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Wednesday, October 1st, 2014, 00:00 UTC
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[08:34:44] wagnerrp_: dekarl: i'll take a look at it
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[09:19:22] paul-h: stuarta, stuartm: are either of you using Atlas?
[09:21:20] stuartm: I'm not, not happy with the atlas grabber, want to see an alternate version with the rt grabber fixups before I switch
[09:25:47] paul-h: What are the problems with it?
[09:26:19] paul-h: Seems some users have been using it for the last year without problems
[09:33:04] stuartm: paul-h: lacking certain data, e.g. whether a program is in HD or SD
[09:33:52] stuartm: that's not an 'atlas' issue, it's just that the maintainer of the grabber only created it to work with his own project and has no interest in that information
[09:34:35] stuartm: he's been actively hostile when approached by MythTV users about making improvements
[09:36:42] dekarl1 is now known as dekarl
[09:39:21] dekarl: To his defense, he considers the grabber to be a dumb pipe between a pristine data source and the consuming application. The downside is, that this is contrary to the XMLTV conception of the grabber being a translator from one data model to another.
[09:39:55] dekarl: It doesn't help that the concept of "this program is in HD" is not agreed upon and varies depending between broadcasters and between users.
[09:40:31] dekarl: e.g. "upscaled SD is not to be considered HD even when transmitted in 1080p on a AVC encoded service"
[09:41:11] dekarl: the others say "SD/HD is a property of the transmitting service and has nothing to do with the actual programme"
[09:42:48] dekarl: btw, did anybody talk to Nick about switching his _uk_rt grabber to the atlas data source?
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[09:46:57] paul-h: That sounds like a minor inconvenience to put up with to get guide data for all the channels now missing from the RT feed :)
[09:47:36] paul-h: What's the time line for the RT feed closing down?
[09:49:07] paul-h: Wonder what is the relation of the atlas grabber on github and the one in the xmltv source?
[09:51:47] dekarl: paul-h: which one on github?
[09:51:59] dekarl: we talked the author of into joining the xmltv crowd
[09:52:17] stuartm: dekarl: veering slightly off topic, but for me flagging something as HD simply defines it as the best quality version that is available, and even if it's just upscaled SD that will still be true
[09:53:46] dekarl: stuartm, well, considering that station A only has the SD tapes around but station B at the same time got their hands on a new HD tape, its possible that the best version is different depending on the station when both are being broadcast around the same time :(
[09:54:11] stuartm: after all no-one records something just because it's in HD do they? They want to record it because they are interested in the programme, the resolution information just helps them to decide which version should actually be recorded
[09:54:33] dekarl: I record "good star rating and HD"
[09:55:08] dekarl: but its more of a "don't bother with filling the disks with SD when I don't have enough time for the stuff I get with the HD filter" :)
[09:55:53] paul-h: dekarl: ah so the one in the xmltv source is the one to use?
[09:55:55] dekarl: and that stations over here actively send a crap SD picture to sell you HD services
[09:56:28] dekarl: paul-h: if you are looking for the grabber by honir, then yes its best to just use the one that ships with xmltv
[09:58:01] dekarl: here's the mails from Honir and Nick
[11:00:10] stuartm: paul-h: you can be the brave pioneer and let me know what is present, what is missing etc
[11:01:05] stuartm: I'd be interested to know whether season/episode/total episodes information is included, and also cast info
[11:01:30] stuartm: heh, google streetview car just drove past
[11:04:25] dekarl: stuartm, I hope you had an axe and fake blood at hand? And a collegue who playes the victim?
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[12:24:53] stuartm: sadly not
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[12:26:04] paul-h: stuartm: episode/total episodes data is good showing both where available even soaps have an episode number, not seen any series info yet
[12:28:36] paul-h: cast stuff seems very good as well and contains all the usual director, writer, presenter etc where applicable
[12:29:34] paul-h: Films have the year and most have the age certification as well
[12:30:35] paul-h: No sign of any HD flags but the usual repeat/subtitle/signed stuff is present
[12:31:39] paul-h: Categories all seem sensible from what I have seen
[12:33:04] paul-h: A lot of programs are showing the 'Deaf Signed' flag which I'm not sure is correct
[12:37:27] paul-h: Setup was really easy just change the grabber to the Atlas one in the source setup and click configure and follow the instructions no need to change the xmltvid's since the grabber will convert the old id's to the new ones
[12:38:12] stuartm: that's nice
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[12:38:49] paul-h: Still need to figure out why a couple of channels isn't getting and data though
[12:40:34] paul-h: It's be a pain for new user to set up since they will likely have to use the new cryptic 4 letter xmltvid's
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[12:52:43] stuartm: still formatted like domain names?
[12:55:12] paul-h: No the new ones are just four letter like this is the one for BBC Three – cbbP
[12:55:25] stuartm: that's not valid ...
[12:55:37] stuartm: xmltv spec requires names formatted like the old xmltvids
[12:56:14] stuartm: dekarl: does the xmltv validator not validate the format of the id?
[12:57:36] paul-h: well there is a map file that will convert the new id's to the old ones in the actual xml like this
[12:58:26] stuartm: it partially so they remain readable, but also so they are guaranteed to be unique to a particular channel no matter how many grabbers are used
[12:59:30] stuartm: paul-h: odd, I wonder why he'd bother doing that if he's going to maintain a map of the old IDs anyway, why not just use the old IDs?
[13:00:31] stuartm:  – "Each channel has one id attribute, which must be unique and should preferably be in the form suggested by RFC2838 (the 'broadcast' element of the grammar in that RFC, in other words, a DNS-like name but without any URI scheme)."
[13:00:57] stuartm: ok, so it actually says "preferably", so not making it a mandatory requirement, but still
[13:01:10] paul-h: Doesn't make any sense to me either
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[13:30:05] paul-h: stuartm: the season stuff is there it's just not being displayed on the MythCenter info screen
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[14:01:37] dekarl: I get <channel id=""> from _uk_atlas
[14:02:05] dekarl: paul-h, what do you mean with "shows have episodes but no series"?
[14:02:32] dekarl: is that "series, as in the tv show" or is that "series, as in the season number"?
[14:07:04] paul-h: dekarl: it's a theme issue the season number is there it's just not being shown in MythCenter
[14:07:28] dekarl: stuartm, the validator should nicely report the channels as "Line 5 Invalid channel-id 'cbbP'"
[14:08:10] dekarl: paul-h: add ok, because I would not be suprised as some tvshows don't so seasons
[14:08:16] dekarl: s/add/ahh/
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[14:09:45] dekarl: man, these Apple guys really need to talk to Blizzard about distribution large software updates with the internet, its not rocket science
[14:21:07] stuartm: paul-h: I'll look into it
[14:22:09] stuartm: dekarl: so you get the properly formatted id? strange
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[14:28:30] paul-h: I think the only place you have to use the four letter id's is in the config file we pass to the grabber
[14:28:50] paul-h: The created xml file it passes back has the new id's converted to the old ones. All seems very convoluted why not just use the old ids in the config file as well
[15:00:31] dekarl: paul-h: stuartm: the format of the ids was changed but the configuration file shows the upstream ids
[15:25:43] paul-h: dekarl: do you have have any influence with the Atlas author :) Just noticed all the itv1 id's in the map file appear to be incorrect the RT ones are like but the ones in are like
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[15:26:54] paul-h: That's from the latest stable xmltv 0.5.65 not checked the github version
[15:27:19] paul-h: That's why some channels have missing data
[15:30:40] paul-h: github version is equally broken :(
[15:36:31] paul-h: The bbc2 one is different as well the one in the map file is the one RT uses is
[15:43:50] dekarl: paul-h: I can write nice mails to him :)
[15:44:02] dekarl: Are you saying that this list needs some fixes? channels.conf?revision=1.13&view=markup
[15:45:20] dekarl: Updates to that file go out each day to all installations via . . . hannels.conf
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[15:45:34] stuartm: paul-h: technically is the correct domain for ITV, it's the old grabber that had it wrong, but whether we should prefer to stick with the old value to avoid breakage or not ...
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[15:47:04] stuartm: paul-h: you might wish to add EPISODETOTAL as well, that's the total number of episodes in a series (season)
[15:47:22] dekarl: stuartm, technically both are correct :D appears to be under control of
[15:48:37] stuartm: err TOTALEPISODES
[15:49:16] stuartm: dekarl: true, but iirc the RFC suggests using the principal domain, which is .com as redirects there
[15:50:35] dekarl: ...
[15:50:48] dekarl: just picked the oldest entry, no idea when Nick made up the id
[15:51:13] dekarl: I think "make a stable id" trumps "track marketing decisions" ;)
[15:51:54] stuartm: actually, doesn't seem the RFC says anything on which domain name should be used ... there I go making stuff up again ;)
[15:51:57] paul-h: I was going by the id's in channel_ids file that the RT grabber uses. If the transition is going to go as smoothly as possible the two need to match
[15:52:17] stuartm: paul-h: aye, that would be best
[15:53:27] paul-h: stuartm: at least in MythCenter if there is a total episodes available the episode number is already shown as 12/34
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[16:00:37] stuartm: paul-h: ah, maybe I dealt with it at the code level then
[16:01:49] stuartm: yeah look like it, curse this frail memory
[16:02:26] stuartm: should appear as "12 of 34"
[16:03:01] paul-h: yeah it does
[16:03:39] stuartm: good, you can go back to doing whatever you were doing before I interrupted :)
[16:05:19] paul-h: One thing I did notice is the episode and season both show for things like films that have an episode of 0 is there any point adding it in that case?
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[16:06:50] stuartm: no, they should be hidden from view
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[16:35:09] dekarl: paul-h like this? . . . &r2=1.26
[16:42:07] paul-h: dekarl: What we are talking about is what we display on the program details screen when you click INFO on a program in the guide for example. We sometimes show the episode number when it doesn't make sense to do so for example when showing details for a film
[16:43:28] paul-h: I'll fix it later it's a simple fix
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[17:39:06] dekarl: paul-h: ok, it just reminded me that I saw a commit related to episode number 0 pass by
[17:39:45] dekarl: as long a two part movies and mini series work :)
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[17:58:39] stuartm: dekarl: we have a separate 'part number' for multi-part films
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[19:46:39] stuarta: paul-h: no i'm not using atlas. i only use EIT data
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