MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

Current users (74):

aloril_, Anssi, Beirdo, caelor, Captain_Murdoch, Chutt, clever, coling, Cougar, danielk22, dblain, dekarl1, eharris, ElmerFudd, fetzerch, foobum, ghoti, Gibby, gregL, GreyFoxx, guest42143, jams, jarle, jarryd, jheizer, joe____, johanbr, joki, jpharvey, jst, jwhite_, jya, kc, kurre2, kwmonroe, laga_, MavT, Merlin83b, moparisthebest, MythBuild, MythLogBot, nephyrin, Nothing4You, nvzn_, nyloc, peper03, poptix, purserj, rhpot1991, robink, Seeker`, seld, Sharky112065, sjennings, skd5aner, sl1ce, SmallR2002, sphery, sraue, stuarta, stuartm, superm1, taylorr, tgm4883, Tobbe5178, toeb, tonsofpcs, tris, wagnerrp, wahrhaft, wolfgang3, XDS2010, xris, _charly_
Wednesday, October 23rd, 2013, 00:02 UTC
[00:02:05] nvzn (nvzn!~nvzn@unaffiliated/nvzn) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[00:26:43] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[00:50:35] dblain: ServiceAPI: GetChannelIcon usually returns the actual image file. I found that if the file doesn't exist it's failing an assert when trying to format the reponse. Question is, what should it return when there is no resource? Just a 404? Should we have a blank/transparent icon we always return when not found?
[00:52:52] rsiebert (rsiebert!~quassel@g225058065.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #mythtv
[00:56:05] rsiebert_ (rsiebert_!~quassel@g225061039.adsl.alicedsl.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[01:24:51] nvzn_ (nvzn_!~nvzn@unaffiliated/nvzn) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[01:25:48] nvzn (nvzn!~nvzn@unaffiliated/nvzn) has joined #mythtv
[01:30:28] dblain: stuartm: just curious if you have plans to use progressive loading on the program guild page?
[01:36:14] rsiebert (rsiebert!~quassel@g225058065.adsl.alicedsl.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[01:59:40] skd5aner: dblain, stuartm: http://tinypic.com/ works well
[02:01:58] _charly_ (_charly_!kroseneg@sunrise.schmidham.net) has joined #mythtv
[02:08:31] nyloc (nyloc!~quassel@p3EE2CB5F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #mythtv
[02:09:42] skd5aner: stuartm: fyi, there is a nice 3rd party add-on for mythweb I used in 0.26 (haven't added it in to 0.27 yet) that goes out and looks at what episodes of a series you've recorded, haven't recorded, and are set to record, etc... It's call mythepisode
[02:09:46] skd5aner: stuartm: https://code.google.com/p/mythepisode/
[02:10:37] skd5aner: stuartm: your conversation earlier sounded like you desired a similiar experience – knowing how many seasons/episodes of a series have aired, which ones you've watch (and haven't), ordering, etc...
[02:10:59] skd5aner: stuartm: it would be nice to see that in a more integrated fashion – I like what mythepisode is trying to accomplish
[02:12:50] _nyloc_ (_nyloc_!~quassel@p3EE2D502.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[02:33:14] peper03 (peper03!~peper03@mythtv/developer/peper03) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[02:33:56] peper03 (peper03!~peper03@mythtv/developer/peper03) has joined #mythtv
[02:38:35] nvzn_ (nvzn_!~nvzn@unaffiliated/nvzn) has joined #mythtv
[02:41:37] nvzn (nvzn!~nvzn@unaffiliated/nvzn) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[03:16:25] stuartm: dblain: yeah I was thinking about it
[03:18:10] stuartm: dblain: 404 for the icon, that way api users can substitute their own image or similar if we don't have one
[03:41:41] fetzerch (fetzerch!~quassel@unaffiliated/fetzerch) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[03:43:06] fetzerch (fetzerch!~quassel@unaffiliated/fetzerch) has joined #mythtv
[04:19:51] sl1ce (sl1ce!~johnathan@pool-100-0-73-123.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[04:45:37] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has joined #mythtv
[05:47:58] sl1ce (sl1ce!~johnathan@pool-100-0-124-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv
[05:56:22] SteveGoodey (SteveGoodey!~steve@host86-134-193-50.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) has joined #mythtv
[06:02:50] FabriceMG (FabriceMG!~Thunderbi@LCaen-156-54-30-212.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #mythtv
[06:03:01] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[06:09:17] SteveGoodey (SteveGoodey!~steve@host86-134-193-50.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[06:19:58] dekarl: dblain (and stuartm) I have lazy loading of preview pictures for mythweb on "the list", but its nowhere near the top. After thinking a bit about it, we now store full size screen shots so we could just pregenerate them once we hit the preview snapshot point in the recording. Would make mythtweb/recording selection a bit snappier when you come back with 20 new recordings.
[07:09:29] jya (jya!~jyavenard@mythtv/developer/jya) has quit (Quit: jya)
[07:20:33] stuartm: dekarl: used to be that browsers always loaded images asynchronously, display the page (without images) as fast as possible – has that changed for some browsers?
[07:39:26] NightMonkey (NightMonkey!~NightrMon@pdpc/supporter/professional/nightmonkey) has quit (Quit: Body blow! Body blow!)
[08:00:09] warped_ (warped_!~piotro@89-79-251-78.dynamic.chello.pl) has joined #mythtv
[09:06:00] warped_ (warped_!~piotro@89-79-251-78.dynamic.chello.pl) has quit (Quit: warped_)
[09:10:46] dekarl-work (dekarl-work!51c8c614@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.200.198.20) has joined #mythtv
[09:14:01] dekarl-work: stuartm, I don't think anything has changed. But loading 1000 preview images / Channel Icons etc. slows down the initial page rendering. Maybe its just a bad implementation in firefox. maybe requesting 4 (i think the default is still to load 4 resources at once) new preview images slows down other requests to the backend. I've not investigated yet.
[10:03:12] dekarl-work (dekarl-work!51c8c614@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.200.198.20) has quit ()
[11:15:27] stuartm: stuarta: we need a fixupp to match all three parts of "S2 Ep3/12" in the description for CBS Action
[11:16:29] stuartm: CBS Drama seems to use a nearly identical format "S2, Ep2/7"
[11:17:51] stuartm: the current m_ukSeries fixup erroneously puts episode and episode total into the partnumber/parttotal fields
[11:18:36] stuartm: hmm, might just have to modify m_ukSeries to include the season
[11:21:48] stuartm: and create a second regexp for the Part x of y
[11:26:38] stuarta: shouldn't be too hard
[11:27:42] stuartm: yeah that's what I thought, but the 'mild flu symptoms' induced by the flu vaccine I was given this morning are affecting my ability to grok the existing regexps
[11:29:32] stuartm: that's my excuse anyway, all that double escaping doesn't really help :)
[11:33:53] stuartm: it actually makes some sense now I've stared at it long enough
[11:36:12] stuartm: m_ukSeries("\\s*\\(?\\s*(?:Season|Series|S)?\\s*(\\d{1,2})\\s*(?:Episode|Ep )?\\s*(\\d{1,2})\\s*(?:of|/)\\s*(\\d{1,2})\\s*\\)?\\s*(?:\\.|:)?", Qt::CaseInsensitive)
[11:38:13] stuartm: do we want to allow for 3/4 digit episode numbers? I've never seen one for EIT, but they are very common for RT data, usually where a very long running programme has no distinct series boundaries e.g. Emmerdale, Eastenders etc
[11:39:51] stuartm: m_ukPart("\\s*\\(?\\s*(?:Part|Pt)\\s*(\\d{1,2})\\s*(?:of|/)\\s*(\\d{1,2})\\ s*\\)?\\s*(?:\\.|:)?", Qt::CaseInsensitive)
[11:42:24] stuartm: m_ukSeries("\\s*\\(?\\s*(?:Season|Series|S)?\\s*(\\d{1,2})(?:,|:)?\\s*(?:Ep isode|Ep)?\\s*(\\d{1,2})\\s*(?:of|/)\\s*(\\d{1,2})\\s*\\)?\\s*(?:\\.|:)?", Qt::CaseInsensitive)
[11:42:27] stuartm: to include the ,
[11:49:15] stuarta: we could probably manage something
[12:07:04] stuartm: http://pastebin.com/RGrrpzy3
[12:07:39] stuartm: untested atm, thorough testing might be tricky as I use xmltv for most channels
[12:29:00] stuarta: regexps make my head hurt sometimes...
[12:29:36] amessina (amessina!~amessina@2001:470:c1dc:7779:d6be:d9ff:fe8d:7c1e) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[12:32:01] stuartm: running with the patch now, we'll see what happens
[12:33:14] stuartm: worst case it mangles some program titles, but I don't expect that
[12:36:08] danielk22: stuartm: Do we tell the browser the size of the images in the HTML? If we don't they will typically start reading all the images before they render (so they can do the layout just once). Browsers didn't used to do that in the 1990's but they have in the last decade at least.
[12:37:52] stuartm: danielk22: good point, you're right but for mythweb I don't know the answer
[12:43:27] stuartm: I don't know how specifying just one of height or width affects that behaviour, for preview images we don't know the aspect ratio in advance and therefore cannot set both dimensions without stretching the image
[12:45:37] stuartm: could possibly work around it entirely by defining a fixed size container, that way the browser knows that no matter what the image dimensions it wouldn't affect the layout
[12:45:39] danielk22: stuartm: take this with a grain of salt, since I haven't done serious frontend dev in almost 20 years, but if we have box around the images with a fixed size the browser should have a chance to do the layout.
[12:45:42] danielk22: heh
[12:45:55] stuartm: I win
[12:48:30] stuartm: dekarl: ^^ worth a try before implementing lazy loading for mythweb
[12:58:20] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@adsl-68-127-209-56.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #mythtv
[12:58:20] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has joined #mythtv
[12:58:20] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@adsl-68-127-209-56.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has quit (Changing host)
[12:59:29] sphery: The HTML on Recorded Programs shows width and height for the images (and we do use a fixed container size). And, FWIW, the page actually (only?) becomes useful/fast if you enable "Page recorded programs" in settings under TV|My Session, in the Recorded Programs section.
[13:02:29] FabriceMG (FabriceMG!~Thunderbi@LCaen-156-54-30-212.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:02:42] stuartm: stuarta: heh, noticed that the subtitle regexp is turning 'Hawaii Five-O' into Hawaii Five: O
[13:02:50] sphery: actually, even turning off paging, the page loads quickly for me (about 3s) and then the images appear as the browser downloads them (and that's with 2589 programs)...
[13:03:42] stuartm: recordings
[13:04:00] FabriceMG (FabriceMG!~Thunderbi@217.112.59.207) has joined #mythtv
[13:05:32] Jordack (Jordack!~Jordack@h69-131-44-221.plmomi.dedicated.static.tds.net) has joined #mythtv
[13:06:53] sphery: Only change I've made that has any impact on preview images is changing the default to 16:9 at http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythweb/tree/modu . . . ram.php#n766 , but that shouldn't affect the page loading
[13:07:42] sphery: it's possible that the getAspect() function (and a slow MySQL server) are why it's slow for others?
[13:08:53] stichnot: stuartm: I know this isn't perl, but: http://xkcd.com/1171/
[13:10:13] stuartm: stuarta: so the regexp is working to popuplate the season/episode/totalepisodes for CBS*, it will take a bit longer to determine if it's broken the Part matching but I might commit it now anyway, since the part stuff is purely informational
[13:22:32] stuartm: stichnot: heh
[13:38:54] stichnot: stuartm, sphery, gigem: On the topic of removing the WatchTVGuide setting. Currently, if that is set, live TV will start on the last tuned channel (cardinput.startchan) of the best available tuner (based on cardinput.livetvorder), and so the guide will start with that channel highlighted. But if you bring up the guide from outside of Live TV, it uses the DefaultTVChannel setting for the...
[13:38:55] stichnot: ...initial channel to highlight.
[13:39:57] stichnot: I'm thinking to change the behavior so that starting the EPG from outside Live TV highlights the channel that would have been selected if Live TV were started now.
[13:41:45] stichnot: Perhaps with a new "Home"-style keybinding that quickly brings you to either the first channel in the EPG list, or the DefaultTVChannel
[13:42:17] stichnot: though I'm inclined to just remove the DefaultTVChannel setting
[13:42:22] stuartm: hmm, not sure I like that, I prefer my guide to always start at the beginning, channel 1, like a STB does – especially since the all the most recorded (watchable) channels are listed first for UK sources
[13:42:35] stuarta: stuartm: fbm
[13:43:06] stuartm: changing that behaviour would also confuse my parents :)
[13:43:27] stichnot: ok, as a mostly non live TV & EPG user, I need this input :)
[13:45:53] stichnot: What if leaving DefaultTVChannel blank meant use the last tuned LiveTV channel?
[13:46:14] stuartm: having a special value would be fine by me
[13:46:25] stuartm: the start chan behaviour is actually slightly broken, or at least it doesn't work as it really should, it highlights the start chan but with centre scrolling behaviour in the guide that means half the displayed channels are those from the end of the channel list
[13:47:20] stuartm: what you want is for the 'start chan' to be the first displayed channel
[13:47:55] stichnot: true. also, if the channel doesn't exist (it defaults to "3"), it ignores it instead of finding where it should be in the sorted channel order
[13:49:55] stichnot: so for center scrolling, startchan would be the top channel listed but not the channel highlighted?
[13:57:14] stuartm: that would match my expectation, but the current help text is ambiguous and maybe that's not how others expect it to work
[13:57:59] stuartm: the fact that the default channel was 3 does seem to suggest that my interpretation was the intended one (standard theme shows 5 channels in the guide)
[14:01:33] stichnot: depends on where the code was written... in the U.S. analog channels always started from 2
[14:01:48] dblain: maybe I've misunderstood the discussion, but all the commercial DVR's I've used highlight the currently tuned channel when the guide is brought up from live tv.
[14:36:22] sphery: jpabq: If I'm reading this right, it seems that http://code.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/a3cdcf5738b2 from #11761 removed the Preset tuner to channel from all encoders--including PVR-x50, which needs it for use with DTAs. See http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/556040#556040
[14:36:22] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11761 **
[14:40:09] sphery: stichnot: FWIW (though I admit it's much more work), I'd rather see DefaultTVChannel setting removed and then channel groups updated to add extra information, such as starting channel (which could have extra values for "last tuned" or "remember last position in guide")
[14:41:59] sphery: definitely not something that needs doing right away, so I won't blame you if you go with the easier approach, but the DefaultTVChannel setting is basically broken with the guide displaying any channel group other than all channels, for example, if "Remember last channel group" (ChannelGroupRememberLast) is set
[14:42:38] sphery: or if "Default channel group" (ChannelGroupDefault) is anything other than "All Channels"
[14:49:30] sphery: wagnerrp: Thanks for the input on #11917 . I couldn't figure out what it was trying to say, but I think you've figured out what he was confusing.
[14:49:30] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11917 **
[14:56:28] brfransen (brfransen!~brfransen@64.179.169.226) has quit ()
[14:56:50] stuartm: dblain: yeah that's the correct behaviour for livetv, we're just discussing what should happen when you open the guide from the menu instead
[14:57:55] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:59:03] dblain: stuartm: I read the scrollback too quickly... I should learn to stay out of discussions unless I know all the details! Sorry for the noise.
[15:00:11] stuartm: dblain: don't worry, I do it all the time
[15:02:33] gigem: stichnot: I'd probably get used to the guide starting on the last used (by the guide or live TV), but it would take a while. That would line up with some other settings I've considered replacing by simply remembering the last state they were in. Of the other options, I think I'd prefer a special value for DefaultTVChannel to start on the "last used" channel.
[15:45:27] FabriceMG (FabriceMG!~Thunderbi@217.112.59.207) has quit (Quit: FabriceMG)
[15:45:54] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@216.239.45.130) has joined #mythtv
[15:46:00] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@216.239.45.130) has quit (Changing host)
[15:46:00] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has joined #mythtv
[15:46:55] stichnot: sphery: Good point. Channel Groups is a feature that I don't use but I wanted to figure out its interaction with starting Guide channels.
[15:47:36] SteveGoodey (SteveGoodey!~steve@host86-134-193-50.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) has joined #mythtv
[15:50:48] stichnot: gigem: OK. I'll plan to use some approach where a special value of Starting Channel means use something close to "last Live TV tuned channel", or almost equivalently, "channel I would see if I just started Live TV right now".
[15:51:51] stichnot: and in the case of Channel Groups, snap to the nearest channel visible in the current group
[15:55:09] skd5aner: stichnot, stuartm: unfortunately, in the US, most cable providers put the SD channels on 2–99, and the most "watchable/recordable" channels are likely randomly in the hundreds or thousands. For Satellite, they usually broadcast the HD versions on the old analog channel numbers, and for OTA it doesn't really matter since there are only a handful of channels anyway
[15:55:51] skd5aner: stichnot: but for me, my HD local broadcast networks start on channel 1003... needless to say, when the guide starts on channel 2, I have a LONG way to page down/up to get to the channels that matter most to me – so i think it's just a matter of perspective
[15:56:21] skd5aner: is there a way to set "DefaultTVChannel"? Is that a user configurable setting somewhere?
[16:00:35] stichnot: skd5aner: Setup > Video > Program Guide
[16:01:10] stichnot: but don't get too attached to that location, based on recent discussion :)
[16:02:41] skd5aner: stichnot: well, if you do change it, i'm sure you wont backport to 0.27
[16:02:43] skd5aner: :)
[16:02:50] dekarl1 (dekarl1!~dekarl@p4FE85182.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #mythtv
[16:03:12] stichnot: true...
[16:04:24] stichnot: skd5aner: since you're here, have you noticed whether #10967 has been fixed?
[16:04:24] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10967 **
[16:05:08] dekarl (dekarl!~dekarl@p4FE852EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:05:47] skd5aner: but, not that my vote counts....but I too like the experience of the last tuned channel being selected in Live TV – but not sure how much that matters when trying to use the non-liveTV EPG...
[16:06:28] skd5aner: stichnot: sorry, haven't had a chance to test yet :( been busy... typing with one hand as I speak while feeding my son a bottle... lol
[16:07:12] skd5aner: I will test today
[16:10:16] skd5aner: stichnot: I use the EPG in live tv almost daily, and the current behavior there works very well and mimics commercial STB usage....
[16:11:02] jpabq: sphery: I will take a look
[16:12:10] stichnot: skd5aner: here's a suggestion (me almost a decade ago): https://plus.google.com/u/0/110404408163012076101/posts/p/pub
[16:12:27] skd5aner: stichnot: on the (infrequent) occassion where I use the non-live TV epg to schedule a recording, it current starts on channel 2 for me.... I don't know how useful it would really be for it to go to the last tuned live tv channel??? what benefit to ux would that offer?
[16:13:00] skd5aner: (not questioning it because I disagree, just asking)
[16:14:10] stichnot: skd5aner: this is in the context of removing the "Start Live TV in Guide" setting, which has its tendrils in all sorts of inappropriate places in the code, and how to offer a similar Guide experience to those who like it
[16:14:57] stichnot: as you may have seen, I recently made it possible to launch Live TV from the standalone EPG on the selected channel, something I've wanted for years
[16:15:20] skd5aner: hmmm, that G+ link doesnt load correctly for me...
[16:17:40] stichnot: hmm
[16:18:54] skd5aner: Actually, it's interesting... it flashes up your "header" on your G+ profile, then that disapears after a second, then just the G+ header shows
[16:19:21] skd5aner: I can see for a split second that you work for Google, haha :)
[16:19:53] stichnot: don't get me started... :)
[16:19:56] stichnot: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4m_7a4KCDB . . . DSC01313.JPG
[16:20:14] skd5aner: ah, i see the profile pic now... hehe... NICE
[16:20:19] stichnot: smaller version, but conveys the same idea...
[16:21:02] skd5aner: Yes, I'm doign a very similiar method now – but I had to hold the bottle a few mins ago :)
[16:22:33] skd5aner: no one offers to hold my bottle anymore.... grumble grumble
[16:22:59] stuartm: skd5aner: that's unfortunate, here broadcasters pay for their slots with the more popular channels/broadcasters getting slots between 1–40, there is also grouping, so for example on Freeview news channels are in the 80–90 bracket, childrens channels in 70–80, radio channels are hidden well into the 100s and adult channels right at the back end of the guide 170+
[16:23:10] stichnot: for those desperate moments, you may be able to stabilize the bottle with your chin
[16:24:41] stuartm: you can pretty much guarentee you'll never want to record anything on a channel beyond 100 for Freeview, and 95% of the time it will be somewhere between 1 & 40, 80% between 1 & 20
[16:24:57] stuartm: same applies to Freesat
[16:25:13] stuartm: and to some degree for cable too
[16:26:44] stuartm: of course STBs for all platforms use a menu structure that allows you to jump direct to the section of the guide dealing with a particularly genre
[16:27:09] stuartm: so you don't need to plough through hundreds of channels to reach sport
[16:33:45] clever: my cable co isnt so sane, all the HD channels start over 200
[16:34:01] clever: and there are HD and SD versions of the same channel
[16:34:54] skd5aner: stuartm: Only recently have some cable providers decided to group things in logical segments, but every single market is completely different. Even the same provider within the same city might have a different lineup for a different neighborhood a few miles down the road...
[16:35:44] stuartm: organised chaos
[16:35:54] skd5aner: 2–99 is a cluster – it's all the locals and basic cable in SD analog... no specific ordering. 100–999 is SD Digital... and if there's an HD equivalent, you had a "1" to the front...
[16:36:43] clever: it seems simpler to just replace the SD channel with an HD one if your paying
[16:37:04] skd5aner: so, for example... I have 3 versions of CNN... Channel 38 (SD Analog), Channel 301 (SD Digital) and Channel 1301 (HD Digital)
[16:37:28] clever: mine is over ethernet, so no analog anywhere
[16:38:57] skd5aner: So, they finally started ot group them so that locals are 1000, Family and basic cable is 1100s, 1200 is extended cable, 1300s is news, 1400 is sports, 1500 is adult, 1600 is movies, etc... and the SD equivalent drops the leading 1, and there are several networks that don't have an HD equivalent
[16:39:26] clever: no such sanity in sight here
[16:39:48] clever: 5 is CTV, 402 is CTVHD
[16:40:08] clever: and they are airing different shows
[16:40:20] stuartm: clever: that's the one thing my cable provider gets wrong, they don't automatically replace the SD version of the channel with the HD simulcast, even though I'm using an HD-only STB (meaning that it only offers HDMI output)
[16:40:42] clever: another problem i have
[16:40:49] stuartm: it's irritating that to watch the HD version of BBC Two I can't just tune to channel 2
[16:40:52] clever: the hardware is software limited to 2 hd streams at once
[16:41:01] clever: if the DVR is recording 2 HD streams, you cant watch HD live
[16:41:09] clever: so you have to figure out what the SD channel is, and open that manualy
[16:41:25] clever: that limit covers the entire house
[16:42:30] skd5aner: stuartm: the only people in the US that replace the SD with the HD equivalents and simulcast them on the same channel are the satellite providers (DirecTV and Dish Network)
[16:51:40] toeb (toeb!~toeb@HSI-KBW-078-042-207-030.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #mythtv
[16:53:49] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[16:53:54] Steve-Goodey (Steve-Goodey!~steve@host86-134-193-50.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) has joined #mythtv
[16:56:08] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has joined #mythtv
[17:19:47] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[17:19:48] seld (seld!~seld@h7n7-rny-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[17:20:28] stuartm: wagnerrp: do the python bindings need updating if the serialised ProgramInfo has a new entry? Or has it been converted to use the services API?
[17:21:21] stuartm: everyone: and ditto for mythweb, I couldn't find where it needs updating?
[17:22:41] seld (seld!~seld@h7n7-rny-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #mythtv
[17:25:19] stuartm: wagnerrp: nm, found it
[17:26:00] stuartm: updating all these is a royal PITA, the sooner the bindings are converted to use services the better
[17:45:52] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@216.239.45.130) has joined #mythtv
[17:46:00] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@216.239.45.130) has quit (Changing host)
[17:46:00] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has joined #mythtv
[17:56:42] jpabq: sphery: The reason for that change is that people where putting a value in there for the HD-PVR, which greatly confused myth. Other than MPEG cards, are there any others that DO need that setting?
[18:02:24] sphery: jpabq: V4L (framegrabber) cards need it, too.
[18:03:00] sphery: Can't think of anything else off the top of my head. I suppose this means there's no RF-modulated input on the HD-PVR? (Just Component?)
[18:03:07] jpabq: Ich. We still support those :-p
[18:03:22] sphery: Can we just change that !IsEncoder() to check, specifically, for the HD-PVR?
[18:03:59] sphery: and, yeah, I wouldn't mind if we just stop supporting the framegrabbers :)
[18:08:34] sphery: jpabq: so, basically, change http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/mytht . . . ce.cpp#n2922 to just see if it's an HDPVR
[18:09:26] sphery: jpabq: yeah, because we'd need the preset tuner for all V4L's except HD-PVR (including V4L, MPEG, GO7007, and MJPEG)
[18:15:40] sphery: Actually, looking at IsEncoder(), I'm wondering if it's even right... Doesn't it say that QPSK, QAM, OFDM, ATSC, and DVB_S2 are all encoders? (I don't think any of them actually are.)
[18:18:41] sphery: the DVB_S2 gets grouped in because it checks rawtype != "DVB" ... Looks like something wasn't updated properly. CARD_TYPES show QPSK and DVBS are equivalent and QAM and DVBC are equivalent and OFDM and DVBT are equivalent, so it looks like we made the DVB types more specific but didn't update IsEncoder() , perhaps?
[18:18:54] sphery: danielk22: ^^^ at http://code.mythtv.org/trac/browser/mythtv/my . . . rdutil.h#L45
[18:19:38] jpabq: sphery: http://pastebin.com/Ur4gknVb
[18:20:12] jpabq: sphery: IsEncoder is all  ! this
[18:20:18] sphery: jpabq: looks good to me (and gets around any problems with IsEncoder, if they exist
[18:20:51] sphery: yeah, but there are no !'s for QPSK, QAM, OFDM, ATSC, and DVB_S2
[18:22:22] jpabq: indeed
[18:22:29] jpabq: sphery: was a ticket created for this problem?
[18:22:50] sphery: no, was just reported on the mailing list, and I wanted to verify I was reading things correctly before a ticket
[18:22:56] sphery: I can create one if you'd like
[18:23:18] jpabq: Probably not worth it. I was just going to commit that change.
[18:24:14] sphery: So, at this point, if we did change IsEncoder to remove the ones I mentioned, it would be equivalent to IsV4L() (with the exception that IsEncoder() assumes any new card types are encoders and IsV4L() assumes new cards aren't encoders/V4L cards)
[18:24:56] sphery: I guess I need to wait to see what distinction danielk22 wanted from IsEncoder() vs IsV4L().
[18:25:05] sphery: jpabq: and thanks for the quick turnaround on this
[18:26:14] jpabq: Heh. The timing was good. I just fixed a major problem at work, and a test is running, so...
[18:38:06] danielk22: IsEncoder() should return true if the output of the device is a pre-encoded stream such as MPEG-2, AVC, etc. I'm less sure on IsV4L(), I believe it means any card that accepts V4L2 commands, but it is possible that it is only for frame grabbers that accept V4L2 commands.
[18:38:09] danielk22: (i.e. I'm not sure if a HD-PVR or PVR-250 would return true for IsV4L2).
[18:46:38] jpabq: danielk22: It is a little bit of a mess right now. Too many people (like me) trying to hack it to do what they want.
[18:48:03] danielk22: jpabq: When you sort it out please add some doxygen documentation.. I remember it all being very clear in my head, but that was some time ago.
[18:48:18] jpabq: :)
[18:56:30] sphery: danielk22: don't most (all?) of those excluded from IsEncoder() return pre-encoded streams?
[18:57:11] stuartm: I think it would be good to translate those old xmltv syndicated strings (EXXSXX) into season/episode for old recordings but I don't want to further inconvenience George with another schema update
[19:00:05] danielk22: sphery: Yes, but they don't encode them. DVB/ATSC devices get encoded streams as input and pass them along. IsEncoder() is really for devices that do the encoding themselves.
[19:01:19] sphery: danielk22: so then should it be excluding QPSK, QAM, OFDM, ATSC, and DVB_S2, too?
[19:01:24] danielk22: IsEncoder() = v4l2 device that outputs pre-encoded material. i.e. not a framegrabber
[19:01:40] danielk22: sphery: yep
[19:01:59] sphery: yeah, so it looks like the list just got a bit out of date
[19:02:32] sphery: which probably explains http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/11917 (where, it seems, a user was trying to use "Preset tuner to channel" with some kind of DVB device)
[19:02:34] danielk22: yeah, it looks like it excludes DVB, but not the various subsets of DVB
[19:02:57] sphery: right, I figured we used to call them all DVB, but them added a distinction, but didn't update IsEncoder()
[19:03:03] danielk22: Hmm, actually...
[19:03:42] danielk22: IsEncoder(const QString &rawtype) accepts the raw DB value which doesn't have QPSK, QAM, OFDM, ATSC, and DVB_S2
[19:03:55] danielk22: Those are all subtypes which we don't record in the DB.
[19:03:59] sphery: oh, ok
[19:04:29] danielk22: We really should record those in the DB, but it requires an invasive schema change.
[19:04:32] sphery: I couldn't find a list of what values would come in, so I assumed the CARD_TYPE types
[19:04:59] sphery: and even atsc is dvb in the DB, right?
[19:05:06] danielk22: yep
[19:05:22] sphery: ok, so sorry for the noise, then--but thanks for helping me to better understand it
[19:05:23] stuartm: QAM is QAM256?
[19:06:04] danielk22: stuartm: QAM == Any QAM supported by the card.
[19:06:47] stuartm: so it's not a card type then ... why is it in the card type list?
[19:07:06] danielk22: It is an alias for DVBC
[19:07:18] danielk22: just like QPSK is an alias for DVBS
[19:07:28] danielk22: and OFDM is an alias for DVBT
[19:08:07] stuartm: confusing usage really, since pretty much all of those standards using QAM (the modulation)
[19:08:08] danielk22: I'm pretty sure ATSC == a card that support 8-VSB + QAM-64 + QAM-256
[19:08:35] danielk22: stuartm: Yeah, I agree.
[19:08:40] stuartm: and OFDM too for that matter
[19:08:57] danielk22: The DVBS,DVBC,DVBT constants came later, and make more sense.
[19:10:09] sphery: stuartm: so, fwiw, I don't see any S.*E.* or E.*S.* format syndicatedepisodenumbers in my listings (though I don't have the cable/satellite channels, so I can't say they won't exist for Schedules Direct users). So, it's probably safe enough to parse values and remove the value from syndicatedepisodenumber without worrying about accidentally removing some real syndicatedepisodenumber that matches the patter if you do decide to do a schema update
[19:10:12] danielk22: I believe we stole these names from the DVB driver folks (both times), and just wanted to be consistent with their naming..
[19:10:16] stuartm: QAM256 was a pseudo standard based on DVB-C used in North America
[19:11:01] stuartm: sphery: I'd probably play it safe and leave the old value untouched, it's been there for years, so it's not doing any harm
[19:11:05] danielk22: ATSC doesn't call for any QAM support, but de facto != de jure
[19:11:12] sphery: yeah, guess that would work, too
[19:13:45] stuartm: I was surprised to find that the RadioTimes data is much better than I even thought at providing the season/episode/total info – it's got episode numbers for soaps and news format programming – more or less complete coverage
[19:17:50] stuartm: so we need a name for the Internal Web Server, that's terser and catchy but which clearly distinguishes it from mythweb
[19:18:03] stuartm: and preferably not "mythweb 2.0"
[19:18:43] sphery: also, I have a feeling you'll get complaints from some users who are used to seeing syndicatedepisodenumber in mythweb when all of a sudden they don't have a value in it
[19:18:48] sphery: stuartm: ^^^
[19:19:04] sphery: so you may need to add in proper season/episode number support
[19:19:41] sphery: the synepnum is displayed in, upcoming recordings and detail pages if you enable it in mythweb settings under TV|Customize Screens
[19:19:57] sphery: it's called "Episode number", though it's not really one
[19:20:09] sphery: (or at least not one that means anything to a user)
[19:20:17] stuartm: sphery: yeah that's one reason I was inclined to leave it alone, at least until everywhere has been updated to display the season/episode info
[19:20:33] sphery: yeah
[19:21:26] sphery: after your changes, though, you're not writing the values into syndicatedepisodenumber, anymore, are you?
[19:21:37] sphery: so new recordings/listings won't have it there
[19:21:38] stuartm: sphery: it's still being written for now
[19:21:41] sphery: oh, ok
[19:22:22] sphery: so, yeah, makes sense to leave it as is until everything does the right thing
[19:24:55] stuartm: I'm not personally going to update mythweb, I'll leave that to someone who actually thinks that it has a future
[19:25:33] sphery: hehe, yeah--and, btw, I love that you're working on putting its functionality into backend http server
[19:26:40] sphery: I think MythWeb as it exists today should disappear, and a new "MythWeb" should be created that simply a) proxies requests to the backend web server and b) skins the pages with CSS (to allow theming)
[19:27:27] sphery: that way you don't have to expose all of the capabilities of the backend web server to the Internet and can take advantage of Apache's authentication and security stuff
[19:28:52] sphery: and, of course, can access the built-in web application through port 80 for convenience (or whatever port you need to run your web server on to work with your ISPs requirements)
[19:35:05] stuartm: one of the things I wanted to get away from was the need to install and configure apache, not that I mind if people want to use it as a proxy, but it becomes optional and 'mythweb 2' works out of the box
[19:35:27] stuartm: fwiw, the internal stuff uses css too, that's naturally where you'd do the theming
[19:37:08] stuartm: and I'll be working on making it easier to theme, both superficially through css and by abstracting as much of the QT Script out so that themers can edit/override the templates
[19:38:13] sphery: right, exactly... the MythWeb proxy would be an optional thing, and the CSS I mentioned is just alternate styles/themes (i.e. exactly like current MythWeb styles the backend status page differently from the built-in web server)
[19:38:37] sphery: but if you're building in theming support to the built-in code, then all that's left for an external MythWeb would be the proxy stuff
[19:39:22] stuartm: yeah, I'm just mentioning that 'theming' the internal server will be possible, without the need to do it in an intermediary application
[19:40:36] sphery: that's nice
[19:43:34] stuartm: and it will be at least as capable as the mythweb theming, meaning you can change the content as well as layout in a way that's difficult or impossible with pure css, that should make it possible to create a good mobile experience
[19:45:23] sphery: very nice
[20:08:14] stuartm: QT Script is more or less identical to javascript, so it's accessible to anyone with a web design background, with all the heavy lifting hidden away behind the services API that guide grid was very easy to write and does it all with not a lot of scripting (after some cleanup/refactoring I should be able to reduce it further)
[20:10:00] stuartm: it's really quite elegant, once we build out the services api and create a few more utility functions to do some of the common stuff it should be considerably easier to maintain than mythweb was
[20:10:26] joki (joki!~joki@p548619BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[20:17:11] joki (joki!~joki@p5486381D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #mythtv
[20:37:21] amessina (amessina!~amessina@2001:470:c1dc:7779:d6be:d9ff:fe8d:7c1e) has joined #mythtv
[20:51:58] stuartm: dblain: doing some more reading/experimenting it seems websocket isn't a true socket API, it's a protocol that requires both ends support websocket
[20:52:51] stuartm: but I don't think it would take much to add websocket support to the backend, especially if someone wants to borrow from whatever was implemented for torc
[20:53:42] stuartm: it's a shame that they didn't make it a true socket
[20:54:10] Jordack (Jordack!~Jordack@h69-131-44-221.plmomi.dedicated.static.tds.net) has quit ()
[21:12:03] Steve-Goodey (Steve-Goodey!~steve@host86-134-193-50.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[21:30:46] amessina (amessina!~amessina@2001:470:c1dc:7779:d6be:d9ff:fe8d:7c1e) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[21:31:32] dblain: stuartm: I'll take a look at what it will take to implement websockets. Do you have an immediate need for it or just thinking "nice to have future features"?
[21:32:20] stuartm: future features, I'm a long way off actually needing it
[21:33:18] stuartm: it's mostly for updating the internal webserver pages as required, e.g. we could update the recording list as new recordings start or are deleted by another frontend
[21:33:52] stuartm: update the guide to reflect changes in scheduling, that sort of thing
[21:34:16] dblain: okay, depending on how extensive the spec is, I'll start with what's needed to tie in mythevents
[21:34:46] dblain: with the goal to have a complete spec implementation
[21:36:44] stuartm: cool, thanks
[21:54:12] SteveGoodey (SteveGoodey!~steve@host86-134-193-50.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[22:15:09] stichnot: stuartm: that would be freakin awesome.
[23:19:05] jya (jya!~jyavenard@mythtv/developer/jya) has joined #mythtv

IRC Logs collected by BeirdoBot.
Please use the above link to report any bugs.