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Monday, October 7th, 2013, 00:01 UTC
[00:01:11] jya: stuartm: according to the message on the user list, the guy just upgraded to 0.27... was working before upgrade, not working now
[00:01:41] jya: i can't recall when I last upgraded VLC (I have an update pending but can't be bothered)... and I used it a few months ago on 0.26
[00:03:06] jya: it seems to work on vlc on my ipad...
[00:03:38] jya: oh, the sort options are much more useful
[00:04:33] stuartm: looks like it uses libupnp, so an upgrade there could also explain it
[00:16:57] stuartm: looking at the entire traffic via wireshark, all vlc does is make half a dozen 'getDeviceDesc' calls back to back (this alone seems broken), after the first one it then calls POST /CDS_Contentsc and SUBSCRIBE /CDS_EventDesc, in both cases we return a 404 error
[00:17:17] stuartm: that's the entire extent of it's communication with the backend
[00:18:13] stuartm: the response from getDeviceDesc contains the correct urls, vlc just ignores them
[00:18:19] jya: ok
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[00:18:59] ** knightr wonders if the sc at the end of CDS_Controlsc is sent because the buffer they use is either not properly cleared after sending a CDS_EventDesc or they forgot that this command was shorter than the other and sent the last two bytes of the previous command... **
[00:20:48] stuartm: knightr: actually, I think you've hit the nail on the head, although it's more likely that both are broken because they've not cleared it after getDeviceDesc
[00:21:35] stuartm: getDevice is 9 chars, CDS_Event is 9 chars, so it becomes CDS_EventDesc
[00:22:38] stuartm: CDS_Content is eleven chars, so is CDS_EventDe ... becoming CDS_Contentsc
[00:23:39] stuartm: so yeah, definitely a bug in vlc/libupnp
[00:24:22] stuartm: a fairly surprising one, you'd think that would show up pretty quickly in testing
[00:24:43] dblain: Darkchaos: If you're looking for a windows frontend, we've been working on compiling native windows exe's. It hasn't been 100% tested yet but it does run with some configuration. If interested follow these instructions to compile it:
[00:26:22] Darkchaos: ok thank you. I'll see if I do because I don't like MinGW on my system that much (screwed up path etc, but will see)
[00:27:06] Darkchaos: oh or do I only need MinGW in case I use make?
[00:27:33] dblain: Darkchaos: it still uses mingw, but just to run FFmpeg configure script. It uses visual studio to build the actua dll's.
[00:29:04] stuartm: knightr: thanks for the pointer, I've been working with QString for so long that it never occurred to me :)
[00:29:21] dblain: the main build of mythtv uses's Qmake to generate native nmake makefiles, or you can ask configure.ps1 to generate vcxproj & sln files if you want to debug it.
[00:31:58] knightr: stuartm, no problem... LOL, it's even worse than I thought, I thought CDS_EventDesc was an acceptable command (it sounded like it could exist) when that command too had been corrupted...
[00:34:56] stuartm: yeah, Contentsc was obviously garbage, but EventDesc seemed reasonable even if it didn't match what we specified in the device description response – I grepped the upnp docs and googled multiple times looking for some reference that might explain why they were using EventDesc :)
[00:35:08] stuartm: now we know they weren't (intentionally)
[00:36:27] wagnerrp: dblain: you said there was some free "Visual Studio Express", or something like that?
[00:36:44] knightr: wagnerrp, Express is the free version...
[00:36:47] stuartm: I have the pcap if anyone wants to take a look, I filtered out everything except the three relevant conversations
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[00:37:33] knightr: I googled for it and it didn't occur to me the reason why I wasn't finding it was because that one too had been corrupted...
[00:37:57] ** knightr needs another coffee... **
[00:38:41] knightr: actually I need a coffee, I haven't drank one in years...
[00:38:52] wagnerrp: HAHAHAHAHAHA
[00:39:17] wagnerrp: i get a page asking me to download a validation tool, and enter the code into the page so i can download it
[00:39:40] wagnerrp: so i download the tool, run it, and it tells me the version is too old and no longer supported
[00:40:19] dblain: wagnerrp: Yes, visual Studio Extress is free. (just a registration is needed to turn from a trial to perminant license)
[00:40:48] dblain: 2010 is older but shouldn't be unsupported yet
[00:41:23] wagnerrp: this was actually for VirtualPC
[00:41:33] wagnerrp: last time i tried this, i remember it being awfully messy
[00:41:49] wagnerrp: going to try to build binaries in a VM first
[00:44:54] dblain: ah. I tried to make it as simple and clean as possible. There are a few tools needed due to dependencies. FFMpeg being the messiest
[00:45:22] wagnerrp: i'm talking about the whole mess of mingw and friends
[00:45:25] wagnerrp: are those no longer needed?
[00:46:30] dblain: unfortunately ffmpeg still needs mingw, but only for the configure script and gnu make. It uses msvc as the actual compler
[00:47:39] dblain: I could work around the dependecy of mingw but I'd need to create a pro file for ffmpeg and then we'd need to maintain it. Not sure how everyone would feel about that.
[00:47:42] wagnerrp: IE is doing no better trying to authenticate for VPC than firefox did
[00:48:05] wagnerrp: might be because i ran the 64-bit version
[00:48:24] dblain: I haven't used virtual PD in a while... I'm assuming you're using windows xp?
[00:48:30] wagnerrp: 7
[00:49:30] dblain: never mind. I thought 7 had hyper-v... not until 8
[00:50:02] dblain: I'm using hyper-v on windows 2008 r2 server for the build machine.
[00:50:22] wagnerrp: considering i don't have a touch screen, and i have multiple monitors, there's no reason for me to touch 8
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[00:52:11] dblain: I find windows 8 faster to boot and a better overall os. I have 3 screens attached and almost never need to use the start screen. I have no need for apps on my desktop. (Although the touch support works well on my surface pr)
[00:52:16] dblain: pro
[00:52:22] wagnerrp: and of course now it wants to restart
[00:52:25] ** wagnerrp grumbles **
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[01:00:45] wagnerrp: huh, i though there you were allowed to spawn multiple windows VMs on the same license
[01:00:48] wagnerrp: XP mode it is...
[01:05:25] Darkchaos: btw dblain: isn't it possible to cross-compile mythtv on a linux machine to windows (with hardlinking every library)
[01:06:45] dblain: Darkchaos: Yes, someone said they were successful cross-compiling for a windows targe on linux. I wanted to use windows tools to compile and debug (I like the features of Visual Studio debugger)
[01:07:08] Darkchaos: and is there a way I could commit to mythtv? Like: are there easy fixes everybody could do or are there only hard problems, one needs exact knowledge over mythtv?
[01:07:57] wagnerrp: you can only commit if you've got repository access
[01:08:08] wagnerrp: but you can still create a patch, and submit it to trac
[01:09:13] Darkchaos: yes that's what I was thinking of, however I need to admit, that I never "patched" to a big project. I Only use git for my own rep
[01:09:46] wagnerrp: you can commit it to your own repo, and use git to generate the patch
[01:10:45] Darkchaos: yes but the question was: Is there infact a need of coders?
[01:11:43] wagnerrp: there's always need for coders, or if you want to translate, or theme, or work on documentation, or...
[01:14:15] Darkchaos: is there a page where all "requests" are on? Like I could provide german translation, but I believe that it might be 100% translated
[01:14:57] wagnerrp: knightr would know about the translations if he's still around
[01:15:54] wagnerrp: trac is full of tickets needing bug fixes
[01:16:09] wagnerrp: feature requests go here, and are typically forgotten...
[01:16:31] wagnerrp: only feature requests with patches are allowed to go on trac
[01:26:22] jya: wagnerrp: I think it's a crap way to go... and certainly the best way to completely ignore stuff to the point where no one will bother posting anything...
[01:26:30] jya: old policy that makes no sense....
[01:27:20] jya: i certainly ask people on the user list to lodge feature request on trac and assigned them to me... why should I check two different sources for similar information.
[01:28:24] wagnerrp: i agree that it's a bad system, but i do believe all those thousands of feature requests would be a clutter on trac
[01:28:47] wagnerrp: there was a plan to set up something like ideatorrent, but then ideatorrent was abandoned by its developers
[01:29:24] wagnerrp: and when you tell people to add a ticket to trac, you're already filtering for things you actually want to work on
[01:29:33] wagnerrp: so it may as well be a "developer task" at that point
[01:31:31] Darkchaos: how could I help translating? . . . sult.html#de I see it's only a few strings, however I could do that, I'm sure
[01:32:25] wagnerrp: looks like it's closer to 6500 than "a few"
[01:32:42] wagnerrp: or do you mean just a few remaining?
[01:33:02] Darkchaos: yes, only ~300
[01:33:50] knightr: Darkchaos, wagnerrp it is currently over 99% translated (only a few strings that were added close to release are not translated)
[01:34:25] knightr: you could ask Florian if he needs help, he does it alone currently...
[01:36:44] Darkchaos: I think I'll do, but now it is bed time, 3:30am :P
[01:37:40] knightr: (
[01:37:49] knightr: np...
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[12:50:01] stuartm: MythFillMaxHour / MythFillMinHour are stored as local time ...
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[18:28:38] stichnot: stuartm: fyi, lately I've been noticing that navigation in the pbb is very sluggish on my dev laptop when connecting to the production backend over wireless. It can take about 1 second from pressing an arrow key until the selection moves to the next item. My first suspicion would be [8b557c9] which fetches the full-size preview image instead of hardcoded 320x240. I'll take a closer look...
[18:28:40] stichnot: ...tomorrow.
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[18:36:30] stuartm: stichnot: I'd have to check, but loading of that image should be backgrounded so it wouldn't affect the speed of pbb, and once it's been loaded once, a scaled copy is stored in the image cache forever more, so you'd have to be paging through new recordings for it to make a difference even if they were foreground loaded
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[19:24:05] peper03: I finally upgraded my production box at the weekend to 0.27 (I know, I know). What with one thing or another I didn't notice until this morning that it doesn't seem to want to shut down (it/s a combined BE/FE). It seems the system is never idling. The MythWelcome logs look odd:
[19:24:38] peper03: What's running every 30 seconds causing the idle timer to be suspended (and presumably reset)?
[19:27:27] stuartm: have you tried it without mythwelcome?
[19:28:52] peper03: Not yet. I noticed this morning and shut it down directly in MythWelcome, which for whatever reason didn't set a wakeup time, so one of the kids' programmes didn't record, but that's not critical. I've only just had time to look into it more closely.
[19:30:03] peper03: I think I've got the frontend idle time set to 90 minutes. MythWelcome is set to 5 minutes. That way when we know we're done, the box shuts down quickly.
[19:30:20] stuartm: I don't use mythwelcome or mythshutdown, so I don't know whether those are working correctly in 0.27, but I have the combined fe/be shutting down using the internal shutdown/idle capability just fine in 0.27
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[19:31:55] stuartm: peper03: you can just hit menu while in the main menu – 'Enter Standby', that may or may not give you the equivalent functionality of exiting to mythwelcome
[19:32:32] peper03: Looking at the code, it would seem that it's triggered by MythSystemLegacy::Run, but that seems to be called from a lot of places :(
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[19:33:34] stuartm: peper03: are you using any system event > scripts?
[19:33:44] peper03: stuartm: As a last resort, I could point my wife in that direction. Would be better if I didn't have to :)
[19:33:56] peper03: stuartm: Not that I'm aware of.
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[19:34:41] stuartm: could actually be mythwelcome itself, iirc it can trigger mythshutdown --check or something similar
[19:35:08] stuartm: could even be that that command is failing, which is what is triggering it to happen over and over again
[19:35:34] peper03: Just looking to see if there's any logging in MythSystemLegacy to see what it's trying to run...
[19:35:37] stuartm: peper03: try -v system
[19:38:08] stuartm: actually, it _is_ mythwelcome, since the LockInputDevices appears in the mythwelcome log it can only be that process which is running the process
[19:38:28] stuartm: :)
[19:38:51] peper03: That's true. How ironic...
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[19:41:39] stuartm: wouldn't be difficult to have the frontend optionally go into standby instead of exiting when Escape is pressed in the menu ... think I'll add that, would be one less reason for mythwelcome
[19:42:44] peper03: WelcomeDialog::updateStatusMessage gets called every 30 seconds and that in turn calls mythshutdown. Doh!
[19:42:47] stuartm: and mythshutdown is now in my sights because it uses completely different code to do the same thing as the backend does internally (and more safely)
[19:43:32] stuartm: peper03: that system call shouldn't reset the idle timer, might just be a case of changing the args so that it doesn't block
[19:43:47] peper03: Ok, so as it is, mythwelcome is broken.
[19:44:32] peper03: stuartm: The system call causes the input devices to be lock, which as of [cac1413] ( suspends the idle timer.
[19:44:34] stuartm: blocking system calls interupt the timer because they are meant to be used for stuff like mythgame, or mythnetvision
[19:44:59] peper03: I assume that PauseIdleTimer also resets it.
[19:45:21] stuartm: yup
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[19:45:56] stuartm: peper03: just need to change the flags used, not all system calls lock inputs
[19:46:20] stuartm: it's only when spawning a gui app that you need to do so
[19:47:13] peper03: Ok, so the call to myth_system needs replacing with code to create an instance of MythSystemLegacy directly (with different parameters)?
[19:49:19] stuartm: peper03: no, the second arg to myth_system are the flags it should use, they are defined in mythsystem.h from ln 36
[19:49:28] stuartm: specifically you need kMSDontBlockInputDevs
[19:50:18] peper03: Ah, yes. I see.
[19:50:51] stuartm: that should probably be applied to most of the system calls in mythwelcome, anything that doesn't open the frontend basically
[19:50:55] peper03: Thought myth_system was a wrapper for legacy code that hadn't been updated for MythSystemLegacy :)
[19:51:21] peper03: s/wrapper/helper/
[19:51:58] stuartm: I've lost track of the system stuff, no idea what is new, what is old and what we're supposed to be using :)
[19:53:19] peper03: It's all new to me :) Life has taken over a bit recently. I'm way behind on everything (hence the upgrade at the weekend).
[19:56:36] peper03: Hmm. Do I add kMSDontBlockInputDevs to the shutdown calls? :)
[19:57:02] stuartm: yes
[19:57:24] stuartm: tbh, it really should be the default because there are very few cases where you'd not want to use it
[19:57:34] stuartm: wagnerrp: ^^
[20:07:27] peper03: I guess the only problem with adding it as a default is that as it stands, there's no way to disable it. Although you could just change it to kMSBlockInputDevs, which avoids the negative logic used at present.
[20:09:36] stuartm: it could be disabled, ~kMSDontBlockInputDevs
[20:10:02] stuartm: but I agree it would be clearer if it was just kMSBlockInputDevs
[20:25:31] stichnot: stuartm: you could be right about background preview image loading and the message "Preview file too big 1481110 > 204800" is just a red herring. Also, I'm seeing an excessive number of queries like "SELECT status FROM jobqueue WHERE type = '2' AND chanid ..." on each arrow key press, though it doesn't seem like enough to add up to nearly a second.
[20:35:29] stuartm: you didn't mention the 'Preview file too big' messages before, those should be looked at it, I'm not sure where those would come from ...
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[20:49:47] stichnot: sorry for the vague report, I was just checking if there was anything obvious before digging into it. FWIW, I've also noticed increased sluggishness on the gigabit network-connected ION frontend, though not nearly as much as the much faster laptop over wireless, so I assume it is something network related.
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[20:50:40] stichnot: I was also wondering if reducing the image cache size isn't playing nicely with my theme
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[21:01:05] stuartm: the string cache ... hmm, maybe, if the theme is causing a complete redraw of the screen it's possible
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[21:13:58] peper03: stuartm, wagnerrp: Inverting the logic of kMSDontBlockInputDevs –
[21:14:08] peper03: Quite possible I've missed something, though.
[21:20:51] peper03: And MythWelcome still doesn't seem to work properly :( Shows 'MythTV is idle' but no 'and will shutdown in x seconds'.
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[21:21:58] peper03: Entering standby from the menu in MythFrontend seemed to work ok, so I guess that'll be the solution for the time being.
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[21:50:23] wagnerrp: stuartm, peper03: IIRC, i just followed the existing logic of myth_system, which defaulted to blocking inputs during the duration of the call
[21:51:35] wagnerrp: although that would only matter to the frontend
[21:51:45] wagnerrp: wouldn't the shutdown command be called by mythbackend or mythshutdown?
[21:54:31] stuartm: wagnerrp: mythwelcome calls mythshutdown which actually shuts down the system, mythwelcome was blocking inputs when calling mythshutdown
[21:55:13] wagnerrp: is that really an issue? i mean it is shutting down
[21:55:47] stuartm: yes, blocking the inputs causes the idle timer to reset, preventing the shutdown
[21:56:30] stuartm: the shutdown logic in mythbackend itself is entirely separate to all of that, and mythwelcome/mythshutdown are mostly redundant these days (aiming for completely redundant by the next release)
[21:56:36] wagnerrp: ah
[22:03:40] skd5aner: stuartm: the last time i tried to use mythshutdown/mythwelcome was 3+ years ago. I gave up when it basically wouldn't work well with a combined slave backend/frontend
[22:04:21] skd5aner: stuartm: just bringing it up, as it was a showstopper for me...
[22:05:36] stuartm: well I've never tried that combination, but the internal stuff should handle that better – the frontend will go idle, the master backend will then decide whether it's appropriate to shutdown the slave
[22:07:02] stuartm: at this point in time, the mythbackend shutdown is much more sophisticated since it's all controlled from the master, and as of this week it also anticipates the need to fetch guide data (will be adding support for EIT soon) so it will stay awake to grab it or wake up once a day to do it
[22:09:09] stuartm: the frontend idle timer means you don't have to remember to exit a frontend to allow everything to power down
[22:09:56] stuartm: and all that's really missing from the equation atm is the logic to have a remote frontend be able to shut itself down
[22:11:32] stuartm: well, I'd like to build in the wakeonlan for slaves, have each slave auto-register it's mac address with the backend etc
[22:12:02] stuartm: but since I don't have a slave that's lower down the list of priorities
[22:20:18] skd5aner: stuartm: #7762
[22:20:18] ** MythLogBot **
[22:22:18] skd5aner: I know there were other references about it discussed in the past, but my google-fu is failing me now... oh well, jsut wnated to put it on your radar since you were looking at the topic
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