MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

Current users (74):

alan`_, aloril, amessina, Anssi, Beirdo_, brfransen, Chutt, clever, coling, Cougar, danielk22, danielk221, dblain, dekarl, ElmerFudd, fetzerch, ghoti_, Gibby_, gregL, GreyFoxx, HeXiLeD, IReboot, J-e-f-f-A, jamesd_, jams, jarle, jarryd, jhall_, jheizer__, joe_____, joki, jpabq, jpabq_, jpharvey, jst, jwhite, kc, Kevin`, knightr_, kormoc, kurre2, kwmonroe, laga, len, mrand1, MythBuild, MythLogBot, neufeld, NightMonkey, Peitolm, Peps, petefunk, poptix, purserj, rsiebert, Seeker`_, seld_, Sharky-Sleep, skd5aner, sl1ce_2g, SmallR2002_, sphery, sraue, superm1, taylorr, tgm4883, toeb, tonsofpcs, tris, unforgiven512, wahrhaft_, wolfgang1, XDS2010, _charly_
Monday, March 25th, 2013, 00:01 UTC
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[06:20:30] dekarl: sphery_: I'm with you that the proper fix is upstream at guide creation. But there is no category_type or subtitle in DVB-EIT (leaving aside one-off fixups) which still is the guide source with the biggest market share :(
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[08:12:55] jya: Hi.
[08:13:18] jya: Being Monday, I'd like to merge the ffmpeg branch back in… this will give the week to track down any potential issues...
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[11:15:44] sphery: dekarl: Yeah, I just don't like the idea of having users change guide data like category/category_type because then someone will ask, "Well, why can't I change it in program listings, too?" and it will seem confusing to have 2 separate ways to create categories. I'm OK with changing title/subtitle/description after recording, because those may not reflect what's actually recorded (after cutting or with manual recording rules for which the user ...
[11:15:50] sphery: ... didn't provide good values). So, I'd like to encourage use of our user-specified category (currently recgroup, eventually tags) for user organization of stuff. FWIW, category/category_type are basically the TV equivalent of video genre, which Video Library doesn't let users change (they instead change videometadata.category, which is the equivalent of recorded.recgroup).
[11:17:09] sphery: Filtering on recorded.category or category_type is fine, but it's probably better to encourage users to rely on user-specifiable categorization (recgroup/tags)--especially if category/category_type aren't reliable enough for the purpose--rather than expecting them to manually edit provided-by-guide data.
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[15:34:35] gigem: jya: No objection from me.
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[15:35:30] gigem: dekarl: I fully agree with sphery on the category issue.
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[15:43:12] sphery: dekarl: and, FWIW, I'm hoping to make time to do some more work on MythTV as soon as I finish up my current project--which will be this month, sometime. I really want tag support, so may bump that to the top of my "big project" TODO list.
[15:53:57] stichnot: danielk22: from a discussion in the mythtv-users list, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/540749 . mythccextractor when extracting DVB image subs, creates each image filename as a combination of the subtitle sequence number, the start time, and the end time. The start and end times are based on the pts (I think) rather than being relative to the start of the recording. ...
[15:53:59] stichnot: ...Which approach is right?
[15:54:57] stichnot: I don't know if there are any players that would actually display extracted subtitles this way, so maybe this is new ground...
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[15:55:39] stichnot: actually the basis is the initial pts times 1000.
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[19:03:11] dekarl1: gigem: sphery: shall we rename the field that says "this is a movie" vs. "this is an episode of a series"? imho it has nothing to do with the category and the name is misleading. Otoh I'm happy to leave it as is until we have tags and can add a tag "is a movie/episode/etc" that gets initialized from category_type but is editable.
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[20:03:25] kormoc: Is anyone here with a 0.25 install of myth web?
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[20:10:55] kormoc: Whoops! ERROR: Permission to MythTV/mythweb.git denied to kormoc.
[20:16:20] xris: Beirdo_: ^^^
[20:17:41] xris: oh he can't ssh at the moment. stuarta/stuartm ^^
[20:18:57] stuartm: give me a minute while I google 'gitolite permissions' :)
[20:19:46] stuartm: kormoc: did you change your key recently or something?
[20:19:52] kormoc: Nope
[20:20:12] kormoc: I've cloned from the repos so reading works fine, just can't write to mythweb.git or mythtv.git
[20:24:27] gigem: dekarl: Yes, program type (or some such) would be a better name than category_type. Are you suggesting to rename the item in the database schema or the code? We've generally refrained from doing the former, but the latter has been done on multiple occasions. You bring up another good question thouogh. What happens to the metadata we already have for recordings? Does some or all of get converted to tags?
[20:24:29] gigem: Or are tags supposed to be only for user supplied things?
[20:25:52] stuartm: kormoc: which repo do you clone?
[20:26:19] stuartm: you're on the access list for the code.mythtv.org repo, but no-one has commit access to the github mirror
[20:26:50] kormoc: oh shoot
[20:27:01] stuartm: :P
[20:27:37] kormoc: and that did the trick
[20:27:39] stuartm: glad it was something simple
[20:27:41] kormoc: sorry! :)
[20:28:24] sphery: gigem: initial tags will just be user-specified literal values... we can consider allowing users to get "dynamic" values for them (i.e. from listings or whatever), but they should /not/ replace the actual metadata
[20:28:39] stuartm: forced me to actually find out where the gitolite config lives, so that's good :)
[20:28:48] sphery: so we won't be moving any recorded fields (other than recgroup) to tags
[20:30:01] stuartm: not that I'm on the admin list for gitolite atm
[20:33:40] xris: hahah
[20:33:46] xris: kormoc: sorry I didn't notice that url
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[21:08:44] kormoc: wagnerrp, Re #9642, should we just remove the channel editor entirely in myth web and iframe the backend one or not even bother?
[21:08:44] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9642 **
[21:11:57] gigem: sphery: Okay. IIRC, though, there was some talk of replacing the Deleted recgroup with tag functionality. That is of very keen interest to me right now. I setup MythTV for some family memebers and showed them how to use recgroups as a poor replacement for multi-user support. I'm really hoping your tags will solve the "multiple users own this recording/file" case.
[21:17:14] stuartm: kormoc: didn't we start storing the aspect ratio in the database so mythweb doesn't need to calculate it from the raw data?
[21:18:27] stuartm: and if we didn't get around to it, we probably should
[21:19:20] kormoc: I'm out of the loop. It's entirely possible that's the case
[21:20:29] stuartm: I'm in the loop, I just can't remember :)
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[21:24:04] stichnot: gigem: would the Deleted recgroup be equivalent to a recording with no tags?
[21:34:36] stuartm: personally I'd try to avoid the creation of 'special' tags for states like 'deleted', those should really be a separate set of flags, that way it's easier to keep the UI for editing flags etc simple without a whole bunch of 'exceptions' and translation complications
[21:38:33] stuartm: we currently have such complications with the recgroup code (and elsewhere), it's just much better to keep complete segregation between what is used internally (aspect ratio, deleted status, category_type, watched flag) and metadata that is user-editable
[21:39:48] stuartm: that's not to say we can't set a 'Widescreen' tag at the same time as setting the 'widescreen' videoprop flag, but if the user removes the 'Widescreen' tag it shouldn't affect the videoprop value
[21:39:50] sphery: gigem: yeah, since I'll be replacing recgroup, I'll rework the Deleted recgroup... I'll try to keep in mind multi-user deletes when doing so
[21:41:02] sphery: and now that I've read stuartm's comments, it may need a rework above and beyond tags
[21:42:42] dekarl: stuartm, that sounds similar to what I was thinking when I suggested to copy "category_type" to a user editable tag. (next to the title and subtitle tags?)
[21:43:16] dekarl: the user might want to set the "widescreen" tag to 2.35 while it really is a 16:9 frame
[21:44:09] stuartm: dekarl: yeah pretty much
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[21:47:15] sphery: dekarl: IIRC, category_type came about because it's provided by Schedules Direct, then code made use of it, then EIT and XMLTV started making best guesses for it so that the "supports SD users" code would work for them, too
[21:47:29] gigem: stichnot: There's probably many ways to do it, but I doubt no tags equals deleted. Anyway, here's one way off the top of my head. Ownership of a recording/file is denoted by tags like "owner:homer" and "owner:marge" and former ownership is denoted by a tag like "deleted:bart". The recording becomes a candidate for real deletion when there are no more "owner:*" tags and a user can "undelete" a recording if
[21:47:31] gigem: they have a corresponding "deleted:*" tag.
[21:47:48] sphery: I really don't want users editing that, but creating their own tags for it
[21:47:55] stuartm: it's worth bearing in mind that it's generally preferable (and faster) to internally represent some things by the use of integer values tied to an enum, it avoids a whole slew of bugs caused by the need to translate strings for display, or simple spelling mistakes in the code (a mis-typed enum value would cause compilation to fail), and it makes changes to the display value easier (witness the havoc caused now by someone changing their hostname)
[21:48:30] sphery: stuartm: what ever happened to your skeleton for multi-user support?
[21:48:54] sphery: getting that in would make it much easier to do a proper/non-hackish multi-user delete implementation
[21:50:06] sphery: I know it was just the basics (maybe even just user/role tables and some authentication dialog or something), but we if we had the basics, we could add support piece by piece on a "my itch" basis :)
[21:50:31] stuartm: sphery: um, think I lost work when I last upgraded my distro, wasn't backed up ... but it was simple enough to recreate as it really was just a skeleton
[21:51:04] stuartm: sphery: I'll see what I can piece together over the next few nights
[21:52:23] sphery: that would be nice... I know a lot of users have multi-user interests, but without even a skeleton it's hard to point them in a good direction for starting on any patches
[21:52:27] sphery: and thanks
[21:52:34] dekarl: sphery: yes, many of the guide data related details are derived from TMS data. I never understood what a tvshow is, but episode/generic episode/movie/sport event are universal concepts. (which sadly are not part of DVB-EIT, but that would be to easy :)
[21:52:38] stuartm: I also want to start conversion from hostname to host id, I'm planning that it should be done step by step rather than 'all at once', so first a hosts table, then conversion of settings to use it, a UI to edit the hostname etc
[21:53:23] dekarl: Reverse engineering the guide details to create a guide that "just works with mythtv" wasn't always fun
[21:54:27] stuartm: dekarl: from my perspective, the only items in that group of four which actually make sense are 'movie' and 'sport', everything else seems implied by the absence of those or the presence of other metadata (seriesid etc)
[21:55:28] dekarl: stuartm, there is no seriesid :) (unless you have nice guide data from schedules direct or radio times)
[21:55:35] sphery: stuartm: as far as hostname goes, I'd be happy with the current if we just changed the name "hostname" to anything else--such as "profile" or whatever
[21:55:56] sphery: going beyond that would just be icing
[21:56:00] stuartm: I'd be tempted to re-engineer category_type, switch to an enum (no surprise there) and see how it can actually be used productively in the UI e.g. "Record this episode" should be "Record this film" when 'movie' is set
[21:56:31] sphery: (but I really don't want to use hostname... just because the value isn't necessarily related to, nor tied to, any given host)
[21:56:56] stuartm: dekarl: if there's no seriesid then there's no way of knowing to set the category_type to 'series' so it's moot :)
[21:57:31] sphery: stuartm: perhaps re-engineering category_type could be done as part of the conversion to use tv_grab_na_dd (which I still owe you some testing and work on)
[21:58:07] sphery: actually, it could easily be done before, but just reminding myself of the XMLTV for all non-EIT users idea :)
[21:58:43] stuartm: sphery: I also started on a simple patch to force the use of the 'Localhostname' setting, that would have immediate benefits for everyone, it would be transparent to the end-user but would prevent most of the breakage we see now
[21:59:02] sphery: stuartm: as long as you change the name to something else, I'd be all for that
[21:59:09] sphery: ProfileName or whatever
[21:59:24] stuartm: the switch to a category_id is more about simplification of code, efficiency and space savings
[21:59:49] sphery: (and I'd love to be able to just select a profile name at startup or have it suggest one, if profile name isn't specified)
[22:00:14] stuartm: sphery: I'd given up hope of persuading everyone that tv_grab_na_dd was the way forward :)
[22:01:07] sphery: hehe, then maybe it's good that I've been so bad about keeping up with MythTV for the last year--I haven't yet given that up :)
[22:01:37] stuartm: sphery: the intent was to pre-populate 'ProfileName'/'LocalHostName' using the system hostname, but I'm all for a better system which would automatically prevent conflicts with existing hosts (that's another reason for the hosts table)
[22:02:33] stuartm: anyway, talking about it isn't getting it done :) I'll start on something tomorrow for the multi-user stuff
[22:03:15] sphery: hehe, yeah, sorry for the distraction, but thanks for the info on it... and I'm looking forward to at least having a skeleton for the multi-user--even if it's completely unused for now
[22:10:10] dekarl: stuartm: a random example, we know its a series if we get an episode title https://github.com/NonameTV/nonametv/blob/mas . . . _util.pm#L81 but you're right, enough distraction for tonight
[22:58:24] skd5aner: kormoc: I used the channel editor in mythweb all the time (well, when I need a channel editor). As long as there's an equivalent, I wouldn't care but it's VERY handy to me
[23:03:23] skd5aner: s/used/use
[23:07:48] wagnerrp: kormoc: depends on whether we want to go through with migrating mythweb to the master backend
[23:08:04] wagnerrp: or have mythweb be a separate application that uses the services api
[23:08:17] wagnerrp: either way, i wouldn't bother with 9642
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