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Error at /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 120:
htmlentities(): Invalid multibyte sequence in argument

    datetime:  2013-09-11 00:08:48 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities(): Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120
Tuesday, September 10th, 2013, 00:05 UTC
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[00:15:52] skd5aner: stuartm: glad to see the backtrace was fruitful :)
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[00:27:09] skd5aner: I've submitted 2 more bug reports, but fairly minor... #11837 & #11838
[00:27:09] ** MythLogBot **
[00:27:09] ** MythLogBot **
[00:27:17] skd5aner: s/but/both
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[01:49:15] dblain: stuartm: I'm not working on any upnp changes at the moment.
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[02:17:44] stichnot: skd5aner: I can't get timestretch to reset to 1 when playing/pausing. What action (PAUSE, PLAY, etc.) are you using to pause and unpause?
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[02:54:49] stichnot: Lately, mythweb has been extremely slow in making schedule changes. Any change takes 30 seconds before mythweb returns. Anyone else seeing that?
[02:59:18] stichnot: Backend log excerpt at , including the puzzling event LOCAL_SLAVE_BACKEND_ENCODERS_OFFLINE given that I have no slave backends
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[03:54:28] jya: stichnot: i've had this issue for a while… when I create a new recording, it could take about 1 minute for the page to finish reloading…
[03:55:05] jya: though, I could interrupt the page and go to the system page and it loads instantly
[03:55:16] jya: it's actually viewing any recording rule that takes forever
[04:00:16] stichnot: jya: interesting, I'm not seeing that with viewing recording rules, e.g. is instant
[04:00:44] jya: stichnot: it's not with all recording rules, but happen for all that actually did record
[04:00:52] stichnot: but Delete on the Recorded Programs page also takes a while
[04:01:41] stichnot: even my Colbert and Daily Show recording rules, which record every day, are instant to load
[04:02:11] stichnot: I would guess that something is wrong in the python bindings
[04:03:49] stichnot: jya: you were asking the other day about teletext captions and why they look different/bigger. First, I haven't yet got around to refactoring the teletextscreen.cpp code into subtitlescreen.cpp, so they have their own rendering. Second, broadcasters tend to prefer the double-size mode.
[04:04:10] stichnot: It makes me nervous to do much work on teletextscreen.cpp since I don't have my own source of content
[04:04:26] jya: ok… just felt weird in that particular file which had both a subtitle track and teletext one
[04:04:38] jya: not sure why they would bother having to ways to display subttles
[04:05:42] stichnot: I don't know... maybe for legacy decoders that can handle only the text-based captions?
[04:06:05] stichnot: like in the U.S. there is still the VBI captions in addition to the ATSC digital text captions
[04:06:47] stichnot: digital have more capabilities, but no one uses the extras because apparently they just "upconvert" from the VBI captions
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[05:28:46] stichnot: jya: just noticed that a mythweb page like takes about 7 seconds to load. I know that 7s and 30s are magic timeout constants in the backend code, so...
[05:30:07] jya: stichnot: when I go into recorded programs
[05:30:16] jya: that is pretty much instant…
[05:30:31] jya: if I click on the title of one of the recording it takes much longer..
[05:30:32] jya: let me time it
[05:32:55] jya: 2 minutes already, and still not finished :(
[05:36:27] stichnot: wish I knew php better... :(
[05:36:49] jya: i don't believe for a second it's got anything to do with php
[05:37:05] jya: still not done btw
[05:37:10] jya:
[05:37:18] jya: so similar as you
[05:37:34] jya: don't recall taking so long before… but I usually gave up anyway :)
[05:38:37] jya: well… not sure it will ever finish.. it's been 8 minutes, the page is still loading
[05:40:47] jya: oh done...
[05:40:52] jya: so about 10 minutes
[05:41:29] jya: not sure if this is related, but my main internet connection is down at present...
[05:42:22] jya: when I load the page, I see in the mythbackend.log: Sep 10 15:41:45 htpc mythlogserver: mythbackend[2928]: I ProcessRequest mainserver.cpp:1432 (HandleAnnounce) adding: as a client (events: 0)
[05:42:42] jya: if it ever tries to perform DNS lookup, that could explain the delay
[05:54:40] jya: this is the log on the backend with -v all --loglevel=debug:
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[07:02:58] jya: stichnot: I think I've found it...
[07:03:21] jya: it's in the php code, the cal to MythFrontend::findFrontends();
[07:03:33] jya: if I comment out that line, the page appears instantly
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[07:27:34] jya: hummm… i see what the problem is… I have a few frontends that aren't active and that appear in the list of entries. my ISP now provides a default search web page for when you type an invalid URL, so a hostname always resolve… so when querying the status of a frontend, this takes forever
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[07:45:17] stuartm: frontends should be on the local network through, looked up by IP not a domain/hostname?
[07:48:56] jya: stuartm: on my setup, all the frontends appear as a single name, not the fully qualified hostname
[07:49:24] jya: I've deleted the settings for 5 machines that I do not have anymore… it's much better.
[07:49:52] jya: the last issue remaining is a frontend which isn't always on, and as it's set on dhcp, the hostname only resolves when the machine is on
[07:50:20] jya: so I edited the backend machine /etc/hosts to add the hostname so it always resolve: now takes 5s for the page to load...
[07:50:29] jya: better than the 10 minutes I had earlier today
[07:51:00] jya: with my internet connection back online, it took about 2 minutes. with internet connection down: 10 minutes
[07:51:50] jya: I'm going to modify the details.php file to add a flush() in there.. At least the page loads and the wait is only for the "play recording on Frontend…" entry, rather than showing nothing
[07:52:44] jya: now, how do I clone from… can't remember :(
[08:09:48] stuartm: git clone :mythtv
[08:21:56] stuarta: morning
[08:23:56] jya: thanks…
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[08:30:24] stuartm: g'morning Stuart
[08:44:15] jya: xris: there's a few issue in the php bindings and how things timeout (or more exactly, they don't)… this cause mythweb to takes forever to load under some circumstances…
[08:44:47] stuarta: it's got a few rough edges
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[09:14:31] stuarta: netsplits--
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[13:06:06] stuartm: dblain: the current GetAlbumArt() method of services is flawed, it requires the artwork ID which isn't accessible information, most likely a user of the API will have either the track id or the album id, so I propose replacing the existing method with ones accepting either track or album ids
[13:07:15] stuartm: is adding two different methods GetAlbumArt(int AlbumId) and GetAlbumArt(int TrackId) the right way to go about it? Or should it be a single method taking both arguments (one can be left as zero)?
[13:07:42] stuartm: Or should it be GetAlbumArtForAlbum() and GetAlbumArtForTrack()?
[13:08:33] stuartm: which approach fits best with the design principles of the API?
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[13:48:05] dblain: stuartm: You can't have overloaded methods where the parameter types aren't different, so that limits the options a little.
[13:49:23] dblain: It's been awhile since I looked at those methods... was there a schema change that removes accessibility of the artwork ID? (the change you propose is fine with me, just want to minimize breaking of the api)
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[13:53:42] dblain: The more I think about it, I believe all the methods that took the unique id for the resource as the parameter were added (possibly requested by someone) so that individual resources can be accessed directly (allows for update/deleting of orphaned resources) Not sure how much it applies today.
[13:55:17] dblain: We really should have a API design in mind and refactor everything to fit it. The current methods were added organically, and not always with a big picture in mind.
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[14:03:37] stuarta: dblain: sounds like a good idea, an overall API design
[14:30:42] skd5aner: stichnot: I'm using mythmote. I was watching a recording that has a playback group that plays back at 1.4... I'd hit pause, then when I hit play, it would reset to 1.0
[14:31:31] skd5aner: stichnot: and yes, mythweb has been slow for me for most of 0.26
[14:35:24] stichnot: skd5aner: from a brief scan of the mythmote page, it looks like it uses the network interface for commands. That's a good clue and I'll try that directly.
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[14:59:05] knightr: stuarta, I think dekarl mentioned that there was a slight modification to make to the network id help text, do you know what it was?
[15:01:27] knightr: stuartm, jya what was the modification to the help text you wanted to make for the OpenGL/VAAPI dependency (or did you want to add a new message that said it was automatically changed when the user chose the VAAPI profile?)?
[15:02:13] knightr: (I had the go ahead from the translators to fix those issues so that they could translate them)
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[15:25:44] stuarta: knightr: no sorry i don't, but i can look back through the logs if that helps
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[15:34:27] stuartm: dblain: there's no way to access the artworkid for a particular song or album without direct access to the database, which defeats the point of the services AP, there are in fact two different types of albumart and different information is needed for each, you've got artwork which is just an image in the same directory as the tracks and then you've got embedded artwork
[15:36:03] stuartm: with the song id as the argument you can look up both types, even extracting embedding artwork from the file via libmythmetadata
[15:38:00] stuartm: but for the sake of the current upnp organisation, being able to look it up by albumid might be useful – although all that would do is look at the first song associated with the album, then use that tracks id to get the artwork
[15:41:25] stuartm: for now switching GetAlbumArt() to use the song ID would be sufficient, it would break backwards compatibility but I can't imagine too many people are using that method – it doesn't support embedded artwork, and it writes upnp cached versions of artwork into the same filesystem as the music which will screw up mythmusic
[15:42:51] stuartm: also won't work for read only music storage locations (which are not uncommon) hence I was going to move the caching to a tmp folder
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[16:01:00] stuartm: fwiw, the current method also makes assumptions that the artwork is local – it has no storage group support
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[16:03:05] stuartm: anyway, re-written it now to hopefully address all those issues :)
[16:05:26] stichnot: skd5aner: Can you run the frontend with -v network and tell me what NetworkControl messages show up?
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[16:09:14] stichnot: I suspect mythmote is sending commands "play speed pause" and "play speed normal". It appears that "play speed normal" is turned into "play speed 1x" which is not really correct as you've observed. However, I can't find any changes in the last year or so in any relevant section of the code, so I can't figure out what it's a regression against...
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[17:01:56] dekarl: knightr: stuarta: I was suggesting to *not* call dvb networks broken that need the network_id manually specified as its perfectly valid (though very 90's)
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[17:10:11] knightr: dekarl, so only remove "broken"? ie "Set this to the actual network ID at your location, if you have a provider that broadcasts a NIT. Leave at -1 if everything works out of the box."
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[17:10:33] knightr: stuarta ^
[17:10:46] dekarl: hmm, the sentence doesn't make sense like that :)
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[17:11:10] knightr: LOL, I guess because there's probably always a NIT?
[17:11:34] dekarl: aye, NIT is a must for at least DVB
[17:14:07] superm1: crawling near death for anyone else?
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[17:17:03] knightr: dekarl, stuarta what would you prefer then? I got the go ahead from the translators to fix those problems so we can fix them for 0.27...
[17:18:45] dekarl: how about "Set this to the actual network ID at your location, if your provider has asked you to configure a specific network_id. Leave at -1 if everything works out of the box."?
[17:19:09] dekarl: I wanted to look up some actual wording from the providers, but trac is slooooow
[17:24:47] knightr: dekarl, if you are not sure abouy the wording you can get back to me later today, I will track down the other modifications that need to be done in the mean time (though I have a feeling that if the server is having problems that will affect me (at least partially) as well
[17:25:08] knightr: s/abouy/about
[17:25:36] superm1: dekarl: seems to be both trac and regular both
[17:26:25] dekarl: stuarta, how do you like the last suggestion? -^
[17:34:19] knightr: dekarl, is the underscore supposed to be there in network_id? (I wonder how we are going to translate this if "network_id" has a special meaning...)
[17:35:29] dekarl: knightr: I think it depends on whom you ask, but I'd guess yes its part of the name
[17:36:03] dekarl: but i have seen translations like Netzwerk-ID, too
[17:37:02] stuarta: dekarl: i like it
[17:38:04] knightr: OK, I'll think I'll add a translation comment to make translators aware it has a special meaning and to act accordingly...
[17:38:36] knightr: s/translation/translator
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[17:42:13] dekarl: knightr: I think just leaving it as Network_ID (as its written on the official site) is best. To many things to do wrong for to little gain.
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[17:43:52] knightr: dekarl, that's what I'll suggest they do unless they find a good source of information in their language that says otherwise...
[17:45:19] knightr: so if I resume, I should change the text to Set this to the actual network ID at your location, if your provider has asked you to configure a specific Network_ID. Leave at -1 if everything works out of the box."?
[17:46:08] knightr: (only the second "network_id" or the first as well should be written "Network_ID"?
[17:46:10] knightr: )
[17:47:09] jpabq: If you are going to translate 'network id', should that be 'network identifier' instead?
[17:50:40] knightr: jpabq, "Network_ID" has a special meaning in the "DVB Service Information" but I am not sure if dekarl wants both to be written that way or only the second one (my guess is he wants both...)
[17:51:02] knightr: see which he posted earlier...
[17:51:13] jpabq: The way it is worded, the first should be translated, and the second left verbatim.
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[17:52:45] knightr: jpabq, you are right, that does sound like that's how it should be interpreted...
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[17:59:13] dekarl: sure, if all providers in a language/territory agree on a wording for Network_ID that would be best. But I don't think there is an easy way to find that out though.
[18:00:31] dekarl: what jpabq said. the first if the id of the network and the second is the name of that id, which is imaginatively called Network_ID :) (word-like-case for the human readable test, while its network_id in the tables in all specs)
[18:00:46] dekarl: s/if the/is the/
[18:04:48] jpabq: Personally, I think this is /slightly/ better: "If your provider has asked you to configure a specific Network_ID, set this to the actual network identifier at your location. Leave at -1 if everything works out of the box."
[18:08:31] jpabq: Or, replace that comma with 'then'
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[18:11:35] peper03: Could it not just be "If your provider has asked you to configure a specific Network_ID, enter it here. Leave it at -1 otherwise"? (no idea of the technicalities behind it, so just looking at it from a language pov)
[18:17:17] jpabq: That is good. The only advantage to translating "network identifier" is to help someone that doesn't understand what Network_ID means.
[18:18:15] peper03: Then maybe "...specific network identifier (Network_ID)..."?
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[18:42:45] knightr: peper03, jpabq, dekarl, stuarta If you contacted your network provider would it ask you to set your Network_ID or would he tell you to set your network Id or network identifier? In the official documents it's Network_ID but what terminology would a provider use in real life when providing support to its users?
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[18:56:45] dekarl-too: knightr: i wish people had posted links to the actual lists from their providers which should carry a short text what its about at but either i'm blind or the links are not there. I know I have looked at lists of at least three countries (pdfs on some cable co's site) but can't say which urls that were
[18:57:29] dekarl-too: no links on either
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[19:11:04] dekarl-too: Ziggo NL: . . . elevisie.pdf
[19:12:14] natanojl:
[19:13:10] knightr: dekarl-too:
[19:13:25] natanojl:
[19:14:25] knightr: They have this in multiple languages. In French and in Deutsch it's translated while in Italian it isn't...
[19:15:58] dekarl-too: in dutch its translated, but referred to by dutch and english name
[19:16:10] knightr: in French "ID réseau", in Deutsch "Netzwerk-ID" and in Italian they say "Network-ID" (untranslated)
[19:16:55] dekarl-too: hmm, sounds like its mostly being translated
[19:17:35] dekarl-too: natanojl: hmm, is that a regression?
[19:19:11] dekarl-too: natanojl: can you look at a random program_association_table and look if there is a program number 0 with a pid different from 0x10?
[19:19:29] dekarl-too: but 0x11 is the service_description_table which is mandatory for dvb...
[19:19:30] knightr: dekarl-too, did you see what jpabq and peper03 proposed, what do I change it too? what you proposed or one of their propositions?
[19:19:48] dekarl-too: knightr: i like theirs.
[19:20:34] dekarl-too: I'm not a native speaker so I can mostly help with the technical stuff.
[19:21:09] knightr: "If your provider has asked you to configure a specific network identifier (Network_ID), enter it here. Leave it at -1 otherwise"?
[19:21:52] natanojl: dekarl-too: I don't think so. I think it is something else since both scan and w_scan fail as well
[19:28:11] natanojl: dekarl-too: With dvbsnoop? I'm not that familiar with this stuff...
[19:31:13] dekarl-too: knightr: sounds good. translate what is outside of the braces and leave it intact inside)
[19:31:58] dekarl-too: natanojl: hmm, if all tools fail then its likely something else
[19:32:43] stuartm: oh fook, think I've just wiped out a whole bunch of changes
[19:33:16] dekarl-too: just tune to any channel, e.g. with livetv (yeah livetv is good for something :) and run "dvbsnoop -adapter <# goes here> -n 1 0x0" with 0x0 for the PAT or 0x11 for the SDT and 0x10 (or whatever program 0 of the PAT points to) for the NIT
[19:33:24] stuartm: oh FFS
[19:34:18] dekarl-too: there are some samples of what to expect at
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[19:34:37] stuartm: hmm, maybe not ... they seem to be intact in my branch, but the cherry pick missed a whole bunch of stuff
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[19:46:40] knightr: dekarl-too, neither am I so for things like tha
[19:48:14] knightr: oops, I prefer to reverify with one whenever possible...
[20:00:49] natanojl: dekarl-too: Doesn't print anything at all :( Going to check the STB again but it's not plugged in right now
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[20:06:01] knightr: dekarl-too, . . . f005b14ce893 I added a comment to tell what Network_ID is about and will give them more info by email...
[20:07:32] xris: Captain_Murdoch: ping
[20:07:39] knightr: (to the effect of unless they have a very good reason too they should keep the English name of the identifier somewhere in their translation )
[20:08:09] MythBuild: build #33 of 0.27-freebsd-64bit is complete: Exception [6exception git] Build details are at . . . it/builds/33 blamelist: Nicolas Riendeau < >
[20:08:24] knightr: argh...
[20:08:45] knightr: permission denied, again?
[20:08:50] knightr: wagnerrp, ^
[20:22:42] dekarl: knightr: are the two spaces in front of "Leave" on purpose? ;)
[20:23:03] dekarl: cool, does this comment get picked up by the translation tools?
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[20:24:05] ** stuarta ho hums **
[20:24:17] knightr: dekarl, Spaces were not on purpose, they came from what John or Richard typed earlier... It's apparently an old typewriter habit or something...
[20:24:25] knightr: yep, it does...
[20:24:52] dekarl: ahh, that would explain why I'm seeing them every now and then but always between sentences
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[20:25:20] knightr: I will remove it, it's not needed anymore... :-)
[20:25:45] knightr: (the space)
[20:28:58] knightr: You can also use /*: for multiline comments...
[20:30:09] knightr: There's only one small bug with those, they didn't make sure they keep only one copy of each comment so if you have the same string multiple times in the source code and with the same comment they concatenate all those comments together even though it has already been extracted once...
[20:31:06] superm1: dekarl: so it is possible to do powerpc builds using a qemu sys call translation
[20:31:31] superm1: i came up with a ppc chroot and did that to come up with a patch for the FTBFS
[20:32:05] stuarta: superm1: create a ppc builder on a !ppc arch?
[20:32:18] superm1: stuarta: yup
[20:32:24] superm1: i think same can be done for armhf
[20:32:28] dekarl: superm1: so the armhf build is working now? I was wondering if I should get a wandboard quad and throw a buildbot on it
[20:32:35] stuarta: care to share? i can set that up on the build network then
[20:32:35] superm1: build takes quite a long time doing it that way
[20:33:08] superm1: dekarl: armhf working only because I turned off VAAPI. with VAAPI enable it's still failing
[20:33:21] superm1: stuarta: sure, lemme dig up the wiki page i was working from
[20:33:52] natanojl: Anyone else think #11316 should be a blocker?
[20:33:52] ** MythLogBot **
[20:34:09] stuarta: cause we used to have a ppc builder, but it got evicted because it never talked to us for a long time
[20:34:41] superm1: stuarta: so this is the page I was working from:
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[20:35:18] superm1: basically need to install qemu-user-static 1.5 (older doesn't work right)
[20:35:33] superm1: and then build a chroot
[20:35:45] stuarta: cool
[20:35:58] superm1: and binfmt_misc will handle the magic to launch the qemu static binaries for PPC when necessary then in the chroot
[20:36:22] stuarta: i'm tempted to try the full system emulation
[20:36:59] superm1: user mode emulation was already not that speedy
[20:37:38] superm1: but i think user mode might be easier to manage on a build bot too since you just need to keep a chroot in place and can execute commands around it
[20:37:44] superm1: rather than having to boot an OS and script stuff in it
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[20:38:08] stuarta: i think i'd create a new vm then, and put the chroot in that
[20:38:22] stuarta: hmmm, or maybe add it to one of the existing ones
[20:38:34] stuarta: options options
[20:38:47] superm1: what's the existing one running right now?
[20:39:51] stuarta: <-- all of mine are vm's on a f17 host
[20:40:22] superm1: oh gotcha
[20:40:26] stuarta: apart from f19–32bit, which is my old mini mac
[20:41:06] stuarta: hmmm, i need to upgrade 12.10 to 13.04
[20:41:09] superm1: adding it on the 12.04 VM one should be close trivial if you grab the newer deb for qemu from
[20:42:07] superm1: could one of you guys take a look at my patch i came up with for this PPC problem too? it's on ticket 11835
[20:42:34] stuarta: #11835
[20:42:34] ** MythLogBot **
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[20:44:03] stuarta: that should be relatively harmless
[20:44:11] stuarta: famous last words
[20:49:11] knightr: ROTFL...
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[21:34:45] knightr: Is jya on a plane or something today? (I think he mentioned something about going back to Oz soon...)
[21:36:35] stuartm: dblain: the way the CDS object is constructed in libmythupnp and then actually populated in programs/mythbackend/ makes it tricky to have multiple elements of the same type, e.g.albumArtURI can be specified more than once, one must be thumbnail size and jpeg, the other can be full res – CDSObject::SetPropValue() assumes that there will only be one instance of a property
[21:38:19] stuartm: which would you prefer, 1) moving the creation into the backend 2) moving the population into the frontend 3) altering CDSObject so that you can manage multiple properties of the same type?
[21:40:26] stuartm: I'm not entirely sure how 3) would work in this instance, you could return a list to GetProperties("string") and iterate over them, but keeping track of which is which might end up being overly complicated vs just moving the creation of the music track object into UPnpCDSMusic
[21:41:32] stuartm: err, on 2) subtitute frontend with libmythupnp
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[21:42:49] stuartm: personally I prefer option 1), it's the simplest
[21:45:00] stuartm: wouldn't even need to touch libmythupnp, just copy/paste the body of CDSObject::CreateMusicTrack() into UPnpCDSMusic::AddItem()
[21:49:29] knightr: stuartm, Hi! Where would you like that warning about VAAPI?
[21:53:00] stuartm: knightr: think for now it's best in videodisplayprofile.cpp, at the end of the line starting "VAAPI will attempt to use the graphics hardware to ..."
[21:53:39] stuartm: "REQUIRES OPENGL PAINTER"
[21:55:18] stuartm: we should think about replacing the word 'painter' for 0.28, but I can't think of a good user-friendly alternative at this moment
[22:00:39] MythBuild: build #36 of 0.27-freebsd-64bit is complete: Exception [6exception git] Build details are at . . . it/builds/36 blamelist: Nicolas Riendeau < >
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[22:02:00] knightr: stuartm, done, see: . . . 52429e27d545 Thank you!
[22:02:07] stuarta: stuartm: renderer?
[22:04:59] stuartm: not sure renderer is any less technical than painter, although maybe more accurate
[22:05:54] knightr: stuartm, I havee reenabled the translation of the setting you added for MHEG so if there is a need to backport it will be translated...
[22:06:32] knightr: I s/havee/have
[22:08:37] MythBuild: build #37 of 0.27-freebsd-64bit is complete: Exception [6exception git] Build details are at . . . it/builds/37 blamelist: Nicolas Riendeau < >
[22:08:56] stuarta: one day that'll build...
[22:09:23] knightr: I prefer renderer to painter but as you said it is still a little technical. That said, if they start playing with those settings it's somewhat expected that they are going to be terms like these that are going to be more technical...
[22:09:46] knightr: yeah, when I won't have to commit stuff and be on the blamelist... :)
[22:10:55] stuarta: don't worry, i'm going to cherry pick shortly so i'll get the blame, either that or superm1 :)
[22:11:07] superm1: heh
[22:11:10] ** superm1 hides **
[22:11:31] ** knightr is ROTFLing... **
[22:11:43] stuarta: oh yea of little faith
[22:11:45] superm1: thanks stuarta
[22:11:49] stuarta: np
[22:12:07] ** stuarta goes back to studying while waiting for the build **
[22:12:32] knightr: good reading...
[22:12:53] knightr: (and studying of course...)
[22:13:03] stuarta: i'm depressed by the ~300 pages i've still got to get through...
[22:16:10] stuartm: stuarta: is it possible to take that bsd builder offline remotely until wagnerrp has a chance to fix it?
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[22:17:16] dblain: stuartm: I wrote the upnp stack to try to keep the protocol/data structures isolated from the application component using it. I didn't want libmythupnp to need to know anything about where to get the data. That is something the user of the library would know.
[22:18:14] stuarta: stuartm: not really, it'd have to bump it from the config
[22:18:39] dblain: Option 1 would mean that the user of the library would be responsible for knowing details of the upnp protocol (what data elements belong to which class). To me that is something the upnp library should and does control.
[22:19:16] stuartm: dblain: well they already have to know that to use the resulting object
[22:19:50] stuartm: you can't populate the object from libmythupnp without knowing what properties etc it contains
[22:19:55] dblain: They just need to know what is exposed, not the details like Required attributes.
[22:20:08] stuartm: true
[22:20:51] dblain: Although I've never seen a server return multiple albumArtURI's, the spec does say it can contain multiple.
[22:20:53] stuartm: so option 3) then
[22:22:20] dblain: We already have an option that works with multiples of the same element...Resources. We should be able to model a new set of methods that work like AddResource... but used for other multi attributes.
[22:22:47] stuartm: multiple albumArtURIs is the only way to be DLNA compliant but serve up artwork to clients that doesn't look like crap – DLNA requires at least one albumArtURI to contain a thumbnail size, 160px image – for clients that display that artwork at larger sizes e.g. full screen you need to give them a second full size version
[22:25:13] dblain: The implementations I've seen use res tags with dlna:profileID="JPEG_TN" set. I'd need to re-read the spec to remember the details. (granted most servers/clients interrperate the spec differently :( )
[22:26:33] dblain: How would the client differenciate between the multiple albumArtURI's? Unlike the <res> elements, it doesn't contain anything that describes it's properties.
[22:26:34] stuartm: res tags only apply to video or photos, music must use albumArtURI
[22:27:01] stuartm: dblain: JPEG_TN specifies a thumbnail – hence TN
[22:27:50] dblain: you've obviously read the spec more recently than I have! Which version of MediaServer/CDS server are you targeting? My code was limited to 1.0 currently. (4.0 is the most recent spec)
[22:27:51] stuartm: a JPEG_LRG would be fullsize (upto a maximum of 4096px)
[22:28:04] dblain: sounds correct.
[22:28:31] dblain: The hard part is the difference between upnp & DLNA... they are different specs.
[22:28:54] stuartm: aye, and DLNA is a nightmare
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[22:29:56] stuartm: I'm going for DLNA compliance though, since that more or less guarantees compatibility with most devices that people are currently using
[22:30:15] dblain: As for which way you decide to go... I would like to keep app specific code out of the upnp library, but you are the one ultimately doing the work, so....
[22:31:22] dblain: DLNA... sounds good. I know I only added enought DLNA attributes to make the PS3 work. (all through reverse engineering). If I didn't have so much on my plate, I would love to help more, but you know how it goes.
[22:31:43] stuartm: dblain: I understand the desire to keep the library clean, it's why of the three options putting stuff into the library was the least preferred
[22:33:07] stuartm: I'll give it some thought and when I've got a patch you can signoff if you'd like
[22:34:26] dblain: I'll look at it if you want, just don't feel like you must pass it by me first. I gave up the rights to veto changes to it when I stopped working on it years ago.
[22:34:30] stuartm: I'm not going about the DNLA compliance in any organised way, just starting by supporting the stuff that I'd like to see while keeping it compliant and fixing anything obviously out of spec that I notice while I'm working on that
[22:36:27] stuartm: the albumart support I've added today is technically out of spec because of the thumbnail requirement, but it looks great on my tablet :)
[22:36:32] dblain: Any DLNA you add will only help the user experiance... my ultimate hangup with using upnp in general was the need for live transcoding and the slow FF RWD.
[22:36:43] dblain: :)
[22:37:37] knightr: stuarta, I am sure there's a way to see it positively... (kinda like the half full or half empty glass thing...)
[22:37:44] stuartm: yeah, I was reading the streaming parts of the spec, the new http streaming/transcoding stuff might come in handy when I get to that point
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[22:40:32] stuartm: the biggest PITA will be the XBox users, because it's not really DLNA compliant (despite what MS say) – it's only technically compliant because DLNA in not so many words says "this is the mininum you must support, but clients can add their own proprietary stuff on top"
[22:41:42] stuartm: it was probably MS who forced that exception into the spec, and the XBox indeed does it's own proprietary stuff that breaks compatibility with a server than only implements what is required in DLNA
[22:41:57] stuarta: no doubt it was
[22:42:48] stuartm: I need to compare against the upnp spec though, because some of what they are doing may be 'legal' in upnp
[22:45:51] MythBuild: build #38 of 0.27-freebsd-64bit is complete: Exception [6exception git] Build details are at . . . it/builds/38 blamelist: Mario Limonciello < >
[22:46:04] stuarta: \o/ not me :)
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[22:46:42] stuartm: heh
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[22:49:00] jya: stuartm: any plan to have those UPNP fixes going into 0.27 ? (to me, those are fixes after having so many peopel complaining about them)
[22:49:09] stuartm: the next thing I look at after sorting the artwork is the searching, something's not right there
[22:49:30] stuarta: right, hopefully that all builds, i'm off to bed
[22:50:27] stuartm: jya: I was considering it, but it will probabl be 0.27.1 if I do (i.e. after the release)
[22:50:56] stuartm: I don't know if any of the changes will actually break compatibility with devices that are currently working right now, so it needs some testing in master first
[22:51:21] jya: the sorting also imho needs some improvement.. I find the current sorting makes upnp pretty much useless.. impossible to find anything when you have a big library
[22:51:38] stuartm: yeah, that's also something I was going to address
[22:52:08] jya: would be nice if we avoided any database upgrade for the time being… so you can run master alongside 0.27
[22:52:19] stuartm: I've improved it slightly for music just by re-enabling some of the groupings that were commented out for some reason
[22:52:32] skd5aner: stuartm: are you looking at extending upnp/DLNA to be a renderer/client as well as a server (or whatever nomenclature they use today?
[22:53:30] stuartm: jya: that's going to be difficult, I've got multiple feature patches which include db updates and they all need to go in early this cycle to get the required feedback/testing
[22:53:56] jya: so 0.27.1 will get a database upgrade?
[22:54:30] stuartm: no, since none of those features will be backported, they will be 0.28 only
[22:55:05] stuartm: skd5aner: I'd love to, but I don't know at this stage exactly how much work that would involve and I have other things I'd like to work on for the next release besides upnp
[22:55:51] skd5aner: cool, just curious
[22:56:03] dblain: stuartm: regarding xbox... I tried unsuccessfully to use the request header to detect the client and wanted to externalize "exceptions" to the spec for each device. Never found a good way to do it.
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[22:59:56] stuartm: a core upnp/dlna compliant base class with device specific subclasses, or something along those lines, not sure if that could be made to work without a major refactoring
[23:01:21] superm1: stuarta: that freebsd failure isn't actually because of me though is it?
[23:01:48] stuartm: per-device exceptions can take a backseat to getting general compliance done, then I'd be more than happy to add support for XBox etc if people want to gift me the hardware ;)
[23:01:57] dblain: Most of the exceptions I ran into (and still see in trac) are things like specific headers, attributes, meta-types, etc. which could be handled with a device specific config file.
[23:02:04] stuartm: superm1: no, that builder is currently broken
[23:02:11] superm1: phew ok
[23:03:37] dblain: stuartm: very true... just keep in mind, anything that the user could override/configure for their devices would be one less trac ticket than if we compiled device specific changes in the code.
[23:05:08] stuartm: yeah, if it can be kept out the code then even better
[23:06:41] stuartm: knightr: thanks btw
[23:07:25] knightr: stuartm, no problem and thank you too!
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[23:45:49] stichnot (stichnot!~stichnot@mythtv/developer/stichnot) has joined #mythtv
[23:50:49] stichnot: jya, gigem: For the mythweb delays, I suspect that it has to do with scheduler interaction. Whenever mythweb makes some sort of scheduling change, I recall that it waits for a response from the scheduler so that it can display the updated page. Otherwise, if it doesn't give the scheduler a chance to complete, the user gets surprised by stale data.
[23:51:12] stichnot: I would bet that that protocol is going wrong somehow.
[23:58:58] MythBuild: build #39 of 0.27-freebsd-64bit is complete: Exception [6exception git] Build details are at . . . it/builds/39 blamelist: Jim Stichnoth < >

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