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Friday, March 30th, 2012, 00:21 UTC
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[04:00:14] xris: Beirdo: think we have everything we need off of the old "new" machine?
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[04:12:55] wagnerrp: could you make one last filesystem snapshot before taking it down?
[04:13:19] wagnerrp: there are a number of installed tools that never made it over to the dedicated server
[04:13:29] wagnerrp: and its convenient if nothing as a reference to what they are
[04:13:59] wagnerrp: in particular, im thinking about things like trac where all addons get installed to /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages
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[04:21:21] xris: wagnerrp: yeah, I already planned to do that
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[05:08:59] Beirdo: xris: not sure, I think so. There's something niggling in the back of my mind, but nothing we couldn't recover from a snapshot
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[09:34:03] kenni: stuartm: I can help with the Danish EIT testing once we have released 0.25 – I just need to complete the Danish translation first.
[09:35:47] stuarta: EIT updates are easy backports anyway
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[11:30:25] knightr: Does anybody else in ATSC land have weird language descriptions for descriptive audio tracks? The main audio track is OK but the descriptive audio is either in Middle English or in Middle French (Middle English when it's an English channel, Middle French when it's a French channel)
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[12:11:25] stuartm: I didn't know you had AD tracks in the US, that actually improves the chances that we'll finally add support combining AD tracks with the main audio
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[12:42:15] danielk22: stuartm: AD are the description for the blind tracks? Those exist but are rare in the US. I've only seen it on some Simpsons episodes.
[12:44:59] stuartm: danielk22: yes, with DVB they are generally designed to be decoded simultaneously with the main audio and combined for output, in the UK most programming on public funded channels e.g. BBC, Channel 4 feature AD but it's provided for some programming on other channels too
[12:45:17] stuartm: it allows appears on some DVDs
[12:47:36] danielk22: I just a forum post saying C++11 has an override keyword, so the compiler can catch when a virtual function you are overriding has its signature changed. Very cool.
[12:47:50] danielk22: s/just a/just read a/
[12:48:40] stuartm: that could help catch some bugs :)
[12:53:00] danielk22: Yep, we've had that one hit us a few times, and it can be really difficult to debug when it happens.
[13:00:40] ** wagnerrp prefers RP closed captioning **
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[13:14:01] stuartm: wagnerrp: CC > Braille system?
[13:15:57] wagnerrp: RP = richard prior
[13:16:04] wagnerrp: he shouts so you can hear it better
[13:16:24] stuartm: heh
[13:51:58] stuarta: hah
[13:52:24] ** stuarta plays scrabble with the 4 chars different between those 2 lines **
[13:54:39] wagnerrp: stuartm: im going to start into upgrading the wiki, xr is said there were mysql credentials for backup floating around on some script on alcor
[13:54:44] wagnerrp: any other suggestions?
[13:56:06] wagnerrp: looks like current is 1.18.2, were on 1.15.something
[14:07:35] stuarta: you attempting to a) upgrade wiki b) migrate to different db?
[14:08:09] wagnerrp: just upgrade 1.15->1.18.2, and try to get it working again
[14:08:26] wagnerrp: making a backup so i can try it once offline
[14:08:44] wagnerrp: so i know the process... and have a backup should i break something
[14:25:39] stuarta: fun fun fun
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[14:29:19] wagnerrp: anyone know if OSUOSL offers IPv6 routing?
[14:29:51] wagnerrp: seems 1.18 offers a number of related bugfixes should we want to pick up a subnet
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[16:08:46] stichnot: stuartm, jya. User reports that re-selecting the theme fixes the severe slowdown of loading Watch Recordings screen, for the duration of the mythfrontend process. Does that make any sense?
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[16:42:50] stuartm: no sense at all
[16:44:25] stuartm: worth keeping in mind that nothing has really changed in PBB or ProgramInfo between 0.24 and 0.25 to account for any slowdown between those versions, so there is definitely something else at play
[16:46:40] stuartm: reloading the theme doesn't do any 'initialisation of strings' as suggested in that post and in fact it's likely to wipe some existing caches which should make it temporarily slower instead
[16:48:27] stuartm: stichnot: ^
[16:50:52] stichnot: stuartm: I was looking at ProgramInfo diffs between 0.24 and 0.25. The main difference of any relevance is the use of MythDateToString and related funcs in 0.25, which makes it slightly harder to check for date/time format changes
[16:51:16] stichnot: and it sounds like something is going weird/wrong in the settings cache for the user
[16:53:02] stuartm: MythDateToString() just wrappers the existing QDateTime::toString() work that occurred in 0.24, it simplified some stuff by moving all time/date formatting to one point to allow easy maintenance and better consistency across the frontend
[16:53:38] stuartm: stichnot: settings cache is a possibility I guess
[16:56:05] stuartm: it's not impossible that is a problem with MythDate{Time}ToString() but it's improbable, especially as it only seems to be affecting one or two users – might be worth checking what his configured date strings are, whether they are different to those of someone who can't reproduce the issue
[16:56:51] stuartm: the date/time string formats would be in the settings cache too so maybe there's some connection there?
[16:57:30] stichnot: that's what I mean, a settings cache problem wrt format strings
[16:57:46] stuartm: fwiw, danielk22's setting fixes in the last couple of days may also be worth a look, if the date strings weren't being loaded correctly on startup before we had DB access ...
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[17:12:05] knightr: stuartm, (I think you were replying to what I said) the first time I noticed them was when they showed MI3 (I believe it was in French but I am not a 100% sure :) ) about a week ago. They could have been there before but I was checking for translation problems
[17:13:44] knightr: so I chose just about every option in the menus...
[17:17:36] knightr: The channels that offered them were locals (I`m in Canada btw...). I can`t check if the US channels I should normally be able to watch (I`m near Montreal) offer them as well as my antenna is broken and must be replaced so I only get some local channels...
[17:22:24] knightr: I didn`t see anything in the description that said they were descriptive audio tracks but when I listened to them I realized that`s what they were... The only weird thing about them was that the main track language was correctly identified but the language of these tracks was either Middle French or Middle English.. :)
[17:22:41] knightr: ttyl, I need to go back to work.
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[17:33:04] stichnot: stuartm: from 0.24 to 0.25, default for DateFormat lookup changed from "ddd MMMM d" to "ddd d MMMM", and ShortDateFormat from "M/d" to "ddd d". I doubt that is relevant.
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[17:40:29] stichnot: The kSimplify flag (using Today/Yesterday/Tomorrow when possible) is new in 0.25. I also doubt this is relevant.
[17:40:57] stuartm: knightr: for 0.26 one of the things I'm working on is identifying AD tracks in the menu for mpeg-ts (where they are correctly identified in the source), possibly it will also apply to ATSC too
[17:41:30] stuartm: stichnot: right, it's too simple a substitution to cause the sort of overhead being reported
[17:48:08] stuartm: there are three extra date comparisons there for kSimplify, but those shouldn't be that slow and they wouldn't suddenly get faster after a reload
[17:48:34] danielk22: Any ideas why mythfrontend "exit and shutdown" would be actually shutting down the machine even though my shutdown command is "echo Ouch! don't do that"
[17:48:56] stuartm: danielk22: it was changed to use dbus iirc instead of the shutdown command ...
[17:49:20] danielk22: Even when there is a shutdown command, that sounds like a major bug.
[17:49:32] danielk22: I'm sure it's supposed to prefer the shutdown command.
[17:49:33] stuartm: I'm not sure whether the shutdown command is even used any more, but sphery ought to know
[17:49:40] stuartm: danielk22: could be
[17:50:02] danielk22: sphery: ^^^ Any clue on the shutdown issue?
[17:52:04] Beirdo: ummm, how is that even possible?
[17:54:32] danielk22: Beirdo: The dbus daemon runs as root, so we have access to root only commands via dbus.
[17:54:53] Beirdo: hmmm, true. ick
[17:55:10] Beirdo: hadn't thought of that wrinkle :)
[17:56:47] danielk22: I've shut down the family file server twice in as many days through fat fingering. Decided to take a look at my config and test just now and shut it down another 3 times before I was convinced it wasn't a configuration error.
[17:57:25] Beirdo: yeah, that's nasty. I've never seen it happen to me, but obviously, there's a code path that allows it.
[17:57:31] danielk22: I can't imagine the carnage if we released 0.25 with this on homes with 4–6 y.o. kids..
[17:58:14] stichnot: startdate changed from short to full date format (and shortstartdate was added). Same with enddate and shortenddate. startyear and endyear were added.
[17:58:38] Beirdo: heheh. danielk22: we have a ticket for that yet,, BTW/
[17:59:06] danielk22: stichnot: You think that is causing a slowdown from 0.24->0.25?
[17:59:11] stichnot: Still, only 2 fullDate strings were added to an existing set of 4 or 5, so I still don't understand the severe slowdowns some people see
[17:59:30] stichnot: danielk22: no, that doesn't resonate as the right answer
[17:59:59] stichnot: ProgramInfo::ToMap is definitely more expensive, but I don't see it as so much more expensive to be noticeable
[18:00:20] danielk22: stichnot: I think QDateTime is much slower on some systems than others. I don't have any proof, but things that run fine on my system cause major problems for others.
[18:02:10] stichnot: right, but I think we should have heard from 0.24 users about extreme slowness, not just 0.25. I suspect that our particular use of QDateTime has changed in 0.25 to draw out new Qt performance problems.
[18:03:05] stichnot: and we are hearing this from users just now trying out 0.25, presumably they were on 0.24 before.
[18:03:40] danielk22: stichnot: it should be easy enough to write a program to time a loop of 1,000,000 QDateTime::toString() with the different formats.
[18:03:56] stuartm: danielk22: iirc there's an option to not display the shutdown/reboot menu items
[18:07:02] danielk22: stuartm: I think I may have discovered the problem, I set the halt command in mythtv-setup, but not in mythfrontend.. testing now.
[18:07:02] stuartm: fwiw, we could remove shortstartdate/shortenddate, I can't imagine many people will want to display those, in that context the year is important
[18:07:31] stuartm: danielk22: ah, right the one in mythtv-setup is for the backend shutdown, not frontend
[18:08:03] danielk22: sphery: stuartm: yeah, user error. Once I set the frontend one it behaved as expected.
[18:09:44] danielk22: stuartm: I also changed it to only show quit :)
[18:14:06] stuartm: Beirdo: re  – blockers are any bug that must be fixed before release, in this case we have a crash in the first screen a new user sees when they install mythtv which is IMHO a must-fix
[18:14:50] danielk22: stuartm: I believe that may be something I already fixed...
[18:15:27] Beirdo: I'm not sure that those are even valid anymore
[18:15:58] Beirdo: if they still are crashing, then yeah, could be considered a blocker
[18:17:30] danielk22: Confirmed, I fixed the ShowOkPopup() crash a while back.
[18:18:41] danielk22: [f53cc94e] Dec 11, 2011.
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[18:19:34] Beirdo: yeah, that is referenced in the ticket
[18:20:18] Beirdo: woulda been nice if LVR split that into several tickets
[18:26:36] danielk22: Beirdo: But there is the whole "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" thing. LVR finds lots of bugs even if his solutions aren't always elegant or submitted properly. We fixed a lot of bugs with discovered by Erik Hovland which were reported in big batches with just PoC fixes.
[18:27:13] Beirdo: Oh, I agree. But it does make it difficult to judge how finished a ticket really is
[18:28:22] Beirdo: especially when it comes to Windows. He's found a few really meaty bugs there
[18:29:46] Beirdo: not to mention got it compiling for Windows fairly predictably
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[18:50:51] stichnot: danielk22: I agree it would be easy to write a QDateTime timing program, but I'm not sure I would want to ask users to run it.
[18:51:43] stichnot: For better or worse, this problem will be swept under the carpet using the pattern of background full-initialization of Watch Recordings items...
[19:20:01] stichnot: Something else just occurred to me. If there is something broken with the settings cache, then loading Watch Recordings could lead to thousands of DB queries for the date/time format settings (plus channel formats), and visiting the Appearances setting screens could get the settings cache fixed up and speed things up again.
[19:33:07] stichnot: danielk22: ^^^ You made some Settings changes recently. Are any of the changes likely to affect this speculated behavior?
[19:33:29] danielk22: stichnot: nope
[19:33:43] danielk22: stichnot: nothing recent anyway
[19:33:56] stichnot: good, so I can just look at the most recent code instead of digging back in time :)
[19:41:07] stichnot: Is it possible that _host.toLower() in MythDB::GetSettingOnHost would do the wrong thing if _host isn't entirely ascii characters, or something like that?
[19:42:59] danielk22: stichnot: possible but unlikely..
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[19:45:15] stichnot: well, -v database logs should help, I'll ask for those
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[20:31:37] stuarta: wagnerrp: i'd love it if we could get native ipv6 at OSUOSL
[20:44:12] wagnerrp: wiki should be functioning now
[20:44:22] wagnerrp: and is running 1.18.2 with up to date extensions
[20:44:40] stichnot: can the new "git blame" on include a date column?
[20:45:30] wagnerrp: new git blame?
[20:46:30] stichnot: when you browse the code base on and press the "Blame" button
[20:46:44] stichnot: I assume the code browser has been moved away from github
[20:46:47] stuarta: i think we are using a standard package
[20:47:21] stuarta: you should be able to click on the changeset next to the blame to find out full details of the commit
[20:48:59] wagnerrp: are you talking about the trac code browser?
[20:49:31] stichnot: yeah, I think so...
[20:49:42] wagnerrp: do note that is like 7 weeks old
[20:50:23] wagnerrp: the github module simply isnt installed to redirect it to the github code browser
[20:50:36] wagnerrp: with luck, i can get the changeset caching to work in trac
[20:51:00] wagnerrp: because without it, that code browser tends to be very slow
[20:51:19] wagnerrp: although it does seem to be significantly quicker than i remember
[20:51:40] stichnot: Today is the first time I've seen the trac code browser. I guess the redirection to github has recently been removed
[20:52:02] wagnerrp: rather, the github module isnt loaded to handle the redirection
[20:52:59] stichnot: anyway, it looks like the color coding of the changeset in the "blame" view must be something like dark blue is really old and bright red is really new
[20:53:33] wagnerrp: looks about right
[20:54:32] wagnerrp: we can probably get in there and tweak the palette
[20:59:33] stichnot: the reason I bring it up is that when I use the "blame" view, it's often to see what has changed relatively recently, and it's helpful to have the datestamp right there.
[21:11:59] stuartm: stichnot: if the cache was broken then it would show up with -v database
[21:12:18] stuartm: oops, you've already said that
[21:31:11] Beirdo: wagnerrp: we could just use cgit instead of the one in trac
[21:31:21] Beirdo: as it's installed anyways
[21:31:45] Beirdo: whatever works, in the end.
[21:31:55] wagnerrp: we could, but then we would need to work out doing linking like the github module previously supplied
[21:32:07] Beirdo: agreed.
[21:32:38] Beirdo: this doesn't seem to hideous... yet :)
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