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Thursday, December 13th, 2012, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:05] knightr: s/everywher/everywhere
[00:00:47] danielk22: knightr: You're right about the context being stripped. I'm not sure why it is difficult to call where it is needed?
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[00:07:35] knightr: I don't remember exactly in which screen I wanted to use it in but I was unable to satisfiy all the requirements for using it... I think the code I needed to modify was another library which diid/does not already depend on libmyth.
[00:09:54] knightr: The other thing I don't quite understand is why it's written like it's initializing something that needs to be intialized once to be used later, wouldn't having some methods that would have been called when we needed to lookup the translation for those group names have worked?
[00:11:45] jya_: danielk22: the CFLAGS difference between the two config.mak (master vs devel/resync) is that it contains two extra : -Werror=implicit-function-declaration -Werror=missing-prototypes
[00:13:33] jya_: could that explain the error about error: ‘time_t’ was not declared in this scope ?
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[00:52:24] knightr: danielk22, BTW, unfortunately the context is QObject on those strings (some which I gradually want to get rid of0, the only difference is in the disambiguation string/old-style comment and even that is not identical for all the strings in each group.What I had more in mind for that more like having one method per group we want to get the translation for.
[00:54:06] knightr: The disambguation string *can* be part of the lookup (it's not currently as you saw) but it looks more like it was used like and old-style Qt comment (it's no longer the right way to comment nowadays...)
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[00:59:17] skd5aner: can anyone around test the sample I provided to the box account associated with #11234 – I'd like to delete the recording if someone can confirm the sample exhibits the same behavior as described in the ticket
[00:59:17] ** MythLogBot **
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[01:07:35] stichnot: skd5aner: I see the failure to play, but mplayer and vlc also fail on it
[01:08:41] skd5aner: stichnot: I tried it in something and it played, can't remember what it was... it wasn't mplayer, I know that much
[01:09:17] skd5aner: let me give it a go here
[01:12:01] stichnot: key messages, I think, being:
[01:12:07] stichnot: 2012-12–12 17:11:12.395900 E AFD: avformat err(-1) on avformat_open_input call.
[01:12:09] stichnot: 2012-12–12 17:11:12.395924 E Couldn't open decoder for: /home/stichnot/Videos/videos/cctest/11234.mpg
[01:12:11] stichnot: 2012-12–12 17:11:12.395946 E Player(0): Unable to open video file.
[01:12:13] stichnot: 2012-12–12 17:11:32.397966 E playCtx: StartPlaying() Failed to start player
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[01:13:57] stichnot: skd5aner: about to go offline for an hour, but I'll read logs
[01:14:58] skd5aner: stichnot: fyi, this was from a QAM recording, so can't blame the HD-PVR this time... should just be a straight forward mpeg2 file
[01:15:21] stichnot: cool, you can blame your cable company :)
[01:15:49] skd5aner: yay – more reasons to hate them!
[01:16:09] skd5aner: stichnot: oh, yea... it plays back in Windows Media Player, of all places
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[01:18:06] skd5aner: does not play back in VLC for windows... debug console shows
[01:18:16] skd5aner: libdvbpsi error (PSI decoder): TS discontinuity (received 9, expected 0) for PID
[01:18:16] skd5aner: 0
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[01:18:51] skd5aner: anyway – thanks for checking... shocking the WMP can play something back that mythtv, mplayer, and vlc can't handle... usually it's the opposite
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[01:26:13] jya_: skd5aner: have you tried with the latest ffmpeg? (and ffplay)
[01:27:38] skd5aner: jya: nope, I've avoided dealing with ffmpeg ever since myth decided to provide "mythffmpeg"
[01:28:38] skd5aner: I have a feeling this one might just be a corner case – where the file is just abnormally corrupted. I think I've seen it twice ever, but deleted the first one I had and haven't seen any new cases in the last 4 weeks
[01:28:56] skd5aner: I just found it odd that at least one other player could play it back fine
[01:42:55] danielk22: knightr: I think you are right about it being an old style Qt comment and not a context.
[01:44:57] danielk22: As for the initialization, it was just easier to do it all at once. For context you could either just add a 'context' param to i18n, or create separate translation functions, or even create separate classes so you don't use the QObject::tr().
[01:46:45] danielk22: If you don't use the QObject::tr() though it means the class holding the translations must be in header since it will be QObject derived, which means it can't be as closely tied to ProgramInfo as it is now, being in the same cpp. But if there is a need for these translations in libmythbase or libmythui as you mentioned that could be a good thing.
[01:47:58] danielk22: Anyway. The main thing is the i18n() function takes a QString and translates it and keeps all the translations for it in in one place.
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[01:53:27] danielk22: jya: I don't believe the -Werror explains the Linux one because there aren't any warnings about this in the master. Don't know off hand about the BSD one.
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[02:31:56] danielk22: jya_: <-- should fix the linux complaint. Untested.
[02:33:35] jya_: danielk22: that's a rather drastic change for what is probably just a missing header somewhere
[02:35:47] danielk22: time_t never should have been exposed there. The quick'n'dirty fix is to just include sys/time.h header, but it isn't a good fix.
[02:36:49] jya_: fair enough...
[02:39:40] danielk22: jya_: I think wagnerrp is going to need to look at the mytharchivehelper problem. It looks like it is actually system headers that can't find a bunch of time API related things, but they should be including whatever headers they need themselves. As far as I can tell our code is ok.
[02:39:54] dblain: wagnerrp; Currently the Service API has no way to specify required parameters... it could be added if truely needed. I always assumed the method would check for valid parameters and return an error if needed.
[02:40:23] jya_: danielk22: now i'm even more confused on why the buildbot is failing then
[02:40:30] jya_: when it works for master
[02:41:17] wagnerrp: tgm4883: ^^^
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[02:46:05] danielk22: It looks like this FreeBSD machine is using gcc 4.2, which was released over 5 years ago...
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[02:46:41] jya_: danielk22: in bool BaseRequestHandler::HandleQueryUptime(SocketHandler *sock), does int64_t uptime = get_uptime(); should be: int64_t uptime = getUptime() ?
[02:47:27] danielk22: no, i renamed the function so the compiler would catch any places i missed replacing.
[02:47:44] jya_: ok… then I get other type of errors
[02:48:48] jya_:
[02:49:26] jya_: looks like it's just a matter of deleting the system myth library..
[02:50:10] danielk22: hmm, we shouldn't be linking with the system myth library.. there is a problem with the link path somewhere..
[02:50:40] danielk22: All our internal paths should be listed before system paths on the link line to prevent this type of problem..
[02:50:44] jya_: i've always had this issue on the mac, that's why the build script normally delete the libmyth* first
[02:51:54] danielk22: jya_: It is possible we need to do something different on the mac. With ldd it looks for libraries from left to right among the -L's
[02:54:18] danielk22: jya_: . . . n1/ld.1.html Looks like to get the desired behavior we'd need to remove the system paths with -Z and then re-add them later with -L
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[03:32:41] danielk22: jya: It actually looks like time_t should be properly defined in C++ code if we use "#include <ctime>" In that case we should revert that patch I wrote and just include ctime...
[03:33:05] danielk22: This could be used to fix compilation of mythsystem.h as well.
[03:35:35] danielk22: On posix systems time_t should be either a int64_t or int32_t and on non-posix systems it must be a type supporting arithmatic operations (+,-,/,*)
[03:36:47] danielk22: In the microsoft compiler it is __int64 unless you define a special macro that makes it __int32
[03:39:14] tgm4883: wagnerrp, dblain ok, good to know
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[04:21:50] bsilvereagle: Does anyone know if Steven Toth is still working on the HVR2250? Specifically IR support.
[04:27:34] bsilvereagle: or if there is a good method for picking it up I guess.
[04:57:57] dekarl: tgm4883: superm1: do we still package README-freefont-20120503.txt into mythtv-common and mythtv-doc? I'm updating to freshly built master packages and getting that error.
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[05:43:26] jya: wagnerrp: are you there?
[05:44:55] wagnerrp: yeah
[05:45:09] wagnerrp: something about the helper binary for mytharchive?
[05:45:22] jya: how did you guess ? :_)
[05:45:33] wagnerrp: saw mention of it a couple hours back
[05:45:39] wagnerrp: along with my name
[05:45:44] jya: this is driving me nuts.. Could I log on one of this machine and find out what's going on ?
[05:45:59] jya: makes no sense to me… those are system headers failing
[05:46:29] wagnerrp: do what?
[05:47:42] jya: . . . s/logs/stdio
[05:47:48] wagnerrp: oh, you want that build jail set up again?
[05:48:05] wagnerrp: yeah, give me a few minutes
[05:48:12] wagnerrp: i nuked the old one, so i'll have to set up a new one
[05:49:19] jya: great thank you… sorry for the hassle
[05:49:58] wagnerrp: can't guarantee you'll be able to log on
[05:50:07] wagnerrp: ISP did something funky with my internet earlier today
[05:50:14] wagnerrp: still can't seem to manage to get my mail server back online
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[07:50:35] jya: jeeezzzzz.....
[07:50:38] jya: found the problem.
[07:50:46] jya: ffmpeg has added a time.h
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[07:51:27] jya: mythhelper set the -I to $PREFIX/include/mythtv/libavformat, so any header include time.h from the libavfomat one and that mess everything up
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[09:39:02] MythBuild: build #5 of ffmpeg-freebsd-64bit is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at . . . bit/builds/5
[09:51:50] MythBuild: build #5 of ffmpeg-linux-64bit is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at . . . bit/builds/5
[09:52:55] MythBuild: build #5 of ffmpeg-linux-64bit-clang is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at . . . ang/builds/5
[10:01:56] MythBuild: build #5 of ffmpeg-linux-64bit-icc is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at . . . icc/builds/5
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[10:22:57] jya: clap clap clap
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[10:23:19] jya: 2 to go
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[12:25:11] jya: stuartm: are you there?
[12:36:38] jya: do we have to open the codec for every video streams in the file, even though we are only going to select one stream? can't we just fully ignore them ?
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[12:57:05] stuartm: no, that's what my patch did, stopped it from initialising every codec
[12:57:51] jya: I had rewritten all that part… hold a sec… let me copy it here
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[12:59:23] jya: now I get errors during playback, about a codec not being initialised, like "AFD: No codec for stream index 2, type(Video) id(MJPEG:8)"
[12:59:42] jya: in AvFormatDecoder::GetFrame, I reads a packet, and tries to process it, no matter which stream first.
[12:59:59] jya: if it's the selected stream, then it will also try to display it.
[13:00:31] jya: actually my bad...
[13:00:41] stuartm: hmm, it should need to do that, I was unaware that it even tried to
[13:00:45] stuartm: shouldn't
[13:00:56] jya: looking at the code: if it's not the selected stream, it just ignores it
[13:01:00] jya: ok...
[13:01:07] jya: then my code is good then...
[13:01:51] stuartm: if (pkt->stream_index != selectedTrack[kTrackTypeVideo].av_stream_index)
[13:02:11] stuartm: that should prevent decoding of anything except the selected stream
[13:03:29] stuartm: there's no good reason for decoding all video streams simultaneously, danielk22 mentioned something about mheg utilising that behaviour but it's the first I've heard of it and I've never seen it in the wild
[13:04:09] stuartm: there is a very good reason for decoding multiple audio streams – that's something I want to implement in the future
[13:04:37] danielk22: stuartm: I don't think we support decoding multiple video streams in avformatdecoder.
[13:05:02] danielk22: We support switching between which video stream to decode.
[13:05:41] danielk22: But only for MHEG.
[13:07:44] jya: danielk22: is MHEG is video stream or a data one ?
[13:07:48] danielk22: data
[13:08:07] jya: ok, so the code we're talking about here is not applicable
[13:08:28] danielk22: I don't think so.
[13:09:14] danielk22: But it is possible we trick ffmpeg into changing the data to video.. I don't recall the mechanics of how it worked.
[13:10:20] danielk22: We need to collect samples of all the crazy stuff out in the wild for regression testing.
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[13:10:28] stuartm: pretty sure it's unaffected and unrelated to the code we're modifying
[13:11:25] danielk22: Yeah, I think so too.
[13:11:45] jya: danielk22: stuartm : ok here is my take on it
[13:11:45] jya:
[13:12:11] danielk22: stuartm: How much is mheg used in the UK?
[13:12:47] jya: what I do is scan all the streams at once. for audio and subtitle, the code is opened for every stream like it used to be… for video streams, I only do that once we've parsed all the streams
[13:13:16] jya: then I search for the best video streams, select it, and only open the codec and init the video output for that stream, and only that one
[13:13:44] jya: the streams that aren't selected, aren't even added to the list of "tracks"
[13:14:13] danielk22: jya: I think that works better in concept. But this patch isn't very readable wrt to seeing what changed.
[13:14:41] danielk22: Is it indentation changes or ordering that doesn't allow diff to show just the changes?
[13:14:43] jya: ok… i basically only moved the existing code, to be done only outside of the loop
[13:15:06] jya: and do so after selecting which video stream to use
[13:15:26] jya: oh, and another thing is that I don't interrupt the scan if a stream is found to not be handled, I just ignore it
[13:16:13] jya: the patch is really just two blocks… what is removed, and what is added. Both really are identical, just shifted down
[13:16:48] jya: and then I simplified the code in regards to opening the codec, because it was common code in a few place
[13:17:40] jya: all i can say, is that it works. including the trailers I played with that contains a MJPEG stream that confused myth yesterday
[13:18:55] jya: the differece with stuartm approach, is that it doesn't stop after the first video stream, it reads them all, and select the "best" one (that is according to ffmpeg utility functions)
[13:19:00] danielk22: jya: Commit it to the ffmpeg branch when you are happy with it and I'll do a careful review there. Sounds good.
[13:20:06] jya: what shits me, is that the bug I'm really after and that lead me to look into the whole thing, isn't even fixed. For some reasons, some videos don't play via Storage Group since my last june ffmpeg resync
[13:20:19] jya: it works on all my other machine, but my mac mini
[13:20:20] stuartm: danielk22: heh, it's widely used by broadcasters, especially the BBC and increasingly so, the BBC have just launched a new service using MHEG – . . . dbutton.html
[13:20:44] jya: stuartm: do you have a stream I could test? and how do I select the various mheg bit ?
[13:21:33] jya: the BBC is so much in advance compare to everyone else really
[13:21:33] stuartm: whether it's actually used much on a daily basis by viewers I don't know, I imagine it gets used for weather and stuff like lottery results, possibly during major sporting events to switch between events/angles
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[13:22:15] jya: stuartm: so when you select a program in the menu, where does it get it from?
[13:22:36] stuartm: jya: yeah I can provide some stuff, F2 is default bound to Red (red button is most often used to access the MHEG service be it a menu or otherwise)
[13:23:12] stuartm: jya: it retunes usually to another channel, but this latest stuff is backed by http – so it starts streaming
[13:23:23] jya: interesting
[13:23:45] stuartm: we support iplayer via MHEG in master
[13:23:52] ** jya thinking of Oz "HD" channels at 8Mbit/s MPEG2 **
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[13:27:43] jya: whenever I use myavtest now, I get a segfault at the end of playback in "void MythUIType::SetChildNeedsRedraw(MythUIType *child)"
[13:28:13] jya: sounds like a race somewhere, the line where it crash is " if (m_DirtyRegion.isEmpty())"
[13:28:17] jya: line 334
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[13:28:49] jya:
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[13:32:35] stuartm: I'll provide samples tonight, for now here are a few screenshots – – See BBC MHEG 1 – 6
[13:33:52] stuartm: for the iplayer stuff the images are pulled in over http, everywhere else they are in the stream
[13:35:09] MythBuild: build #7 of ffmpeg-f17–32bit is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at . . . bit/builds/7
[13:38:43] jya: glop glop ! :) finally
[13:38:56] jya: danielk22: I've pushed my changes
[13:40:43] jya: should have done the commit differently, so it can easily be packported to 0.26
[13:41:02] jya: going to clean up the branch, removing all my nasty trials and attempt at fixing the builds
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[13:51:13] MythBuild: build #7 of ffmpeg-debian-wheezy-64bit is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at . . . bit/builds/7
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[14:13:26] Seeker`: stuartm: Was the bug that was causing segfaults on freesat when interactive TV was enabled ever fixed?
[14:23:33] stichnot: sphery: what do you want to do about so-called bug #11251 ?
[14:23:33] ** MythLogBot **
[14:26:56] stuartm: Seeker`: I'm not sure, I could never reproduce so even if a potential fix had gone in I'd have no way of knowing whether it worked
[14:27:14] Seeker`: stuartm: ah, ok. I'll update to head and try turning it back on again
[14:27:32] Seeker`: (unless head is horrifically broken at the moment? )
[14:28:31] stuartm: << So no, no fix referenced in the ticket at least
[14:30:00] Seeker`: stuartm: anything I'll be able to to to help debug it?
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[14:33:14] stuartm: Seeker`: another backtrace would help, the one in the ticket is missing a lot of information (no mythtv symbols)
[14:33:16] stichnot: Beirdo: #11289 which of course has no logs – is it possible the signal handlers are blocking a clean exit?
[14:33:16] ** MythLogBot **
[14:33:32] Seeker`: stuartm: I'll try and get that done tonight then
[14:34:02] Seeker`: my better half spends quite a bit of time watching / listening to iplayer, so having it on the TV = lots of brownie points
[14:35:44] stuartm: logs with -v mheg too, or at least the tail end of that log before the segfault
[14:36:13] stichnot: stuartm: #11210 any idea what could cause the message "MythPainter::GetImageFromTextLayout: Invalid canvas." ?
[14:36:13] ** MythLogBot **
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[14:37:10] stuartm: stichnot: bad theme most likely, defining an invalid area for a textedit widget
[14:37:35] stuartm: invalid meaning <= 0
[14:38:23] stuartm: we should probably catch that when parsing though
[14:38:46] stuartm: it would help to know which theme and which screen in particular is causing the warning to be displayed
[14:39:19] stuartm: ah, pbb, so we just need to know the theme
[14:40:46] stichnot: I'm assuming (hoping) that the repeated restart of "Build background buttonlist item 0" messages just means he's exiting and re-entering the pbb
[14:41:53] sphery: stichnot: I've been thinking of marking it "works as designed, but in the future we may add additional user-configurability" sound good?
[14:43:30] stichnot: sphery: that sound good to me.
[14:43:45] bsilvereagle: Did these patches make it into a stable branch?
[14:43:51] sphery: (having a task ticket reminding me of my planned changes for key bindings would actually be more detrimental than beneficial--would make it seem like work, rather than something I want to do :)
[14:44:05] stichnot: stuartm: thanks, I'll start the triage
[14:46:36] sphery: bsilvereagle: not those patches, but some different patches such that it generally does what users want, but only for specifically-handled-in-code cases (like the guide jump point)
[14:49:00] bsilvereagle: sphery: I'm hitting guide on my remote and not getting that effect. So idk what's up. Is there a specifc code lirc should be throwing other than "s" ?
[14:49:07] stichnot: stuartm: unlikely to have a textedit widget in the pbb. Would that apply for textarea widgets?
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[14:49:44] sphery: bsilvereagle: try #mythtv-users for help with use, please
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[14:50:02] bsilvereagle: thought it was worth a shot in here, thanks sphery
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[15:00:36] ** jya off to bed **
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[15:12:59] peper03: stichnot, stuartm: Just quickly, regarding #11210: I'm pretty sure I've seen those errors in my logs. I'm using the Mythbuntu theme.
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[15:30:18] stichnot: peper03: (if you see this) Do you get the same huge multitude of warnings on the Watch Recordings screen?
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[15:59:17] danielk22: wagnerrp: Is V4L2 used on freebsd? A number of remaining compiler warnings are in the linux/videodev2.h include. I'm surprised that is even being used and available on FreeBSD.
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[16:10:05] wagnerrp: danielk22: seems they come from...
[16:28:37] danielk22: thanks, so "Hans Petter Selasky <hselasky AT>" would probably be the guy ping
[16:28:57] danielk22: wagnerrp: doo you know anything about all those sys/timeb.h warnings ?
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[16:33:50] peper03: stichnot: Yes. Seems like each repaint (i.e. each navigational move) causes the message to be output several (~10) times.
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[16:38:30] wagnerrp: danielk22: looks like most of it can just be dropped
[16:38:52] wagnerrp: ftime() and timeb are only used in libmythdvdnav and libmythfreemheg
[16:39:27] danielk22: also libmythfreemheg/Programs.cpp
[16:39:47] wagnerrp: yes...
[16:39:53] danielk22: err, also in dvdnav_internal.h you already mentioned freemheg :)
[16:39:59] wagnerrp: yes...
[16:40:10] wagnerrp: (i mentioned both)
[16:40:38] danielk22: Anyway, does freebsd have gettimeofday() ?
[16:40:56] wagnerrp: probably in sys/time.h
[16:41:03] wagnerrp: timeb.h is pretty much empty
[16:41:49] wagnerrp: this is the entire contents...
[16:43:01] wagnerrp: /usr/include/sys/time.h:355:int gettimeofday(struct timeval *, struct timezone *);
[16:43:16] danielk22: I think we can just only include timeb.h if we don't have time.h.. The only functional change is the mheg code will need to try gettimeofday first instead of second.
[16:49:07] tgm4883: dekarl, IDK why that would be in both packages
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[17:28:12] dekarl: tgm4883: doh
[17:29:06] dekarl: I still have the patch to put them into some package in my local tree :/
[17:31:25] tgm4883: dekarl, superm1 is taking a look
[17:32:38] superm1: doh indeed
[17:32:49] dekarl: it was an unpushed local change... sorry for wasing your time. No I just have the "get-build-deps is no more" patch in my local tree
[17:33:13] superm1: dekarl: i dont have my SSH key to commit to packaging handy unfortunately, for now can you just push a pull request on packaging and have someone else with commit rights commit?
[17:33:20] dekarl: I simply forgot to drop the local patch when you commited a different solution :/
[17:33:40] superm1: oh ook :)
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[18:47:49] stichnot: stuartm: the mythbuntu theme's recordings-ui.xml has two odd constructs: <area>0,0,0,0</area> and <area>0,0,0,31</area>. Is this at all sensible?
[18:59:40] stichnot: this appears to be causing the #11210 problem so I will close it as an upstream bug
[18:59:40] ** MythLogBot **
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[19:43:59] stuartm: stichnot: if you read the log, no that's not sensible and will definitely cause those warnings
[19:50:07] superm1: tgm4883: where are theme bugs ending up for the theme ^
[19:50:18] superm1: just to make sure that isn't going to get lost entirely
[20:00:06] tgm4883: superm1, LP
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[20:05:25] stichnot: stuartm: thanks.
[20:07:44] stuartm: we could/should catch that when parsing, throw a less cryptic warning and hide those widgets to avoid QT warnings later
[20:09:39] stichnot: agreed, though I would still classify this as "upstream bug"
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[20:17:21] stichnot: tgm4883: I closed #11210 as a Mythbuntu theme bug. That involves you, right?
[20:17:21] ** MythLogBot **
[20:17:39] tgm4883: stichnot, did you open a LP bug?
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[20:24:14] stichnot: tgm4883: no, I thought it would be better for a regular user of the theme to file a bug
[20:35:48] sphery: gigem: do we want "this channel" in there? Why not just "Record only this showing", "Record all showings" and "Record with options"?
[20:36:42] stuartm: gigem: here in the UK the selection is along the lines of "Record (this program)" and "Record Series"
[20:36:44] sphery: at least now--when we have channel recording rules tied to the callsign of the channel with the stored-in-rule recordingid, channel rules cause problems when the users rescan and get new chanids, so I'd prefer we don't make them seem the right choice until we change the record table to store the actual callsign value (and not the channel id) being used for matching "this channel" rules (which is something I'd like to do, eventually)
[20:37:38] gigem: sphery: I forgot to ask which option between kAllRecord and kChannelRecord should be offered.
[20:39:14] stuartm: sphery: even callsign is problematic, we get occasional rebrands of channels here in the UK, same content but different name
[20:40:05] stuartm: it's much better than chanid which is not remotely stable
[20:40:45] gigem: chanid hasn't been used in at least 9 years.
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[20:41:29] stuartm: really? heh, as long as I've been a dev people have been saying it was keyed off the chanid
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[20:42:02] gigem: Nope. The channel.callsign (aka record.station) is used.
[20:42:04] stuartm: I never thought to double check
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[20:43:39] stuartm: I've only ever used channel recordings as a poor man's repeat filter or to prevent recording of a programme with the same name shown elsewhere (this wouldn't be a problem if we keyed off series id instead of title)
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[20:44:55] gigem: We could just bite the bullet and offer both channel and all options. That would mean 4 options in the new dialog. I wouldn't want any more than that, though. The problem I have with the all instead of channel option, is that channel is the correct choice most of the time here in the states.
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[20:46:26] stuartm: four is fine, it's pretty much what I'd consider to be the limit – beyond that it defeats the point of having a quick/simple menu
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[20:47:34] stuartm: and it fits in well with my flexible key idea which would be limited to four keys (ostensibly to fit with the Red/Green/Blue/Yellow context keys used in the UK)
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[20:58:17] stuartm: the only thing holding me back on that is that I know, without a shadow of doubt, that there will be dozens of differing opinions on which actions get assigned in each context, this will eventually lead to it being made configurable and yet more configuration screens
[21:06:43] stichnot: stuartm: flexible key idea?
[21:12:34] stuartm: stichnot: maybe better that I don't explain it at length, as anyone here can tell you I have no shortage of ideas but only a few of them ever get done :)
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[21:15:57] stichnot: stuartm: it piqued my interest because of #10581 which allows user-defined "hot keys" but only in the Playback OSD
[21:15:57] ** MythLogBot **
[21:18:39] stuartm: stichnot: ok, basic idea is to have four global keys which perform different actions in each screen, an on-screen key indicates what they do, this is a very familiar concept here in the UK going back to the dawn of Teletext 20+ years ago –
[21:20:20] stuartm: I'd ultimately combine it with a theme for UK users using the colour keys which we're all so familiar with, obviously those keys aren't available on many remotes in the US
[21:46:06] stichnot: stuartm: Interesting. Also complementary to 10581 since a user is unlikely to want a color key showing during playback
[21:48:26] sphery_: stuartm / gigem: (I got lost in the netsplit) yeah, I'd like to eventually change the record table to store the callsign value rather than the chanid used to find the chanid.callsign, and if we do that, we could also add a notification in Manage Rules screen (or, eventually, when we get the generic notification mechanism... ;) that tells you if a callsign is no longer valid (i.e. after you rescan, none of your channels have the stored ...
[21:48:32] sphery_: ... callsign), so you can go in and select the new callsign in the recording rule (from a button list of available callsigns) and/or edit your channels to put the callsigns back to your prefered values
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[21:51:27] sphery: stuartm: also, your 4-key idea fits well with my plan for extension of the key bindings to support "inheritance" so to speak--where, rather than saying, "use key P", you can say, "inherit keylist from Global/FLEXKEY1", which would allow you to set suggested defaults and then users to remap
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[21:52:40] sphery: I see it as allowing me to do things like unroll our key overloading--where chanup/chandown are currently hard-coded to do something other than change channels in recording playback (because you're not in Live TV), but the user can't change it to do something else they use more often
[21:52:53] gigem: sphery: Methinks you misunderstand. The chanid stored in record is not user for anything, AFAIK. The "callsign" is already saved directly in record as record.station. Having a way simply change a no longer valid callsign/station would be nice. It can already be done, though in a round about way — change the rules to kAllRecord so it matches a showing on the new channel, edit the rule through that showing
[21:52:55] gigem: and then change the rule back ti kChannelRecord.
[21:56:11] stichnot: sphery: does your plan combine key bindings and menu customization, or are those separate?
[21:56:13] sphery: yeah, that's the approach that I've recommended people use to update them (though I tell them the "change it back to a channel rule" part is optional :). I didn't realize that we were already using station, though--so that's nice.
[21:57:00] sphery: stichnot: just key bindings for now... I see menu customization as something done through menu themes (and fully believe OSD menu should also be themed :)
[21:58:43] stichnot: I think either themed OSD menus or my "hot menu" customization could come very close to making the mythical 5-button remote usable.
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[22:00:09] sphery: yeah, agreed
[22:04:27] jpabq_: gigem: I would consider a "find one" option, as long as that also set the "this episode" flag.
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[22:09:22] stuartm: fwiw I think 'Find one' should replace 'This Showing' but as jpabq_ suggests, it should restrict it to that exact episode
[22:10:02] gigem: jpabq_: Hey, someone else uses that nice little option! That's probably not common enough of a case to merit being on the "simple" dialog. That might be suitable for the context-sensitive menu, though.
[22:10:05] stuartm: e.g. options become "Record this episode", "Record this series" etc
[22:11:48] gigem: stuartm: Hmm, that might work. "Record this episode" if it's not generic and "Record this showing" if it is.
[22:12:55] gigem: Of course, probably not everyone has generics marked.
[22:15:06] stuartm: gigem: well there are other distinguishing characteristics of what is or isn't generic, the presence of a subtitle or a series id
[22:17:14] stuartm: but if we can pull it off, having it switch like that would be very neat and in keeping with the intent of this feature
[22:17:24] gigem: If you have that information, your grabber should be setting program.generic, then. That's what the ScheduleDirect grabber does.
[22:17:38] stuartm: gigem: it might do, I'd have to check on that
[22:18:36] stuartm: anything marked as a movie (film) would show "Record this movie" or simply "Record this" I guess, since it's neither generic nor an episode
[22:20:34] gigem: Program? Specials and possibly some other things besides Movies/Films would fall into that category.
[22:22:39] Chutt: simplifying the recording options?
[22:26:30] gigem: Chutt: Kind of. I made a change recently to reduce the number of applicable rule types. This discussion is adding a dialog menu with only the most basic and common options when a new rules is being created instead of going straight to the rule editor. It would be similar to how a dialog is brought when you press SELECT on a program that is already scheduled.
[22:29:17] Chutt: that stuff's overcomplicated and due for an overhaul, so, cool =)
[22:31:07] gigem: Yeah. That's why I'm trying to do it. The trick is to not lose any significant functionality. So far, I've been successful.
[22:32:18] Chutt: have you looked at how, say, wmc presents its recording options?
[22:33:01] stuartm: Chutt: we've looked at how various DVR operate, though I've personally never played with wmc
[22:34:43] Chutt: since i've had to use it because of silly copy-once rules :(
[22:35:34] Chutt: but they do a good job of presenting things very simply, yet still have enough customizability that i haven't had issues
[22:36:04] gigem: I looked a little over a year ago. Feature wise, it was pretty equivalent to TiVo. For simplicity, I kind of like my Mom's FIOS DVR. It' perhaps not quite as featureful as WMC/TiVo, but it close and it's pretty simple to use. That's what I'm shooting for, but again, without the loss of power that still sets MythTV apart, IMHO.
[22:37:18] taylorr: Chutt: you mean you use WMC now?
[22:37:29] Chutt: yeah, since i want to record stuff in hd
[22:38:31] gigem: Is FIOS available in your area? Generally, everything except the premium movie channels are copy-freely.
[22:38:35] Chutt: nope
[22:38:43] taylorr: Chutt: gotta love TWC :)
[22:38:51] Chutt: it's twc or broadcast
[22:39:22] gigem: I've got some un-unsed HD-PVRs you can buy! :)
[22:39:35] Chutt: heh
[22:39:39] gigem: s/un-unsed/no longer used/
[22:39:46] Chutt: 3x cable box rentals would be crazy expensive compared to one cablecard
[22:39:57] taylorr: I've read threads where a local TWC agreed to relax the copy flags until corporate found out and told them no
[22:40:20] Chutt: my local office didn't know what a cablecard was earlier in the year
[22:40:28] Chutt: so i don't think they'll understand 'copy flags' =)
[22:40:39] taylorr: I switched to directv with 2x HD boxes... only $6/month for the extra box
[22:41:19] Chutt: i'm just dumping cable once my bundle pricing runs out, anyway
[22:41:54] taylorr: good decision... I don't like cable operators at all... directv has been a pleasure to deal with so far
[22:43:04] Chutt: that said – wmc does a decent amount of ui things pretty nicely
[22:44:09] taylorr: does it still require XBOXs for remote frontends?
[22:44:19] Chutt: there's a new one out from ceton
[22:44:38] Chutt: but you only need the extender if you're wanting to watch copy-once stuff, iirc
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[22:46:30] dekarl: Ohhh, can someone write up how all this program attributes go together? whats "generic episode", what is "type=special" what is "original air date" or "previously shown". I have some thought/fixes for cleaning up the series/movie mess for DVB countries and would like to clean up other wrong fixups while there. (e.g. fixing "repeat" as in "not the first showing in the last 48 hours" to not set the original air date, etc.)
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[22:54:22] gigem: dekarl: You might find some good info relating to ScheduleDirect if you search the mailing list archive for "bjm" and "DataDirect".
[23:04:57] taylorr: gigem: sorry I never got back to you on the duration/position issue from a long time back... sounds like stichnot might take it further than I was planning
[23:05:44] taylorr: do you still have channels with the changing frame rates?
[23:10:59] dekarl: gigem, thanks. Looking at the messages reveals to many details I'd rather not know :) (like programid not being a unique key without partnumber :/
[23:11:19] gigem: taylorr: Yes, any 720p channel that allows the cable provider to insert commercials has rate changes.
[23:12:07] gigem: dekarl: :) and yw.
[23:17:10] stichnot: taylorr, gigem: yeah, the idea of fixing time display for position/duration/seeking, based on a precomputed markup, has me fired up at the moment
[23:19:45] stichnot: the nice thing is that it won't affect playback, avsync, etc. at all, so I can test locally with manually inserted markup and make sure duration/position looks suitably wacky, before moving to the next step of getting the recorder and mythcommflag to generate the markup
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