MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

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Friday, September 20th, 2013, 00:01 UTC
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[04:12:51] stichnot: Running Ubuntu 10.04. I did "apt-get install libexiv2-dev", but compilation fails because of a missing include exiv2/exiv2.hpp. Changing this to exiv2/image.hpp fixes the build.
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[08:03:36] stuarta: stuartm: ubuntu 10.04 is pretty old ;-)
[08:03:46] stuarta: stichnot: ^^^
[08:03:53] stuarta: stuartm: ignore that
[08:04:03] ** stuarta curses nick completion **
[08:16:52] stuarta: that new code needs plenty more conditional in it to make it compile
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[08:51:35] stuartm: stichnot: yeah as stuarta says it is 3 years old
[08:51:58] coling: stuartm, (or others) I'm seeing quite a lot of changes to the tarball format in 0.27 but don't see any announcement of this on the list or in the notes.
[08:52:24] stuartm: could add a version check to configure, but I'll need to figure out what the minimum requirement is
[08:52:25] coling: Is this the "new" format going forward (one tarball for both tv and plugins)?
[08:52:39] stuartm: coling: yes it is
[08:53:01] stuartm: it's an automatic tarball of the -fixes branch at the moment you download
[08:53:05] coling: OK, so I guess I'll refactor the specs accordingly :)
[08:53:07] coling: Ohhh
[08:53:15] coling: Hmm, that's not so nice :(
[08:53:18] stuartm: as opposed to a static snapshot
[08:53:36] coling: So the same name of file will be totally different depending on when you download it?
[08:53:53] stuartm: no, name should remain the same
[08:53:55] coling: That will be quite hard to track as to which version you actually have.
[08:54:15] coling: Yeah that's what I mean – the filename will be the same but the contents will vary depending on when you download it.
[08:54:51] ** coling used to use the upstream tarball and then apply -fixes stuff as a patch **
[08:55:02] stuartm: coling: correct, actual version information (sha1, branch) should appear in EXPORTED_VERSION
[08:56:11] stuartm: coling: you could use this url instead to get the tag – https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/archive/v0.27.tar.gz
[08:56:15] coling: Still seems all rather opaque to me. As a general rule if I see fedora has version 1.2.3 of package x and applies patches on top, it means I can manage things better (not mythtv specific), but this now keeps things hidden away a a bit.
[08:56:19] coling: Ahhh!
[08:56:24] coling: That's what I'll do then.
[08:56:26] coling: Perfect :)
[08:56:34] coling: Thanks!
[08:57:27] stuartm: we just wanted users using the tarballs to get the latest fixes instead of something that could be months out of date
[08:57:49] stuartm: and using githubs auto-archive url was a good way to do that
[08:59:28] coling: Yeah I agree with the sentiment, but I think the lack of properly named tarballs is not nice. Perhaps just doing a 2-weekly/monthly tag of a point release on the fixes branch would be clearer? (does require more manual intervention tho' which sucks). It would be nice if github could name the tarballs with the current date or something.
[09:00:41] coling: But no worries, I'll just keep with the current strategy (I really don't like pushing a new 80mb file into our binary repo whenever a new patch is added either, so my current approach will reduce the churn there too)
[09:00:44] stuartm: coling: I've never checked the mageia/mandriva packages, are you ensuring that the correct version information is displayed for --version?
[09:01:12] coling: MythTV Version : 0.26.1–2.mga4.tainted
[09:01:17] coling: for example
[09:01:31] coling: I should probably push the fixes sha1 in there too.
[09:01:41] coling: Will do that after the repo
[09:01:53] coling: erm, s/repo/rework for the new tarball layout/
[09:02:02] ** coling pressed return too quick **
[09:02:49] coling: Having all built from one source will help tho', as I had to use nice git diff options to strip the prefix when generating the fixes patches before due to the split layout.
[09:03:09] stuartm: sha1 would be good, 'git describe' output would be better, but to do that you'd need to pull from git, store than string before archiving
[09:03:46] coling: That shoudl be doable
[09:04:44] stuartm: the version output is mostly for our benefit when users are reporting bugs
[09:05:46] coling: Aye
[09:06:01] stuartm: seeing you here reminds me that I still need to submit that bug report for the lirc service config
[09:06:51] coling: Oh right, yeah I remember you mentioning that a while back... I don't think my lirc dongly thing even works anymore – not used it in years... CEC FTW!
[09:07:16] coling: But yeah if it needs fixed, I should do that :)
[09:11:10] stuartm: I need to read up on those configs, what we need to do is exec "echo lirc > echo lirc > /sys/class/rc/rc{ID_OF_DEV}/protocols" when lirc starts (and the reverse when it stops)
[09:11:33] stuartm: obviously without the double "echo lirc >" :)
[09:11:38] coling: :)
[09:12:35] coling: What is "the reverse" tho'? (technically it would be reading "lirc" from the device but I suspect that's not what you mean :D
[09:12:41] coling: I guess echo ""?
[09:14:00] stuartm: well that is a good question, I knew you'd ask, but I'm not actually sure
[09:14:56] stuartm: ok, seems like the default is rc-5, so it would be echo rc-5
[09:14:56] coling: If we have a unit for lirc@devname.service , does ID_OF_DEV relate to that? Or can we look it up via udevadm incantation? If so, then a simple ExecStartPre and ExecStartPost should do the trick.
[09:16:22] stuartm: /dev/lirc1 should be a direct mapping to rc1 etc
[09:17:11] stuartm: the old init script would iterate over all the rc and set them all to lirc, but as I recall you wanted it to be more specific going forward
[09:17:39] coling: OK, so I guess technically we could just use the id as the instance, e.g. lircd@1.service then the echo's could be done quite simply.
[09:17:50] coling: In theory at least.
[09:18:56] stuartm: coling: the other problem was that the device id was hardcoded, so making that configurable would be good
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[09:20:15] stuartm: I've got 3 RC capable cards installed, so three lirc device nodes, that wouldn't be uncommon
[09:21:32] coling: stuartm, so with the instance names, it should just be a matter of enabling the units, e.g. "systemctl enable lircd@1.service lircd@2.service "
[09:25:41] stuartm: ok
[09:27:09] coling: Tho' actually, thinking about this in more depth... I wonder if some of the cards take a while to initialise... perhaps this is actually an instance unit that should be triggered via a udev rule instead... Hmmm.
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[10:42:29] wagnerrp_: MythBuild_: force build master-freebsd-64bit now
[10:42:30] MythBuild_: build forced [ETA 10m31s]
[10:42:30] MythBuild_: I'll give a shout when the build finishes
[10:48:31] stuarta: wagnerrp_: morning, did you see my question last night about why the python bindings install where they do?
[10:49:57] stuarta: question was: why are some of the modules install in $PREFIX/share/mythtv and some in $PREFIX/lib/python2.7/... ??
[10:50:10] stuarta: for example share/mythtv/metadata/Movie/tmdb3.py imports MythTV.tmdb3 which lives in lib/python2.7/site-packages/MythTV/tmdb3 and thus isn't in the sys.path that is assembled from the cwd of the script being called, and the normal lib directories
[10:58:48] wagnerrp_: the python bindings leave it up to the python installer where to put things
[10:59:12] wagnerrp_: if a prefix of /usr or /usr/local is used, the bindings are completely hands off, and it's entirely up to python where it wants things
[10:59:33] stuarta: i saw something about that in setup.py
[10:59:35] wagnerrp_: if the prefix is elsewhere, it will pass the prefix onto the python installer, but the exact positioning is still left up to it
[11:00:10] stuarta: hmmm, that explains why i get stuff in $PREFIX/lib/python2.7/
[11:00:39] stuarta: and thus why my bindings don't work (as they can't find the modules in the above path)
[11:01:34] stuarta: do you have any suggestions on how i could encourage python to keep them together?
[11:02:06] wagnerrp_: keep the bindings where python wants them, rather than the alternate prefix you have specified?
[11:03:47] wagnerrp_: seems easier to stuff this into the environment of any mythtv applications... http://docs.python.org/2/using/cmdline.html#envvar-PYTHONPATH
[11:04:01] stuarta: not exactly. i run 0.27 and master in parallel, so i need to maintain the prefix separation. the issue is python is prepending the sys.path with the path to the module being called, but that doesn't include $PREFIX/lib/python2.7/
[11:04:24] stuarta: ie $PREFIX/share/mythtv gets added to sys.path
[11:04:47] wagnerrp_: i don't know why that would get added
[11:04:59] wagnerrp_: as far as i know, our installer doesn't touch those values
[11:05:00] stuarta: oh i worked that out. python does that itself
[11:05:27] stuarta: so sys.path = <path_to>/script.py + the normal system paths
[11:06:01] MythBuild_: build #4439 of master-freebsd-64bit is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/4439
[11:06:14] wagnerrp_: oh, right
[11:06:46] stuarta: that's the easy bit :)
[11:06:48] wagnerrp_: anyway... at the moment, just add the installed location of the python bindings to the PYTHONPATH environmental variable
[11:06:51] wagnerrp_: and it will be able to find them
[11:07:13] wagnerrp_: what's the other one...
[11:07:21] wagnerrp_: MythBuild_: force build msvc-freebsd-64bit now
[11:07:21] MythBuild_: build forced [ETA 17m11s]
[11:07:22] MythBuild_: I'll give a shout when the build finishes
[11:07:36] wagnerrp_: brb
[11:07:39] stuarta: np
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[11:13:51] stuarta: danielk22: ah there you are, can you add libexiv2-dev or exiv2-devel packages to your builders please?
[11:13:59] stuarta: depending on the distro
[11:20:17] stuartm: or lib{64}exiv2-devel
[11:20:37] stuartm: although we don't have mandriva/mageia builders
[11:24:23] stuarta: feel free to make one
[11:25:53] MythBuild_: build #10 of msvc-freebsd-64bit is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/msvc . . . it/builds/10
[11:25:54] stuartm: I'd love to be able to, maybe when I get some better hardware
[11:26:36] stuarta: do they have a free version of their distro?
[11:26:40] stuartm: still, there's nothing different enough about Mageia to justify having a builder for it
[11:26:51] stuarta: ah pretty close to fedora?
[11:27:07] stuartm: stuarta: Mageia is completely free, Mandriva was too but like Redhat they sold support
[11:27:37] stuartm: Mandriva is pretty much dead though, most people jumped ship to Mageia when Mandriva got into financial trouble
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[11:29:54] stuartm: stuarta: fairly close, although it's deviated quite a bit over time, what set it apart were the configuration tools which were way ahead of their time (not so much now)
[11:58:22] danielk22: stuarta: sure.. what are those?
[11:59:27] stuartm: for reading exif and other embedded metadata from images
[11:59:37] stichnot: stuartm: I know 10.04 is old, but it ain't (too) broke, so...
[11:59:46] stuartm: used by the new image gallery
[12:00:10] stichnot: I'm not opposed to building my own packages, but I thought you should know for the configure script
[12:03:57] danielk22: stuarta: Ok, it should be installed everywhere.. let me know if I missed any.
[12:04:29] stichnot: stuartm: looks like 10.04 has libexiv2–6 and my 12.04 dev system has libexiv2–11, fwiw
[12:06:25] danielk22: PS I jumped ship before Mandrake became Mandriva. The problem was stability, they were releasing daily but without the automated integration tests to verify that everything was working first.
[12:12:38] stuartm: I will say that Mageia seems to be lacking in staff, stuff gets packaged up by people who clearly don't actually use it, so for example the version of kmail/akonadi in Mageia 3 is buggy (although KDE have to shoulder some of the blame, I've never known a time when akonadi wasn't unstable)
[12:15:53] stuarta: stichnot: well if you can fix the configure and the relevant code to work with both, feel fre
[12:16:27] stuarta: danielk22: i'll poke the builders and see what happens
[12:16:43] stichnot: stuarta: looking into it now, but there's a lot to rebuild since yesterday :)
[12:17:07] stuarta: aye
[12:18:50] stuartm: one of the more glaring examples of f'd up packaging was the steam package – the old one worked perfectly fine, then someone took it upon themselves to build a new one discarding the old patches, it just didn't work at all, hadn't even done the most basic check of starting it
[12:20:08] stuarta: at least debian/ubuntu/fedora are pretty well tested
[12:20:24] stuarta: bugs like that are squashed pretty quickly
[12:21:28] stuartm: I'm too comfortable with Mageia (Mandriva) to change now, I've been using it for years and every time I try another distro there are differences that just seem to get in my way
[12:21:36] stuarta: wtf has my f19–32bit builder gone?
[12:23:08] stuarta: \o/ WoL actually worked... :)
[12:26:41] stuarta: stuartm: there's a Qt5 incompatiblity with the new exiv2 requiring code
[12:26:55] stuarta: not looked at the why yet
[12:27:22] stuartm: that doesn't surprise me, the patch was a few months old
[12:30:02] stuarta: np
[12:32:00] stuartm: had to fix a few conflicts to get it merged, which is one reason I wanted to get it in now before it could bitrot any further
[12:32:51] stuarta: it's as good a time as any
[12:40:18] stichnot: Image gallery doesn't use storage groups? :(
[12:42:11] stuarta: file an RFE :-p
[12:42:25] stuarta: nah, actually just fix it :)
[12:43:15] stuartm: stichnot: new one does
[12:43:37] stuartm: although it's currently not a hardcoded group, which is something I'll fix soon
[12:43:51] stichnot: stuartm: it just complained that the configured directory doesn't exist
[12:44:02] stichnot: or perhaps I don't have a storage group defined?
[12:44:14] stuartm: stichnot: which one did you start, the "Image Gallery" or "New Image Gallery"?
[12:44:28] stuartm: it will warn that the storage group hasn't been configured
[12:44:32] stuartm: the new one
[12:45:36] stichnot: I guess I don't know how to get the new one...
[12:45:50] stuartm: stichnot: should just appear in the menus
[12:46:09] stichnot: oh boy I'm blind
[12:46:09] stuartm: under Media Library with the default menu
[12:46:19] stuarta: hahaha
[12:46:30] stuarta: pass that man a beer. clearly in need
[12:46:43] stichnot: a beer before 6am, sounds good!
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[12:47:22] stuartm: stichnot: create a new "Images" storage group, then go into the plugin, press menu, Settings > Name of storage group... > Set to "Images"
[12:47:23] stichnot: ok, "No image storage group has been defined", yet (unless I'm still blind) I didn't see anything like that under mythtv-setup storage group setup
[12:47:29] stichnot: ok
[12:47:39] stuartm: stichnot: right, it's not a harcoded storage group (yet)
[12:47:52] stuartm: but by the end of the day it will be
[12:47:59] stichnot: ok cool
[12:49:22] stuartm: once configured you'll need to manually start a scan (Synchronisation), that will run in the background, you'll need to exit/re-enter the screen to see the results
[12:49:35] MythBuild_: build #1216 of master-linux-64bit-clang is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/1216
[12:49:40] stuartm: it has some rough edges, but nothing we can't fix before the next release
[12:50:04] stichnot: I just want to verify that my #include change works (not just compiles) before committing
[12:50:05] MythBuild_: build #1572 of master-linux-64bit-icc is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . /builds/1572
[12:58:31] stichnot: maybe I shouldn't have picked a directory with 13,000 pictures...
[13:00:30] stuarta: hahahahaha
[13:01:27] stichnot: Error preparing query: SELECT filename, path FROM gallery_files WHERE path LIKE '%/storage/pictures/2006-08–01 Grace's camera%' AND type = '4' AND hidden = '0' LIMIT 4;
[13:01:29] stichnot: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 's camera%' AND type = '4' AND hidden = '0' LIMIT 4' at line 1
[13:01:34] stichnot: :)
[13:01:57] stichnot: I guess I shouldn't put apostrophes in my subdir names
[13:02:10] stichnot: hello sql injection attacks!
[13:02:58] stuarta: ffs, there are simple add_quotes functions floating around for that sort of crap
[13:03:31] stuartm: stuarta: nah, we should be using bound parameters, this must be one of the few places that isn't happening
[13:03:45] stuarta: much better idea
[13:04:18] stuartm: but I intend using the mythuifilebrowser for storage group directory selection in the next release, much better than having to type in the path from memory
[13:04:42] stuartm: stichnot: I'll fix that later
[13:04:48] stuartm: as long as I don't forget!
[13:04:55] stichnot: stuartm: thanks :)
[13:08:32] stichnot: remote frontend just shows blank pictures/thumbnails
[13:08:43] MythBuild_: build #10 of msvc-linux-64bit-clang is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/msvc . . . ng/builds/10
[13:09:03] MythBuild_: build #10 of msvc-linux-64bit-icc is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/msvc . . . cc/builds/10
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[16:28:57] stuartm: I don't regret merging this new gallery thing, but I could have done a better job of reviewing it
[16:29:24] stuartm: just fixing the queries I hit a couple of glaring mistakes
[16:31:10] stuarta: haha
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[16:39:35] stuartm: stuff like queries that could never have returned any results :/
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[16:44:02] dblain: I know I'm having fun with the new dependency :/ (Almost ready to push a msvc fix for it)
[16:44:51] ** dblain expects things like this to happen from time to time... above comment was meant to be humorous. **
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[16:54:48] stuartm: wagnerrp, sphery: forgive me if I've asked this before, but are there any remaining reasons to keep local file (as opposed to SG) support for mythvideo?
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[17:07:35] stuartm: AFAIK playback of encrypted isos was the last remaining reason for keeping it
[17:15:42] jpabq: bluray?
[17:16:13] stuartm: already added support for that some time back
[17:16:45] stuartm: did get broken after the last resync, but I pushed a patch from someone to fix it
[17:17:37] jpabq: okay, then I can't think of anything else.
[17:18:00] stuartm: https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/74b98b11
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[17:39:14] dblain: I guess I should just give up and define QT_DISABLE_DEPRECATED_BEFORE for msvc :( ... latest patches use deprecated functions.
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[17:43:24] danielk22: dblain: Nah, just fix those and then remove the define for all platforms.. then it will break for everyone running qt5 and get fixed sooner.
[17:44:10] danielk22: Although I noticed this morning that at least the last four qt5 on Ubuntu builds failed..
[17:44:36] dblain: danielk22: I'm sure it would cause compile errors on first rebuild since I've only tested the files used in the windows builds.
[17:45:32] danielk22: if you'd like I can clean up whatever remains on the linux side this weekend (assuming it is of reasonable proportions).
[17:45:33] dblain: danielk22: noticed the failed builds also, they are showing a very odd error that I'm not getting with Qt5.
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[17:46:45] dblain: ok, I'm make the changes to get a clean build for windows. If you don't get to it, I'll just add the define if it becomes too troublesome.
[17:47:46] danielk22: dblain: I've seen that type of error before, it's an order of macro use vs macro definition thing.
[18:03:12] stuartm: I'm having a hard time figuring out the cause of these errors – http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . e/logs/stdio
[18:03:39] stuartm: the image* classes are near carbon copies of the video* ones which are compiling fine
[18:06:49] danielk22: ./datacontracts/imageMetadataInfo.h:70:21: error: redefinition of ‘struct QMetaTypeId<DTC::ImageMetadataInfo>’
[18:06:50] gigem (gigem!~david@mythtv/developer/gigem) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:07:59] danielk22: ^^ probably a macro or template expansion before the ImageMetadataInfo class is defined.
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[18:08:57] stuartm: OK, pushed something that might work, copied what was done for the video clases
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[18:09:45] stuartm: danielk22: yeah, makes sense, not sure why it worked for QT4 ...
[18:11:32] danielk22: I think it is a macro that does template expansion in Qt5 and something else int Qt4
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[18:14:25] stuartm: does anyone want to fight for keeping the old mythgallery? I'm not planning to kill it off just yet, but maybe at some point near the end of the cycle but what I will do now if no-one objects is close all open tickets against the old version
[18:34:33] dblain: That's ugly... guess commiting pieces as they are complete but waiting to push all together causes a lot of merge commits if others pushed changes. Sorry.
[18:37:54] stuartm: ?
[18:38:33] stuartm: oh the "Merge branch 'master' of code.mythtv.org:mythtv" stuff?
[18:39:05] stuartm: I tend to do "git pull --rebase" instead, it avoids that problem
[18:39:28] dblain: yes. I commited 6 changes and there were 4 merges when I pushed.
[18:39:41] dblain: I thought we were supposed to avoid -rebase?
[18:40:53] stuartm: we're meant to avoid "git rebase", but "git pull --rebase" should be safe
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[18:41:07] dblain: good to know.
[18:42:01] stuartm: it just moves all un-synced commits to a temporary storage, reverts them, pulls upstream changes then re-applies your commits
[18:42:37] MythBuild_: build #657 of master-linux-64bit-qt5 is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . 5/builds/657
[18:42:44] dblain: I've used it before, just not on this project.
[18:42:45] danielk22: :)
[18:43:51] danielk22: The :) was for the build.. I think the avoid rebase advice was just 'in the first few weeks after you move from svn to git' advice..
[18:44:00] stuartm: "git pull --rebase" behaviour is almost identical to "svn up"
[18:44:42] stuartm: "git rebase" can cause some serious havoc from what I understand
[18:44:44] danielk22: stuartm: The problem was really that only janne really knew how to use git at the time, and he was still a beginner.
[18:45:44] danielk22: You can always abort a rebase if it goes off the rails.
[18:47:13] danielk22: I remember at the time asking how to do incremental merges and no one had a clue, so merges were actually much harder with git than svn until I figured it out... it was a trying time for mythtv revision control.
[18:47:18] stuartm: btw, any know how if it's possible to make "git am < {patch}" work as well as patch does? It's really dumb when it comes to changed line numbers etc, patch usually succeeds where 'am' fails miserably
[18:50:26] danielk22: stuartm: Are you sure you don't want to use "git apply" directly? git am seems designed for Linus' old e-mailed patches workflow.
[18:51:17] dblain: Since we're asking git advise... I'm going to delete my personal/dblain/msvc branch. Is: "git push origin  :personal/dblain/msvc" correct?
[18:52:25] stuartm: git apply is just for applying ordinary patches, git am applies patches created with git log or git-format-patch and actually commits the result with the message/author details from the patch itself
[18:52:26] danielk22: dblain: yep
[18:52:38] dblain: danielk22: thanks
[18:53:16] stuartm: you could achieve the same with git apply, but it would require several more steps and some copy/pasting
[18:53:20] danielk22: git branch -D local_branch_name <-- will delete the local copy
[18:54:45] stuartm: many of the patches we now receive are properly formatted to be applied using git am, and it's one way to handle the pull requests on github
[18:55:16] stuartm: git am --signoff < path/to/patch
[18:55:17] danielk22: stuartm: don't really know then. I've used git am, but I've also had problems with it.
[18:55:20] dblain: stuarta: I've delete my branch, feel free to take the build slaves off line.
[18:56:11] danielk22: stuartm: I do know the redirect is unnecessary though.
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[18:57:29] stuartm: danielk22: huh, so it is :)
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[19:19:22] stuarta: dblain: thanks i'll get to it later
[19:30:47] stuartm: Gary since you're reading this, I'll do another coverity build tomorrow
[19:31:50] stuartm: then Sunday I'll drive to saff lunden and pester stuarta in person until he gets the build bot setup ;)
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[19:38:18] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: Thank you.
[19:38:30] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: Sorry about that :-)
[19:39:43] stuartm: gary_buhrmaster: sorry for not replying to the email(s) :)
[19:42:22] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: NP. My expectations for email is just like (real) post. I send, and if I get something back, I am thankful. If not, I am still fine.
[19:45:52] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: After all, I respect that others have a life, and that anything I say/do is going to be way way way down the queue. Unless you are bored, or hate the current task, and then other things get pushed to the top.....
[19:46:07] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: Or maybe I am thinking of myself....
[19:49:00] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: btw, there are many people who wish git-am had a better fuzzy patch mechanism, and while --3way can help to some extent, the usual answer by the purists seems to be "ask the contributor to send another (proper) patch".
[19:50:16] stuartm: they used to say that email destroyed the art of letter writing, people could dash off a one paragraph responses where they used to write a page, these days I find even writing one paragraph to be a chore, but it feels somehow wrong to send a one sentence reply by email
[19:50:37] stuartm: only in IRC can I get away with a one word reply :)
[19:51:18] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: Which may work in certain environments, or where patches are quickly applied, or not applied at all, but clearly do not deal with other types of projects.
[19:52:08] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: I take it you are not a twitter user :-)
[19:52:22] stuartm: yes, it's just not reasonable to expect people to update their patches every few days
[19:52:35] stuartm: gary_buhrmaster: no I'm not :)
[19:55:10] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: I once had a colleague who claimed that email was going to be the death of proper human communication. I wonder what he (now) thinks of SMS, or any instant message system, which expects instant gratification via immediate quick (short) responses.
[19:58:30] jheizer: I was just complaining about text messaging an hour ago. When did a simple phone call become not allowed? I must be the only 20something that absolutely hate it.
[19:59:27] stuarta: whaaaattt!!!
[20:00:02] stuarta: stuartm: it's fine by me if you drive to suth lunden, cause i aint dere no more
[20:00:06] stuartm: although I can see it swinging too far in the wrong direction, I for one am grateful that I don't have to read or write an essay with each communication, although it's wrong to suggest that email started the trend – before email you had the telegraph and even in the early days of a proper mail system you paid by the word
[20:01:31] stuartm: before then few people could actually afford to communicate far afield, it was the privilege of those who could afford private couriers to dispatch their messages
[20:02:07] jheizer: Geez we are spoiled when you think about it that way.
[20:02:19] stuartm: so you could say email was actually the best thing that ever happened for human communication, you can communicate with anyone almost anywhere at extremely low cost
[20:04:11] stuartm: the only reason people took to writing long letters was because with the introduction of stamps, you paid the same amount no matter how much you wrote – better to write a long letter once a month than a short letter every week
[20:04:22] gary_buhrmaster: stuartm: "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness..."
[20:05:25] stuartm: :)
[20:09:39] stuartm: stuarta: Reading?
[20:09:42] MythBuild_: build #42 of master-win8-msvc-2010–32bit is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/builders/mast . . . it/builds/42
[20:10:07] stuartm: I vaguely remember someone telling me they'd moved to Reading ...
[20:10:46] stuartm: I mostly remember offering them my sympathy
[20:14:42] dblain: :) the first successful msvc build!
[20:15:04] dblain: (in master)
[20:17:08] jheizer: Awesome!
[20:17:28] stuarta: dblain: \o/
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[20:51:39] stuarta: now where has my vm host gone
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[20:55:53] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: Perhaps it went up the virtual creek without its virtual paddle?
[20:56:30] stuarta: entirely possible
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[21:10:47] stuarta: sigh. it's clearly gone on holidays, not responding to ctrl-alt-del, or hardware reset, so i've asked a little man to go and have look. this could take some time
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[21:17:23] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: I believe the PC term is a vertically challenged person :-)
[21:17:50] stuarta: would you prefer "data centre monkey"??
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[21:20:17] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: Hey! I have been one of those. And also "stupid hands" (as opposed to smart hands). Just as an amateur (not a real job, helping some people in a colo), but....
[21:20:41] stuarta: no doubt they'll come back tomorrow and say something has shit itself
[21:21:21] dblain: Well, I guess I have some work to do on the windows build. mythbackend runs, open mythfronend, tell it to record a program and the backend crashes :(... I guess I should know the inner workings of the code by the time I have a completely running system.
[21:21:24] gary_buhrmaster: stuarta: Which will be a useful, helpful, and actionable response....
[21:48:44] wagnerrp: stuartm: none at all, but if you're planning on getting rid of it, hold off until i get the new file scanner in place
[21:48:50] wagnerrp: i was planning on doing it as part of that merge
[21:49:27] wagnerrp: with the hope that i'll be able to transition users (relatively) cleanly
[21:50:32] wagnerrp: this was my last week out of town for a while, so i'll have considerably more time on my hands
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[22:30:04] stuartm: wagnerrp: ok I'll leave it, just keen to get it done before another release cycle goes by :)
[22:30:38] wagnerrp: absolutely
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[23:06:15] burble: hi, I was invited....
[23:06:31] burble: just going to chill here till something comes up
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[23:32:22] wagnerrp: invited?
[23:32:53] wagnerrp: it's not like this is a private channel. you don't need to be invited
[23:33:14] wagnerrp: but just the same, there's not a whole lot of reason to be here unless you plan on contributing to MythTV development
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[23:59:55] burble: wagnerrp, I forgot who invited me, but someone told me to come to this channel

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