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aloril_, amessina, Anssi, caelor, Captain_Murdoch2, cesman, Chutt, clever, coling, Cougar, CrypticSquared, dblain, dekarl, dmfrey, dumnut, eee-blt, ElmerFudd, fetzerch, FrankD_Work, Gibby, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx_, J-e-f-f-A, jafa, jams, jarle, jarryd, jheizer_, joki, jpabq, jwhite, jya, jya_, kc, kormoc, kurre2, kwmonroe, moparisthebest, MythBuild, MythLogBot, nephyrin, nyloc, peper03, poptix, purserj, RedPenguin, rhpot1991, robink, rsiebert, ryan_turner|MTW, seld, Sharky112065, sl1ce, sphery, sraue, stichnot, stuartm, superm1_, taylorr, tgm4883, toeb_, tonsofpcs, tris, unforgiven512, wagnerrp, Warped, wseltzer1, XDS2010_, xris, zentec, _charly_
Tuesday, July 8th, 2014, 00:14 UTC
[00:14:29] jya: paul-h: I thought I had marked that one as false positive earlier on
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[00:50:36] jya: wagnerrp: anything you want me to test/review ?
[00:51:00] jya: I have free time this week.. After that my availability is likely going to drop to 0 for several months
[00:52:46] wagnerrp: haven't tested it myself yet. at the moment, it simply passes compile
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[00:54:34] ** jya going to see why UPnP with music doesn’t work.. **
[00:55:50] jya: wagnerrp: really, I have no issue in doing the change myself… just let me know
[01:18:28] wagnerrp: for some reason, it's not letting me pull a lineup list from SD
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[01:40:54] wagnerrp: does anyone know of any examples of the #12149 issue that _arent_ news series with way too much data for to reasonably process?
[01:40:54] ** MythLogBot **
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[03:26:06] jya: ah ! patch 0049 fixes that annoying PiP corruption I’ve been seeing for a while
[03:26:15] jya: he’s good…
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[03:47:30] dekarl: wagnerrp: any series that is also a movie will do, or do you insist on the movie being NSFW? ;) I hit it with The Mentalist first
[03:49:06] wagnerrp: nevermind. i was having issues with it resolving over ipv6, but my ipv6 tunnel isn't up
[03:49:15] wagnerrp: so it just sat there indefinitely trying to connect
[03:52:42] dekarl: doh, this IPv6 turns up as the cause often lately
[04:02:30] wagnerrp: it works, but i want to do some additional testing and cleanup before backporting it
[04:04:12] wagnerrp: inetrefs will now be stored in the form
[04:04:51] dekarl: as long as themoviedb-tv.oy being able to make sebse of it I'm happy ;)
[04:05:18] wagnerrp: the prepended bit is stripped back out before feeding it back into the grabber
[04:06:32] wagnerrp: i'll probably need to do the same thing with collections
[04:06:51] wagnerrp: although at the moment, i believe those are only used for movies
[04:06:52] jya: wagnerrp: lots of deleted code !
[04:07:29] wagnerrp: more lots of code shifted into a new file
[04:07:45] dekarl: wagnerrp: are we actually using collection data?
[04:08:29] wagnerrp: my videocollection table is currently empty
[04:08:38] wagnerrp: looks like the code is all there to handle it, we just never pull it
[04:20:57] MythBuild: build #862 of master-win8-msvc-2010–32bit is complete: Failure [4failed Configure and Build] Build details are at . . . t/builds/862 blamelist: Raymond Wagner < >
[04:21:05] wagnerrp: aww...
[04:23:43] wagnerrp: builds fine on ubuntu and freebsd so far
[04:24:06] wagnerrp: msvcpp doesn't seem to like that construction
[04:28:10] jya: wagnerrp: wouldn’t it be preferable to use the source name in the inetref rather than the script name?
[04:28:26] jya: like it comes from tmdb, and not
[04:28:31] jya: or
[04:28:56] wagnerrp: there's tmdb for movies, and tmdb for television, with independent and overlapping reference numbers
[04:29:15] jya: isn’t it called tvdb then?
[04:29:39] wagnerrp: tmdb basically cloned tvdb's database
[04:32:42] wagnerrp: it's not an issue yet, as we do not have a tmdb script for television
[04:33:12] wagnerrp: but should someone write one (or i spend an hour adapting to do so), we would need a tag that would distinguish the two
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[06:52:41] dekarl: ^- s/cloned tvdb/cloned the english data in tvdb/ :( everything else is missing
[06:59:06] jya: well, Lawrence has made some very nice changes indeed.
[06:59:16] jya: my liveTV transitions have never been that good
[06:59:23] jya: absolutely 0 stutter now
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[09:54:03] jya: has anything been changed to get UPnP music working in master?
[09:54:08] jya: it’s working now and wasn’t before
[09:54:15] jya: seeing that it doesn’t work in fixes/0.27..
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[10:19:57] paul-h: peper03: do you mind if I add back the conflicting recording text as an optional text area so themers can choose to use the button list or the text area or both
[10:24:56] stuartm: jya: it was only broken in master by that server/status port mixup which you've subsequently fixed in master
[10:25:31] jya: stuartm: i had tried it a couple of days ago when warpme mentioned that it wasn’t working. and that was after my fix
[10:26:29] stuartm: jya: which client? Some cache the old info, I had to force the android client I was using to stop/restart before it worked
[10:27:18] jya: VLC on my iphone
[10:27:41] stuartm: let me try vlc on android
[10:28:04] jya: with 0.27?
[10:28:51] stuartm: thought we were still talking about master, let me boot my 0.27 backend
[10:29:15] jya: oh, i mentioned master, because 2 days ago it wasn’t working, and now it is
[10:30:19] stuartm: right, your port typo fix was the reason it was broken in master – no idea about 0.27, although it was working the last time I tried – shortly after 0.27 was released
[10:32:09] jya: yes, that’s what they are saying in the user list
[10:35:24] jya: btw, it wasn’t the port typo that made it wrong… but that the port number was converted into a QChar before being set in the url
[10:36:55] stuartm: was using the 6543 port here instead of 6544, maybe it was just falling back to that though
[10:37:42] stuartm: for some reason my 0.27 backend isn't responding to service discovery, makes it harder ...
[10:37:55] jya: that 6543 vs 6544 was an issue for the slave backend
[10:38:12] jya: lots of issues :)
[10:41:42] jya: maybe I forgot to backport something… which is weird.
[10:45:47] stuartm: jya: works here, with v0.27.1-14-g2720f45
[10:45:49] jya: stuartm: is it working for you upnp ?
[10:45:55] jya: 0.27.1 yes
[10:45:58] jya: issue is after 0.27.1
[10:46:01] stuartm: haven't upgrade that frontend to 0.27.2 yet
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[10:46:39] jya: 0.27.3 was supposed to have fixed it (well, I had hoped)
[10:47:18] stuartm: upgrading to latest -fixes now
[10:50:09] stuartm: jya: anything in the backend log?
[10:50:26] jya: haven’t checked
[10:50:37] jya: here is the thread on the user list
[10:51:16] jya: . . . /365489.html
[10:55:15] stuartm: still working with 0.27.3
[10:55:46] stuartm: hmm, forgot to clear the client cache, might be a good idea to make sure
[10:57:51] stuartm: nope, definitely working with 0.27.3
[10:58:10] stuartm: unable to use VLC, doesn't seem to include a upnp client in the android version that I can find
[10:58:11] jya: is it ?
[10:58:16] jya: ok
[10:58:25] jya: how did you clear the cache?
[10:59:25] stuartm: Settings > Apps > {name of app} > Clear Cache
[10:59:46] stuartm: also forced it to stop running (if applicable), then restart
[11:00:13] stuartm: I'm testing with BubbleUPnP on Android, just about to try vlc on the desktop
[11:00:27] jya: I have 0.27.3 here, it is definitely not working
[11:00:31] jya: it works with master
[11:00:49] stuartm: MythTV Version : v0.27.3-5-gdbb4ef3
[11:01:07] jya: I have one version on that machine: your virgin suicide :)
[11:01:24] jya: MythTV Version : v0.27.3
[11:01:35] jya: a later version?
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[11:02:01] jya: nothing in later commit explaining a change in upnp
[11:02:09] jya: only made a change on ipv6
[11:02:16] jya: and that’s not used with upnp
[11:02:40] peper03_: paulh: Have at it, by all means :)
[11:03:48] peper03_: paulh: You could probably do it with a 'depends' and a bit of fiddling to make sure the buttonlist isn't visible.
[11:06:38] stuartm: upnp in desktop vlc (2.1.2) just seems buggy, nothing really works, not even with master
[11:06:57] jya: stuartm: yes, I know that.. that’s why I’m using my iphone.. works well normally
[11:07:02] jya: and I tried with another upnp client
[11:07:06] jya: same deal
[11:07:38] stuartm: strange
[11:08:37] peper03_: paul-h: See above (sorry, wrong nick)
[11:11:15] stuartm: still don't see the difference between a list and a textarea :/
[11:12:19] peper03_: In what way?
[11:15:13] jya: stuartm: in mythtv 0.27, where do you define the path to music ?
[11:15:20] jya: for the upnp server?
[11:15:57] paul-h: stuartm: I just want to see the conflict warning text not the list of complicating recordings
[11:16:26] stuartm: jya: same place as for mythmusic itself, with the default menu it's a little buried: Setup > Media Settings > Music Settings (somewhere there)
[11:16:31] jya: ah paul-h : probably the best person to ask
[11:16:42] jya: that define the path used by the backend?
[11:17:18] stuartm: jya: yes, the upnp code just used the path in the database belonging to the plugin
[11:17:26] jya: ok cool
[11:17:29] jya: let’s try again
[11:19:15] stuartm: which also meant that the path to the files had to be identical on all frontends and the backend, for upnp to work the files couldn't be local to a remote frontend unless you made that directory accessible to the backend via the same path with samba/nfs
[11:19:35] stuartm: with the storage group support things a lot simpler
[11:19:42] stuartm: things are
[11:19:49] jya: well, all I care about here is upnp
[11:19:52] jya: so not an issue
[11:20:34] stuartm: so set the path, rescan, then refresh in the upnp client
[11:20:35] jya: do you have to restart the backend after a rescan?
[11:26:42] jya: stuartm: ah.. it works now..
[11:28:08] stuarta: we don't half make things difficult sometimes
[11:28:23] jya: and now my ipmi interface doesn’t answer…
[11:28:46] jya: oh well.. will power it off another time (in use now) so can’t do anything anymor
[11:31:40] stuartm: stuarta: that was 0.27, 0.28 is much better
[11:32:47] stuartm: one of the reasons we were pushing to make everything use storage groups was that it makes things much simpler, no more nfs mounts for every frontend etc
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[12:30:39] paul-h: stuartm: just noticed something odd when switching to the idle screen from the menu it only seems to work in the top level main menu screen
[12:32:34] stuartm: paul-h: working here with master as of a couple of days ago
[12:35:30] paul-h: So if you go up one level in the main menu you can still press menu and select 'Enter standby mode' and it works?
[12:36:33] stuartm: yes, tried 2/3 levels just to be sure
[12:37:15] stuartm: hmm, ok, not working in plugin menus
[12:38:25] paul-h: Ah yeah it's the plugin menus that don't work I hadn't realised that
[12:38:26] stuartm: well specifically not Setup > Media Settings > Music Settings
[12:40:12] paul-h: So far only found the music menu that 's not working
[12:40:35] paul-h: Using the classic menu layout
[12:42:22] paul-h: Actually MythArchive and MythZoneminder menus don't work either
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[13:04:29] paul-h: It's amazing how any of this stuff ever works I'm completely lost in the callback stuff
[13:12:03] paul-h: stuartm: it's simply because the top level menus add TVMenuCallback as the call back function but the plugins that add there own menus use there own callback function
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[13:29:40] stuartm: ah
[13:30:45] stuartm: the callback stuff for the plugins/menus is ugly, I started re-writing it to be a little cleaner at one point but other things took precedence
[14:07:47] stichnot: jya: I noticed you committed LVR's d40411ee9887057d08d408a43539ab4c848d7fe3 which I assume is #10848
[14:07:47] ** MythLogBot **
[14:08:30] stichnot: I think there are at least 2 problems (from distant memory unfortunately)
[14:09:10] stichnot: First, it only works with 1 or 2 channel audio, so e.g. 5.1 gives garbage.
[14:10:34] stuarta: stichnot: that's definitely the ticket
[14:10:36] stichnot: Second, I think it should take the average over a small window around the current playback point
[14:11:02] stichnot: I think that the levels displayed when seeking forward versus backward are inconsistent
[14:11:07] stichnot: Again, this is all from memory
[14:12:13] stichnot: Also, it would be good to migrate that to a themeable component so that it can be used during playback and not just editing
[14:13:12] stichnot: and there may be a lot of code duplication between that and the existing audio visualizer that is used (only?) for mythmusic
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[18:41:54] paul-h: stuartm, peper03: did we come to any conclusion on whether we should still show the idle screen if the idleTimeoutSecs setting is not set?
[18:43:10] paul-h: At the moment if idleTimeoutSecs is set to 0 or not set the FE goes into idle mode but the idle screen isn't shown
[18:51:39] peper03: paul-h: If the timeout is set to zero, the idle timeout timer is started with a default value, but MythMainWindow::IdleTimeout doesn't do anything.
[18:51:59] peper03: Is there somewhere else putting the FE into idle mode?
[19:07:26] paul-h: peper03: this is the problem here . . . ow.cpp#n2757 if idleTimeoutSecs is set to 0 the idle screen is never shown
[19:08:24] paul-h: That is the BE idle time not the FE idle time
[19:08:48] peper03: paul-h: Ah yes, you're right. That's the second time I've misread that bit of code...
[19:11:26] peper03: Although technically it's still ok, isn't it? If the frontend idle timeout is set to zero, you won't get to that line of code – i.e. the frontend will not idle.
[19:12:39] peper03: It only gets strange if FE idle time != 0 but the BE idle time == 0...
[19:16:21] peper03: Does entering standby on the FE actually do anything? I mean, I can see it allows shutdown and updates the UI state tracker, but does that actually trigger anything, or allow something else to trigger at some point?
[19:17:43] peper03: Does entering standby allow a combined FE/SBE to be shutdown? idleTimeoutSecs only applies to the MBE, doesn't it?
[19:21:18] paul-h: Don't know about the FE idle stuff but mythwelcome would allow any FE to shutdown with the master BE
[19:22:23] paul-h: Don't really know where Stuart is going with this not sure he knows himself :)
[19:22:46] peper03: I'm certainly getting confused!
[19:23:44] peper03: I think we need a matrix of the different combinations (stand-alone FE, combined FE/MBE, combined FE/SBE, BE idle timeout, FE idle timeout etc.) and the expected results.
[19:25:47] peper03: At the moment, there's nothing to shut a frontend down. It may enter idle mode, which would allow a master backend to shutdown, but that won't cause the FE to shutdown.
[19:25:55] peper03: Obviously it's moot on a combined system :)
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[19:27:14] peper03: stuartm mentioned that some people want their frontends to stay on even if the MBE disappears. Seems a bit pointless to me but maybe I'm not thinking out of the box :)
[19:31:54] paul-h: I can't be arsed with this to my mind it broken so I'll just fix it in my fork and be done with it :)
[19:33:57] peper03: It feels like it has the potential to be simplified :)
[19:35:19] peper03: There's a system event for when the MBE shuts down so I'd say that would be the place for someone to add FE shutdown functionality if they want it.
[19:36:53] peper03: The number of permutations seems to be too large to try to cater for all possibilities directly in the code. There's always going to be some scenario we've missed, and keeping track of them all is just going to be a nightmare.
[19:37:21] natanojl: peper03: Isn't there already code for that? Check IdleScreen:customEvent
[19:38:27] peper03: natanojl: So there is.
[19:39:34] peper03: Where's that setting set? Or is there no UI for it?
[19:40:02] natanojl: In mythwelcome
[19:40:09] natanojl: I think ;)
[19:40:13] peper03: Yep, just found it :)
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[19:44:01] stuartm: peper03: I did? Don't remember that and it doesn't make sense to me either
[19:44:12] peper03: Without reasoning to the contrary, I'd still be inclined to remove that code and let the user use the 'MBE shutdown' system event.
[19:48:57] stuartm: peper03: the system event isn't relayed to the frontends is it? And if it was, then they have to set it up individually for each frontend, copying whatever script they are using to every machine and repeating the steps, the "ShutdownWithMasterBE" setting at least simplifies the process
[19:49:17] stuartm: although it does need to be exposed per-frontend, or globally in the backend
[19:49:38] peper03: stuartm: This was the conversation: but I obviously got my neurons a bit crossed!
[19:50:37] peper03: stuartm: I have no idea if that system event is relayed to the frontends. I just had a look in the list in the frontend setup, so I assumed it would be.
[19:51:21] peper03: I would think that people would want to configure it on a per-frontend basis anyway, and in general they're just going to call 'shutdown'.
[19:51:45] stuartm: right, I wasn't saying that people would want to do that, just that it is possible – and it's what mythwelcome allowed, specifically that you could start the backend from a frontend
[19:53:20] stuartm: you're not going to get a usable frontend if mythwelcome is shutdown, but at the very least I guess we should allow the frontend to stay awake so that people who want to wake everything up from the frontend can do that (once we've implemented the wake on lan support)
[19:53:36] peper03: I agree that a checkbox is simpler than having to know which system event to handle but it just feels like there are so many other configuration possibilities depending on the setup that it would be too complicated to cater for all of them.
[19:53:56] stuartm: allow the frontend to stay up, but forced into and unable to exit from the idle screen?
[19:54:21] peper03: Maybe it's because I don't have a clear picture in my head of all the different scenarios that I'm having trouble thinking of the best solution :)
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[19:56:36] stuartm: Paul is partly correct, I've no idea exactly what else we want from this stuff, I've already got from it most what I wanted and I long ago lost the will to have the idle stuff replace mythwelcome because so many people seemed to be opposed to merging that functionality
[20:03:42] peper03: My gut feeling is that the idle screen shouldn't be *that* complicated and that it should be possible to condense the different scenarios into a short, manageable list.
[20:05:01] dekarl: peper03: maybe they think of their frontends (without backend) as Airplay/UPNP renderers?
[20:05:15] stuartm: peper03: my aim with just about everything is to keep things simple for the user as much as possible, so I agree with that :)
[20:06:04] stuartm: FWIW I don't really remember the exact sequence of events, but I never set out to replace mythwelcome, iirc someone pointed out that the functionality I was implemented was already in mythwelcome so why didn't I just use that instead – I felt that having to run another application on each frontend just so you could allow the backend to shutdown was nuts and that requiring users to remember to exit every frontend when they were finished with it
[20:06:06] stuartm: was not user friendly
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[20:08:52] peper03: dekarl: If the frontend were usable without the backend, I could understand it. Of course, if the frontend is not running on a dedicated machine, I'd be annoyed if it suddenly shut down on me.
[20:08:59] stuartm: at some point, someone, maybe even me suggested that mythwelcome might just be redundant if it's core reason for existing was gone and I started adding some of the features of welcome to the IdleScreen but with the next release deadline looming and growing protests from a minority that mythwelcome really wasn't replaceable I rushed out the bits I wanted and left the rest unfinished
[20:10:00] stuartm: peper03: right, it has to be something configurable per frontend for that reason
[20:11:20] peper03: stuartm: What other functionality does mythwelcome offer? The ability to shutdown is already in mythfrontend. The only other things I can think of off the top of my head are the ability to run mythfilldatabase and to set daily wake-up times
[20:11:58] stuartm: peper03: I thought it had the option to start up the backend from the frontend via WoL
[20:12:34] peper03: Don't remember seeing that, but then, I don't remember seeing the option to shutdown with the MBE :)
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[20:14:54] stuartm: even if it doesn't, that's definitely something I'd like to see in the IdleScreen – being able to startup a frontend and then bring up the backend in the basement with it would be a big UX improvement
[20:15:26] peper03: Ah, that's because the 'shutdown with MBE' setting is only shown on a standalone system :)
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[20:18:18] peper03: stuartm: I can certainly see the attraction of that. Can that be done without requiring more settings? Should be possible to automatically get the MBE's MAC address, shouldn't it?
[20:18:28] stuartm: as far as WoL goes, we should attempt to automate that as much as possible
[20:18:39] stuartm: peper03: ^^ Heh, I was just about to say that
[20:20:07] stuartm: we should get the MAC automatically at backend startup and update the database, maybe broadcast it to frontends so they can store it locally in case the database is on the master backend machine
[20:20:40] peper03: I guess that's the case in most installations.
[20:24:50] sphery: FWIW, the current user-specified startup command approach has the big benefit that a) it doesn't rely on wake on LAN (so could call a script that uses X10 or whatever to turn on a system) and b) allows doing more than just waking the backend host (i.e. script wakes both the DB host, then after appropriate delay, the master backend host, then each remote backend host or network storage host or ...)
[20:25:16] sphery: the down side is that it requires configuration and a plan from the user
[20:25:33] sphery: . . . ngs.cpp#n343 and line 364 are the current settings
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[20:32:06] caelor: does the file channelscanner_cli.cpp in libmyth/channelscanner suggest some mythutil-like ability to scan channels
[20:44:08] sphery: caelor: mythtv-setup command-line interface (though I don't know how much is done on it or how well/whether it works, especially now--a couple years after it was last worked on)
[20:45:03] Luigi12_work (Luigi12_work!~quassel@ has joined #mythtv
[20:45:19] Luigi12_work: hello. I was wondering if any developers could answer a question about support lifecycle.
[20:45:56] Luigi12_work: I noticed that 0.25 is "end of life" and 0.26 is "end of support" (not sure the difference between the two). Anyway, I was wondering when EOL/EOS is planned to be for 0.27 (if there is a planned date)
[20:45:56] wagnerrp: only the latest release version is officially supported
[20:46:14] wagnerrp: serious issues might be fixed in 0.26
[20:46:28] Luigi12_work: so 0.27 is supported until 0.28 is released, unless there's serious issues
[20:46:30] wagnerrp: but very little will go back further than the 0.27-fixes branch
[20:46:31] caelor: ok, some history I'd forgotten (or missed). I'm investigating channel scanning with the hope of streamlining it. I don't reallly have any cpp background, so I'm stumbling around the code. It would be useful if the SDT was possibly cached during recordings, and available via the services api
[20:47:46] Luigi12_work: OK, I see the wiki has TBD for 0.28 release, so I guess there's no EOL date set yet.
[20:48:31] wagnerrp: expect new versions to typically be released around six months to a year after the previous
[20:49:53] Luigi12_work: ahh, that's why the Roadmap says 0.28 was expected 03/14/14 but is now 4 months late. So it's to be expected within another couple months.
[20:50:30] wagnerrp: probably some time late this year
[20:50:51] Luigi12_work: ok. Fantastic. Thank you very much!
[20:50:54] wagnerrp: there hasn't been any internal discussion yet on 0.28, and it's usually 2–3 months from that point until a release
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[20:51:25] Luigi12_work: just so you know why I'm asking, I'm gathering info on software that bundles FFmpeg to let the upstream FFmpeg devs know which branch they're using and how long they intend to support it
[20:51:31] wagnerrp: since there's a month or more of feature freeze, and usually a month prior to that of people frantically getting their projects in
[20:51:50] Luigi12_work: right. I'm a distro developer, so I'm familiar with that process :o)
[20:52:13] wagnerrp: just to clarify, we use our own internally packaged version of ffmpeg
[20:52:26] wagnerrp: so changes to the system's installed ffmpeg do not affect us
[20:52:30] Luigi12_work: yes, I checked 0.27.1 and it has 1.2.6
[20:52:55] Luigi12_work: right. As a distro developer, I do wish that it uses the system FFmpeg, but at least it's good to know what the bundled one is
[20:53:19] Luigi12_work: FFmpeg 1.2.7 fixes one security issue (just FYI)
[20:53:38] wagnerrp: historically, the ffmpeg ABI has been too dynamic to be able to support arbitrary system versions
[20:54:15] Luigi12_work: certainly the ABI changes...but if the API is stable enough that distros could compile it against arbitrary system versions, that'd be very helpful
[20:54:56] Luigi12_work: staying on top of ffmpeg security issues gets a lot harder when packages have bundled copies (hence my interest in all of this)
[20:56:08] wagnerrp: mythtv is pretty much wide open to attack by anyone on the same network
[20:56:20] wagnerrp: a security analysis would be horrific
[20:56:37] Luigi12_work: that's comforting :o)
[20:57:05] dekarl: Luigi12_work: our local copy still has patches that are not upstreamed, so using system ffmpeg is not an option at the moment
[20:58:11] Luigi12_work: dekarl: is it even possible to update the bundled copy to the newest from the respective ffmpeg branch?
[20:58:26] Luigi12_work: so for instance, building mythtv 0.27.1 with internal ffmpeg 1.2.7
[20:59:13] dekarl: one of our devs has to update our copy, apply all patches and fix all regressions
[20:59:33] wagnerrp: the last several syncs have been performed by jy a
[21:00:09] Luigi12_work: dekarl: are the patches kept separate from the ffmpeg code in the tarball? Avidemux works very similar to what you described, and in the avidemux tarball there's an ffmpeg tarball and a directory of local patches
[21:00:35] Luigi12_work: I see in mythtv it's not an ffmpeg tarball but a directory with the ffmpeg code, but are mythtv's patches already applied within, or kept separate?
[21:01:03] dekarl: Luigi12_work: I have no idea . . . ernal/FFmpeg
[21:01:27] dekarl: that's our patches tree, maybe there is some documentation on the update process around
[21:01:53] dekarl: but what would that be good for? We don't have the capacity to support patched distribution packages
[21:02:14] dekarl: I think its better to invest the time into upstreaming the local changes instead
[21:02:56] Luigi12_work: sure, I suppose that makes sense. It does beg the question about what's a distro to do.
[21:03:53] dekarl: provide integration into their startup/shutdown, integration with mysql etc pp
[21:04:35] Luigi12_work: well yes, that's the purpose of a package. But how to maintain that package over a distro's lifespan is what I'm concerned about
[21:04:58] dekarl: Hmm, I don't understand where the problem is
[21:05:11] stuartm: well personally I'd like to start seeing distros (packagers) stop trying to be the arbiters of what's right or wrong, if a project decides to use their own modified copy of a lib then that should be up to them and they assume the risks
[21:05:14] Luigi12_work: assuming the distro cares about fixing security issues and providing stability in their package set
[21:06:27] dekarl: then they are up for a lot of hard work... tracking the latest and greated security fixes *and* providing a stable package set sounds like a lot of work
[21:06:48] stuartm: packagers (unofficial debian etc) patching MythTV to use the system ffmpeg only results in breakage for MythTV users, i.e. it causes a lot more harm than good (Debian have a particular track record of making spectacularly bad decisions)
[21:07:22] Luigi12_work: well I'm with Mageia, and currently our mythtv does use the bundled ffmpeg (I'm not the mythtv packager, just the security team lead)
[21:07:47] Luigi12_work: but yes, maintaining a stable distro is a lot of work
[21:09:57] stuartm: Luigi12_work: packagers messing with upstream code is a particular pet hate of mine – to get commit privs on most projects requires a demonstration of capability and competence, but packagers can mess with that well written code before it reaches the end user, without any oversight, often causing bugs that users blame on the original developers
[21:10:06] stuartm: Luigi12_work: fwiw I'm a happy Mageia user
[21:10:22] dekarl: the quickest solution for that update is to bribe y ja to sync the relevant commits
[21:10:28] Luigi12_work: stuartm: yes, I recognize your name :o)
[21:11:13] stuartm: well mostly happy, lirc package is still broken :/
[21:11:29] Luigi12_work: dekarl: so, beyond that, I'm guessing your recommendation would be for distros to provide an update to the newest mythtv version whenever one becomes available
[21:11:31] dekarl: fwiw smolt still lists not a single mageia system, I wonder what is broken there :(
[21:12:14] Luigi12_work: dekarl: good question, I can pass it on to our packagers
[21:12:15] stuartm: Luigi12_work: that would be the ideal, Ubuntu already do, albeit through a PPA repo maintained by the MythBuntu team
[21:12:17] dekarl: Luigi12_work: that is what is left when all (currently) more unrealistic options are removed
[21:12:48] dekarl: Luigi12_work: the smolt question was more directed at stuartm, as I know that his system is in the database with proper Mageia attribution
[21:13:33] stuartm: we maintain a 'fixes' branch from which point releases on the stable branch are made, the fixes branch is considered to be stable and contains all the fixes which can be easily backported from Master, including security fixes
[21:14:08] Luigi12_work: dekarl: ok, good to know. I appreciate the feedback and I'll pass it on. Maybe something to keep in mind for the future, if it could be made easier for packagers to either build against system ffmpeg or update the local copy, it'd be helpful, but I'm sure mythtv upstream would like to always get the latest mythtv version out there :o)
[21:14:55] Luigi12_work: stuartm: yes, that's good too. The biggest problem for us is one mythtv branch might be maintained for a year, while a Mageia version is maintained for 18 months
[21:15:00] stuartm: dekarl: I should have a lot at the smolt code, the 'Other' group appearing so high in those ratings seems suspicious
[21:15:26] dekarl: stuartm Other includes Mint
[21:15:44] dekarl: and Gentoo
[21:15:52] stuartm: dekarl: Fedora?
[21:16:00] Luigi12_work: stuartm: speaking of security fixes for mythtv itself, are these announced anywhere?
[21:16:43] stuartm: Luigi12_work: not currently, we can set up a security mailing list if that would help
[21:17:34] Luigi12_work: stuartm: OK. Even just listing them in release announcements or somewhere on the wiki would be fine.
[21:17:36] dekarl: I'm not sure if that makes sense with the current architecture where every client can set any command line for the backend to run with its privileges
[21:17:49] Luigi12_work: if the fixes are CVE-worthy, they could also be sent to the oss-security mailing list, such that CVEs could be assigned
[21:18:06] stuartm: just last week I patched for the LZO vulnerability, although that hasn't yet been backported to the stable branch because I'm awaiting reports on it's stability, that code is only used by users with really old analogue video capture cards
[21:18:15] dekarl: we could announce when we update our internal copies of external code
[21:19:01] Luigi12_work: stuartm: perhaps coling wouldn't mind your help with maintaining the mythtv package in mageia.  :o)
[21:19:47] stuartm: Luigi12_work: that's a possibility, although not presently one we really have the manpower for, fixing issues is one thing, writing up a report and submitting it to the relevant body takes time
[21:24:17] stuartm: we don't currently see MythTV as a 'secure' application, it was never intended to run directly on an internet facing interface for example – to do so would be disastrous, but we do fix a class of security issues which have non-security implications – buffer overflows, memory corruption, deadlocks/crashes caused by external input etc
[21:26:12] stuartm: we use Coverity and other static analysis to detect issues that are missed by visual inspection
[21:29:24] Luigi12_work: yes I saw in...I think the 0.27.1 announcement that several issues found by Coverity were fixed. That's always nice to see :o)
[21:34:31] stuartm: good to see more Mageia people in here, Anssi has been lurking for a while
[21:34:46] dekarl: hm, still there and updated . . . 84be3b70139e showing nicely as "Mageia 4 thornicroft"
[21:34:49] stuartm: don't think Colin has had much time for MythTV
[21:35:17] Luigi12_work: he's been pretty busy lately
[21:36:57] stuartm: dekarl: yeah it's obviously a fault in the rules Smolt is using to aggregate the info, just add it to the hundred other things I'll have to make time for ;)
[21:38:04] dekarl: hmm, another thing to add, "make it easier for others to peek at all the non-public repos" ;)
[21:38:13] stuartm: dekarl: probably not the best time to start another discussion, but are there alternatives to Smolt now that it's officially dead
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[21:38:43] dekarl: the official alternatives are still in the "initial commit" phase :/
[21:38:50] stuartm: dekarl: that's probably one thing we'll sort out in the server move
[21:39:11] dekarl: "we are upstream now"
[21:39:24] stuartm: dekarl: doesn't Ubuntu have something based on hardinfo?
[21:39:50] ** stuartm is being lazy **
[21:41:08] dekarl: lol
[21:43:03] stuartm: still don't speak German :) Learning Italian atm
[21:44:06] dekarl: berlios was a german open source hosting site
[21:44:42] stuartm: ack
[21:45:22] Luigi12_work: thanks again for the feedback everyone. Goodbye :o)
[21:46:13] dekarl: ahh, "User database (created by local "system check")" looks like that went MIA, too
[21:46:51] Luigi12_work (Luigi12_work!~quassel@ has left #mythtv (" - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
[21:47:17] dekarl: but the german ubuntu wiki hints at and this site still exists
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[22:40:01] stuartm: doh, seems while amarok writes POPM tags with an email of "" it reads and updates only the first POPM tag it finds ... so my recent changes were for nought
[22:42:25] stuartm: and worse, it only actually reads the tag after it has updated it which is utterly pointless
[22:47:59] jya: stichnot: i only looked at the patches themselves. is that the AC3 you;re referring to… would have to decode the stream first I guess. wouldn’t be too complicated
[22:48:19] jya: not sure how accurate that would be however, when you’re working frame by frame
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[23:19:13] dmfrey: wagnerrp, are you around?
[23:20:33] dmfrey: sorry, wrong channel, will switch
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