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aloril, Anduin, anykey_, Beirdo, ben1066, brfransen, brtb, CaCtus491, Captain_Murdoch, cattelan, Chutt, clever, coling_, Cougar, damaltor, danielk22, dekarl, dlblog, ElmerFudd, foobum, foxbuntu, ghoti, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, highzeth, J-e-f-f-A, J-LAW, j-rod|afk, jafa, jams, jarle, jcarlos, joe_, joki, jpabq-, jstenback, jwhite, k-man, knightr, kormoc, kurre2, kwmonroe, laga, mag0o_, MavT, mrand, MythBuild, MythLogBot, mzanetti, NightMonkey, OldEnK, peitolm, pheld, poptix, purserj, rhpot1991, skd5aner, Slasher`, sphery, sraue, stuarta, stuartm, superm1, sutula, tgm4883, TheAsp, The_Ball, ThisNewGuy, tomimo, tris, Unhelpful, vallor, wagnerrp, wahrhaft, wseltzer, xavierh, xris, Yancho, yb0t, zCougar, _charly_
Tuesday, March 20th, 2012, 00:00 UTC
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[00:37:24] gigem: dekarl: thanks for helping on #10444. fyi, i'm trying to work with brian off-line now.
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[01:10:06] sphery: knightr: yeah, if it's not something being actively maintained, it doesn't make sense to keep it. Oh, and as far as screenshots on wiki, you can do that--see for an example (and feel free to ask for help figuring out the wiki stuff if you decide to do that for the translation stuff)
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[02:28:38] fphillips: I updated Release_Notes-0.25 with the RC release. Someone with privileges will need to update it on the wiki Main_Page.
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[03:07:46] jpabq-: my turn not to be able to send to mythtv-theming
[03:08:03] jpabq-: Captain_Murdoch, knightr reported a typo in Steppes and Steppes-narrow. I have fixed it, and pushed out a new version of each. Thanks.
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[08:35:02] dekarl: gigem, good thing it was a pilot error. I use the inactive flag myself ;)
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[10:56:14] stuartm: ffs, video scan just wiped my database because it didn't wait for the NAS to leave standby
[10:56:40] stuartm: lost the watched status for all my videos >:(
[11:00:23] stuarta: arse biscuits!
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[11:21:10] stuartm: good argument to be made for a delayed deletion of metadata, it doesn't hurt to make videos as 'unavailable' in the database but retain the metadata for a period (or indefinitely)
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[11:27:15] stuarta: it would help with the support of removable content
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[11:47:45] danielk22: stuartm: Is there an option to turn off animations? The new animations in MythCenter-wide really killed the WAF here..
[11:48:45] knightr: kenni, John updated his theme so the string that had problems should be fixed now... We stll have that character set issue for his theme description, I thought that had been fixed? I'm almost tempted to fix this manually. There's one string I would have liked to fix before the hard string freeze (missing info in it) but I forgot about it and it's too late now. If you wish I can send the email but we have to make sure we got John string theme fi
[11:48:45] knightr: x *and* fix that character set issue (manually if needs be). Got you ermail reply, take good care of yourself! ttyl
[11:50:19] stuartm: danielk22: no, there is no setting to control whether animations are used
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[12:05:22] xavierh: stuartm: I found the -v gui very unhelpfull for themer, I have this is the log "Container 'exit prompt' is missing child 'title'" I first need to check where 'exit prompt' is used in the code, knowing it use MythDialogBox, that if the 'exit prompt' is not fullscreen so it is using a window name "MythPopupBox". This is a very long stretch for a
[12:05:27] xavierh: themer expecilly if we assume a themer is not a devi and might not know anything about c++. I am trying to change the log to display something like "container 'window' named 'MythPopupBox' does not contain a 'textarea' call 'title'. I can not figure out how to achieve this
[12:05:36] danielk22: stuartm: I guess I'll need to remove a couple options to make up for adding that one ;] I'm merely annoyed by the animations but Jess talked for about 5 minutes last night about how much she _hates_ them.
[12:06:41] stuartm: danielk22: have you talked to Paul about reverting them?
[12:07:53] stuartm: xavierh: that's not an error, it's not even a warning, it's just a notice – 'title' is optional in that popup
[12:08:10] stuartm: I really don't know why we even print anything to the log in that case
[12:09:17] xavierh: stuartm: warning or error, it is the same, it does not give the correct information to fix it. error are displayed exactly the same way
[12:09:26] stuartm: xavierh: the way that function works (which I really hate btw) prevents a simple solution to displaying the 'container' type in the log message, you'd have to dynamic_cast each possible type to find which cast doesn't fail
[12:09:39] xavierh: :(
[12:11:01] stuartm: xavierh: actually, now that I think about it, in that particular context the container will always be a window/screen, so you could just replace 'container' with 'screen'
[12:11:20] xavierh: ok, so the only solution would be to rewite them ? (I don't understand what the ContainerType is suppose to be or how/where this class/type is defined )
[12:11:20] stuartm: I might rip out UIAssignW or whatever it's called, I'm not exaggerating when I say I hate it
[12:11:46] xavierh: but we still need to know the name, and the name is not in MythUIType
[12:11:59] stuartm: it was originally added against my advice
[12:12:24] xavierh: What would be your way ?
[12:12:24] stuartm: xavierh: the name is in the warning 'exit prompt'
[12:12:30] danielk22: stuartm: no, but he obviously likes them enough to have implemented them. With the general trend toward implementing these things it's good to just have an option to disable them.
[12:12:43] xavierh: no the name (in xml ) is "MythPopupBox"
[12:12:58] xavierh: 'exit prompt' is useless
[12:17:11] stuartm: xavierh: it will have to wait, there's no simple way of providing that information, and I'm sure a themer can recognise that the screen displayed is the popup dialog if they've themed it already ...
[12:19:18] stuartm: I could re-write MythDialogBox to use the old method of connecting up the widgets, then you'd be able to display the name as it appears in the XML
[12:19:28] stuartm: but that's not going to happen for 0.25
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[13:35:38] stichnot: stuartm: any reason why MythUIButtonListItem::SetStatesFromMap doesn't call m_parent->Update() ?
[13:41:48] stuartm: I can't remember if there was a reason, or whether it's an oversight, I note that neither SetTextFromMap() nor SetImageFromMap() call Update()
[13:44:01] stichnot: ok. I don't know yet whether it's necessary, possibly something else I do will trigger it naturally anyway
[13:44:51] stuartm: I guess they should be triggering an update, but right now I'm unable to say for certain, my brain's on holiday
[13:47:45] xavierh: stuartm: that is not a bug, so I was not expecting to change this for 0.25. what don't you like about UIUtilW::Assign and UIUtilE::Assign ?
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[14:17:44] kenni: knightr: Yep, I noticed the character set issue after I comitted the update yesterday, but I wanted to hear from you before I comitted a (permanent or temporary) fix. I briefly looked at it yesterday, and it seems to be caused by the themestrings tool, but it will need further investigation. I'll look at it tonight, push another update including a permanent or temporary (0.25) fix for the character set issue together with the corrected string from Step
[14:18:31] kenni: s/hopefully it/hopefully the theme/
[14:22:55] gigem: danielk22: the popup animations are cute the first few times. after that, though, they do become annoying. i'm forcing myself to leave them alone for a few more days before i change them in my personal branch. don't know yet if i'll try to tweak them to be less annoying or totally rip them out.
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[14:41:50] stuarta: popups are horrible and annoying
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[14:57:30] stichnot: so do you all think I should implement flash/blink support for closed captions? :)
[14:58:33] stuarta: stuartm: does scanning freesat work for you on master? last night i was trying it and got lots of CRC verify failures on 0xc0 (tableid 0x82) which is CAM support before mythtv-setup deadlocked
[14:59:19] danielk22: stichnot: hah! Does anyone actually send that out?
[15:00:39] stuarta: what about hot pink as a colour for CC?
[15:07:02] stichnot: danielk22: the only time I recall seeing blinking was when the data was garbage, and the STB was actually implementing blinking
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[15:20:51] stichnot: Is there a way in the PBB to start an incremental search, other than the key binding?
[15:57:05] xavierh: stuartm: What don't you like in UIUtilE and UIUtilW ? It should probably done in XmlBase, but anything else ?
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[16:02:14] Captain_Murdoch: jpabq-, OK, thanks. I just ran the repackaging script for everything so those got picked up. they'll get updated on the site tonight.
[16:14:26] knightr: kenni, ah, I thought I had read that the problem was in the file bundled file... If the problem is with the themestring tool then we mosly likely need to specify the input and output character set... It's quite possible the problem could be elsewhere though, looks like Qt/C++ is kinda fussy when it comes to interpreting
[16:14:44] knightr: non-ASCII characters in source code.
[16:15:37] knightr: That said, is the character encoded in ISO-8859–1 or UTF-8?
[16:19:48] sphery: knightr: the repo is available at (and/or ), so you can clone and/or browse the tree.
[16:23:15] knightr: sphery, kenni, I checked in the themeinfo.xml file in and it's in UTF-8 so unless it's manipulated before it's put there, it should be in UTF-8 in the repo too...
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[16:34:20] knightr: kenni, sphery, the problem IS indeed the themestringtool program, we feed UTF-8 and we get back cr@p that doesn't look like any valid encoding..
[16:35:08] knightr: We most likely need to specify the input and output character sets, currently it most likely assume something like ASCII or ISO-8859–1...
[16:35:49] knightr: kenni, if you don't have time (or can't for the reason you mentionned...) let me know, I can look at it tonight.
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[16:58:06] stuartm: do the xml files have charset declarations? If so then themestringtools will do the right thing
[16:58:32] stuartm: QT's xml parser obeys the charset defined in the xml
[16:59:01] stuartm: which should look like this – <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
[17:00:36] stuartm: knightr: oh, just remembered that Captain_Murdoch was aware of an issue with his theme downloader scripts changing the encoding when they shouldn't
[17:00:53] stuartm: that's likely to be the problem
[17:04:11] knightr: sphery, stuartm, we have "My speaker supports DTS" (or E-AC-3, DTS-HD, etc..) in the default theme template and in at least one theme, shouldn't that be "My amplifier supports DTS" (E-AC-3, etc..) like in some themes (or we could possibly replace amplifier with audio system..)
[17:07:04] stuartm: xris: channel icon resync script seems to be broken? Returns zero results for each page e.g. wget: Found 0 stations (0 new).
[17:08:40] knightr: stuartm, encoding is ok in though, where is he modifiying it if not there? (I thought we downloaded the themes directly from the repos after we download that file....
[17:08:40] stuartm: audio system is probably best, it's generic enough to match for any possible combination of hardware including things with built in DTS audio support
[17:09:25] stuartm: knightr: best to ask Captain_Murdoch what might be going wrong there
[17:12:18] knightr: stuartm, kenni seems to think the problem is in themestringtool (and he seems to be right about it) and I know he was in communication with Captain_Murdoch about that so I guess its the Capt that told him that.. Anyway Kenni is supposed to look at it tonight and I've offered my help if he can't..
[17:12:53] knightr: (either because of lack of time or because of health reasons..)
[17:13:03] stuartm: knightr: themestringtool uses the same parsing code as mythfrontend
[17:14:15] knightr: stuartm, I know and you and I are partially to blame :) :) :) for that (I submitted a fix to some of this parsing code about 2 years ago and you applied it...)
[17:15:08] stuartm: I should know, I wrote it, if the encoding is being detected wrong in themestringtool then it's also getting it wrong in libmythui, but I doubt that's the case
[17:16:13] knightr: stuartm, looks like themestringtool doesn't know how the characters are encoded and might be changing the encoding... It looks like we feed it UTF-8 and we get something back that doesn't seem to be of any known encoding (not even UTF-16 LE or BE AFAICT)...
[17:17:11] knightr: stuartm, thing is it's the first time we feed it something that's not US-ASCII...
[17:17:31] stuartm: it outputs explicitly outputs utf-8 and will use whatever the declared charset is on input, if the encoding declaration is missing from the xml then it assumes ASCII iirc
[17:18:03] stuartm: are we sure that there's a valid encoding declaration at the top of that file?
[17:18:27] knightr: the themeinfo.xml file does specify UTF-8 as its encoding...
[17:20:22] stuartm: specifically the one that is failing does, or the one you're looking at? A week or two back jpabq- noted an issue with character encoding in that file, adding the declaration fixed it, but maybe kenni has got an old copy somehow?
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[17:25:34] kenni: knightr, stuartm: The issue which Captain_Murdoch looked into, was that the encoding got messed up for the themeinfo.xml file included in, he fixed that one and I verified that it indeed *was* fixed in my checkout from yesterday. I didn't look more into it as it was getting late yesterday.
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[17:29:02] knightr_: kenni, stuartm, Yep, it's indeed right...
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[17:30:08] knightr_: kenni, if for any reasons you can't look at it tonight I could have a go at it tonight...
[17:30:36] knightr_: stuartm, kenni, I need to go now, I was using my lunch break to reply and it's time for me to get back to work (Anybody wants to do some Cognos 8 reporting?  :( :( )
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[17:31:17] ** stuartm disappears **
[17:33:46] knightr_: stuartm, if you think audio system would be preferrable we re-extract the strings from the themes tonight so we could get them then if you decide to change them (they are in the default themes and in Terra...)
[17:34:23] knightr_: ttyl guys..
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[17:51:01] stuartm: xris: seems the regexp is failing, but it's a big old regexp and spotting the error ...
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[18:49:37] stuartm: xris: ok, fixed, they changed from absolute to relative urls for the page links
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[19:36:43] dekarl: stuarta: I get heaps of CRC errors on 0x83 (and sometimes 0x82), too. There are some more cases of packets/sections ending up in the wrong PESPacket / PSIPTable not sure if its DVB-C or -T (likely -C if it is CAM related)
[19:38:23] dekarl: sphery: the intention of my mail to users was to offer a puzzle that does not involve digging deep into QT / MythTV / DVB concepts to do something useful. Well that, and ask for help :D
[19:39:40] sphery: dekarl: right... I just really want the internal scanner to work properly so people don't have to use external tools to work around MythTV
[19:41:24] kenni: stuartm, knightr: I've identified the issue, it is indeed in the themestringstool – the follow simplification fixes the issue:
[19:41:25] dekarl: me too, but given the lack of developerresources(time) with DVB knowledge I'd rather make the external scanner available. See my list, half of the points are about corner cases that need all to be handled vs. one import being fixed
[19:41:29] sphery: and would like to see more people who are affected by issues actually spending time working on solving the problems with our code rather than working to perfect something that won't ever fix our scanner
[19:42:01] sphery: I do understand what you mean about the internal scanner being hard to jump into working on, though
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[19:43:37] dekarl: I'd love to have a unit test framework for the channel and EIT scanner... it really needs it. I have whipping something up like "pass raw EIT through mythutil which outputs XML" and wrapping that in test cases on "the list"... but it'll be a year or two until I get to that point :(
[19:44:02] dekarl: the same could work for the scanner (at least for stuff like testing segmented SDT handling)
[19:44:18] dekarl: but all that is post 0.25 for sure
[19:44:58] kenni: stuartm: Is it ok with you if I push the above change? I have regenerated the all of the strings locally, and it works as expected.
[19:47:23] stuartm: kenni: if you do that it will write utf-16 instead of utf-8, which shouldn't matter too much but the existing code should be working ...
[19:47:59] kenni: hmm
[19:48:24] stuartm: oh wait, no, the patch is correct, we're using QTextStream
[19:48:35] stuartm: so it does the conversion for us
[19:50:52] kenni: good, that was also my conclusion
[19:51:09] stuartm: kenni: might want to add – fdataout.setCodec("UTF-8"); just after the setDevice() call
[19:51:24] stuartm: just to ensure we write utf-8
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[19:52:12] kenni: stuartm: I can do that if you want, but it works without – generating all of the themestrings results in one changed line – the one with the bad encoding
[19:52:53] stuartm: kenni: it works without because QTextStream default to the locale codec, your machine is set to use utf-8, but that may not be true for everyone
[19:53:08] kenni: stuartm: good point
[19:55:38] kenni: stuartm:
[19:56:21] kenni: still works as expected :)
[19:57:55] stuartm: looks good
[19:58:11] kenni: cool, I'll push it, thanks for looking
[19:58:48] stuartm: I think it used to use cout or similar, hence why it was converting to const char*, when it was changed to QTextStream those were obviously missed
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[20:55:08] stuarta: dekarl: that sounds about right
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[21:15:06] stuartm: knightr: if you want to make the 'audio subsystem' change then please go ahead, I'm not going to find a moment to do it tonight
[21:18:24] stuartm: dekarl: the problem with unit tests is that writing thorough tests can be more work than writing the code you're testing, they are a great tool but more practical when you have a huge team of devs to throw at the task
[21:19:18] dekarl: stuarta: I found some more spots to fix, but not easy way to fix it without a shared superclass of PESPacket and PSITable => has to wait until I have more time
[21:20:15] stuarta: there are overlaps of different tableid's with and without CRC?
[21:20:38] dekarl: stuartm: while I agree on the thorough test for everything being quite expensive I still think they are worth it in at least the spot that are hard to test manualy, but easy to test with hand crafted / collected test data
[21:21:47] dekarl: there are packed elementary streams (with or without CRC flag set) which carry the same stream_id as a table has as table_id... hmm, that sounded strange
[21:22:29] dekarl: the problem is that "HasCRC" is a defined bit for PES Packets, but is derived from the tableid for PSI sections.
[21:22:33] stuartm: well if someone wants to create the tests we'll likely be happy to have them :)
[21:22:35] stuarta: the streamid and the tableid should live in different parts of the packet
[21:22:59] stuarta: so we should just rip that apart and fix that?
[21:23:13] stuarta: HasCRC i mean
[21:24:12] dekarl: stuarta, we could make sure that tables/packets end up in the appropriate class by other means, but I couldn't figure out how all this virtual subclassing works
[21:25:23] dekarl: I need to look at the backtraces, but IIRC the tables get stuff into PSITable where some temporary variable get created and somehow the PSIPacket constructor gets called
[21:26:10] stuarta: i've never completely got my head around it
[21:26:35] stuartm: danielk22: . . . er.cpp#L1170 << cppcheck flagged this which certainly looks wrong
[21:27:29] danielk22: stuartm: It is certainly wrong, but I don't know what it should be.
[21:27:41] dekarl: stuarta: see up to frame #3 its in PSIPTable but from there upwards its in PESPacket
[21:28:30] danielk22: stuartm: It's not terribly important though. XDS is analog PSIP used in the US back when we had analog broadcasts.
[21:30:20] stuarta: i'd be inclined to rewrite it eventually
[21:30:28] stuarta: massive rainy day project
[21:30:59] stuarta: we do need to kill off this CRC warning tho
[21:32:20] danielk22: stuarta: I thought I pushed a patch a few weeks ago that got rid of PESPacket use and the HasCRC() problem in the recorders.
[21:33:10] dekarl: danielk22: that might have been my patch for the first 50% of the work
[21:33:28] danielk22: dekarl: could be
[21:33:33] dekarl: back when I first tested the patch I didn't get these heaps of errors, though
[21:34:39] stuarta: danielk22: you did :)
[21:35:07] stuarta: it's the changeset linked from the ticket dekarl just linked to
[21:35:45] danielk22: heh :)
[21:36:44] stuarta: on the bright side, your latest commit fixes a deadlock in the scanner for me
[21:36:45] dekarl: the issue I saw back then is that . . . ables.h#L369 ends up calling the wrong HasCRC
[21:37:36] dekarl: maybe just copying the constructor from the base class instead of calling it in the base class would be all it takes
[21:37:38] stuartm: stuarta: that deadlock has only existed for a couple of weeks :) One of those cases where fixing one bug introduced another
[21:37:58] stuarta: i'm good at breaking things
[21:42:36] ** stuarta wonder where --verbose channelscan went **
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[21:43:27] dekarl: ^- if what I said about copying the constructor from PESPacket to PSIPTable makes sense for you I can try to squeeze writing and testing a patch in this weekend
[21:43:40] wagnerrp: lousy ISP
[21:43:54] wagnerrp: booted me offline and changed my IP address
[21:44:01] ** stuarta re-reads what dekarl wrote **
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[22:10:42] stuartm: wagnerrp: the old one was worn out?
[22:16:20] wagnerrp: i guess
[22:16:40] wagnerrp: its like theyve got a 3–4 month forced cycle or something
[22:16:46] wagnerrp: if you dont naturally go offline during that period, they kick you offline
[22:17:43] ** stuarta hugs his static ip address and /48 ipv6 allocation **
[22:18:47] wagnerrp: ive got a script that sends out one ping only to google from each of half a dozen IPs every 10 minutes
[22:18:54] wagnerrp: just to hold it open
[22:19:05] wagnerrp: but that doesnt seem right...
[22:19:17] wagnerrp: i thought i had to run it a couple times per minute
[22:19:28] wagnerrp: or else my connection would go idle and my IPs get revoked
[22:23:25] stuartm: my ip is mostly static, it only gets reassigned if my cable modem is powered off for a few hours
[22:24:10] stuartm: which in practice means virtually never, last time it was because I was redecorating the room
[22:27:12] stuartm: that said, so long as my dyndns subdomain points at the right IP it really doesn't matter much, I'd even prefer it to change more often for the sake of some privacy from advertising data mining
[22:32:50] kenni: Beirdo: Would it be ok with you if we limit the uPnP subtitle length to 128 (eg. the same as the subtitle field in the database) when we insert the description as a replacement for an empty subtitle field? Currently the length is unlimited, and it breaks uPnP on multiple (all?) recent Western Digital uPnP players. I asked a user to create #10358, which covers the issue. It's a simple fix, which would be nice to have included in 0.25:
[22:44:45] stuarta: oh ffs
[22:45:32] stuarta: i have to hack master because i can and i will run a prod and a dev instance of the backend in parallel on non conflicting ports
[22:45:42] stuarta: on the same machine
[22:46:44] stuarta: arse biscuits
[22:49:44] stuarta: yes i am a special case :)
[22:54:23] stuarta: hah! victory and no hacking required
[22:58:04] dekarl: kenni, FYI I only see "" then the line ends
[22:59:58] kenni: dekarl, Beirdo: Interesting :) I'll try again –
[23:00:50] Beirdo: kenni: I haven't seen problems on my WD uPnP player, but I can't see any reason why we can't chop it at 128 characters if the device requires it. I don't know if we want to do it in all cases or only for that client type thoguh
[23:01:03] kenni: actually, I saw the same thing happened to me earlier today...hmm
[23:01:58] Beirdo: bending our server to suit individual clients doesn't sit well with me, as it could break others (generally)
[23:02:15] Beirdo: this one I think we should be able to pull off though without an issue
[23:02:29] kenni: Beirdo: you could argue that you never should have a title with a length of 128+'s supposed to be a title, not a description
[23:03:02] Beirdo: that's a description, not a titile
[23:03:21] Beirdo: if there is no subtitle, we use the description
[23:03:43] kenni: yep, but we use it as the subtitle
[23:03:51] Beirdo: and if the client doesn't want long strings... what does the spec say... oh right, we don't have the spec :)
[23:03:57] kenni: :)
[23:04:25] Beirdo: I think this is a reasonable workaround, but in general, it rubs me wrong. ;)
[23:05:06] Beirdo: now, if it's only certain client types that require it, we can detect that client type, and only use the workaround for them
[23:06:44] xavierh: stuartm: could you tell me what you don't like with UIUtilW and UIUtilE ?
[23:09:19] kenni: Beirdo: I follow you, but then we need to keep track of future affected client types, rather than giving the user a slightly limited workaround, which should work out-of-the-box on most systems
[23:09:53] stuarta: hmmm, now i need to hack a mythweb-dev instance into php-fpm and nginx
[23:10:47] peitolm: wagnerrp: if you're doing that, do you have the bootp ports open to your client? (the dhcp server will occaisionally send messages to clients that it's issued ip addresses to, to verify it's still in use)
[23:11:50] kenni: Beirdo: And anyway, I wouldn't consider the description->subtitle replacement a beauty solution either ;)
[23:18:59] kenni: knightr: I've updated the themestrings with the encoding fix + a changed string from a git master checkout of Steppes. I guess that was the string you were talking about? If so, feel free to send a mail to -translators (otherwise I'll just do it tomorrow), I'm off to bed now.
[23:25:14] knightr: kenni, (I'm not sure if you're still ther), I'm not sure if you saw the message I exchanged with Stuart about that but I'll probably change speaker for audio system in the default themes and Terra so I'll rerun themestrings one last time...
[23:26:16] knightr: Thank you for the fix, I guess the string was reencoded twice (once explicitly by the totf8() call and the other when it was outputted by QTextStream...
[23:26:54] kenni: knightr: Oh, yeah, I saw that case make sure that you don't loose the Steppes update when you regenerate (the new theme isn't available from the theme downloader yet)
[23:27:27] knightr: argh, ok... Thanks for the warning...
[23:28:37] knightr: kenni, I'm not seeing the fix I am looking for in that latest commit, I'll go check if you committed in earlier...
[23:28:58] stuartm: hmm, so I've got applications other than mythtv writing their logs to /var/log/mythtv/ ... guessing that the example rsyslog config is wrong somehow
[23:31:37] stuartm: xavierh: it's easier for me to re-write it than it is to explain what I don't like about them, but as an example they take something very simple and make it much more complicated looking than it really is, it's hardly economical with LOC
[23:32:09] kenni: knightr: Okay, I was also wondering why you wanted to have that particular string included anyway, there's nothing in there to translate
[23:32:10] xavierh: stuartm: so you don't like the use of template then ?
[23:32:23] kenni: knightr: But i don't see any other changes at
[23:32:35] stuartm: and it's entirely out of character and style with the rest of the code in libmythui (lot's of Cisms, wrappers and unnecessary namespace stuff)
[23:32:46] xavierh: stuartm: in this particular case
[23:33:36] knightr: kenni, No videos in library,or no files found. If you have configured a video directory,press \"M\" (or
[23:33:59] stuartm: xavierh: I don't see that it offers any benefit here, except to obfuscate
[23:34:11] xavierh: stuartm: I do agree
[23:34:19] stuartm: that was badly worded, obfuscation is not a benefit
[23:34:29] xavierh: I got it
[23:34:34] kenni: knightr: Ok, but there's no such changes yesterday on the master branch..I'm wondering if I'm using the wrong source
[23:35:31] knightr: kenni, John ask the Capt to make the fix available so it must be somewhere... I could fix it manually if I knew how he fixed it but I don't know what he did...
[23:35:39] knightr: s/ask/asked
[23:35:44] stuartm: knightr: fwiw, we should avoid stuff like "press M", it assumes two things, the user is using a keyboard and that the user hasn't reconfigured their keys
[23:36:07] xavierh: stuartm: anyway I have done something to suit my need If you do rewrite it, could you keep this in mind ?
[23:36:29] stuartm: xavierh: I'll try
[23:37:15] knightr: stuartm, might want to tell that to John, I only asked him to fix those missing spaces...
[23:37:40] stuartm: jpabq-: ^^
[23:37:48] knightr: stuartm, and I saw worse, for one of the themes somebody give the path to the themes which might not be the same for everybody....
[23:37:59] knightr: s/give/gave
[23:38:27] stuartm: knightr: if we can make a list of that sort of thing then we can fix as much as possible for 0.26
[23:39:26] kenni: knightr: It doesn't help much to fix these manually if they are not used in the theme ;) Anyway, probably best to wait for the theme to be available through the downloader, so we can see if it actually is missing in the theme or if the change just has been pushed somewhere else then MythTV-Themes
[23:39:30] knightr: stuartm, I was asking sphery recently what was the best way to contact our themers for issues such as these...
[23:40:03] knightr: kenni, I know but if I knew how he fixed it I could have fixed it so it matched what he will use...
[23:40:37] Beirdo: kenni: anyways, limiting to 128 will likely do fine for now :)
[23:41:09] kenni: knightr: Ahh, it seems like he forgot Steppes...the string change has only been pushed to Steppes-narrow
[23:41:13] kenni: jpabq- ^^
[23:41:32] knightr: kenni, we don't include Steppes-narrrow?
[23:41:50] kenni: we could
[23:41:51] knightr: (I guess we didn't add it since we assumed it would have the same strings...()
[23:41:56] kenni: exactly
[23:42:29] kenni: that would be a quick fix, I'll just do it and see how it goes
[23:42:44] knightr: kenni, yep...
[23:43:56] knightr: kenni, anyway something tells me we will add to add a few new strings anyway, I probably didn't catch all the places where there are untranslatable strings and if there are any one those, they should be fixed...
[23:44:07] knightr: we will have to add...
[23:45:12] knightr: (our translation is not yet complete so I couldn't catch all of them. Some of them I caught by looking at the code but I didn't browse through all of it...)
[23:48:30] kenni: Beirdo: Ok, thanks, I'll push the fix then...I don't think we should prioritize a "feature" which works for some people (unlimited title/subtitle length), if it breaks uPnP for others.
[23:49:24] Beirdo: well, I see it as breaking a feature (unlimited length) because some other clients are improperly limiting it :)
[23:49:29] Beirdo: but either way...
[23:49:58] Beirdo: We can just say we are limiting it to 128 for maximum compatibility and leave it
[23:50:25] kenni: yep
[23:50:36] Beirdo: not having the actual spec which tells us the actual limit, it's hard to say who's right, who's wrong
[23:51:56] knightr: kenni, I need to go eat something, I'm starving (it's 7:51 PM (or 19:51) here...) I'll come back in 10 minutes or so, let me know how it goes please...
[23:52:43] TheAsp: I'm trying to get firewirerecorder to use more of the functions from dtvrecorder. What is the best *recorder to use as reference?
[23:53:34] Beirdo: I'm trying to make my dog more like a cat. What's the best animal to use as a reference?
[23:53:58] kenni: knightr: I'm going to wait, logically Stepped-narrow hasn't been added to the downloader yet either, so that would be another manual extraction. Let's just wait for the servers to sync and do it there.
[23:54:56] TheAsp: Beirdo: Well, it looks like most recorders inherit a bunch of functions from dtvrecorder
[23:55:13] TheAsp: So it seems natural to want to use the same ones, since they do what I need, and firewirerecorder does not
[23:56:22] Beirdo: not sure if there's enough commonality there for that to even make sense
[23:56:57] ** stuarta tries to figure out a new an ingenious way to torture php-fpm **
[23:57:17] Beirdo: hehe
[23:57:19] TheAsp: Well, I am trying to use the ts processing functions
[23:57:36] stuarta: well it does need bending to my will :)
[23:57:38] TheAsp: since I have mpeg4 off my cable box
[23:59:32] Captain_Murdoch: kenni, there is an update to Steppes-* that is not on the download site yet. waiting on the FTP mirror to resync tonight...
[23:59:48] sphery: stuartm: On the wiki page, it talks about advantages and disadvantages of each of the 2 approaches presented (as well as assumptions for successfully using them)... One prevents any non-MythTV logging from appearing in /var/log/mythtv, the other allows logging all MythTV application data, regardless of app name, to /var/log/mythtv.

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