MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

Current users (81):

aberrios, aloril, amessina, andreaz, Anssi, Beirdo, brfransen, buu, Captain_Murdoch, cesman, Chutt, clever, coling, cougar_s, dblain, dekarl, eee-blt, ElmerFudd, fetzerch, gary_buhrmaster, ghoti, Gibby, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, J-e-f-f-A, jams, jarle, jarryd, jheizer, jmusits, joki, jpharvey, jst, jwhite, kartouch, kc, kenni, knightr, kurre2, kwmonroe, laga, len_, MartinT, monkeypet, moparisthebest, MythBuild, MythLogBot, nameless`, nephyrin, neufeld, NightMonkey, nyloc, peper03, poptix, purserj, robink, rsiebert, ryan_turner|MTW, Seeker`, seld, Sharky112065, skd5aner, sphery, sraue, SteveGoodey, stuartm, superm1, tgm4883, toeb, tonsofpcs, tris, unforgiven512, wagnerrp, wahrhaft, Warped, wseltzer1, XDS2010_, xris, zentec, _charly_
Tuesday, April 8th, 2014, 00:03 UTC
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[00:46:55] jya: stuartm: anything that can be done to have progress bar work in any dimensions? in a notifications, such as the one used by AirPlay, you never see the progress bar
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[08:23:52] stuarta: morning all
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[09:25:55] stuartm: heh, the fact that the entire staff at Ciseco have decided to go to EELive and The Gadget Show is the reason why I'm still waiting for them to dispatch my new toys :/
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[09:30:09] stuartm: jya: I'll see what can be done
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[10:07:52] warpme: jya: I kick some tests with latest devel/ringbuffer and....I didn't see any difference.
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[10:30:40] stuartm: stuarta: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/08/runni . . . ritical_bug/
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[10:31:52] stuarta: stuartm: yeah, seen similar here in the office. done a few bits already
[10:32:16] stuarta: i keep getting booted off irc servers as they rotate them out to patch them
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[10:33:05] stuartm: ah, that'll be why I was booted a while back
[10:33:14] stuartm: didn't put 2+2 together :)
[10:33:22] stuarta: http://heartbleed.com/
[10:33:35] stuarta: stuartm: i receive wallops from the irc ops
[10:33:38] stuartm: "[Notice] -kloeri_- [Global Notice] Hi all. In the next few minutes we're going to restart a bunch of servers due to an openssl security vulnerability (CVE-2014–0160). This is unfortunately going to be very noisy but should be over with relatively quickly. Thanks for using freenode and have a good day. "
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[10:33:45] stuarta: yes that :)
[10:33:54] stuarta: that's a wallop
[10:33:54] stuartm: yeah, missed it in the noise
[10:34:10] stuartm: oh is it? :p
[10:34:49] stuartm: suppose I deserve that
[10:35:42] ** stuarta wallops stuartm **
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[10:49:43] stuarta: alcor is going for a reboot. pray it comes back
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[10:56:55] jya: warpme: you didn’t see any difference with normal master fixes/0.27 or with the previous devel/ringbuffer?
[10:57:49] jya: I’m going to be offline for a little while, but will read the log here
[10:59:15] jya: warpme: so is devel/ringbuffer okay now, no better than before my last fix, or worse (though i can’t imagine the fix having much impact as it’s a case we should never enter into)
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[11:01:54] warpme: jya: I compare devel/ringbuffer with and without 2a556c12f7
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[12:44:59] stuartm: lyngsat have changed their urls, icon grabber is broken
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[12:45:50] stuarta: sheesh, can they not put the servers they've already patched back into the dns rotation
[12:46:01] stuarta: and get rid of the ones they have yet todo
[12:47:34] stuartm: well that was easy to fix
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[13:17:14] stuartm: still surprised there are technically minded people who have never heard of a wiki – #12112
[13:17:14] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12112 **
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[13:24:01] warpme: jya: applying 2a556c12f7 don't make any difference for me. So sumarizing: with current devel/ringbuffer I have (1)higher rate of "looped still image" for old/new channel during channel change; (2)ocassional v.short X.org mode change and return to correct; (3)on one TV channel I ocassionally started to have just after channel change totally messed picture (I'll try catch this and provide You picture)
[13:24:09] stuarta: stuartm: that does not look like a technically minded person
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[13:25:07] stuartm: if they are using linux and installing mythtv, I tend to assume they aren't completely technically illiterate
[13:25:49] stuartm: even if they are a relative newbie
[13:26:35] stuarta: hah, there's a bloke on linkedin atm who is supposed a senior linux admin asking how to write a simple script
[13:29:10] stuarta: +to be
[13:40:39] ryan_turner|MTW: since it looks like this isnt all dev talk...
[13:40:39] ryan_turner|MTW: any recommendations on cheaper digital tv tuner cards that are pci-x? Im considering the hvr-1800
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[13:45:27] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta, stuartm: just for the record, although the register article suggests this, be sure to regenerate all your private keys after applying the openssl fix.... (and if you thought that ssl was protecting clear text passwords, change those passwords too....) That is what will be taking a bit of time to roll-out in the various infrastructures (presuming that the people actually understand the real implications). I'm just saying......
[13:48:08] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta, stuartm: Of course, it is likely that only 3 letter (OK, 4 letter agencies in the UK) have collected the data that makes this very interesting, but better be safe than ....
[13:52:30] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: re: senior admin/expert. You know what a expert is? Someone who has been dispatched (from the vendor/contractor) who you have not yet seen on-site [ and that you would now have an opinion of ]. It is an old "trick" to make you feel that they are treating your concerns seriously.
[13:52:51] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: I believe I have been told I have (a bit of) an attitude.
[13:53:03] stuarta: i define expert as somebody who know more than those in the same room
[13:53:20] stuarta: so if you know 1 thing, and everybody else knows 0, you are the "expert"
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[13:57:58] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: re: expert. Have you seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
[13:59:55] stuarta: what about http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/816659 . . . ction-system ?
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[14:16:54] stuarta: gary_buhrmaster: the pain with regenerating the private keys is having to regenerate the certs as well
[14:32:49] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: Yep. And while one is at it, move to PFS to minimize the (potentially future) decrypt surface. Probably. Unless a QC is actually exists in the (Utah?) data center [Fort Meade has been power "challenged" for some time now]
[14:33:08] dekarl: stuart* mind to kick Smolt on Alcor? Looks like it didn'T come up
[14:34:15] stuartm: never does :/
[14:35:00] stuarta: stuartm: i'll let you kick it
[14:35:04] stuartm: done
[14:35:21] stuartm: needs adding to the init
[14:36:29] dekarl: ohh, I wanted to look if we have hosts armel or armhf reports on there. looks like they fell behind the 90 cutoff and there's only one ppc left :(
[14:37:19] stuarta: sigh i still need to get everything to actually run behind nginx
[14:41:51] stuartm: well PPC is now a fringe architecture, not too surprising that it's fallen off the rankings
[14:42:23] stuartm: don't think there are too many F-35 pilots running mythfrontend in their cockpits
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[14:50:40] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: PPC is heavily used in embedded (automotive, last I looked, was big), and the PPC cores were "cheap" for licensing in FPGAs/ASICs (an important issue for "cost optimized" designs).
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[14:51:04] dekarl: MythTV running on one of the Mips boards in network gear would make for a nice IPTV recorder, too ;)
[14:51:16] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: Of course, ARM currently has mind-share, but PPC and MIPSs are still big in certain worlds. I attended EELive last week, and PPC and MIPS still get design wins (especially if the designers already have experience with them).
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[14:52:12] dekarl: thinking about it, the i.MX6 devices could make for nice mythtranscode "cut and convert MPEG-2 to H.264" devices
[14:53:09] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: Pretty sure that the first step will be to perform the (sphery?) suggested splitting of mythbackend into <x> and <y> and <z> and <recorder>. Most network MIPS processors are rather low performant.
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[14:56:47] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: The vivante GPU capabilities *is* most interesting for a cheap transcoder, but there are dedicated transcode chips that are even cheaper, and more capable. The ZenVerge ZN200/ZN2000 is one of the big players in the STB market for any-room DLNA support.
[14:59:53] clever: gary_buhrmaster: how much is it?
[14:59:57] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: but when I checked (a year or so ago), unless you were a "really big potential customer" all the SDKs were simply not available.
[15:01:30] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: (In theory they had a USB transcoder SDK at one time, along with an entire dev board).
[15:01:38] dekarl: it depends http://www.cavium.com/OCTEON-III_CN7XXX.html <- MIPS I was thinking of
[15:01:57] stuartm: gary_buhrmaster: right, but embedded in the sense of engine management, navigation systems etc, not in-car or home entertainment :) i.e. We'll not likely see much demand for running mythtv on that architecture any time soon
[15:02:43] stuartm: hence my comment about F-35 pilots :)
[15:02:45] dekarl: gary_buhrmaster: I find the i.MX6 interesting because there is documentation and reference code for GPU/VPU freely available
[15:02:54] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: "In car entertainment" systems are a hot ticket (for some markets).
[15:03:33] dekarl: and because they are becoming easily available in many designs
[15:03:39] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: The VPU is not open source (there is an "open source" kernel shim, which throws all the work to a binary blob user space driver).
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[15:05:12] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: There *is* work to reverse engineer the GPU functions for (the usual) OpenGL support, but it (last I checked) did not fully support the GC2000 (higher end). But it was getting closer.
[15:05:51] dekarl: gary_buhrmaster: that's still more then what we got when I last looked into embedded chips (where even the kernel header's were NDA'd)
[15:06:56] gary_buhrmaster: clever: Never got far enough to determine pricing in "10000's" quantity (which is the only numbers they cared about).
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[15:07:33] clever: gary_buhrmaster: i recently discovered something new, http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-compu . . . new-product/
[15:07:45] clever: the entire pi on a so-dimm sized board
[15:08:08] clever: add a usb ethernet and you can use it as a transcoding slave, hardware decode and encode
[15:08:17] clever: less total parts then a full pi
[15:12:59] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: Since many of the embedded VPU people seem to be targeting gstreamer support, and often shipping it with their products, it might be nice to consider qtmultimedia (qml) for MythTV, since qtmultimedia uses gstreamer under the covers, and one could get hardware decode "for free".
[15:14:01] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: Except, of course, qtmultimedia does not (yet) use gstreamer-1.0, which is needed for the hardware decoders shipping.
[15:15:14] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: Perhaps just using the qt-gstreamer framework for additional (hardware) video decoders would be a first step. All conjecture on my part. I have not really looked at anything in detail.
[15:22:39] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: Re: cavium. The real power from that design is the dedicated network forwarding engine (they call it an application engine, or something like that) that does all the hard work for networking (forwarding, lookups, etc.). There are a couple of [small cheap] router startups using it.
[15:23:41] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: It is great, unless you need it to do something more complicated than the dedicated hardware can do, and then throughput drops to slow.
[15:48:58] Chutt: if you guys are wanting arm support, this should run the frontend rather well, assuming the multimedia stuff can be integrated (normal opengl, quad a15, full gstreamer/omx support libs): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813190005
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[15:59:07] stuarta: Chutt: they look nice
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[16:02:24] stuartm: it's a real shame we've lost those devs who knew the graphics side, we lost a lot of ground to projects such as XBMC as a result :(
[16:03:44] gary_buhrmaster: Chutt: At EELive, Intel introduced the minnowboard max, at an even better price, which might be a good choice for a low end FE. Atom (single/dual core), HD4000 graphics. I was unable to convince any of the booth gals to giving me one as a demo (can't blame a guy for trying).
[16:03:51] dekarl: Chutt, but no SATA at close to 200USD :(
[16:04:08] stuartm: I mean there were other reasons as well, but that was one of the big ones
[16:06:06] Chutt: dekarl, ? that board has sata
[16:06:57] stuartm: gary_buhrmaster: but then Chutt works for Nvidia so he's going to recommend the stuff he knows :)
[16:07:02] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: I am not asking for a recap (I know the public side), but internally, did the remaining devs do a postmortem after the leaving(s) to determine if changes (to the project/membership/process) would improve things?
[16:07:06] Chutt: of course =)
[16:07:25] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: re: chutt. Ah, did not know that.
[16:07:47] stuartm: are Intel graphics any better these days ? Or are the drivers still in a chaotic state
[16:08:09] stuarta: they are a lot better
[16:08:20] Chutt: the tk1 should eventually support vdpau as well
[16:08:32] stuartm: gary_buhrmaster: of course, and we even invited a number of people onboard to add fresh blood – yourself included ;)
[16:09:08] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: Yes, and no. Depends on the specifics.
[16:09:22] dekarl: Chutt: ohhh and its in plain sight, how could i miss that :/
[16:09:41] stuarta: stuartm: i've got it on both my laptop and mac mini
[16:09:47] stuarta: both work fine
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[16:11:33] dekarl: chutt, if it does VDPAU then it might be a nice board to get started with frontend support on ARM.
[16:11:36] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: I think I have stated before (on the public record?) that while I use the MythTV FE, I have to say XBMC looks good. And they have achieved "mind share".
[16:11:46] Chutt: dekarl, it doesn't at the moment
[16:13:29] stuartm: gary_buhrmaster: we still miss our benevolent dictator, so at times it's fair to say that we lack a strong plan
[16:13:39] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: I still get (random) GPU hangs on my intel graphics. But the 1.3.0 driver (I have not yet installed it), has a number of fixes in that area. Maybe fixed. Maybe not.
[16:13:46] Chutt: stuartm, sorry! :p
[16:14:18] stuartm: and even with the devs we have, many have families now and less spare time to contribute
[16:14:22] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: I volunteer to be a dictator. Not sure about the benevolent part.
[16:15:17] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: re: families. Yeah, I have noticed that. And that is great (for all those with families). Does tend to cut into those late night coding sessions.
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[16:16:17] stuarta: oh i wish for late night coding sessions
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[16:22:25] stuartm: personally I'm continually torn between fixing known issues and working on new features in what free time I have available – users want bugs and usability issues addressed (and so do I), but they also want new features with each release even if they won't actually use them
[16:22:42] Chutt: gary_buhrmaster, the minnowboard looks neat, but it's rather slow. better than a r-pi, though.
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[16:26:11] gary_buhrmaster: Chutt: Yeah, the (old) minnowboard is (rather) low end/slow. The minnowboard MAX looks more interesting. Still going to be slow, but not quite so bad. Maybe. Until people can actually get their hands on one, it is still conjecture.
[16:28:00] stuartm: I do in theory like the challenge of improving frontend performance so that it can run better on those slow devices, but there's little point in investing the time unless someone also takes the time to add hardware playback support to Myth
[16:29:37] stuartm: still want to toy with changing the image cache over to compressed textures instead of pngs etc
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[16:35:47] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: If you are around, look for my PM.
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[21:43:33] stuartm: dekarl: by coincidence, justinh was just mentioning in -users that he worked with iMX6 and that apparently it wasn't very good
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[21:43:59] stuartm: "Pile of steaming junk" were his exact words
[21:45:42] stuartm: he's an embedded systems engineer, or was until recently, has since moved on to designing cutting edge sensors for oil pipelines
[21:47:11] dekarl: I'm not sure I agree that "only 470mbit/s out of a GigE interface" is a good reason for that conclusion ;)
[21:47:18] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: the iMX6 has its issues. So do (pretty much) all those embedded SoCs.
[21:47:51] dekarl: but then I'm only judging from reading not from practical experience
[21:48:30] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: It is 470Mb/s only of you avoid some of the edge cases, and you (I forget now) have to (or have to not?) enabled flow control in your switch.
[21:49:44] stuartm: dekarl: he couldn't get 100mbit/s out of it and apparently the manufacturer concurred, but since I know nothing of these things and he's only one channel over I'll leave him to expand on that if you're at all interested
[21:50:32] stuartm: just thought it a coincidence that it gets mentioned twice in one evening by two different people :)
[21:50:40] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl, stuartm: In almost all cases, there are "workarounds" for a lot of the limitations/features, but all too often the limitations/features are not (well) known in the org until too late (too close to "ship" time).
[21:55:19] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm, dekarl: In particular the ethernet issues are "well known/documented" in a number of the places where such things get discussed. But, of course, those places tend not to be in the Freescale marketing glossyware (and I do not recall it in the spec sheets either, or in the reference designs). But I did not look too closely at the reference design materials.
[21:59:10] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: Rule #39: There is no such thing as coincidence
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[22:00:49] stuartm: it's all well outside my area of expertise
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[22:04:25] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: I thought (from an earlier post) you were waiting for an embedded toy.
[22:04:39] stuartm: coming very late to the micro-electronics world and only because I wanted to do something interesting with a Pi and then the other day I discovered the XRF radios which seem like they could be fun
[22:05:46] stuartm: gary_buhrmaster: nothing particularly serious or complicated
[22:06:32] stuartm: picked on some stuff that seemed just about to be doable at my skill level with a little light reading
[22:07:55] stuartm: basic soldering, simple protocol and then the bit I'm actually comfortable with – writing some software to use the hardware, albeit at a high level
[22:08:06] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: (short range) radio stuff can be fun.
[22:09:27] stuartm: that's what I'm hoping :)
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[22:14:21] stuartm: http://shop.ciseco.co.uk/rf-module-range/ << This is the stuff I've ordered btw
[22:15:25] stuartm: which gets more interesting when you throw in these – http://shop.ciseco.co.uk/xrf-relaybase-also-f . . . itching-kit/
[22:18:33] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: Nice. There is also various ways to connect a arduino module to the RPi, which allows you to use all the arduino modules too.
[22:20:15] stuartm: aye, looked at a few of those
[22:20:16] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: RSN the arduino tre should be announced, which looks to be a BeagleBone Black with a arduino avr. best (and worst?) of both worlds.
[22:23:24] stuartm: may go with some arduinos for minor processing work should I want to build on my initial plans in the future, though for now I envision keeping the Pi as the hub/brains if only because writing the bulk of the software with a nice GUI in C++ is my idea of fun :)
[22:25:18] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: Either the RPi or a BeagleBone Black (BBB) is a good choice for having enough power to run a (real) system.
[22:25:24] dekarl: gary_buhrmaster: seen the UDOO?
[22:25:24] stuartm: would consider the BeagleBone Black if I needed another computer somewhere in the mix
[22:26:57] stuartm: but one potential advantage of the R-Pi right now is that they've got the official dsi touchscreen due to launch soon, and I quite like the idea of a wall mounted touchscreen interface to a home automation system
[22:27:28] stuartm: dsi means the GPIO is still free for the other bits such as the radio
[22:27:49] gary_buhrmaster: dekarl: re: UDOO. Only in pictures.
[22:30:57] dekarl: hmm, so ProgInfo is for writing the guide to the DB and ProgramInfo for reading? /me scratches head while searching for inetref ;)
[22:32:54] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: I saw a couple of BBB touchscreens at EELive in the demo area. Too many others in the area to ask about the specifics or ship dates (they were showing a cute Qt demo though, that was quite responsive).
[22:33:46] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: It is all part of the new IoT focus (IoT, of course, is early in the Gartner Hype Cycle. So everything is somehow connected to the IoT).
[22:46:39] stuartm: gary_buhrmaster: there are a few touchscreens floating around for both platforms, but those that I looked at tend to dominate the GPIO making it harder to add on other stuff e.g. you can have a screen, or a radio, but not both
[22:48:19] stuartm: that said, I'm sure the stuff in the pipeline will be largely equivalent in capability, it still comes back to the fact that I happen to have a Pi doing nothing at the moment so that's what I'll be using :)
[22:49:33] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: Availability is 9/10 of the battle.
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