| Wednesday, May 16th, 2012, 00:10 UTC | ||
| [00:10:45] | jya_: | danielk22: that bug seems exactly like what i'm experiencing… i spent the whole day on this yesterday trying to identify what's going on… the last seek i received was for position 0, SEEK_SET, so it was rewinded already… so i don't think that patch would help :( |
| [00:11:22] | jya_: | i'm going to dump the TS stream on disk and try to play it instead.. sees if it works any better. so i can stop believing it's my code that's wrong |
| [00:12:55] | jya_: | oh, my bad… yes that should work… as to does a fseek to precisely where we were before.. that would prevent to simply exit |
| [00:13:30] | jya_: | why would it find a timestamp that is greater though ... |
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| [00:35:22] | jya: | danielk22: I put a break point in libavutil/utils.c where the test comparing the timestamp is done, and i don't get there... |
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| [05:08:32] | jya: | Captain_Murdoch: finally got on trying the HLS playlist you generate. and it's invalid |
| [05:08:46] | jya: | well, it doesn't follow the spec to be more exact |
| [05:10:16] | jya: | you have #EXT-X-ENDLIST at the beginning of the playlist, according toe the IETF spec: "The EXT-X-ENDLIST tag indicates that no more media files will be added to the Playlist file." so you can't have a list of TS segment after that |
| [05:14:20] | jya: | I guess you could interpret it differently, and only assume that the list isn't live... |
| [05:14:31] | jya: | was using it as tag to know when to stop parsing |
| [05:16:43] | jya: | that is an error however.. |
| [05:17:27] | jya: | it generates #EXTINF:num |
| [05:17:34] | jya: | it should be #EXTINF:num, |
| [05:17:44] | jya: | note the trailing comma.. |
| [05:18:42] | jya: | http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pantos-http- . . . 01#section-3 |
| [05:19:13] | jya: | note that in all example, there's a trailing comma, |
| [05:19:20] | jya: | even if the title is empty |
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| [05:44:46] | wagnerrp: | anyone know what purpose the DishNet EIT stuff serves? |
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| [06:56:33] | wagnerrp: | Captain_Murdoch: not sure if youve had a chance to look at the wiki recently, but some user added a page for a set of scripts hes working on to distribute a single transcode task among multiple machines |
| [06:56:59] | wagnerrp: | break the recording into chunks, transcode each chunk independently on multiple machines, and stitch them all back together |
| [06:58:01] | wagnerrp: | for some unexplainable reason, he wants each user to create their own BOINC project, and use BOINC clients to manage running these tasks rather than just use the internal jobqueue |
| [06:58:19] | wagnerrp: | but thats besides the point... |
| [06:58:39] | wagnerrp: | would you see such behavior as something that could be useful for HLS? |
| [06:59:08] | wagnerrp: | fire up mythtranscode on multiple machines simultaneously, and stagger the segments between them for higher throughput |
| [07:00:23] | wagnerrp: | it wouldnt help for initial startup or seeking, but could allow users to use higher resolution with more aggressive compressor settings |
| [07:00:33] | wagnerrp: | than their individual backend hardware would otherwise allow in real time |
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| [08:50:34] | peitolm: | wagnerrp: I could see it being useful for multiple backends full stop, almost more useful than HLS |
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| [10:27:47] | jya: | well, myth can now play its own generated HLS stream... |
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| [14:07:06] | Captain_Murdoch: | jya, made changes in my source to add the comma after EXTINF and to move EXT-X-ENDLIST to the end of the file. nothing specifically states that the endlist tag must be at the end, but it doesn't hurt to move it there so I did. I'll commit soon along with some other HLS changes I have. |
| [14:08:56] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: I added a special case if there's no trailing , |
| [14:09:03] | jya_: | you're right about EXT-X-ENDLIST |
| [14:09:09] | jya_: | i think it doesn't matter |
| [14:09:32] | jya_: | i think I spent too much time trying to implement the change of stream live managing the bandwidth |
| [14:09:46] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, long-term it might be OK to use the JobQueue for that if we can fire off jobs immediately. I have also wondered whether it would make sense to just have a transcode daemon that processed jobs. benefit there is that it doesn't have to keep firing up and shutting down player/transcode code for short 4–10s segments. I think a user had a script that broke up transcode a few years ago, that version was pretty crude as I r |
| [14:09:48] | jya_: | ffmpeg failed most of my tests |
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| [14:10:57] | wagnerrp: | im not saying a new instance for each segment, or even that it has to be run through the jobqueue |
| [14:11:04] | jya_: | the iPad has no problem with all mpeg-ts but one … going to report the bug to ffmpeg |
| [14:11:06] | wagnerrp: | just more thinking about the daemon route |
| [14:11:29] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah, whether it's the JobQueue or a new transcode daemon, I think the daemon idea is good. |
| [14:12:13] | Captain_Murdoch: | I don't want to make a new daemon, but I think that would be the best solution since it can keep a playback session open for a short period to see if it gets any more requests for new segments. |
| [14:12:50] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: do you know of any HLS live stream? I have completed the code, but I haven't been able to test it yet |
| [14:13:47] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, jya said that AirVideo is presenting the full playlist to the client at the very beginning, so it's encoding it's 4 second long segments on demand. I've made a bunch of notes on my TODO to think about that route. |
| [14:14:59] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: i don't think it's entirely on demand.. it does start encoding as it starts… but you can start immediately, and seek everywhere, with no wait |
| [14:15:28] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: the good thing about adding the EXT-X-ENDLIST after the last segment |
| [14:16:08] | jya_: | is that , it allows to detect that it's a live stream; and as such start a refresh mode, where it reloads the playlist every few seconds (i made it after playback of each segment) |
| [14:21:05] | Captain_Murdoch: | jya, well, if you seek, it's on demand. sorry 'about that. :) yeah, we can take a request for a non-existent segment more than 'X' segments in the future as an indication to seek and start encoding at that segment. the logic would be in knowing that the player is going to prefetch a certain number of segments at startup if we say that they are available. |
| [14:21:47] | Captain_Murdoch: | I don't know of any live HLS samples off the top of my head. I think I have seen a few links but didn't bookmark them. some webcams support HLS, so there are probably some out there. |
| [14:23:32] | jya_: | i guess i can wait for your commit that add the end tag at the end, that will work simulating a live stream |
| [14:24:15] | Captain_Murdoch: | right now I don't add that tag until transcoding is complete, so if you try to play a file while it's transcoding, the player should think that it is live. |
| [14:24:36] | jya_: | i can foresee an issue playing those streams, as they are detected as Live, I position the play start time to be as close to the end as possible, as to simulate a real live connection |
| [14:25:34] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: adding the tag only after it's complete, provided you can only get the segments in order, is the right thing to do |
| [14:26:43] | jya_: | wanna try my code ? :) |
| [14:27:28] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah, that was one of hte issues I ran into when testing. if I set the endlist tag, the player will never reload the playlist. according to the spec, it's up to the client where to start playback at, so if the client thinks it's live, it imay start playback near the end. not much we can do about that I think since if we set the endlist tag while still encoding, the client may never reload the playlist since it thinks it has t |
| [14:27:28] | Captain_Murdoch: | ist because of hte end tag. |
| [14:29:17] | Captain_Murdoch: | if you want to send a (link to a) patch, I can take a look, but can't promise anything due to being in the middle of moving. |
| [14:29:56] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: the iPhone/iPad should do it properly no ? |
| [14:30:22] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: oh well, they can always use myth to read the stream, we properly handle it :) |
| [14:30:38] | Captain_Murdoch: | one of my other long-term ideas is to get HLS support working with Roku devices. being able to browse all video media and playing back on demand on my Roku would be nice. |
| [14:30:59] | jya_: | does Roku have a HLS playback mode ? |
| [14:31:09] | Captain_Murdoch: | I can't recall, I think that my iPhone started at the beginning of the stream even when the endlist tag was not present. |
| [14:31:55] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: I can make it start at the beginning of the stream, rather than select the 3rd last segment (I go before the last 2 to keep some buffer) |
| [14:31:57] | Captain_Murdoch: | yes, Roku supports HLS. |
| [14:32:43] | Captain_Murdoch: | playback at beginning is best IMHO, let the user seek. if the server doesn't want users starting at the beginning of the stream, the server can only keep the last X segments in the playlist. |
| [14:34:03] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: the problem is that FFmpeg detects a EOF if you skip too much at once |
| [14:34:13] | jya_: | or more likely, myth does |
| [14:34:25] | jya_: | so doing a FF of 2 minutes is mostly okay |
| [14:34:51] | Captain_Murdoch: | http://www.roku.com/developer has a little info on Roku's HLS and codec support. |
| [14:34:54] | jya_: | with 5 minutes, I'm almost guaranteed to exit, with FFmpeg flagging a EOF |
| [14:35:04] | jya_: | I hope someone can look into this problem |
| [14:37:50] | jya_: | looks interesting this roky |
| [14:37:52] | jya_: | roku |
| [15:00:04] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: can you provide me the patch for adding the tag at the end ? so I can test the live stream ? |
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| [15:47:20] | jya_: | Captain_Murdoch: someone made a fair comment… Is there a HLS transcode option that keep the video as is if it's already in h264? |
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| [15:59:07] | stuartm: | that would depend on the bitrate too, no? |
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| [16:01:57] | stuartm: | the fact already H.264 doesn't imply that it's already been compressed down to a streaming friendly size, broadcast H.264 would exceed my upload by a multiple of 10x |
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| [16:09:40] | wagnerrp: | not to mention one potentially unusable by many devices |
| [16:10:04] | wagnerrp: | its something that do to, would have to be done intelligently with some profiling mechanism |
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| [16:10:44] | stuartm: | aye, you'd want to check the profile too |
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| [16:14:04] | stuartm: | and does the protocol support devices specifying the profiles they support? If not you'd have to target the baseline so those Blu-ray rips and recordings would have to be transcoded anyhow, so it would apply only stuff you'd pre-transcoded to a the baseline profile, at a much lower bitrate and potentially resolution too |
| [16:15:58] | wagnerrp: | at the moment, the user must specify the parameters they want |
| [16:16:01] | wagnerrp: | so it doesnt matter |
| [16:23:19] | jya_: | stuartm: if transcoding for an iPhone or iPad , yes, you would want to limit the bitrate… But there's no reason HLS has to be limited to a specific bitrate... |
| [16:24:01] | jya_: | obviously, this would be something chosen specifically by the user : keep video as original or something |
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| [16:27:07] | stuartm: | it has to be limited for available bandwidth, I mean most people want HLS for watching their recordings/videos remotely, and few such networks could handle the bitrate of broadcast video (most likely not their home connections and very unlikely the hotel/cafe wifi) |
| [16:27:35] | jya_: | stuartm: I agree with you for streaming remotely… but who said you can't be local ? |
| [16:28:09] | jya_: | why put a restriction in place when not having it is actually easier |
| [16:28:18] | stuartm: | no-one, I'm just saying that there's more to it than "keep the video as is if it's already in h264" |
| [16:28:33] | jya_: | sure… i totally agree with you that for many it would have no use |
| [16:29:03] | jya_: | but having an option such as keep original, keep original bitrate or whatever ; as some use |
| [16:29:17] | jya_: | for a start, for me, all my HLS transcode look crap no matter the settings I use :) |
| [16:32:46] | stuartm: | yeah, that's why I don't watch web video (catch up type stuff), it looks crap :) Still not sure why everyone is calling it the future of TV (sure, maybe in 10–20 years when we're all on fibre and all the intermediary routers/networks have been upgraded to allow streaming of 10–30Mbps H.264 at 1080p) |
| [16:34:03] | stuartm: | but why when everyone fell in love with HD and rushed out to buy 52" 1080p screens does anyone want to watch some crappily encoded, 720 (HD??) video from BBC iPlayer or Hulu? |
| [16:38:04] | jya_: | stuartm: oh, this quality problem is unique to myth… I use HLS everyday on my iPad… every evening I watch a TV serie episode in bed.. it's awesome :) |
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| [16:41:16] | wagnerrp: | stuartm: the quality problem jya_ is currently talking about is the encoder is artificially constrained to H264 level 1.3 |
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| [16:41:35] | jya_: | wagnerrp: it's still bizarre it's good for some |
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| [16:41:40] | wagnerrp: | which works just fine when youre talking about little QCIF video at <1Mbps for use over a residential internet |
| [16:41:53] | wagnerrp: | but no good for anything higher quality |
| [16:42:59] | stuartm: | right, I'm just generalising about web 'streaming' generally, IMHO the results are unimpressive and I'd much rather record it OTA or rent/buy the DVD/Blu-ray :) |
| [16:43:23] | wagnerrp: | jya_: there are actually a lot of differences between the mythtv and plex samples that user on the ML had posted |
| [16:43:40] | stuartm: | some people seem to have no problem with the lower quality, I'm not one of those but neither am I a videophile |
| [16:43:53] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro initially mentioned it a couple days back, wanting me to forward a patch to convert mythtv into using plex's format |
| [16:44:00] | jya_: | stuartm: ever tried the Apple TV ? |
| [16:44:08] | jya_: | the new 1080p videos are awesome IMHO |
| [16:44:09] | wagnerrp: | but the level stood out as particularly problematic, so i just had him change that one line |
| [16:44:33] | wagnerrp: | take a look at mediainfo, or lacking that, `less` does almost as well |
| [16:44:53] | wagnerrp: | since x264 dumps its parameters directly into the header of the video stream |
| [16:44:56] | jya_: | wagnerrp: yeah, I've been trying all of iamlindoro patches... |
| [16:45:04] | jya_: | it's never as good as what I get with AirVideo |
| [16:45:26] | stuartm: | jya_: no, but I'm am cynical, if they were truly that good broadcasters wouldn't be wasting so much bandwidth ;) |
| [16:45:28] | wagnerrp: | to be fair, mythtv already has considerably better quality (and slower) settings than were used by plex |
| [16:45:42] | wagnerrp: | besides using Baseline L1.3 |
| [16:45:51] | wagnerrp: | Plex is running Main L3.1 |
| [16:46:45] | wagnerrp: | however its not using any parameters such that Baseline vs. Main should have any effect |
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| [16:46:58] | wagnerrp: | and in the case of the current iPad and ATV, it could be using High |
| [16:48:14] | jya_: | wagnerrp: i really need to track what airvideo is using |
| [16:48:18] | jya_: | they really got it spot on |
| [16:48:35] | wagnerrp: | this is on one of the new units? |
| [16:48:44] | jya_: | what's the constant name for the longest int64_t available ? |
| [16:48:58] | wagnerrp: | huh? |
| [16:49:07] | wagnerrp: | rather than int64_t? |
| [16:49:08] | jya_: | wagnerrp: AirVideo is an app for iPhone/iPad… it comes with a server for mac, linux, windows |
| [16:49:26] | wagnerrp: | no, i mean are you viewing it on one of the new ipad/atv units? |
| [16:49:34] | jya_: | on linux, the server is a java app that calls a custom ffmpeg exe |
| [16:49:39] | wagnerrp: | those are capable of CABAC, while the older units are not |
| [16:49:53] | jya_: | the biggest long is LONG_MAX, int is INT_MAX |
| [16:49:56] | wagnerrp: | which means a direct 25–30% improvement in compressibility |
| [16:50:04] | jya_: | but what is it for int64_t ? (long long) |
| [16:50:06] | wagnerrp: | oh, the preprocessor define |
| [16:51:04] | wagnerrp: | right now, both mythtv and plex are just using CAVLC |
| [17:02:43] | jya_: | ok… live HLS works... |
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| [17:08:39] | jya_: | Well.. off to bed, good night everyone |
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| [17:50:16] | Captain_Murdoch: | jya, http://pastebin.ca/2149430 for the EXTINF and ENDLIST changes |
| [17:52:41] | sphery: | jya_: fwiw, 01 is an outdated rev of the HLS spec... You want: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pantos-http-live-streaming-08 , which has this to say about #EXT-X-ENDLIST: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pantos-http- . . . ection-3.4.8 |
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| [17:54:56] | Captain_Murdoch: | jya, I'd say that a "copy the video stream" feature would be more hassle than it's worth since most content would have to be reencoded for bitrate, HLS compliance (keyframes, etc.), and various other reasons, so I wouldn't see spending a lot of time on it specifically. Now, lossless transcode I could see working on, but not the time spent on lossless HLS to handle the infinite number of device and bandwidth combinations out ther |
| [17:55:27] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, that looks like the spec I read, so that change isn't necessary I guess. /me reverts the ENDLIST change in his local checkout. |
| [17:56:02] | sphery: | hehe, well I wasn't saying not to include it--just mentioning the update for those who know the issues/are writing the code :) |
| [17:56:33] | Captain_Murdoch: | well, the spec says anywhere, so my code was already compliant. no compelling reason to list it before or after the list of segments. |
| [17:56:48] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: I'd send a few beer tokens your way if you did work on lossless H.264 trancodes |
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| [18:27:22] | Captain_Murdoch: | stuartm, lossless is something I'd like to look at as I plan on stopping my own lossy transcoding soon. had a new hard drive burned in and tested but didn't want to switch to using it until after the move. |
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| [18:49:01] | skd5aner: | So, don't cane me or anything – but is there a ballpark target for a 0.26 release date (or timeframe)? |
| [18:49:18] | skd5aner: | Just wondering if there's a goal in mind |
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| [18:52:30] | stichnot: | skd5aner: The best unofficial info I can report is http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/4/2012-05-11:17:00:22 |
| [18:54:32] | skd5aner: | stichnot: ty, yea – I would cast my vote for a short 0.26 – I think users would really appreciate it |
| [18:55:50] | skd5aner: | I do think that the API (and HLS) is a game changer in terms of what users and 3'rd parties would expect in terms of updates and not just fixes |
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| [19:54:29] | stichnot: | For preview generation, how is an image transmitted from the master or slave backend where it is generated, to the frontend that requests it? |
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| [19:58:33] | Captain_Murdoch: | mythtv protocol via a myth:// URL |
| [19:59:00] | Captain_Murdoch: | just as if the preview was already there and viewed on a remote FE. |
| [19:59:20] | stichnot: | ok, thanks. |
| [20:05:32] | Captain_Murdoch: | I think there is an event that gets sent back to the FE when the preview is ready so the FE can load it. |
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| [20:17:47] | stuartm: | there is |
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| [23:50:32] | UForgotten: | howdy all. I got an hdhomerun and I'm a little confused on the channel matching process |
| [23:52:20] | UForgotten: | from mythtv-setup I did a full channel scan and then it added the channels but it never gave me a chance to try to merge them with the listings provider. The wiki references older stuff so I didnt know if that has changed or not in 0.25 |
| [23:55:16] | UForgotten: | in the Scte65scan wiki page I'm not following what they mean by do the connections. I feel like someone is telling me to do the needful. |
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