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Friday, December 7th, 2012, 00:00 UTC
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[00:05:22] danielk22: peper03: That may work, if you make a patch and test I'll review it.
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[00:24:07] tonsofpcs: so does 'live' buffer a full max-GOP or ?? (I notice that it always shows a second or two behind...)
[00:25:46] ** tonsofpcs wonders what danielk22 means about AFD and the decoder not caring about presentation... AFD is a descriptor that's all about presentation... **
[00:27:59] wagnerrp: it's forced a couple seconds behind to ensure there are no filesystem irregularities
[00:28:08] wagnerrp: such as a remote NFS share that hasn't caught up yet
[00:30:09] tonsofpcs: ah, so any 'live' watching is actually recording and playing back? it is never really a direct stream?
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[00:34:30] wagnerrp: correct
[00:34:58] wagnerrp: the backend records to disk, and then either the frontend opens it up separately to play it, or the backend opens it up separately to stream it
[00:35:09] wagnerrp: capture and playback are separate
[00:37:20] danielk22: tonsofpcs: I thought you were talking about the avformatdecoder not the AFD descriptor.
[00:37:34] danielk22: Do we even pass through the AFD descriptor?
[00:38:48] tonsofpcs: oh
[00:39:35] tonsofpcs: danielk22: wouldn't that be AVFD? (I have no idea what you do with AFD, the only local station here that embeds AFD is only on an HD channel and my display is 4:3)
[00:40:04] tonsofpcs: (I imagine that the MPEG-embedded AFD would be carried through the recordings unless you do some special 'straining' of content)
[00:41:17] danielk22: tonsofpcs: Sure carried it is in the MPEG, but I don't think we pass it along to the videooutput classes for use...
[00:41:56] tonsofpcs: oh, no idea there. Not sure even what display hardware anyone would be using that could carry it (does mythtv support anything with ASI, UDP, or SDI outputs?)
[00:43:46] danielk22: tonsofpcs: You would use it + the bar data to properly present material that letterboxed in some way.
[00:46:26] tonsofpcs: well, there isn't always bar data (in fact, I've never seen any valid AFD with bar data [I've seen AFD marked as bad with bar data, I've seen malformed AFD with bar data])
[00:46:36] danielk22: For instance, I record 'The Daily Show' in 4:3 but it is letterboxed 16:9 content, and then I watch it on my 16:9 TV and it ends up double letterboxed. But the AFD data tells the TV what the active area is so MythTV could be smart enough to autozoom based on that info.
[00:46:54] danielk22: tonsofpcs: NBC sends out good data. Dunno about the others.
[00:47:37] tonsofpcs: right, but there are few SD channels that have AFD in the wild afaik. We send it out on our HD but don't for our two SD channels.
[00:48:04] tonsofpcs: danielk22: good AFD, yes, but with bar data? bar data is for when the 'standard' codes can't adequately describe the active frame
[00:48:38] danielk22: tonsofpcs: Actually dunno about bar data, the AFD's are there though.
[00:48:43] tonsofpcs: 16:9/14:9/4:3 centered, boxed, or 'safe' as well as 16:9 'top' (and one other I can't remember) are the 'standard' codes
[00:49:11] tonsofpcs: (and 'full frame')
[00:49:34] danielk22: Ideally the 16:9 -> 4:3 converters at CableVision will set the bar data for me, but I haven't checked if there is really good data.
[00:50:11] tonsofpcs: . . . Ax5QWbP7Va3w – page 8 and page 10 show the standard codes (that don't have bar data)
[00:50:20] tonsofpcs: @G*@!*@%(*$^ google link sntealing
[00:50:43] tonsofpcs: . . . O1_Final.pdf
[00:51:45] danielk22: Stuff like the early new Dr. Who needs the bar data though. It was in some wacky in-between ratio.
[00:52:17] danielk22: 14:9
[00:52:24] tonsofpcs: 14:9 doesn't need bar data.
[00:52:30] danielk22: really?
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[00:52:45] tonsofpcs: 1011.
[00:53:28] danielk22: :) Learn something new every day.
[00:53:40] tonsofpcs: 14:9 is the 'standard' BBC compromise image format. We actually set our downconverter (for our analog air) to do a 14:9 cut on anything that lacked AFD for about a year as it provided a great compromise. Never tore too much off the sides of full frame content but didn't add so much black to annoy viewers :)
[00:54:53] tonsofpcs: 0010 and 0011 in a 4:3 frame are formats that I've never seen in the wild (flagged or otherwise), I'm guessing they're from telecine use?
[00:55:18] tonsofpcs: (16:9 or 14:9 'top of frame' boxed instead of 'center of frame' boxed)
[00:57:27] tonsofpcs: troubleshooting AFD inside MXF is a PITA when all you have is a hex editor, btw :)
[00:58:30] danielk22: MXF is a PITA. But we're getting of topic.
[01:00:37] ** tonsofpcs stops discussing and goes back to watching mythtv :) **
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[01:11:01] Mousey: ...and on that note..
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[01:35:14] PatrickDickey: Hi everyone. Where would I go to submit a feature suggestion. I'm not sure if it's a theme one or an actual mythtv frontend one though. What I'd like to see is a menu option in the Media Library (Recorded TV Shows), where you can mark an entire group of shows as watched. What I mean is where you have "All Programs" and each program listed, you could right click on one of those, and mark them all as watched.
[01:36:03] jpabq: PatrickDickey: I answered you in theming. Question probably should have started in users, though.
[01:36:33] PatrickDickey: Ahhhh Sorry about that. I missed it. It must not have popped up on my screen yet. Thanks. I'll go back there, and read the answer.
[01:43:10] PatrickDickey: jpabq: Your reply didn't show up for me in theming.
[01:43:44] jpabq: Odd. Did it show up in users?
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[02:37:35] wagnerrp: i keep getting floods of "Recording will not commence until a PMT is set", and 0-byte files
[02:37:42] wagnerrp: any suggestions of where to start looking?
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[02:53:48] tonsofpcs: wagnerrp: the transport stream. Is this an antenna system?
[02:57:29] wagnerrp: broadcast channels, through unencrypted cable
[02:58:33] wagnerrp: happened twice since updating to a recent copy of master
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[03:07:05] tonsofpcs: interesting. What tuner?
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[03:07:54] tonsofpcs: actually, looks like what happens when a channel moves. Perhaps you need to rescan?
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[03:17:16] skd5aner: gigem: do you have any thoughts on #11207? I know you've got other stuff on your plate, but it's pretty much a scheduler related issue I'd believe and a regression
[03:18:15] skd5aner: I've heard several reports of it in -users on IRC and mailing list – along with myself. Anyway – was curious if fell into your realm
[03:24:12] wagnerrp: channels appear fine, as i recorded from them earlier tonight, and proceeded to record on them after restarting mythbackend
[03:24:52] wagnerrp: seems to have been caused when starting up a new recording on one virtual tuner, when another was still active on that tuner
[03:24:57] wagnerrp: on an hdhomerun
[03:25:13] wagnerrp: however i can't find any commits in the past few weeks that should have changed any of that
[03:25:29] skd5aner: that's not good... you replicate it everytime, on other muxes too?
[03:25:37] wagnerrp: no, can't replicate it
[03:25:53] wagnerrp: happened monday, happened tonight... didn't happen two other nights of recording
[03:25:54] tonsofpcs: interesting. Is it possible that your HDHR is sending just the PS and not the full TS? (I know it supports both modes but I thought myth always grabbed the TS...)
[03:26:49] wagnerrp: i'm assuming it gets a partial TS, filtered for only those programs it wants
[03:27:35] tonsofpcs: can the HDHR actually send that?
[03:27:47] ** tonsofpcs should snoop the data stream from the HDHR to his Myth box... **
[03:27:55] wagnerrp: the command line utility seems to indicate it can
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[05:17:08] gigem: skd5aner: Remind me tomorrow and I'll try to take a look at it. FYI, someone else (whom I can't remember) did the live TV/scheduler interaction. Even though I did review the code way back when, I can't say I'm real familiar with it.
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[05:18:59] skd5aner: gigem: no worries, thanks – will ping you either tomorrow or in the near future -thanks :)
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[13:12:56] stuartm: gigem: I like the schedule option improvements :)
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[13:32:49] stuarta: i'd be intruiged to know if it's faster ;)
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[14:13:10] stuartm: wagnerrp: a close inspection of any warning fix commits might turn up something,
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[15:57:12] gigem: stuartm: So do I.
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[16:00:28] gigem: stuarta: Do you mean the scheduler? If so, probably not as very little has changed under the hood. If you've got long scheduling runs, send me some -v schedule logs and I'll take a look. If you're using EIT, there's still a lot of room for improvement. I previously made some changes to improve EIT reschedules, but it needs someone familiar with the EIT scanning to actually use them.
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[16:05:17] stuarta: gigem: i've nothing specific at this time. it's a curiosity mainly :)
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[16:14:50] jpabq: How are we handing changes to external/FFmpeg ? Is someone maintaining a patch set for the next merge? Is is useful to contact janneg about such stuff?
[16:15:22] stuarta: <person> decides its a good time to merge up to <random_time>
[16:16:21] jpabq: the commflagger segfault pretty consistently on one of my channels. This prevents the segfault.
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[16:18:00] stuartm: jpabq: jya and Beirdo managed the last merges, they may be maintaining patches although both have been very busy so I doubt they've had the chance
[16:19:25] jpabq: Okay, thanks. I just wanted to see if it was okay if I commit that change to extern/FFmpeg, or if should be handled some other way. I don't want to make the life of the "merger" harder.
[16:20:14] jpabq: I could try and dig deeper to find the root cause of the problem, but I am guessing it is just damaged video.
[16:21:07] stuartm: jpabq: you can wait a few hours to get a response from Beirdo, I'd not wait for jya as no-one knows when going to be around
[16:21:24] stuartm: you could drop them both an email I guess
[16:22:03] jpabq: I have it fixed on my production machine, so I am not in a rush. I just figured others may be being bitten by the same issue.
[16:22:56] stuartm: there have been various claims of playback issues since the last merge, may be that the patch fixes it for some
[16:24:02] stuartm: I've seen an odd corruption issue with mpeg2 on one channel only, at the transition to the ad break but that was with vdpau – couldn't reproduce with ffmpeg
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[16:26:01] jpabq: Yeah, current installed version of VDPAU is terrible at handling any kind of damage. I have had to go back to using software decode and just VDPAU for rendering.
[16:32:02] gigem: jpabq: Older nvidia hardware doesn't have the problem. I've gone back to using the 9400 IGP on my main frontend. I sent nvidia several samples of problems and got an internal bug #, but haven't heard back from them in a week now. Hopefully a fix will pop out in some future driver upate.
[16:34:02] jpabq: gigem: thanks for the update. It would be nice if they fixed it.
[16:43:47] taylorr: what nvidia driver version are you experiencing issues with?
[16:44:31] jpabq: 44444444
[16:44:39] taylorr: 295.20 here
[16:45:01] jpabq: I am on 304.
[16:46:32] taylorr: I don't notice any issues with 295... I thought with debian-based distros you could go back to earlier versions
[16:47:42] taylorr: jpabq: is it you are going to be retiring your hd-pvrs?
[16:47:51] taylorr: err, is it true
[16:48:12] jpabq: I have no current plans to do so.
[16:49:12] taylorr: oh, I thought I read you were going to get comcast and cable card.
[16:49:40] jpabq: Heh. I probably am — but that is for work.
[16:50:37] jpabq: If that happens to work out well, then I might drop the Directv / HD-PVR, but that wont happen anytime real soon.
[16:50:53] gigem: taylorr: I noticed problems with anything newer then 295.x. The latest round of problems which prompted me to file the bug report occurred with 295, too.
[16:51:34] Chutt: gigem, what's the bug number?
[16:51:54] gigem: 1182660
[16:52:49] Chutt: been confirmed by qa and moved over to engineering
[16:53:19] gigem: Good to hear.
[16:54:08] taylorr: gigem: ah, so my version is hit too... thanks for filing the report
[16:54:30] gigem: yw.
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[17:05:21] Beirdo: Good morning
[17:06:18] Beirdo: jpabq: I'm not sure who's planning to merge FFmpeg next. If I do it, I always take a delta from our current tree to the FFmpeg it was based on, and then make sure our changes are applied post-merge
[17:06:35] jpabq: Good morning, Beirdo.
[17:06:46] Beirdo: it's always best to avoid mucking with it if we can, but if we can't avoid it, go for it
[17:06:47] jpabq: So, it is okay if I commit that change to Myth's tree?
[17:06:57] Beirdo: can't see why not
[17:07:09] jpabq: Would it do any good to try and contact janneg?
[17:07:30] Beirdo: it makes merges rougher, though, so if you can get it actually in upstream, all the better, yeah.
[17:08:26] Beirdo: OK, I'd better get out to the bus here :)
[17:08:34] Beirdo: TGIF
[17:09:12] taylorr: jpabq: remember, Janne is with libav now... he's pretty much gone from ffmpeg and mythtv
[17:10:22] jpabq: Right. That makes it harder, doesn't it?
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[17:20:19] stuartm: he should still be approachable, and since ffmpeg/libav are still sync'ing with each other if you get the fix into libav it will probably be merged into ffmpeg
[17:21:15] taylorr: chatting with Mark recently it seems they are starting to drift apart
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[17:24:23] stuartm: what a waste of talent
[17:26:14] taylorr: yep, and no one has officially adopted libav yet.... so I doubt they are getting very good feedback on regressions
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[18:23:26] hotwings: anyone using mythtv in NA by chance?
[18:23:36] hotwings: oops.. wrong channel i guess
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[19:13:11] danielk22: Is there an easy way to convert from gcc "\u05d0" to UCS-32? i.e. is it as simple as say writing 0x05d0 or is there more to it?
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[20:25:09] stuartm: danielk22: nice catch on the fd leak
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[20:29:14] danielk22: stuartm: I'm not 100% sure it is causing any real world problems, but there is some fd leak and the fixed code could cause an fd leak.
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[20:35:16] stuartm: tried valgrinding?
[20:36:23] Beirdo: lsof indicate what the fd in particular is? That might help a bit too
[20:38:41] danielk22: lsof does tell us what the fd is, but I can't find any structure in MythTV holding on to that FD.
[20:39:03] Beirdo: interesting. what are the details?
[20:39:06] danielk22: lsof does confirm it is the mythbackend process.
[20:39:33] Beirdo: what does the fd point to, basically
[20:40:10] danielk22: it points to a recently recorded and recently deleted file.
[20:40:15] Beirdo: oh
[20:40:31] Beirdo: hmm, slow deletion code?
[20:40:52] danielk22: At first I suspected the autoexpire code, but as far as I can tell it isn't the cause of the problem.
[20:42:20] danielk22: The files were actually moved from their original location to a new location (both locations in a storage group) by a script, so I think the deleted is a red herring. + I did some debugging on the autoexpire code and it appeared to be a bit slow, but not enough to cause the problem.
[20:55:49] danielk22: anyone have the answer to my UTF-8, UCS question? I want to convert some of the gcc specific \u stuff in our strings to standard C++ that icc will accept..
[21:01:48] Beirdo: haven't got a clue
[21:02:24] Beirdo: I guess to test it, you could try doing a hexdump both ways to see if they match
[21:02:40] danielk22: I
[21:02:59] danielk22: I'll just write a little program. I was just hoping to avoid that :P
[21:03:15] Beirdo: yeah, google *might* find something, but I don't know for sure
[21:03:36] Beirdo: and I'd be concerned about possible issues with endian as well
[21:04:02] Beirdo: 0x19, 0x45 might be wiser than 0x1945
[21:08:01] danielk22: I believe UTF-8 has a fixed byte order so that isn't a issue with the current code, and I'll be converting to UCS for QChar initialization so it won't be an issue there. The problem is the current code relies on a gcc extension (which is similar but not identical to the C++11 implementation of the same concept).
[21:08:36] Beirdo: cool
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[22:38:43] danielk22: I've pushed the UTF-8 string fixes. The UTF-8 and UCS were equivalent for all the codes we were using but from my reading on the topic this isn't always the case.
[22:43:06] danielk22: Beirdo: FYI about half the "compiler" warnings for master-f17–32bit are in from I assume that is the zmq configure step run on make, is that correct?
[22:45:46] stuartm: danielk22: how long were you planning on leaving the verbose socket logging in place?
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[22:47:14] danielk22: stuartm: Not much longer. I think it is working fairly well based on the lack of socket bug reports...
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[22:48:04] stuartm: ok thanks
[22:49:00] stuartm: it has a small impact on system performance here when streaming, so I was considering patching it out locally or modifying my backend init script to disable logging
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[22:52:48] danielk22: The logging is causing an impact on performance? Just because of it's verbosity?
[22:55:23] stuartm: the verbosity yeah, at least I'm assuming it's that and not a regression elsewhere, writes would be larger and more frequent
[22:55:45] stuartm: it is pretty verbose during streaming :)
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[22:56:02] danielk22: stuartm: can you e-mail me a sample log? I'm wondering if maybe it is more verbose for you than me...
[22:56:03] Beirdo: danielk22: interesting, not sure there
[22:56:35] Beirdo: probably
[22:58:56] stuartm: danielk22: sample of what I'm talking about,
[22:59:14] stuartm: I can still email a larger sample if required
[23:00:49] danielk22: ok, those I can get rid of immediately.. I thought maybe it was one of the "this is taking too long" messages.
[23:01:59] stuartm: cool
[23:03:03] stuartm: if it had been something more informative I'd have thought twice about ignoring them :)
[23:03:35] danielk22: The PRW ones are there because one of the last hurdles I ran into was these not being processed very quickly so I needed to look at when each message was sent and when it was received.. But I already fixed that problem..
[23:07:23] stuartm: it's no different to the logging I add when debugging stuff locally, so I understand why it's there :)
[23:08:23] stuartm: well it's a little different, it's a more coherent and fewer expletives
[23:08:44] Beirdo: hehe
[23:09:06] Beirdo: I've had some good expletives in logging before for debugging
[23:09:21] Beirdo: quite easy to search for capitalized F bombs
[23:09:50] Beirdo: just gotta remember to clean em up before committing :)
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[23:14:18] Kevin`: can someone PLEASE fix the client stopping responding or going to the main menu from streaming/tuning failures as a BUG?
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[23:15:42] Beirdo: is there a ticket in trac?
[23:16:05] Kevin`: probably not, it's been a bug for many years
[23:16:12] Beirdo: that is how bugs need to be reported
[23:16:23] Kevin`: i'm sure everyone's encountered it
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[23:18:19] Kevin`: the UI isn't showing a channel number in live tv so I can't delete channels in an attempt to somehow fix it
[23:18:29] danielk22: Kevin`: I've seen it occasionally but I've never been able to reliably reproduce it.
[23:18:37] Kevin`: maybe I can manually change the per-frontend starting channel in the database
[23:18:46] Kevin`: i've thought about doing that in a cron script several times
[23:19:05] Beirdo: not nearly everybody even uses liveTV, so...
[23:19:40] Beirdo: either way, most of us are insanely busy much of the time, so a trac ticket is still your best way to make sure it's not forgotten
[23:20:47] Kevin`: it's a design program really, the program shouldn't kick you back out to the menu while you are trying to change channels
[23:22:34] Kevin`: there's some deep problems
[23:23:54] danielk22: Kevin`: My suggestion was to remove LiveTV functionality. But I was out voted.
[23:24:23] Kevin`: what would you use for livetv functionality then
[23:24:31] Beirdo: a TV
[23:25:04] stuartm: Kevin`: it's just a reality that most developers don't actually watch live tv, they record everything they want to watch
[23:25:08] Kevin`: tv can't get a signal from the network, can't pause/rewind
[23:25:15] Beirdo: danielk22: yeah, I would vote the same if we want to drastically simplify design... unfortunately, a LOT of people use it
[23:25:41] Kevin`: where is the starting channel in the database?
[23:26:32] danielk22: startchan in cardinput
[23:27:09] Kevin`: is there a seperate per-frontend setting? my tv doesn't work but my laptop does
[23:27:10] stuartm: now we aren't stopping anyone from working on live tv problems, but very few people actually are prepared step up and contribute their time to working on it – if it's something that bothers you enough then get stuck into the code
[23:27:37] danielk22: Beirdo: It is unfortunately a lot of code that supports LiveTV. If everything was a recording we could still have pseudo-livetv it's just that channel changes would be much slower.
[23:28:38] stuartm: that is the way in which all work gets done in open source, someone has to be prepared to do the work – no amount of complaining can produce results on it's own
[23:29:14] Beirdo: danielk22: aye.
[23:29:21] Kevin`: I think there's fundamental problems with the UI design that would have to be addressed, threading done wrong or something
[23:29:28] Kevin`: that's not the kind of code I want to go into
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[23:30:25] Beirdo: mmm, scotch
[23:30:47] stuartm: I do think too many people forget or choose to ignore the fact that everyone who works on MythTV is just a user who volunteers some of their free time to the job for no reward whatsoever, if we all got paid it might be very different
[23:31:01] Beirdo: yeah.
[23:31:23] stuartm: Kevin`: it's not a UI problem, it's an error handling problem
[23:31:43] ** Beirdo curses httplib2 **
[23:31:49] Kevin`: stuartm: the UI not responding isn't an error condition, it's blocking when it shouldn't too
[23:32:03] Beirdo: now I have to implement my own stupid timeouts.
[23:32:37] stuartm: Kevin`: it's the error handling code that is blocking
[23:33:06] Kevin`: ok, when I start the frontend on the tv, it shows a black screen (with a program description but of course no channel number to look at) and then kicks me back to the meny with "video frame buffering failed too many times"
[23:33:23] stuartm: Kevin`: as recently as last night it was being discussed and _may_ get looked at but equally it may not
[23:33:35] stuartm: Kevin`: file a ticket, please
[23:33:59] Kevin`: I was hoping you could help me get more information
[23:34:07] Kevin`: this is an absurdly common error by itself
[23:34:13] stuartm: this isn't the place to discuss this unless you are working on a fix
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[23:34:42] Kevin`: I don't care about the design problems right now, I just want my tv to work
[23:34:43] stuartm: Kevin`: common for you, if it were so common for the developers then I'm sure someone by now would have fixed it
[23:35:41] Kevin`: . . . o+many+times
[23:35:52] stuartm: Kevin`: if it's _that_ important to you then you really should consider paying for Windows MCE or something instead, you cannot expect instant support for a free application
[23:35:52] Kevin`: bah, stupid google
[23:36:02] Kevin`: windows mce can't do live tv
[23:36:12] Kevin`: (networked)
[23:36:22] Kevin`: I would if it would solve anything
[23:36:39] Kevin`: please stop being hostile and help me gather some information
[23:37:47] Beirdo: you could try #mythtv-users
[23:37:57] stuartm: Kevin`: we are not being hostile, we are trying to be anything except hostile
[23:40:53] stuartm: I'm off to HR, going to demand a pay rise
[23:41:12] Kevin`: have another job lined up?
[23:42:03] Beirdo: I'm at my real job.
[23:43:50] stuartm: I'm wasting a perfectly good Friday night
[23:45:21] Kevin`: is there a per-frontend starting channel? the channel it's failing to tune isn't the starting channel from what I can tell
[23:46:03] knightr: danielk22,, it's not Japanese, it's Chinese...
[23:47:12] knightr: for the settings, the progdata stuff appears to be Japanese...)
[23:47:14] Kevin`: also, is there a default theme that shows the channel number?
[23:47:41] Kevin`: yeah, it's tuning 8–14, which is disabled and not the starting channel
[23:47:54] Kevin`: too bad I can't just run grep on a database :(
[23:47:58] danielk22: knightr: heh
[23:48:11] knightr: BTW, I hadn't put the UTF-8 character themselves in the code because I though they could cause problems...
[23:49:32] Kevin`: nobody knows why it's not starting on the starting channel? :(
[23:50:27] knightr: ps: I assume you thought they were japanese because the variables are called jp_something...
[23:50:55] Kevin`: maybe I got quieted or someting, I guess i'll just wade through the database until I find it
[23:51:08] stuartm: Kevin`: the last used channel is stored per virtual-tuner, changing the starting channel in mythtv-setup should change the value back to the same value on all VTs
[23:51:21] stuartm: cardinput table iirc
[23:51:46] Kevin`: the cardinput table has a consistant value and it isn't the one being used
[23:57:21] danielk22: knightr: I think those might be used in Japan too. I have a vague recollection of those calendar chars from college.
[23:59:06] danielk22: stuartm: would a 100% raise work? ;]
[23:59:59] Beirdo: hehe.

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