MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

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Thursday, October 24th, 2013, 00:10 UTC
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[02:21:57] stichnot: My new zbox id41 arrived (for the in-laws room). It looks compact and attractive. I hope it can run with the fan disconnected like my other ION boxes.
[02:22:44] stichnot: also the obnoxious case LED has to go...
[02:30:58] dblain: stuartm: Regarding you commit to make StartTime all lowercase...I missed that use case where we pass the parameter map to the script. Should I re-evaluate how to handle the param's case?
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[02:52:42] tonsofpcs: stichnot: what do you run on them? mythfrontend?
[02:59:25] knightr: stuartm, MythIWS (Internal Web Server)? :-)
[03:02:35] knightr: (I guessed I "played" too much with IHS (IBM HTTP Server) at work to suggest that... :-) )
[03:02:42] knightr: s/guessed/guess
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[05:44:19] stichnot: tonsofpcs: yes, they're dedicated mythfrontend machines – diskless, netbooting, no fans or moving parts. Hopefully I can run the ID41 without a fan.
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[11:51:09] stuartm: dblain: it's not a big problem, I can hide the case difference by implementing a GetArg() function which allows you to still use the expected case
[11:53:58] stuartm: dblain: I started to add the recording rule methods of DVR to ScriptableDVR last night, I thought it would be nicer if Add/UpdateRecordSchedule accepted the RecRule pointer instead of 40+ arguments for the scriptable API but for some reason I can't get it to compile (wasn't sure it would work, but it should have compiled)
[12:10:10] stuartm: dblain: nm, user error
[12:10:24] stuarta: i like a good pebkac
[12:10:29] stuarta: :)
[12:14:38] stuartm: it was a good one :)
[12:19:20] stuarta: excellent
[12:19:28] stuarta: always good for a chuckle they are
[12:27:55] stuartm: dblain: fwiw, as much as I like the idea of perfect symmetry between the http and scriptable api, it seems silly to deconstruct the recrule object instead of passing back the pointer
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[12:56:19] tonsofpcs: stichnot: let me know how it works out, I'm thinking of doing similar for the home theater when I move (currently I have the backend machine running the frontend for the HT but I'll want to have it in a different room now that I'll have space)
[13:19:09] stichnot: tonsofpcs: if it works as well as my ION-ITX-C frontends, I'll be very happy. Regarding the fan, I noticed that when it powers on, there's a 1-second burst of the fan (and I definitely wouldn't want to hear that all the time), but then the fan stops when it's idle.
[13:29:15] stuartm: sphery: time to drop the settings editor from mythweb?
[13:35:08] stichnot: stuartm: I love that page :(
[13:36:05] stichnot: as dangerous as it is...
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[13:37:50] stichnot: but if you're talking about mythweb 2.0, then sure
[13:39:37] stuartm: stichnot: as I'm sure sphery will testify, a large number of users mess about with settings they don't understand and then blame MythTV when it breaks
[13:41:06] stichnot: yeah, I'm just speaking selfishly. I can accomplish what I need (easy searchability of the settings) just by running mysql inside emacs.
[13:41:19] stuartm: it's bad enough when they are doing it through the UI, but at least there we can restrict or validate the values they choose, direct DB editing through mythweb is uncontrollable
[13:41:52] stuartm: same for the 'channel editor'
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[15:13:11] dblain: stuartm: About a year ago I started adding support to pass complex datatypes to service methods. Just neer finished it. It would obviously require the parameters to be supplied in the request body ( post only) since it would be hard to represent on a query string.
[15:13:34] dblain: I do plan on eventually continuing that work.
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[15:15:51] stuartm: dblain: that will be good
[15:15:52] dekarl-work: We really need a web service to collect the stream URLs, guide data etc, and wrap everything into a usable form that does not require an engineering degree to setup a HLS recording with some internet streams... :(
[15:16:09] dblain: stuartm: the other choice I was also looking to was to support a rpc-XXX serializer/protocol
[15:18:17] tonsofpcs: stichnot: so I'm guessing that it would be fine then as the fan may spin up while running but the projector fan in my case will be putting 29dBA out anyway.
[15:20:07] stichnot: I just got the network wired up and mythfrontend running, and the fan seems to be going slowly even when not playing back
[15:20:35] stichnot: Video looks good, but I haven't gotten audio working at all yet...
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[15:26:59] stuartm: I'm a little stumped on how to handle the in-guide scheduling feedback, there's no way of knowing how long the reschedule will take and continuously polling is a very bad idea
[15:28:14] stuartm: a not much better idea would be a 'waitForReschedule' option in the services API, which would block until the reschedule occurs – wouldn't affect the responsiveness of the page as it would be done in Ajax
[15:28:14] ** dblain better get working on websocket support! **
[15:28:48] stuartm: dblain: heh, I wasn't nudging you honest, but yes, the websocket stuff would be the best way of handling it
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[15:29:18] dblain: stuartm: I'd go with wait in the service method as a short term solution.
[15:29:28] stuartm: ok
[15:29:37] dblain: We are only talking about a second or so, right?
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[15:37:51] gigem: stuartm: One thing I've considered is to have the scheduler return a sequence number for every schedule request. SCHEDULE_CHANGE events would include the highest sequence number that has been handled. Clients could then wait for an event with a sequence number greater than or equal to what they are interested in.
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[15:39:20] stuartm: gigem: that would work well with the websocket stuff
[15:40:24] gigem: Okay, it's now on my TODO list.
[15:40:59] stuartm: dblain: varies, but yeah, a MATCH request for an 'All Showings' rule here takes 1.3 seconds
[15:41:26] gigem: Feel free to pester me about. It should be a simple enough change that I should get to it sooner rather than later.
[15:42:13] stuartm: just figuring out how best to wait on the scheduler :)
[15:44:03] stuartm: guess the event is the obvious choice
[15:49:59] stuartm: no, that's the dumb choice, can't wait block waiting for an event, that's the whole point of the event system
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[16:36:36] stuartm: dblain: the other day you mentioned supporting includes in the script files? Was that something you were working on?
[16:39:47] dblain: stuartm: I haven't started it. wasn't sure if you were going to implement it. Let me know either way.
[16:40:49] dblain: Shouldn't be too hard to implement
[16:42:11] stuartm: it would be useful for some common functions, e.g. I have one that converts the integer recstatus value from the Recording datatype to a usable string
[16:47:19] stuartm: might not be a bad idea to add that particular one as a utility function of the services API itself, or even to have Recording return it as a string, or object containing both the string and id
[16:49:06] stuartm: can even offer translation using the clients Accept-Language
[16:49:51] dblain: I had support for the serializer to return the enum name, but it required either duplicating the enum into the data class or moving the enum system wide... but I digress.
[16:50:16] dblain: Something like that function, would be best implemented as a service method.
[16:50:59] dblain: I see server side includes for things like shared qsp that you want to inject into the current page on the server
[16:51:22] robink_ is now known as robink
[16:52:26] dblain: Another solution can be a library of scripts that we have available to the server to execute for small functions not approriate for a full service implementation
[16:54:05] dblain: stuartm: it would be a way to create a sort of website function library that isn't directly exposed to 3rd party clients
[16:56:05] stuartm: dblain: yeah, that would be good and what I was thinking of too
[16:57:04] dblain: So, if I had to prioritize, What order do you want the following features added:
[16:57:25] stuartm: dblain: better examples of the sort of utility functions I had in mind are isValidObject(var) and toCapitalCase(str) that I'm currently using in guide.qsp
[16:57:29] dblain: 1) True Server side includes <!--include virtual="file" -->
[16:57:49] dblain: 2) server side script includes (our own syntax)
[16:58:56] dblain: stuartm: I'm assuming you want those on the server side since a simple <script> entry will get you them on the client.
[16:58:57] stuartm: 2) would be of more immediate use
[16:59:24] stuartm: dblain: aye, those would be server-side
[16:59:55] dblain: ok, that should be simple enough. Do you have a recommended syntax?
[17:00:10] stuartm: dblain: whatever you think best
[17:01:40] dblain: Would it be too confusing to use java's import keyword with a relaive file path?
[17:01:57] stuartm: just needs to be able to handle a relative path, ideally from the html/ root e.g. I can include "/misc/foo.qsp" from "/tv/guide.qsp"
[17:02:28] stuartm: dblain: wouldn't confuse me, I can't speak for other people
[17:02:34] dblain: I think it would be best to limit it to .jsp files only?
[17:03:18] dblain: qsp's would follow a more traditional html server side include
[17:04:03] dblain: Actually, I would expect the new import to work on standard .js files since it's all running on the server
[17:04:41] dblain: stuartm: would that be an ok limitation?
[17:04:49] stuartm: I think so ...
[17:05:33] dblain: That way we can avoild processing the <% symbols and just add the script file to the qtscript engine.
[17:05:54] stuartm: the similarity between javascript (aka ECMA Script) and QTScript (aka ECMA Script) does make this all a little confusing :)
[17:06:28] stuartm: dblain: plain JS would mean we could use them both client and server side, that would be great
[17:06:44] dblain: especally when it comes to qjs files... some parts run on the server while the rest and runs on the client
[17:07:38] dblain: I need to take care of a few things, I will try to work on it in a few hours
[17:08:02] stuartm: dblain: ok, there's really no hurry
[17:09:37] stuartm: I'll need to come back to what I've already done and what I'm working on now to clean it all up, so for the moment I don't mind having to copy/paste functions into new files
[17:13:41] stuartm: I'm still at a prototype/proof of concept stage, hoping that once I've got something that minimally replaces the present mythweb that others will jump in and help complete/improve it
[17:14:23] stuartm: there's been a LOT of scepticism in the past about moving mythweb into the backend :/
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[17:30:55] dblain: stuartm: I would go as far has hostility... some people don't what that kind of functionaliry in the backend. I think it will make the user experiance so much nicer
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[17:36:23] ** dblain is ashamed at all the errors in that last sentance. **
[17:45:29] stuartm: I do think it's easy to forget just what it's like to be a newcomer to MythTV, or linux generally, and perhaps harder still to put yourself in the shoes of someone who has never been technically minded
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[19:03:13] dblain: stuartm: should a missing/wrong import path fail or just log the problem and ignore the import line?
[19:06:29] stuartm: log and ignore
[19:17:24] dblain: Just pushed server side import suport. (Only tested on windows... I'll pull down and test on my linux box now)
[19:18:33] dblain: stuartm: let me know if you have any issues with it. (I'm sure it could use some refinement once we start using it)
[19:19:16] dblain: well, that commit comment doesn't look anything like I formatted when I wrote it :(
[19:20:46] stuartm: dblain: that was quick, thanks
[19:21:37] dblain: Would of been faster, but I started to write it where any imported script would be available globally. Then I realized how bad of an idea that was :)
[19:22:34] dblain: One existing flaw is if a imported script is changed, but the file that is doing the import isn't, the server doesn't know it should reprocess the file.
[19:22:57] dblain: forgot to add that to my commit msg
[19:26:42] stuartm: I'll keep that in mind
[19:27:34] dblain: If it becomes an issue, we may need to add a developer flag to not cache the compiled script
[19:29:15] stuartm: I've got one-click recording scheduling working well, complete with feedback in the UI, but it's reliant on a 2.5 second JS timer which causes a check of the program's recording status – if the reschedule takes longer than that it would appear as if it wasn't going to record
[19:29:47] stuartm: so it's OK for a temporary solution, just not a long-term one
[19:30:17] stuartm: couldn't figure out a simple way to block until the reschedule occurred
[19:30:40] dblain: okay, okay... I'll get back to reading RFC6455 ( The WebSocket Protocol) :)
[19:31:08] stuartm: :P
[19:31:18] dblain: stuartm: there wasn't a blocking call into the scheduler that you could use?
[19:32:02] ** dblain has never looked at that code so you can ignore my question **
[19:33:11] stuartm: dblain: not that I could find, the whole scheduler is designed to be non-blocking, I could have created something but it probably wouldn't be worth the effort
[19:33:48] dblain: agreed. Your workaround isn't horrible. Should work okay for now
[19:38:08] skd5aner: nothing really beats the channel editor in mythweb. The experience within the UI is dreadfully more painful... especially for folks in the US who have to constantly rescan when providers change QAM channels
[19:42:18] stuartm: the problem is that people keep telling us that the scanning process is broken/painful/other but they don't stop to elaborate on the problems or file tickets
[19:46:10] skd5aner: stuartm: part of that is because the culture for so many years was the tickets the simply pointed out deficincies weren't only just not welcome, but were actually forbidden and mocked unless a a patch was also attached (in which case, the patch might sit and bitrot) :(
[19:46:16] stuartm: changing lineups and moving channels aren't unique to US cable, it's actually the norm for many DVB countries, especially Satellite which has a high churn rate of channels
[19:47:05] skd5aner: maybe that's changed – but I know I'm still very hesistant to submit tickets against UX related items because historically users were told that it was "by design" and "not a bug" – even if the development community would conceed that it might not be very good
[19:48:12] stuartm: skd5aner: well there is a difference between an outright feature request and something that just doesn't work as it should do e.g. losing channel preferences when rescanning is a bug whereas automatically associating channels with an xmltvid is an entirely new feature
[19:48:51] skd5aner: I appreciate that, on several occasions – I've been able to mention some of those in this forum, but I try to be very concious about what I put in trac from past experience of monitoring what was and wasn't permitted there for so many years :)
[19:48:59] stuartm: and if in doubt, we welcome people asking on the -dev mailing list first
[19:50:00] stuartm: we still prefer new features not to be requested in trac simply because it would make trac completely unusable and drown us in more emails than we could hope to read
[19:50:54] skd5aner: stuartm: btw, is there a minimum goals list of a what a mythweb replacement should have? For example, the ability to be secured, ability to access from outside a local network (proxiable), etc??
[19:51:01] stuartm: it's a shame we never managed to get a proper feature request system setup, it was going to happen at one point but those who were going to do the work became too busy
[19:51:12] ** skd5aner was one of those **
[19:52:01] skd5aner: I tried to get it set up, but... the primary solution I wanted to try and get deployed required postgresql and drupal... and xris wasn't so keen at the time of deploying those on the server as well
[19:52:31] skd5aner: I kind of was leading the charge, but was a the mercy of what could be (or would be) supported on the server... this was pre-alcor
[19:53:03] stuartm: there are more appropriate bits of software, xris was looking at one that was designed precisely for the proposal and discussion of ideas
[19:53:16] stuartm: I don't remember the name of it ...
[19:53:19] skd5aner: I'd love to run with it again... but, would still prefer if it leveraged ideatorrent
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[19:55:02] stuartm: skd5aner: the bare minimum for now is the ability to create and manage schedules, view the list of upcoming and current recordings, maybe if I get time it will include video, music and image gallery components
[19:55:51] stuartm: securing and proxying are 'nice to have' but whether they'll be in there for 0.28 I can't say, depends whether any other devs besides dblain and myself get involved
[19:57:25] stuartm: a surprising number of people use mythweb just as a way of managing things from a desktop/laptop/tablet in their own homes, so the lack of security won't render it useless
[19:59:41] stuartm: I don't yet know what it would take to secure it properly – the services API is exposed on the same port, which makes it currently more complicated to secure
[20:01:06] skd5aner: stuartm: theres a few new competitors in the social ideation space – perhaps I'll research some of the new players
[20:01:44] stuartm: longer term I'd like to see it secured and using https
[20:03:07] dblain: stuartm: https should be doable. We may also want to have the web pages be on a different port than the services
[20:03:47] stuartm: I was about to suggest that (moving the web pages to another port)
[20:04:03] stuartm: that would simplify things
[20:05:12] stuartm: although I was also thinking that third parties might want the ability to use a secured version of services; the android apps for example
[20:06:40] dblain: Once the https handshaking code is added, any/all instances can use it.
[20:06:41] stuartm: a simple token based session system would work fine over https
[20:08:45] dblain: Although security would be nice, I would rather see functionality added to get everyone excited about it, then add the security layer. (current design should be able to add security with little application/client impact(
[20:09:12] stuartm: dblain: same
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[20:11:46] dblain: stuartm: BTW – thanks for working on the web pages. Although I could do it, I don't like it as much as doing the lower lever protocol work. (I always spend too much time tweaking how each page looks and run out of time making it actually doing something!)
[20:15:36] stuartm: heh, that describes exactly what I end up doing – I had the page displaying the guide data in a grid within 20 minutes of working on it, but the hours of work I've otherwise spent on it have been related to changing, tweaking and re-tweaking the layout, styling and javascript related effects
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[20:16:50] jheizer: And that is why I was too lazy still to add a guide to MobileMyth.
[20:16:52] dblain: Yep, been there!
[20:17:38] stuartm: that first iteration used a lot fewer lines of code too, the services API basically does 90% of the work
[20:17:44] jheizer: I'd like to be able to pitch in and help on this since I also have the point of view of a consumer on the services. Just my free time seems to still be very small random windows.
[20:20:03] stuartm: jheizer: discovered and fixed some issues in the services code, the one today should get backported, but I've already forgotten what some of the others were and whether they would affect users of the http api
[20:20:53] stuartm: jheizer: are you using GetRecordSchedule?
[20:21:25] jheizer: I did finally realize last night that I have a stupid typo that was stopping my "New Gallery" plugin from working with .27 users as long as they had the "Photographs" storage group defined
[20:21:55] jheizer: so who ever I was talking to about that a while a go, I'll have support for remove image viewing soon on any system with that storage group defined.
[20:22:09] skd5aner: stuartm: what would you think about an externally hosted crowd sourcing ideation solution rather than hosting something on mythtv.org?
[20:22:23] jheizer: stuartm, I have stayed away from the scheduling type stuff for now and just link to mythweb for them
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[20:22:37] stuartm: skd5aner: doesn't matter to me where it's hosted
[20:22:41] skd5aner: :)
[20:23:02] jheizer: Trying to cover all the consumer portions before modifying recordings since things were changing with the recording templates and all
[20:24:27] jheizer: My vision in the end is a complete platform agnostic FE/FE controller. Ex: I have samples or Myth->Chromecast
[20:25:50] dblain: jheizer: I assume you are using the json serializer for the service calls... if I added support to pass parameters as a form post with complex datatypes as parameters i.e. structures, whould your development environment be able to use them?
[20:27:57] jheizer: For the most part I am just .Net SOAP connected references. I do make some jquery direct calls for a couple of items like refreshing FE status. And load images via direct calls.
[20:28:37] jheizer: but, yeah, I have no problem POSTing json or whatever if need be.
[20:29:10] dblain: jheizer: oh, I just assumed it was for android... .so do you use the WSDL to generate the proxies?
[20:29:17] jheizer: yeah
[20:29:25] dblain: any issues?
[20:29:32] jheizer: I'm the no one uses FE as a website guy
[20:29:33] jheizer: lol
[20:29:48] jheizer: hmm, just the date formats that I believe we talked about months and months ago
[20:30:11] jheizer: I never did retry it after we talked though. I just have to edit the porxies to treat the dates as strings.
[20:30:12] dblain: Unfortunately I don't remember that
[20:30:23] jheizer: May have been someone else. Bad memory.
[20:30:49] dblain: It very well could of been me... getting harder to remember :(
[20:31:55] jheizer: Hmm, I see a comment in videos
[20:31:56] dblain: So when I add complex type support, the wsdl should just work for you (I tend to test using c# myself)
[20:32:06] jheizer: GetVideoList
[20:33:31] dblain: Must be local to your source... I don't see any comments
[20:33:34] stuartm: is anyone else using kdevelop?
[20:33:52] jheizer: I mean my MobileMyth source I marked it so I would remember
[20:34:07] jheizer: VideoMetadatInfo I had to change
[20:34:07] jheizer: <xs:element minOccurs="0" name="ReleaseDate" nillable="true" type="xs:string" />
[20:34:07] jheizer: <xs:element minOccurs="0" name="AddDate" nillable="true" type="xs:string" />
[20:34:54] jheizer: But it appears the date and dateTimes in DVR/Program were ok
[20:35:02] dblain: jheizer: Odd. I'll have to make a note to test the date serialization again.
[20:35:37] jheizer: Too long ago and was when our baby was a month old and I was trying to write the base of this as fast as I could. I should have kept better notes.
[20:35:57] jheizer: Was my wife's baby feeding tv haha
[20:36:35] jheizer: We don't really use it anymore but I have enough done I keep working on it now and then in hopes people may find it useful.
[20:38:57] dblain: I hate to admit this, but I had to stop using mythtv as my primary DVR due to premium channels. I only use it to record my shows that the rest of the family doesn't watch.
[20:40:05] jheizer: Sucks. Thankfully we have never had them so the wife doesn't miss them. Though I think she would go crazy now w/o Myth after 8+ years of it.
[20:41:28] dblain: My family just want something that works. which myth did for the most part. Now I have to maintain two systems. I don't mind too much since I can bring down mythtv anytime I want without getting yelled at.
[20:42:04] jheizer: OK, next recording starts in 20 minutes. Go! Go! Go!
[20:42:44] dblain: Comcast also removed all unencrypted channels and I see them slowly making them all copy once which will break mythtv's cable card support... can't win.
[20:44:19] jheizer: Damn. I have been HDPVR/Dish for a while and always tempted to go back to comcast/cable card, but for that reason it scared me. Thankfully with 4 OTA tuners I can pretty much cover our needs with a single HDPVR since cable stuff replays so often.
[20:46:07] dblain: We tend to have 6 shows recording at once on some nights. although some do repeat.
[20:47:11] dblain: stuartm: were you going to commit the change to AddRecordSchedule to take a pointer to a RecordingRule?
[20:48:25] dblain: Anyone know if a Qt slot can be overloaded?
[20:48:36] jheizer: I need google to get off their butts and allow chromecast things to go public so I have some motivation to finish that little project.
[20:49:24] stuartm: dblain: already did – http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/commit/?id . . . bebd34796eeb
[20:50:22] dblain: ah, you only changed the script class... that makes sense.
[20:50:28] stuartm: yep
[20:51:48] dblain: I'm still going to look into what it would take to support that in the base class. My goal is that the Service Classes will be so powerful/complete they will be used throughout mythbackend/mythfrontend even as just a standard c++ library (no http).
[20:52:00] dblain: May never happen, but you never know.
[20:52:06] stuartm: in my case I'm calling GetRecordSchedule() which returns the object pointer, I make my changes then call AddRecordSchedule(pointer)
[20:52:25] dblain: The use case make perfect sense.
[21:06:09] stuartm: anyone know the trick to getting margin to work on children of an absolute positioned div? I'm sure I've solved this one in the past but I can't remember how
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[21:18:46] jheizer: stuartm, It should work. You should be able to margin a child div or padding the absolute div
[21:19:13] stuartm: jheizer: heh, I just this second noticed I was missing a semi-colon ...
[21:19:29] stuartm: I was going mad trying to figure out why it wasn't working
[21:19:40] jheizer: ahh, that'll make css happy.
[21:20:30] jheizer: Damn semi-colons... From a VB.Net guy by day. lol
[21:22:08] stuartm: the browser debugger didn't report anything wrong, neither did a css validator, with tools like those ...
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[22:00:27] dekarl1: skd5aner: can't you just leave MythWeb TNG unsecured and use your home routers VPN feature to connect you mobile device? (thinking that this is the majority use case) Getting security right isn't so easy...
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[22:11:59] stuartm: it's not so hard either, especially if you force the use of https which rules out session hijack and credential theft attacks on unsecured or honeypot wifi networks
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[22:15:09] stuartm: what's harder to avoid are denial of service (intended or unintended) issues, but that's where a good firewall comes in
[22:16:03] dekarl: aye, but just using what your router has for free leaves more time to look into stuff like new user experience when trying to set up the HLS recorder with XMLTV guide data...
[22:16:29] dekarl: the handholding today reminded me just how bad it is
[22:17:20] stuartm: dekarl: setting up vpn on some mobile devices is tricky
[22:18:21] stuartm: anyway, as stated earlier, adding security for remote use is down my list of priorities for this release – I've got far too much on my list to commit to it
[22:19:35] stuartm: I'm hoping I won't have to though, as dblain said earlier, if we get people excited by the new stuff we'll hopefully attract patches and attention from other devs :)
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[22:49:52] skd5aner: dekarl: TNG, that's kinda catchy... I think VPN is a bit of a stretch for the "average" user. I do have a VPN, but the fact is most consumer routers still don't offer VPN capabilities without flashing the firmware...
[22:50:47] skd5aner: dekarl: my questions is basically just a leading one, becuase the fact is – mythweb can be most useful when you need to access mythtv while your away to set up a recording even though you're not home... however, if you leave it "open" today without securing it, you're asking for serious issues
[22:51:43] skd5aner: dekarl: in the past, even google just crawling mythweb would cause mass havoc because it would randomly post data and screw up recording rules... so you have to use something like htaccess at least to make sure not just anyone (including search engines) can get to it
[22:51:50] dekarl: skd5aner: i hear ye. but mythweb can be easily "secured" with apache its own means
[22:52:46] skd5aner: dekarl: exactly.... so, if we abstract the http server from apache, and embed it directly in to the backend, then I would assume a comparable security model would need to be in place via mythtv (or proxied via apache at the least), right?
[22:52:50] dekarl: but I'd rather think about enabling playback with jwplayer + vpn than adding proper security
[22:53:09] dekarl: aye, just proxying works well
[22:53:58] skd5aner: dekarl: the question then goes back to "simplicity for non-technical users" – I can easily set up an apache proxy, but could someone do it out of the box that isn't that familiar with linux or apache?
[22:54:54] dekarl: there are plenty of walkthroughs for that part, but not so many for the mythtv specifics
[22:55:15] skd5aner: so, would a built in web server, that replaces mythweb/apache as we know it today, offer that same type of functionality built in – or rely on additional configuation with third-party web servers like apache :)
[22:55:25] dekarl: yes :)
[22:55:41] skd5aner: stuartm: ^ – that was the nature of my question earlier... just some food for thought – nothing more :)
[22:55:59] skd5aner: dekarl: "yes" is a great answer – hehe
[22:57:44] skd5aner: dekarl: and, as stuartm pointed out, setting up VPN on android isn't extremely fun if you are trying to do anything besides TUN... TAP requires rooting the device. I don't know about iOS
[22:59:03] skd5aner: Not to mention, that several corporate systems are locked down besides going through a web proxy – that's the only way I could access mythweb (or equivalent) if I was at work
[22:59:27] skd5aner: although, personal owned smart phones kind of negate some of those restrictions anymore :)
[23:00:05] stuartm: as I said earlier, it will ultimately be secured in it's own right, but that's not my first priority
[23:00:27] skd5aner: stuartm: yup... no sense in securing something that doesn't exist :)
[23:01:03] skd5aner: pretty impressive how much you've done as a prototype already – cool to see how effective the API framework is in helping you accomplish it :)
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