MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

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Sunday, June 30th, 2013, 00:21 UTC
[00:21:38] skd5aner: Captain_Murdoch: Lots of good (and bad) examples of how to version and introduce changes for APIs out there. Apigee has a lot of good whitepapers and presentations out there on the subject. So long as you version appropriately, then you can rewrite and add functionality pretty easily
[00:40:50] jya_: danielk221: my point was that the objects weren't created in TVRec::run() ; they are created in the GUI thread right at the beginning (but only use in the TVREC::run() thread… However, I left the creation of the channel in the GUI channel because otherwise there would be no event loop running, and so my timers wouldn't work… If we properly create the object used in TVRec::run() in that thread; we'll need to add an event loop there.
[00:42:37] jya_: toeb: my guess that it will depend on the type of playback you are using; I can expect issues with VDPAU; also the screen stack is likely created before the playback one ; so it would be displayed underneath.. I'll have a look. In any case; at this stage; it's a tad too early to try anything with the notification centre; it 's missing two core features (stacking and temporary display)
[00:49:53] jya_: wagnerrp: if you simply change set size from protected to public, does that do what you want? I'm guessing that the set size has only be defined to set the original size ; not to update the size which would required much more code and resize all the other relate items.
[00:50:52] gigem: Captain_Murdoch: In reality, the current API is still a proof of concept. Yeah, we kind of have versioning, but I don't think anything really supports it. I've said before the best way to get a truly functional API is to require the frontend to use it too. I know that won't happen overnight, but how about the following to start us on that path? Beginning with 0.28, no new or modified frontend to backend
[00:50:54] gigem: Myth protocol changes will be allowed without approval. Instead of adding to or changing the Myth protocol, those changes must use API calls.
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[01:13:37] wagnerrp: there's a number of quick solutions. i'm not sure what the proper one stuartm had in mind was though
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[01:18:51] jya_: wagnerrp: set size is a public member of MythUIType
[01:19:53] wagnerrp: i remember there were two functions, one worked but was private, the other was public but did nothing
[01:21:37] jya_: problem is that the documentation on that code is all non-existent (at least in doxygen); maybe it's documented elsewhere
[01:22:12] jya_: AdjustMinArea may actually be more what I need looking at the code
[01:23:17] jya_: looks like I'm going to have to add some methods there… stuartm did tell me that nothing was ever conceived to move object and that it should all be up to the theme to position elements...
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[01:33:33] skd5aner: gigem: that makes a lot of sense. I know I don't get a vote, but I like the thought process
[01:41:47] wagnerrp: gigem: i'd don't want to see a bunch of backend/frontend communication going over transient connections, and i'd rather not see two separate sustained connections going for backend protocol and services api
[01:42:23] wagnerrp: although i wouldn't mind seeing the services api supplanting the existing stringlist communications going over the current backend protocol
[01:43:04] wagnerrp: keep one persistant connection, either the current raw socket, or a persistent http connection
[01:43:13] wagnerrp: but have the services api drive the messages
[02:22:33] gigem: wagnerrp: It's probably not practical, though, to replace the Myth protocol with API calls in one release cycle, so both methods would need to coexist for some time. If I understand you correctly, I think I like the idea of "temporarily" running the Myth protocol over a persistent HTTP connection until it can be completely replaced with API calls.
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[02:24:41] wagnerrp: i'm not necessarily saying a persistent http connection, although that is one option
[02:24:54] wagnerrp: i would just prefer any communication between frontend and backend to occur over a persistent connection
[02:28:09] wagnerrp: well... more than just prefer
[02:28:15] wagnerrp: we _need_ a persistent connection
[02:28:25] wagnerrp: one, just so we're not opening and closing new sockets all the time
[02:28:40] wagnerrp: two, to behave as a heartbeat signal so we can tell when slave backends drop offline
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[02:58:57] skd5aner: xris: hmmmm... wonder if this impacted schedulesdirect – http://programming.oreilly.com/2013/06/irs-wa . . . -either.html
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[03:06:07] xris: skd5aner: it definitely did
[03:06:17] xris: but it's more complicated than that
[03:06:20] skd5aner: :/
[03:07:08] xris: between trying to start mythtv foundation and SD, we learned that the IRS doesn't know what to do with OSS. they're letting them sit in limbo forever. if they reject, then the projects could appeal (in court) and set precedent that the IRS isn't ready to deal with.
[03:07:55] wagnerrp: that itself sounds like something worthy of going to court over
[03:07:59] xris: SD got caught up in that but we managed to get our app pushed along (year and a half or so ago at this point) by convincing them that we don't produce software
[03:09:00] xris: there hasn't been an official announcement yet about sd (I forget if I ever sent anything to -developers) but we didn't get our 501c3 approval because "open source developers are not a charitable class"
[03:09:36] xris: we still operate as a non-profit, but won't be able to accept tax deductible donations (which we've never done, so no biggie)
[03:10:54] xris: but yeah, IRS has no idea what to do with FOSS. the SFLC lawyer we were working with for mythtv said he got the impression that they'd be re-reviewing all existing charities, too. like the apache foundation.
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[03:12:04] rkulagow: hey, all. does anyone other than danielk work on the QAM stuff?
[03:13:53] xris: rkulagow: omg you're on irc!
[03:14:46] rkulagow: xris: we must just keep on missing each other. i'm on IRC at least once a year, minimum.
[03:15:48] xris: I'm always here. just not necessarily present. IRC proxy is handy
[03:16:41] rkulagow: xris: that was just a lame-o joke attempt.
[03:17:11] xris: well, yes.  :)
[03:17:22] rkulagow: anyway, any QAM experts around? question on the frequencies that are put into dtv_multiplex
[03:17:28] xris: I'm too tired/hot so my attempt at a joking reply fizzled.
[03:17:54] rkulagow: hot? what's that? the high temp today in chicago was a balmy 67F
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[03:20:58] xris: mid/high 80s, which is toasty in an area where no one has AC
[03:35:44] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: I do not "work" on the MythTV QAM stuff, but I have spent a fair amount of time on that table in general (especially when I was using scte54scan and Comcast clear QAM). While you may be above my knowledge level, what do you want to know?
[03:40:49] rkulagow: gary_buhrmaster: i'm seeing a difference in the frequencies that are inserted into dtv_multiplex; they don't match what i'm expecting to see. according to cable freq table on wikipedia, a frequency for a particular channel should be 'x'.
[03:41:11] rkulagow: and they don't match the freq that comes up when you scan using hdhr tools
[03:42:05] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: Is the cable system using IRC or HRC frequencies?
[03:42:11] rkulagow: so i'm just trying to determine if the freqs are "fuzzy", and that if i tune to the defined freq rather than the scanned freq, will the hdhr still lock in?
[03:42:38] rkulagow: gary_buhrmaster: good question.
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[03:44:10] rkulagow: gary_buhrmaster: if i look at the output of hdhr "scan", it tells me that 571750000, qam program 15 is my standard def NBC affiliate.
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[03:44:41] rkulagow: if i look at channel and dtv_multiplex after a qam scan, i get 571778500
[03:44:44] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: IRC/HRC can some variation that can cause some difficulties, but all "modern" tuners do AFC/AFT (that is, they tune to the true frequency).
[03:46:21] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: That is because all real tuners have freq sources that are not perfectly accurate (the broadcasters do, but they spend millions of dollars on their transmitters, and I seem to recall there used to be $80 TV sets in Walmart)
[03:47:16] rkulagow: ok, so the tuning algorithm on the hardware takes the requested freq of 571750000, and then searches around until it locks?
[03:48:26] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: Those differences are well within the tolerance for any real tuner.
[03:48:45] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: Correct.
[03:51:00] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: And something like a .004% error is just laughed at.
[03:51:44] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: Remember that the channel is (in the US) 6Mhz. You are talking a difference of 27Khz (I hope I have that math right).
[03:52:11] wagnerrp: .5%
[03:52:13] wagnerrp: still marginal
[03:52:24] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: Nope, it is 270KHz.
[03:52:26] rkulagow: yeah, i saw a range of differences that were pretty negligible.
[03:53:15] rkulagow: i just wasn't sure if the differences i was seeing was due to some "magic numbers", or differences in hardware oscillators.
[03:53:17] wagnerrp: you had it right the first time, 27KHz
[03:54:39] rkulagow: thanks for the info. it will help.
[03:55:02] gary_buhrmaster: wagnerrp: Really? Google tells me .00005 which is .005%.
[03:56:01] gary_buhrmaster: wagnerrp: Do not make be break out my RPN calculator!
[03:56:26] wagnerrp: 27500/6000000 = .00458 = 0.458%
[03:56:37] gary_buhrmaster: wagnerrp: re: 27Khz. Yeah, I realized I made a mistake correcting my mistake.
[03:57:47] gary_buhrmaster: wagnerrp: Ah, yes, it is the 6Mhz channel error. In any case, no really tuner cares (well, I mean there are ones that do, but not TV ones).
[04:04:50] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: I am not familiar enough with the channel scanner to know what adjustments it is doing to fill in the tables. I do remember it did not do a good job for me 6–8 years ago, and I have not tried it since.
[04:05:56] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: I know some work has been done on it in the interim.
[04:07:14] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: At this point, personally, I am using a OCUR device, so it has become moot for me (and without motivation, I tend to ignore things).
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[04:10:34] rkulagow: gary_buhrmaster: i'm trying to get rid of the scanner, or at least make it smarter. the manual process of correlating xmltvid's using eyeballs after a qamscan always sucked. the new json format i've got over at schedulesdirect includes qam tuning information and station data.
[04:16:46] gigem: wagnerrp: Slave connections are backend to backend which I wasn't addressing. I suppose those too could be done with a services like API, though. Anyway, the main point I was trying to make is that until we eat our own dog food, the services API will continue to be neglected.
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[04:21:14] gary_buhrmaster: rkulagow: That will be goodness. I remember setting everything up by hand a long time ago. It was painful (and I seem to recall a made more than one dyslectic transcription error along the way).
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[04:39:18] gary_buhrmaster: gigem: I will point out that when I had dogs they ate better than I did most of the time..
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[05:03:42] gary_buhrmaster: wagnerrp: re: going to court. Unless you know a lawyer (admitted to practice in federal court) who does pro-bono work, it could get quite expensive to take it there. That is what the (IRS in particular) feds have in their favor, it is expensive to challenge their (even lack of) decisions.
[05:06:04] gary_buhrmaster: wagnerrp: And while I know (too many?) lawyers, none of them are going to take such cases pro bono. They have mouths to fed too.
[05:07:53] gary_buhrmaster: wagnerrp: Of course, if you have the "balls" to do it, you just declare yourself a non-profit, file accordingly, and let the IRS sue you if they disagree. If you have a good law firm behind you, you can get away with it.
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[09:31:45] jya_: gigem: totally agree with you on that last point.. don't see much the point to a permanent connection, it can so easily be addressed differently anyway
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[10:01:13] natanojl: jya_: Did you try SetPosition instead of SetArea?
[10:01:28] jya_: natanojl: i did. and it did the trick...
[10:05:03] natanojl: jya_: Great
[10:05:57] jya_: working on it now… adding timers
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[13:02:11] danielk221: gary_buhrmaster: SD Did declare itself as a non-profit and file that way. But that only gets you to something like a 501(c)4 status. (i.e. like a chess club).
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[13:03:28] danielk221: An official 501(c)3 gets a couple additional federal benefits, but more importantly corporations and foundations are willing and able to help a 501(c)3. This means pro-bono legal work, grants to get something worthwhile done, etc.
[13:05:27] danielk221: I am not connected to SD as anything other than a member these days, so I don't know the current inner workings.
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[13:11:14] jya_: danielk221: how do I use the Q_OBJECT macro for a private class declared within a .cpp ?
[13:11:42] jya_: it seems to only generate the mock for the main class with a .h
[13:12:53] jya_: when I add the Q_OBJECT macro, I get an error about a missing vtable
[13:18:29] jya_: do I have to declare a separate header file? I see that for mythmainwindow, there's a mythmainwindow_internal.h
[13:23:50] danielk221: Usually I just use a separate header file, but you can also tell moc to look at a cpp in the .pro file.
[13:25:22] jya_: oh you can?
[13:25:28] jya_: i created a _private.h file
[13:27:14] jya_: I like the idea of telling mod better
[13:27:17] jya_: the moc
[13:27:39] danielk221: X_private.h X_internal.h is the usual thing to do, but yeah as long as you run moc against a file it will generate the needed stuff, so you can add some lines to the .pro to look at a .cpp, I don't have the recipe on-hand however.
[13:28:37] jya_: ok… I do the usual thing then :)
[13:28:52] danielk221: I think X_private.h is good, it can make it easier to write unit tests and anyone using that publicly is forewarned.
[13:31:37] jya_: ahhhh… that works much better… I was wondering why my notification never disappeared when they lapsed… turned out, the Q_OBJECT thing never got enabled
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[13:42:51] danielk221: gigem: Shouldn't we increment the DVR version number for 8916cd7f6bf255a4325ede834b5e3d6e555b2338 ? So a service user knows when they can depend on this behaviour?
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[14:46:37] jya_: maybe someone know (as stuartm is away)… which screen stack should I used so my notification would appear during TV playback?
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[14:57:24] stichnot: jya_: just a guess, but in TV::Init() – MythScreenStack *mainStack = GetMythMainWindow()->GetMainStack(); myWindow = new TvPlayWindow(mainStack, "Playback");
[14:58:04] jya_: stichnot: yeah, i tried adding myself to GetMythMainWindow()->GetMainStack(); but still, window only appears when i exit plyback
[14:59:26] jya_: oh well, look into it tomorrow.. off to be
[14:59:28] jya_: d
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[15:08:39] stichnot: neufeld: in case you're interested, I found that in ccextractor, it's not the output that's being buffered, but rather it's stalling for 30s at a time on input. In particular, the second call to read() in buffered_read_opt() – at least in 0.64
[15:20:45] gigem: danielk221: Perhaps for master. I'm not sure about fixes. I wanted to get feedback on the other issues (filtering only Deleted and removing GetFilteredRecorded()) before updating version numbers, but no one commented on those yet.
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[15:31:37] natanojl: jya_: stichnot: I don't know why, but TV playback doesn't use any screen stack.
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[21:33:03] tgm4883: What is the issue with having multiple versions of libmyth installed?
[21:33:53] tgm4883: My understanding is that in theory it should be OK and that we shouldn't remove an old version of libmyth on upgrade
[21:34:02] tgm4883: but it would seem that is causing issues for users
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[21:50:03] wagnerrp: major releases are all appended with the version, so it should not be an issue
[21:54:19] tgm4883: wagnerrp, I keep getting reports that it is an issue though with multiple versions of libmyth installed
[21:54:51] stichnot: tgm4883: is it absolutely libmyth, or could it possibly be older versions of plugins?
[21:55:15] tgm4883: stichnot, IDK, I've not tried to reproduce it yet
[21:55:23] tgm4883: but i've heard these issues over the years
[21:56:18] stichnot: I have definitely had this problem in development at least twice. It causes strange behavior such as playback always failing, or mythfrontend crashing on startup. It becomes fixed when I remove the lib directory and reinstall.
[21:56:33] stichnot: Next time I'll try removing one by one and see if I can find a culprit and a fix.
[21:57:41] stichnot: sphery: (if you read this) For the Themed Menus stuff, for the 0.27 release, my plan is to call this a "beta feature" and the action names will be subject to deprecation / change for the following release. Also, there's more work I want to do to simplify the programming use of it before making more menus themable.
[21:58:43] peper03: stichnot: As and when you have chance, could you try http://pastebin.com/7K93Vq3t with the DVDs you said had started giving problems? I noticed one of my DVDs with a bookmark at a specific place seemed to cause the same issues as reported on the -users mailing list. As I don't know whether he'll get back to me, it would be good to know if you happen to be experiencing the same issue.
[22:00:22] peper03: If you happen to have a DVD that is having issues regardless of whether a bookmark is set, and this fixes it, it might be easier to get it in upstream.
[22:00:53] peper03: TBH, it shouldn't really be related to whether a bookmark is set or not.
[22:03:03] stichnot: peper03: that fixed it! :)
[22:03:11] stichnot: let me try others with that problem
[22:05:32] stichnot: peper03: the kids thank you for getting back Toy Story and Beauty and the Beast. :)
[22:06:07] peper03: stichnot: Always nice to have happy kids :)
[22:07:05] peper03: stichnot: Could you try reverting it again, just to make sure it's really only that?
[22:11:10] peper03: The problem is that when we try to reset the VM, without that patch, one field is not reset. It could well be DVD dependent but my image works fine if I play from the beginning. I don't think the bookmark is set until after we've reset the image so I don't really understand why I don't see the problem all the time, but it certainly seems to be an error.
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[22:42:29] stichnot: peper03: sorry, I was away. I'll try right now
[22:43:09] stichnot: though I did verify that Toy Story was broken before trying the patch, and I didn't start playing from a bookmark
[22:44:44] stichnot: ok, they both failed to start without the patch, one from the beginning and one from the bookmark,
[23:16:17] jya_: natanojl: so any idea on how to draw on top of tv playback? need to look at what the osd is doing...
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[23:44:30] jya_: hum…. the OSD has little to do with mythui :( it doesn't draw anything using the mythui stuff; all done manually, the hard way ...
[23:51:50] jya_: not sure I'll ever be able to display my notifications there without intrusive changes ...
[23:57:45] skd5aner: jya_: yay! intrusive changes welcome ;)

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