883: that's my current thinking too, and obviously we'd roll that out for 0.27 ASAP so that packagers on other platforms have time to roll it out
[20:27:32] tgm4883: stuartm: yep, it's the least impact for users so I think makes the most sense
[20:27:38] stuartm: for master I'd still personally prefer switching over US users to xmltv
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[20:29:11] stuartm: and since most US devs, with the exception of Sphery, are relatively quiet on the subject that's probably what will happen
[20:30:44] tgm4883: stuartm: yes I agree with 0.28 moving to the JSON grabber via XMLTV, I just think that the proper time to do a change like that is between 0.27 and 0.28, not 0.27+fixes1 and 0.27+fixes2 (which is sounds like we agree on that)
[20:31:24] stuartm: I'd still prefer the US devs to be drivers behind the change rather than appearing to impose my views (as a UK dev) on our entire US community
[20:31:56] tgm4883: stuartm: I'm just trying to get some solid info on the mythtv stance. I already have had to squash stupid forum posts titled "Schedules Direct Support ending November 1, 2014"
[20:32:07] stuartm: ouch
[20:32:39] tgm4883: stuartm: nah, just do it and be like "this is cause of 1776 bi*ches"
[20:32:55] tgm4883: that's how us in 'merica would handle it ;)
[20:34:54] stuartm: tbh, I think SD should have given application developers news of the Nov 1st deadline at least a month earlier (perhaps more) than they did so that we all could have had a strategy and maybe even a fix in place before it was announced to SD customers
[20:35:28] tgm4883: that would have been nice, but are we sure how much early notification they had?
[20:35:47] tgm4883: or you are saying they should have just emailed known projects and not disclosed it to the public
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[20:36:06] stuartm: in fact, if applications were told of it and were able to put fixes in place then customers would not even have had to know of the change, it's just a switch from an old API to a new one, that sort of thing happens all the time
[20:36:19] tgm4883: yea that would have made more sense
[20:36:23] tgm4883: less fear mongering
[20:36:54] stuartm: tgm4883: post I saw said they knew months ago, but decided to keep quiet until they had their (dodgy) php/json grabber ready
[20:37:03] tgm4883: ah :/
[20:39:55] stuartm: we'd known for a long time that TMS were introducing a new API, we just didn't know about a deadline until they announced it to every one, and if I'm honest I thought someone else was handling our migration schedule – turns out that no-one was :/
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[20:46:33] tgm4883: stuartm: if it helps, I can write a local patch to change out the URL for the new DD service and stick the packages on one of our bug PPA's for people to test against
[20:49:17] tgm4883: which should just be changing out line 558 of . . . tadirect.cpp to the URL
[20:49:47] tgm4883: although I do wonder why there is still zap2it stuff in there
[20:55:07] stuartm: tgm4883: that would be good, obviously I'm not in a position to test myself
[20:58:47] stuartm: well, I'm sure I could get a key if I wanted, but that's not really the same thing as someone who knows what the existing data should look like trying it out, seeing how it affects their recording schedules etc
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[21:10:54] jheizer_: I ran a test using the existing method to the new servers. It ran ok, just only got 6 days of data. After that is missing a bunch. My same upcoming 30 records or so were there.
[21:11:09] jheizer_: So at least the easy way seems to be working.
[21:24:41] stuartm: jheizer_: I'd report the fact that you're not getting the full 14? days to SD
[21:25:19] jheizer_: I replied in the mailing list thread. Though I believe they said that was to be expected.
[21:25:55] stuartm: a problem they are looking to fix, or a permanent limitation>
[21:25:56] stuartm: ?
[21:26:12] jheizer_: Bah, no they replied that it should be. All of Robert Eden's emails are going to span on gmail.
[21:26:25] jheizer_: That all the data should be there I mean.
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[21:48:08] rmeden1: Hi guys... did someone have questions about the Schedules Direct replacement service?
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[22:00:57] bill6502: tgm4883: I just asked Robert Eden about his plans, from his answer: Short term, I'm hoping for Tribune to make the change in their DNS servers. Short term, worst case, we have a hosts file. Long term, I'd like the URL changed in the application.
[22:01:28] rmeden1: hi :)
[22:01:37] tgm4883: bill6502: yea that is the response he gave me on the forums too
[22:01:42] tgm4883: rmeden1: hi
[22:01:56] bill6502: oh, that rmeden1 ;)
[22:01:57] tgm4883: but even if they do, would continue to work?
[22:02:37] rmeden1: yea, we control that
[22:03:21] tgm4883: so then I'm going to push that change to one of our bug PPA's so people can test it. then if all goes well upstream mythtv can pull that patch in for 0.27 and switch to JSON for 0.28
[22:03:47] tgm4883: making it little to no impact for the user hopefully except for at the natural transition from 0.27 to 0.28
[22:04:14] tgm4883: and according to the mailing list, which should just be changing out line 558 of . . . tadirect.cpp to the URL
[22:06:33] rmeden1: so guys I win for consitancy right? :)
[22:07:48] bill6502: tgm4883: you understand that the json solution requires just 2 .php files plus 4.8M
[22:08:27] tgm4883: bill6502: doesn't it also require configuring XMLTV with my SD credentials?
[22:11:05] bill6502: I only used it on my test host. And it only has 1 over the air tuner (no cable/clear qam...) and I didn't do any configuration other than with the supplied sd-utility.php script (and some mythtv-setup changes to point to it.)
[22:11:37] tgm4883: bill6502: see, I'm not entirely sure how I can automate that for all of my users
[22:12:36] tgm4883: I'd rather error on the side of "mythtv still functions for my users that don't know there was a backend SD change"
[22:12:37] rmeden1: bill6502: configuring XMLTV? I saw some posts in the MythTV list about that... what does XMLTV have to do with the SD JSON service?
[22:14:10] bill6502: rmeden1: I don know. I didn't do anything other than run his utility. and then use mfdb-json.php.
[22:14:34] tgm4883: rmeden1: I think that is to me. IIRC, MythTV has two options for guide data, XMLTV (and thus all of those grabbers), and the SD grabber (currently uses XML). Currently two separate code bases for doing the same thing (despite there already being an SD grabber for XMLTV). I think the consenus was to switch to XMLTV and have a single code base
[22:14:46] tgm4883: but i am not a mythtv developer, just a Mythbuntu developer
[22:15:14] rmeden1: well, no one has written an XMLTV converter for JSON yet
[22:15:43] rmeden1: I thoguht the confusion in the forum was saying XMLTV ID in stead of XMLID for station-ids.
[22:15:46] tgm4883: rmeden1: probably true, I believe they had the one for the old DD service
[22:15:55] rmeden1: yea, I wrote it :)
[22:17:00] rmeden1: I'm actually the XMLTV project lead... and I don't know of anyone writing a SD JSON grabber for XMLTV. Of course people are welcome too. XMLTV would need lots of expansion for all the data though.
[22:17:06] tgm4883: well in any case, I'm trying to make this be not broken come nov 1st for our mythbuntu users that either A) don't update to new packaging, or B) don't keep up to date on the mailing list/forums/blog posts/etc
[22:17:48] rmeden1: One thing I did do recently was update the XMLTV windows executable to a recent version of perl, so someone could develop one using sql*lite or something similar.
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[22:18:23] rmeden1: tgm4883: that's one reason I'm hoping Tribune will update DNS. I asked again about it yesterday.
[22:19:19] tgm4883: rmeden1: yea that would be the best solution I think
[22:19:40] rmeden1: I'm thinking of asking them to do that mid Oct... by then I expect the SD DD grabber to be running smooth and we can back out the change if needed and still fix it by Nov 1.
[22:20:29] tgm4883: rmeden1: of course, it would be nice if they responded. I've already had to squash some fear mongering in our forum on a post titled "Schedules Direct Support ending November 1, 2014"
[22:20:47] tgm4883: that linked back to your SD forum thread
[22:21:42] bill6502: rmeden1: will the existing page allow users to establish/configure their lineups?
[22:21:42] rmeden1: We (SD board) was very sensitive to that... that's one reason why we kept things quiet until solutions were close and we had a firm date.
[22:22:18] rmeden1: Yes, I've started emplementing the TMS lineup api in my code.... it's just not ready yet. Shoudl be easier than the data!
[22:22:31] rmeden1: (plus there's really only one user of that API... the SD web site :) )
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[22:37:28] gigem: tgm4883: As for this US dev, the best short term solution is to have TMS change their DNS or us change the URLs in our code. Long term, I'd like to keep the DD enhancements in the data and also add the newer SD ones. If that can be done through xmltv cooperation, then great. If not, then I guess we switch to JSON or our own custom xmltv.
[22:47:15] rmeden1: gigem: I think you mean keep the JSON enhancements in the data. As far as XMLTV, we're pretty flexible on extending XMLTV, but we need someone willing to write the grabber.
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[23:10:59] gigem: rmeden1: I'm assuming the format of the data (JSON vs. XML) is mostly an implementation detail. I could be very wrong, though, and the actual structure of the JSON data from SD is radically different than how it is in XML from xmltv. If that's the case, that would be unfortunate.
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[23:18:31] rmeden1: gigem: Yea, not only are they radically different, the fetch methods are completely different. SD JSON uses a difference model where you only download the records that change. That pretty much requires any grabber have a back-end database to cache values. There currently isn't any XMLTV project grabber that does that. On the plus side, as I mentioned, WIndows XMLTV now uses a current version of Perl, so someone *could* do
[23:19:31] rmeden1: BTW, just got an email back from Tribune, DNS redirect isn't looking good past Nov 1 for corporate political reasons :(
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