MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

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aloril, Anssi, anykey_, Beirdo, brfransen, Captain_Murdoch, cesman, Chutt, clever, coling, Cougar, dblain, dekarl, ElmerFudd, fetzerch, foobum, ghoti, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, IReboot, J-e-f-f-A, jams, jarle, jarryd, jheizer, joe___, joki, jpabq, jpabq_, jpharvey, jst, jwhite, kc, Kevin`, knightr, kslater, kurre2, kwmonroe, laga, Merlin83b, monkeypet, mrand, MythBuild, MythLogBot, neufeld_AFK, Peitolm, Peps, petefunk, poptix, purserj, rhpot1991, rsiebert_, Seeker`, seld_, Sharky112065, skd5aner, SmallR2002, sphery, sraue, stuartm, superm1, sutula, tgm4883, Tobbe5178, tonsofpcs, tris, Vernon_at_work_, wagnerrp, waynemcdougall, wolfgang1, xavierh_, XDS2010_, xris, zombor, zoran119, _charly_
Monday, December 31st, 2012, 00:00 UTC
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[00:52:19] skd5aner: stuartm: I've seen th issue with dvds skipping forward instead of back recently, but only on a smaller percentage of the few DVD's I've watched recently
[00:52:57] skd5aner: and that was on 0.26-fixes, not master
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[01:27:43] xris: adding some new stuff to the rpm tools. mythffprobe, mythffserver.. what should they be grouped with?
[01:28:14] xris: oh, and mythhdhomerun_config
[01:29:01] xris: though I guess that should go with the backend.
[01:29:08] xris: are the others part of mythffmpeg?
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[12:31:29] stichnot: It looks like none of the perl, php, or python bindings do anything with the seektable. Is that right?
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[12:56:21] sphery: stichnot: sorry it took so long to respond (was traveling for the holiday and haven't seen you on since I got back), and I'm not sure if you got your answers, but 1 0 FFWDSTICKY is supposed to go to 10min before the end of the recording (to allow checking if you got the whole show and such, without having to do the math--I'm at 23min in and the show was supposed to be 1hr and I had a 15min record late and I need to go to about 10min before the ...
[12:56:27] sphery: ... end of the recording...)
[12:57:35] sphery: stichnot: also, yes, IsNearEnd() is used to see if we're at the end of the recording for the prompt, but also for things like automatically marking as watched and for setting bookmark... We (I?) want/need to rewrite the prompt handling to use the approach like Mark S mentioned at http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6974#comment:4
[12:58:39] sphery: IsNearEnd() is remarkably imprecise (especially on some file types, like many AVIs) and may result in users missing the last 30s or couple minutes of a video if they've enabled the end-of-playback prompt
[12:59:31] stichnot: sphery: thanks, I did get the FFWDSTICKY info in the end.
[12:59:42] sphery: that's why we want a "wait until the end to display the prompt" approach, instead... requires a bit more work than current, but would be much better
[13:00:28] sphery: glad you found that--I was afraid I was holding you up... I still have to catch up on my commits and such, so I wasn't sure
[13:01:51] stichnot: yeah, it wasn't obvious (to me) from the code what was supposed to be happening, and I couldn't tell if my patch was respecting it or maybe I had inadvertently broken it ages ago...
[13:02:06] stichnot: anyway, that's a cool feature, glad I learned it :)
[13:03:04] stichnot: I think I get the IsNearEnd issues now, and maybe I'll take a crack at fixing it in a bit.
[13:03:24] sphery: hehe, yeah, it came from me describing the various ways to jump around in the show and mentioning that it only gets hard when you have to do the math--then bjm decided to add that so the math wasn't necessary :
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[13:04:02] sphery: and, yeah, that would be great if you want to take the IsNearEnd() stuff... I'm not very comfortable changing around the player and you have much more experience with it than I
[13:04:52] sphery: feel free to grab #6974 (assuming you can--or just do it :)
[13:04:52] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6974 **
[13:05:38] stichnot: sure. Missing that last 2 seconds is a continual annoyance — when I edit a program, I have to be careful to add 2 seconds to the end to avoid playback truncation
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[13:07:03] sphery: hehe, and after you fix it, you'll have to go back and re-edit all your programs ;)
[13:07:56] stichnot: ok, I just adopted that red-headed stepchild :)
[13:08:48] sphery: thanks (and looking forward to seeing how you've changed the frame count stuff--something that we've needed for a long time)
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[13:13:24] stichnot: I plan to commit the timestamp map stuff tonight after I get home from vacation and can verify the map updates for in-progress recordings. It's a 2600-line patch so it's going to need some more eyes on it. :)
[13:18:51] stichnot: sphery: it seems that the undo/redo stack for the cutlist editor (my code from a long time ago) is mostly but not completely broken. Have you noticed that?
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[13:38:51] sphery: no, I haven't played with it for a while. I hope to get a chance to spend some time on MythTV, soon, so I may be able to take a look at it
[13:41:45] stichnot: stuartm, skd5aner: I wonder if the inaccurate DVD skipping might be a regression from this fix: https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/4b0803be0
[13:54:05] sphery: stuartm: also, I'm guessing you didn't see this, but might be interested in it: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/533428#533428
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[14:49:52] sphery: stichnot: Wow, Mark S is very responsive--he must have seen your grabbing #6974.  :)
[14:49:52] ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6974 **
[14:50:20] sphery: (he updated his play to end patch)
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[15:02:24] stichnot: sphery: yeah, that's very nice.
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[15:57:54] stuartm: sphery: I hadn't seen that before, but Mark is wrong in this case
[15:58:58] stuartm: sphery: the code in question caused more problems that it really fixed and it was the wrong approach, I've just committed a much better fix written by peper03
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[16:04:11] stuartm: the fact is that we get into trouble if we start ignoring the DVD navigation and second-guessing which title, or chapters we should and shouldn't be playing
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[16:17:35] stuartm: we might be able to re-add the chapter menu population since the leak in libdvdnav is in theory fixed
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[16:45:20] gigem: sphery: It's not a big deal, but the jump N minutes forward, backward, from beginning and from end was my work, hot bjm's. Also, the inital jump forward/backward idea was stolen from ReplayTV.
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[16:49:39] kslater: If I have 2 capture cards pulling a feed from the same source set box, do I need 2 sources? For example, I have a DirecTV receiver and I generally feed that into an HD-PVR for HD recording. But when that's not working (like now), I'd like to fall back to recording from an PVR-250 over S-Video (I'll take the quality hit, but would like to still get the shows recorded).
[16:49:52] kslater: So both of those should have the same schedule information
[16:51:06] kslater: but do I need to define DirecTV1 and DirecTV2 as listing sources? And is Myth smart about handling that so I don't end up with duplicated listings in the database?
[16:52:46] kslater: oops. Just realized, that mythtv is the dev channel (if I only had a brain). Sorry guys. Taking this over to mythtv-users where it belongs.
[16:52:50] sphery: gigem: Ah, yeah, I forgot you wrote that--I just remembered bjm emailed me off list about it after I sent http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/144952#144952 . In the on-list reply, Bruce told me about the seek to absolute position part (which made it much easier--as long as I knew how long the recording was), then you wrote the seek to X minutes from end stuff, and Bruce told me about it off list, so I misremembered it as him ...
[16:52:56] sphery: ... writing it.
[16:53:34] sphery: stuartm: sounds good. I trust your judgement (and remembered you were doing some work on that stuff), but thought you might like to see it just in case it has something useful for current code.
[16:57:44] stuartm: that code was trying to get around certain forms of copy protection by identifying the longest title and assuming that it was the main title, not only doesn't that work for series DVDs which feature multiple valid titles, even more recent discs feature bogus titles longer than the main title
[17:00:06] stuartm: of course hardware DVD players don't operate that way, they just play the DVD from the beginning, and the DVD nav packets tell the player where to go, so that's what we now do, we don't try to guess anything, we follow the path laid out by the DVD itself
[17:01:13] sphery: ah, yeah, that sounds very broken (plus I hate the idea of trying to work around copy protection--it's a losing battle unless that's your primary goal/focus)
[17:01:26] stuartm: it may mean you sitting through some ident/anti-piracy notices but that's a small price to pay to have DVDs playing correctly
[17:03:54] stuartm: DVD navigation is like a maze, if you ignore the directions you are given or start any place except the beginning you will end up at a dead end :)
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[17:05:05] kslater: stuartm: does that also apply to pulling the DVD onto the MythTV box? I lost my son's Toy Story 3 DVD to the bottom of someone's foot. Cracked in half.
[17:05:40] kslater: Making it a point to have a digital copy to work with rather than using the physical media.
[17:06:46] stuartm: kslater: yes and no, in theory a DVD ripping application which followed the nav packets could rip any disc, but none that I know of work this way, maybe because it's too slow (you could only rip in real time)
[17:07:32] kslater: stuartm: I'd take that over the current hassle of trying to figure out which entry to rip..
[17:07:45] kslater: seems like it's gone up a notch in difficulty lately.
[17:07:56] stuartm: instead they employ complicated algorithms and rules to try and determine which parts/titles of the disc to copy, several even use lists of DVDs to know what they should do
[17:08:52] stuartm: the main problem with a DVD ripping app following the nav packets is that it requires some level of user interaction, e.g. to select items from the menu
[17:11:43] stuartm: anyway peper03 gets all the credit for actually doing the work, I had been saying that the guess the title stuff was broken for months but he was the one who actually put in the effort
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[17:32:15] twitchnln: greetings, can someone point me towards an easy to understand howto on setting up EIT crawling, or better yet does anyone know if comcast sends EIT data?
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[17:34:29] wagnerrp: no, no digital cable providers in the US provide EIT data
[17:34:50] wagnerrp: all guide data is transmitted out-of-band to their cable boxes
[17:34:54] wagnerrp: we don't have access to that data
[17:35:10] wagnerrp: also, this is the development channel. user support is #mythtv-users
[17:36:52] twitchnln: right on, i could have sworn that i typed the -users on there, but its been a long night....
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[18:47:42] peper03: stuartm: What's your opinion on Mark's comment that the whole DVD stuff should be ripped out and rewritten? In spite of how much I've learnt about this area of Myth, I'm still don't think I understand the overall architecture well enough to say, at the moment. There are definitely plenty more things to be sorted out but I couldn't really say whether I think it *really* requires a rewrite.
[18:49:32] peper03: I've certainly got some question marks in some areas as to why the code was implemented in that way, and whether it's the best way of handling the given problem or just a solution crow-bared into the the given framework.
[18:51:41] peper03: Still frames seem a bit like that. There's a problem there that I started to look at and will continue as soon as I get chance. Particularly still frames with audio. They're handled completely differently. I'm not entirely sure how xbmc handles them but I've not found any specific code. It seems to handle them generically, which is usually the best way.
[18:52:27] stuartm: peper03: I think I've seen enough big projects fail due to lack of time or a loss of interest that I wouldn't encourage a complete re-write
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[18:53:49] stuartm: everyone loves re-factoring, but it's not always the most productive use of time and almost invariably it fixes some bugs at the cost of introducing all new ones
[18:54:40] stuartm: incremental improvements are safer
[18:55:23] stuartm: I'd like to see more and more DVD specific code moved into the DVD classes and out of avf/ringbuffer/player base classes
[18:59:02] peper03: stuartm: Yes, I certainly wouldn't have the confidence at the moment to start a re-write. And that's ignoring the time commitment, that I probably couldn't make. My intention at the moment is just to make what changes I can until I/we hit a brick wall. At the moment, I can't see the brick wall but they tend to creep up on you when you least expect them :)
[18:59:15] peper03: stuartm: Thanks for the commits, by the way!
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