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Current users (91):

aloril, Anssi, anykey_, Beirdo, brfransen, brtb, CaCtus491, Captain_Murdoch, cesman, Chutt, clever, coling, coop, Cougar, damaltor, danielk22, Dave123, davide, dblain, dekarl, dlblog, ElmerFudd, foobum, foxbuntu, ghoti, gregL, GreyFoxx, Guest17858, GuySoft, highzeth, ikrabbe, J-e-f-f-A, j-rod|afk, jams, jarle, jcarlos, jerry_, joe_, joki, jpabq, jstenback, justinh, jwhite, k-man, kenni, knightr, kormoc, kurre2, kwmonroe, laga, lolcat`, mag0o, mrand, MythBuild, MythLogBot, mzanetti, natanojl, noahric, peitolm, poptix, purserj, rhpot1991, rsiebert, skd5aner, Slasher`, sphery, sraue, stuarta, stuartm, superm1, sutula, taylorr, tester68, tgm4883, TheAsp, ThisNewGuy1, tomimo, tris, Unhelpful, vallor, wagnerrp, wahrhaft, wseltzer, xavierh, xavierh_, XDS2010_, xris, Yancho, ybot_, zCougar, _charly_
Friday, March 9th, 2012, 00:02 UTC
[00:02:58] xavierh_: stuartm: I am done with Terra
[00:09:24] sphery: stuartm: I'll see about throwing a patch together and try to test it with various themes and see if I can find any problems
[00:10:23] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, some food for thought... If mythbackend had it's own file (which would make sense too) which translation file would "own" the translated strings in the libraries (many of which are shared by both the frontend and backend)?
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[00:33:15] stichnot: Slight WAF hit on the "frontend standby" screen. May I suggest allowing more keys than EXIT (and jump points) to leave standby?
[00:34:14] jya: how many "redirections" do we allow when downloading TV channel icons with URL retrieved through mythfilldatabase ?
[00:34:59] xavierh_: stichnot: I do enable the frontend standby ? Never seen this new feature
[00:36:03] stichnot: xavierh_: I didn't understand your question...
[00:36:57] stichnot: and
[00:38:54] sphery: stichnot: you may be interested to read (regarding your mention of text in settings help)
[00:39:32] knightr: xavierh_, what's a vShare directory? (in MythArchive...)
[00:40:33] stichnot: sphery: I need to reread that more closely.
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[00:42:33] xavierh_: stichnot: I meant "Is this feature (standby) enabled by default ?", I never saw the standby screen
[00:42:47] stichnot: But just browsing through the settings code, those new/updated help texts are longer than "normal", and I'll bet the translations are even longer. I like being extra helpful, but only if we can make it fit on most users' screens.
[00:43:20] xavierh_: knightr: Don't know.
[00:43:29] knightr: xavierh, . . . 2-03-09.diff line 29 ...
[00:43:40] stichnot: xavierh_: yes, the default standby time is 90 minutes
[00:43:54] knightr: looks like a possibly typo to me...
[00:44:02] knightr: s/possibly/possible...
[00:44:56] knightr: (LOL I do a typo while talking about a possible typo... :) )
[00:45:24] jya: shepherd listing grabber now properly provides the URL to the icons, however, those fail to download due to "too many redirect" but the URL looks fine to me, curl, wget too, url is for example: . . . myth/abc.png
[00:45:44] xavierh_: knightr: yes, typo. I remove MythArchive in the label as it is redundant therefor not needed
[00:45:56] xavierh_: Sorry for the transtation team :)
[00:46:03] xavierh_: Sorry for the translation team :)
[00:46:39] sphery: stichnot: Yeah, that makes sense--but first thing we need to do is make sure we have about the same amount of room on the screen regardless of theme size (the we can find out what actually fits). Right now, if you test with Arclight (and probably Steppes), you'll see that the text fits fine.
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[00:46:55] stichnot: sphery: I wouldn't want to make the help text any smaller. But in most cases it wouldn't hurt to allocate more space to the help text area.
[00:47:31] knightr: xavierh, no problem, it's not committed yet so it's not yet accessible to the translators...
[00:47:48] stichnot: I'll try looking with Arclight.
[00:48:25] sphery: right, I'm just saying that the text size is not consistent at this point... it's dependent on the theme's baseres (i.e. the size of the screen that theme author used to define the the theme position/sizes/...)
[00:48:50] sphery: so if you use a theme with a higher baseres, that makes the font smaller, right now.
[00:49:31] knightr: xavierh, stichnot usually a translated text is longer than an English text. There are exceptions but you can usually expect a sentence in another language to be longer (and sometimes by a lot) than a sentence in English...
[00:50:21] stichnot: yeah, we need more English text that translates to idioms like "schadenfreude" :)
[00:50:58] wagnerrp: jya: THATS what ive been trying to remember all day
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[00:51:10] wagnerrp: the python installer isnt properly removing scripts on an 'uninstall'
[00:51:20] wagnerrp: your distclean commit finally made it click
[00:52:23] knightr: stichnot, google is giving me glee for that German word...
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[00:52:42] knightr: (at least that's what I assumed it was and Google seemed to confirm it...)
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[00:53:55] jya: wagnerrp: yep, it can be troublesome trying to find when a compile file, only to find is a damned obsolete header that is the cause
[00:54:28] sphery: jya: perhaps an SSL/TLS issue (like Qt-WebKit isn't able to verify the CA's authority, so it fails) and we give an incorrect/misleading error message?
[00:54:44] jya: sphery: that could be yes
[00:55:54] stichnot: knightr: I would translate as "taking pleasure in others' misfortunes"
[00:56:23] jya: damn… another Qt bug… so annoying their makefile
[00:56:45] sphery: I'm not sure how to import CAs into Qt-Webkit, otherwise, it would be easy to test that theory...
[00:57:58] knightr: stichnot, gee, we (my main translation team) need some of those words... (-;
[01:00:40] knightr: (A translated sentence in French is usually a lot longer than the original English sentence...)
[01:00:50] sphery: jya: for that matter, I'm not sure MythDownloadManager has support for SSL/TLS, right now... Captain_Murdoch would know.
[01:02:03] jya: when I worked for HP in their marketing centre, the rule to calculate spaces and all was to always take the German translations as basis
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[01:03:52] Captain_Murdoch: knightr, yeah, I think that's part of the reason we made it use the mythfrontend file(s) for now.
[01:04:14] Captain_Murdoch: sphery, I'm not sure about Qt. I do pass https:// URLs if those are passed to MDM.
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[01:18:53] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, I guess our best bet would be to create a new file called something like MythCore (or something similar) and load it for both Mythbackend and Mythfrontend (but for MythFrontend in addition to the MythFrontend one). It would not be much of a problem to extract from the MythFrontend translation everything that belongs to the libs or the web setup so no work the translators put in their translation would be loss...
[01:20:37] Captain_Murdoch: yeah, we can figure out what's best to do as we proceed with removing mythtv-setup in favor of the web setup.
[01:21:01] Captain_Murdoch: we can make it work without incurring a bunch of extra work for translators.
[01:26:28] knightr: yep, the hardest part would most likely create those .pro files and contacting the translators (like we did when MythVideo was merged into core) to make sure nobody lose work then have not sent us yet... Lloading more than one translation at the same time is supported by Qt (we already do it)) and extracting the stuff from one translation to put in the other would be done by copying the mythfrontend files into the new files. Final "cleanup" wou
[01:26:28] knightr: ld be done by running lupdate...
[01:27:26] knightr: (the cleanup wouldn't be complete though until we ran lupdate with -no-obsolete (which we don't suggest people do unless their translations are complete...)
[01:27:54] knightr: s/then/they
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[01:34:31] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, BTW, I no longer have theme problems, I seem to be unable to download them now (I haven't tried today though...)
[01:38:08] knightr: (oops, that sentence sounded weird... I mean I no longer have the problem I had with the decoding of the zip file because, for some unknown reason, it looks like I am unable to download them... I guess something must have gotten corrupted in my "theme cache" or something like that...
[01:44:53] Captain_Murdoch: you can remove ~/.mythtv/tmp/ and it should re-download the
[01:45:05] Captain_Murdoch: the index file that is...
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[01:47:52] knightr: just did it, I'll go try it... Thank you!
[01:50:10] Captain_Murdoch: I'll check it out later, I verified I can get the theme index but need to back out a local patch before I can truly test downloading and installing a theme.
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[02:14:21] knightr: Captain_Murdoch, it works now... The only thing weird I found is that, at least for some themes, I had to "refresh the list of downloadable themes" (or something like that) to get the list of all themes... I could be wrong but I have a feeling that if I didn't do that I was only seeing themes which had already been downloaded..
[02:14:22] wagnerrp: danielk22: im seeing the same behavior as #10414, half a core for a HDHR recording
[02:14:31] wagnerrp: if you want me to take a look, or get some logs
[02:18:46] danielk22: wagnerrp: Can you run an oprofile? I'm not seeing that kind of CPU usage here. I patched the only thing that looked like a possible culprit.
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[02:20:12] wagnerrp: think i can run it on freebsd? says "a system profiler for linux"
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[02:20:29] wagnerrp: if not, give me a couple hours and ill shift it to a linux backend for testing
[02:20:34] wagnerrp: its being used for recording currently
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[02:22:02] wagnerrp: im currently running 52 or so, its a couple commits past the one that closed the ticket
[02:37:44] danielk22: wagnerrp: Can I assume the high CPU usage is on FreeBSD then?
[02:37:58] wagnerrp: yes
[02:38:47] wagnerrp: but half a core per recording, on a different processor
[02:38:53] wagnerrp: seems an unlikely coincidence
[02:39:01] wagnerrp: like theres some busy loop in there somewhere
[02:39:45] wagnerrp: on second thought, theyre both 3.3GHz phenom IIs, so maybe it is a coincidence
[03:07:02] Captain_Murdoch: knightr, ok, thanks. sphery reported something like that issue with some themes appearing to only show local themes. I'll look into that.
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[04:14:14] Captain_Murdoch: knightr, I was able to reproduce the issue mentioned above but am not sure why it's happening. I'll look into it further.
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[05:29:27] xris: Beirdo: rackspace needs to move the SD machines to different hardware. means about 5 mins of downtime (if all goes well). any preference for when this happens?
[05:35:36] Beirdo: Not in particular, I guess when we are normally awake so we can restart things that aren't automatic
[05:37:03] xris: how close are we to having mail running properly on alcor?
[05:37:25] Beirdo: AFAIK, it's there
[05:39:00] xris: ah, ok
[05:39:10] xris: anyway, now an ok time to move the stuff at rackspace?
[05:39:45] xris: well, robert just kicked it off...
[05:40:08] Beirdo: I guess it will do :)
[05:40:08] Beirdo: hehe
[05:40:15] xris: NOTICE: small downtime on stuff while the VM moves hardware at Rackspace.
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[06:13:43] ** xris gets into this whole HTML5 app thing and wonders how much work it'd be to just rewrite mythweb in pure javascript.  ;) **
[06:14:41] wagnerrp: s/work/pain/
[06:16:32] xris: actually, been looking into stuff like boilerplate.js. it's basically rails written for javascript. pretty impressive.
[06:17:01] Beirdo: yech
[06:17:19] Beirdo: am I the only one who'd rather have server stuff run server-side?
[06:17:24] xris: doesn't work so well for something like mythweb, though, where you have potential cross-domain issues.
[06:22:03] sphery: xris: wagnerrp wrote a little PHP module for mythweb that allows it to proxy requests to the backend services API stuff--specifically to get around the cross-domain issues involved with trying to use the backend directly from JavaScript served by MythWeb. I had hoped to figure out how to integrate it with the log viewer and get it in before feature freeze, but didn't get it done.
[06:23:16] sphery: Someone on the list was asking for JSON-P support in services API, but wagnerrp and I both thought that sounded like a back hack (and dangerous) versus letting the "exposed" app proxy some portion of services API functionality
[06:24:15] xris: sphery: yeah, I know it's easy enough to do Wouldn't actually be that hard to just do it all within the backend and proxy via apache or nginx
[06:24:45] xris: esp since I assume dblain already has javascript versions of most/all of the API queries in his xml test code
[06:26:18] sphery: yeah, I still want a "mythweb", but as a proxy for backend services (and potentially for skinning/theming), though because I don't want to expose all the functionality available through the backend services API to the Internet
[06:26:55] sphery: there's no way I'm opening up that whole port's functionality to the 'net (regardless of apache security settings)
[06:27:01] xris: no reply to the 0.26 schedule email thread. /me tries to poke it back to life
[06:27:19] xris: sphery: good point
[06:27:28] xris: forgot that we hadn't locked it down.  :)
[06:28:00] xris: hmm. scotch ale malts mixed with belgian yeast/spices… very odd.
[06:28:04] wagnerrp: sphery: dont trust digest authentication?
[06:28:43] sphery: hehe, not at all :)
[06:29:51] xris: honestly, I think the best option would be to rewrite mythweb as a flask/wsgi app. and put a small wsgi server into the backend webserver process.. eventually also porting all of the setup service stuff to python so it's in one place
[06:30:24] xris: but we'll see where my opinions go in a few months now that I'm back working on a java project at work. maybe I'll want to replace everything with java by then.  ;)
[06:30:38] sphery: hehe, users would love that
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[07:37:58] Beirdo: MythBuild: force build master-linux-64bit now
[07:37:59] MythBuild: build #3341 forced
[07:37:59] MythBuild: I'll give a shout when the build finishes
[07:38:11] Beirdo: I just installed the libcdio* libs
[07:42:55] MythBuild: Hey! build master-linux-64bit #3341 is complete: Success [build successful]
[07:42:55] MythBuild: Build details are at . . . /builds/3341
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[08:04:15] xris: Beirdo: ok, just asked OSU for a DNS zone dump.. we can hopefully begin moving this stuff tomorrow
[08:05:42] Beirdo: cool
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[08:50:18] stuartm: stichnot: any key should leave standby if we enter it automatically, if that's not working it's a bug
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[10:53:37] stuartm: jya: are those icons failing to download on a linux backend? i.e. it's not a missing or broken ssl dep on OSX?
[10:53:56] jya: hi stuarm
[10:54:04] jya: the error was on my linux backend
[11:01:25] stuartm: hmm, ok we're using HttpComms there, I wonder if MythDownloadManager would do any better
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[11:11:18] stuartm: jya: can you test ?
[11:12:16] jya: stuartm: unfortunately, I'm not home right now, I'll be back on Monday evening; I took the wrong laptop charger which doesn't help.. have about 30 minutes of battery left
[11:12:46] jya: though, the people have shepherd are now outputting a http URL instead
[11:15:04] stuartm: ok, I can test it myself by crafting an xmltv file pointing at https addresses
[11:20:42] jya: very weird.. I've recompiled 0.24 to track a problem someone mentioned to me; i get no video display: audio and a grey screen.. nothing else
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[12:03:09] xavierh: stuartm: Don't know if you have seen my patch for Terra. but I will stop there. It's hard work :(
[12:03:45] xavierh: there is too many theme, creating a new theme should be simpler.
[12:03:53] xavierh: there is too many screens, creating a new theme should be simpler.
[12:04:07] xavierh: more standard stuff
[12:05:55] stuartm: xavierh: I tend to agree, it's become a little worse in recent months with more and more new screens/popups added which undid some of the work done to reduce the number of screens during the mythui port
[12:06:58] stuartm: thanks for the patch, it's saved me a lot of time :)
[12:07:51] xavierh: stuartm: I don't have any recodring so I could not see all the screen, but I have done the obvious. Try to keep your spirit :)
[12:10:35] xavierh: stuartm: I was thinking to standardise window with a optionnal title textarea wich if set would display a titlegroup group or something. So we would not have to define again and again for each window
[12:10:40] stuartm: if I started my own fork it would strip out a lot of the 'fringe' features, many of the scheduling screens, most of the settings screens and 2 of the mythvideo 'views'
[12:10:57] xavierh: s/wich/which
[12:11:02] stuartm: I'd merge together some things like the mythmusic 'import' screen with the cd ripping screen
[12:11:18] xavierh: stuartm: not you as well :)
[12:12:14] xavierh: btw, what the point of the default theme and default-wide as they are not useable ?
[12:12:29] stuartm: xavierh: I say 'if', I don't plan to do it, but I won't rule it out either, cutting the frontend down to be more user friendly would be fantastic
[12:12:43] xavierh: I have seen the 'if' :)
[12:12:55] stuartm: xavierh: they are fallbacks, shown when a screen is missing from a theme
[12:13:43] xavierh: Would it not be better to have a default for fallback which can be used as well ?
[12:13:56] stuartm: and when I say 'user-friendly' I mean for the vast majority of current and potential users, vs 'power-user friendly'
[12:15:47] stuartm: xavierh: hmm, maybe, some people have discussed that I don't know that I have a strong opinion on it – except that the current default/default-wide are definitely not good enough to be a theme in their own right
[12:16:25] xavierh: agrre with this. I still have to do the recording for my wife. Would be nice to have some template for recording rule so she could say record 'movie' or record 'serie' without having to know what a storage group is ...
[12:17:07] stuartm: xavierh: heh, that's in the power-user category, most people don't use specific storage groups for different recordings
[12:17:38] xavierh: stuartm: The default theme is ugly. For me the default them should be simple, clear and well done so themer can be inspire by its implementation
[12:18:21] stuartm: xavierh: and bland enough that it works as a fallback no matter what the style of the chosen theme
[12:18:59] xavierh: yep, and have it useable make it easier to check if it is complete
[12:19:34] xavierh: I think sphery tried to do a tool to check completeness of a theme, don't know if he give up or not.
[12:20:01] stuartm: fwiw, one of the tasks I've never got around to is an xsd for screens, so you can validate a theme, see what's missing or broken
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[12:47:38] k-man: i still think that some sort of templating too coudl be of use for writing themes
[12:48:11] k-man: i started using TT to work on my theme.
[12:48:27] k-man: s/too/tool
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[13:12:00] wagnerrp: stuartm: does it seem like the mailing lists never came back up after the server restart last night?
[13:12:15] wagnerrp: ive not received any new email
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[13:22:44] xavierh: k-man:TT ?
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[13:36:02] stuartm: wagnerrp: I did wonder why I wasn't seeing any mail, I didn't know the server had been restarted
[13:36:51] stuartm: k-man: isn't templating what the inheritance and group stuff allows?
[13:38:20] stuartm: wagnerrp: I've just started mailman, it wasn't running
[13:39:10] stuartm: it makes me wonder what else didn't come up properly
[13:40:41] stuartm: I've started receiving mailing list posts, so ...
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[14:36:59] wagnerrp: stuartm: rackspace had to move SD's server for some reason
[14:37:06] wagnerrp: and since were virtually hosted there...
[14:38:59] stuartm: I'm not sure things are alright, an hour after restarting mailman it's still using 100% cpu, the backlog of mail shouldn't be that big
[14:45:29] wagnerrp: 16hrs and no one seems opposed to adding in the wait loop
[14:45:43] wagnerrp: im tempted to commit, but id rather have a go-ahead from someone senior
[14:50:08] stichnot: stuartm: I just tried setting the frontend idle timeout to 1 minute, and it's now responding to remote control button presses. I don't know what was going on yesterday.
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[15:03:57] stuartm: I think the issue with mailman is that a loop was created, the list send admin mail to list-admin, which forwards to the sydadmin list, but list-admin isn't subscribed, so it gets a mail back warning it that it's not subscribed – list-admin issues a reply to the reply and well it all goes downhill from there
[15:08:50] Captain_Murdoch: wagnerrp, I'd be fine with the wait loop, but would prefer a second opinion from someone like Daniel. I think that the new listening logic could potentially cause lots of users reports of broken systems because their system doesn't bring up IPs right away, so I'd support putting the fix into 0.25.
[15:09:09] wagnerrp: danielk22: ^^^
[15:09:31] Captain_Murdoch: and s/second/third/ since Beirdo already replied on-list. :)
[15:10:12] Captain_Murdoch: I'd rather have it in now than a 0.25.1
[15:13:01] stuartm: right, a fix definitely should go in now, but I've not looked at this specific fix so I can't sign off on it just yet
[15:18:45] stuartm: xris, Beirdo: I'm redirecting list-admin to /dev/null for now, that seems to be working but it's taking it's time to work through a huge backlog of circular mail and discard the undeliverable messages
[15:20:38] stuartm: fwiw, the admin on sysadmin was also  – so every post from list-admin was held for moderation generating two or more emails to list-admin which were directed to sysadmin ... it was an expontential shit-storm of email
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[15:24:09] danielk22: wagnerrp: I think the wait loop is an acceptable solution, but I'd much rather fix it by binding to Any or alternatively by periodically checking for new interfaces and binding them.
[15:26:06] wagnerrp: the latter wouldnt be all that difficult
[15:26:31] wagnerrp: scan for changes maybe once per minute
[15:26:51] wagnerrp: if there is a change, trigger a re-listen on all in-use serverpools
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[15:27:17] wagnerrp: i was planning on adding that for the web setup stuff in 0.26, although it would have been manually triggered
[15:27:40] GuySoft: stuarta, hey, about this bug, do you need any more information to fix it?:
[15:28:35] danielk22: wagnerrp: Why is binding to any a problem? It's not like we allow the user to bind to any particular address anyway...
[15:31:05] danielk22: Couldn't we bind to QHostAddress::Any and QHostAddress::AnyIPv6 and call it a day?
[15:32:13] jams: danielk22- any other info/next steps I can help with for the analog tv problem?
[15:32:33] wagnerrp: i guess its more personal preference than anything else
[15:33:01] wagnerrp: ive never really liked the idea of everything listening everywhere, especially when the first-party stuff will only ever try to connect using the addresses listed in the database
[15:33:16] danielk22: jams: Yeah, you said this affects the latest fixes/0.24 too? If you could isolate the breakage to a commit there it would help.
[15:33:47] peitolm: isn't there an event system you can listen to, to be notified of interface changes?
[15:34:27] jams: danielk22- ok I will see if the problem is in .24 or not. The ticket mentioned it, but I never saw it(but I didn't test that much either)
[15:35:04] wagnerrp: peitolm: network manager will send out signals over dbus
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[15:35:13] wagnerrp: but that assumes people are using networkmanager
[15:35:39] danielk22: which is a terrible assumption.. ;]
[15:35:43] jams: yeah it is
[15:35:52] jams: i wouldn't use it
[15:36:21] peitolm: wagnerrp: isn't network manager a gui app?
[15:36:29] wagnerrp: yes
[15:36:31] peitolm: i thought there was a kernel system, like inotify
[15:37:02] wagnerrp: i thought inotify was just for the filesystem
[15:38:05] peitolm: yes, but the keyword in that sentance was like
[15:38:59] danielk22: wagnerrp: Lets just bind to Any and AnyIPv6. Sometimes simple is good.
[15:39:50] peitolm: hmm, libevent watching /proc/net/dev my work
[15:39:58] peitolm: s/my/might/
[15:40:08] peitolm: on linux, on freebsd i think there' kqueue and stiff
[15:41:32] peitolm: i clearly can't type today
[15:41:59] stuartm: listening on all interfaces is the simplest solution, and the reason firewalls exist
[15:42:55] peitolm: but won't notify you of changes if you want to rescan?
[15:43:15] peitolm: nothing stopping you doing both i suppose
[15:44:08] stuartm: Beirdo, xris: ok list-admin now points to until we can work out a fix, I've set the expiry for moderated messages for sysadmin to 1 day (the shortest period available) to clear the decks, the pending list is currently so long that it's unable to render the moderation page so that I can delete immediately
[15:46:17] stuartm: 24 hours from now we should be clear – meanwhile, apologies to Chris for making him take the brunt but he used to be the admin for all these lists so it seemed like the best option
[15:47:04] stuartm: besides which, I believe it was Chris' configuration which lead to this in the first place so call it karma? ;)
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[16:03:10] xavierh: :D
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[17:04:22] xavierh: stuartm: I was thinking of something like this to standardise the tile in a window: &
[17:05:16] danielk22 (danielk22!~danielk@ has joined #mythtv
[17:11:58] xavierh: s/tile/title
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[17:36:49] Beirdo: stuartm: oh crap, what a mess :) Certainly something that needs fixing :)
[17:37:07] Beirdo: thanks for starting the untangling of said gordian knot
[17:48:48] stuartm: Beirdo: having pointed list-admin elsewhere (initially /dev/null) the load on the server dropped dramatically and with that done really the only remaining 'issue' is that the number of posts held for moderation on sysadmin is (or was) very high – that might have been resolved already, I'm not sure how often mailman purges itself
[17:51:01] Beirdo: not sure either off hand, but once I'm at work, I'll take a quick look, I think there's a way to tell it to flush that queue
[17:51:35] Beirdo: nothing like mailbombing ourselves to oblivion ;)
[17:52:53] Beirdo: oh nice, and Cox has us blacklisted
[17:52:56] Beirdo: idiots
[17:53:18] stuartm: Beirdo: you can flush it via the web interface usually, but that same page also displays all the queued emails and it times out trying to load it
[17:54:41] Beirdo: heheh, ooooh
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[18:18:53] ikrabbe: hey, compiling origin/master I get a missing file "libavcodec/x86/dsputil_h264_template_mmx.c"
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[18:19:02] ikrabbe: maybe some old deps?
[18:20:35] wagnerrp: i dont have that file either
[18:20:46] wagnerrp: sounds like you changed branches and never distcleaned
[18:20:55] wagnerrp: so youve got old Makefiles laying around
[18:21:01] ikrabbe: yes, that might be the problem
[18:21:07] ikrabbe: I just reconfigured
[18:21:28] ikrabbe: now I will start on fixes/0.24 with distclean
[18:21:45] ikrabbe: later I might try the master branch again
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[18:34:01] ikrabbe: hmm, I reinstalled some packages in the system
[18:34:46] ikrabbe: now mythfrontend runs again over both screens (I have two, one per HDMI, one laptop screen)
[18:35:58] ikrabbe: desktop video mode = 3280x1050
[18:36:04] ikrabbe: how can I override that?
[18:38:32] Beirdo: wagnerrp: DefaultBroadcastIPv4 will be returning Any (
[18:38:36] Beirdo: that sounds wrong
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[18:40:57] wagnerrp: well Qt's QHostAddress::Broadcast ( isnt right either
[18:41:15] Beirdo: it's more right than Any for a broadcast :)
[18:41:31] Beirdo: at least it's a broadcast address (even if the wrong one)
[18:41:55] Beirdo: what do we broadcast anyways?
[18:42:16] wagnerrp: the only thing we use broadcast for right now is the mythmessage stuff
[18:42:22] Beirdo: ahh
[18:42:30] wagnerrp: so basically, its telling it to listen on twice
[18:42:49] wagnerrp: which now that i think about it, that may cause problems
[18:42:55] wagnerrp: one listen blocking the next
[18:42:59] Beirdo: we shouldn't have to listen for broadcasts specifically
[18:43:21] Beirdo: unless I'm just caffeine-deprived :)
[18:43:27] wagnerrp: however, mythui/mythudplistener.cpp is currently set up to allow failures
[18:43:33] Beirdo: anyways, yeah, make sure that will do what ya want :)
[18:43:34] wagnerrp: one failed listen wont bring down the whole server
[18:43:40] Beirdo: cool
[18:43:52] wagnerrp: it was set up that way back when we were using, which would always fail
[18:44:21] Beirdo: for 99.9% of machines, yeah
[18:44:22] Beirdo: heh
[18:44:42] Beirdo: if your mythbox is PPP-connected (directly), it might work
[18:44:57] wagnerrp: i still want to switch it back to using select IP addresses
[18:45:04] wagnerrp: but ill hold off until 0.26 for that
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[18:45:12] wagnerrp: and i think i actually want to do it a bit differently
[18:45:26] Beirdo: OK. I don't get why it was switched back, but as long as it WORKS, meh :)
[18:45:29] wagnerrp: use the web setup, enumerate a list of all IPs, and let the user select multipls
[18:45:36] wagnerrp: (or a checkbox that listens all)
[18:45:52] ikrabbe: I really don't get that size calculations
[18:46:29] wagnerrp: it was switched back to resolve the issue of machines changing their network configurations after mythtv has done its initial configuration
[18:47:05] wagnerrp: as a simpler alternative to the wait loop i had posted yesterday
[18:47:16] wagnerrp: ikrabbe: there is no size calculation, it just runs full screen
[18:47:20] wagnerrp: whatever that happens to be
[18:47:56] ikrabbe: I can't get the display right
[18:48:01] wagnerrp: if you want something different, use --geometry, or configure it in appearances, or run the screen setup wizard
[18:48:03] ikrabbe: it was better yesterday
[18:48:15] wagnerrp: however this is a user support question, in the development channel
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[18:50:49] ikrabbe: ok, I will try other settings, but I have tried anything I can think of... I will discuss this further on the user channel, maybe it just solves when I have the new build online
[18:53:25] ikrabbe: I had this problem several times before...
[18:54:15] wagnerrp: this "problem" is just one of configuration, and its behavior has not changed in several releases
[18:54:22] wagnerrp: ill be happy to explain it in #mythtv-users
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[18:57:52] pheld: the last commit (23f3e6ff07fc80d4c4f95729c3f782707a326eb7 ip-addr select change) doesn't work on my backend which has both ipv4 and ipv6 active. with this in place the backend gets nowhere and doesn't set up listen on any port/proto/addr.
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[19:40:46] stuartm: ikrabbe: use twinview and not xinerama, select the screen to use under the appearance settings ("Display on Screen" and "Monitor Aspect Ratio")
[19:41:38] wagnerrp: hes using randr
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[20:25:46] k-man: stuartm, yes
[20:26:36] stuartm: yes?
[20:27:01] k-man: stuartm, but using some kind of template tool, you can do things like set a variable for a position and all through the theme, refer to the veriable, and set postitions relative to it
[20:27:36] k-man: or for instance, calculate a position to be x% of the width of the theme. then you could generate a theme for different resolutions using your template
[20:27:36] stuartm: I'm just using groups for that
[20:27:54] k-man: stuartm, i have to admit that I'm not theme expert
[20:28:17] k-man: so maybe i've missed some features of the themeing engine
[20:28:40] stuartm: a whole nest of groups, based of a couple of groups defined in base.xml, it's actually working out very well indeed
[20:28:42] k-man: should i post bugs in the os-x packger script on trac?
[20:28:54] k-man: stuartm, thats good to hear
[20:31:34] k-man: ah i should really have a nother stab at themeing
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[21:50:17] wagnerrp: well that was a fun experiment...
[21:57:13] xris: holy crap we made engadget.
[21:57:32] wagnerrp: with a lack of release?
[21:57:48] danielk22: if bindv6only is set wouldn't succeeding on the bind to any be sufficient?
[21:59:47] wagnerrp: danielk22: the way it was set up, those methods just gave a list of addresses to listen to
[22:00:13] wagnerrp: on certain types of service (udplistener), it would ignore failing to listen on one of those addresses
[22:00:31] wagnerrp: on others, like the protocol or web servers, it would error if any failed to listen
[22:00:59] wagnerrp: i could change that to only fail if none successfully bound to their port...
[22:01:40] xris: wagnerrp: . . . human-years/
[22:03:38] wagnerrp: the "two bit anniversary"? wouldnt that just be 2 years?
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[22:04:24] danielk22: wagnerrp: With upnp binding to just IPv6 would be a fail since the protocol only supports IPv4 :|
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[22:05:48] wagnerrp: danielk22: it would be a fail if bindv6only were set to 1
[22:06:08] wagnerrp: but if bindv6only were set to 0, binding to either causes it to automatically bind to both
[22:06:31] wagnerrp: and were back to not actually knowing if the bindv6only system is functional without checking the state of that sysctl
[22:07:11] wagnerrp: if Qt gave the ability to [un]set the IPV6_V6ONLY flag on the socket, this would all be a moot point since we could override the system default
[22:07:14] wagnerrp: but they dont
[22:07:41] xris: jams: you playing with smolt? or maybe it didn't come up again correctly after last night's reboot
[22:08:56] wagnerrp: i found a thread from several years back discussing exactly this issue
[22:09:06] wagnerrp: the Qt people said to just use two qtcpservers
[22:09:22] wagnerrp: and overlooked the issue of binding to both when that flag is not set
[22:09:53] danielk22: wagnerrp: Qt allows you to.. have a look at iptvstreamhandler.cpp in the rtp branch. you can set socket options if you do the init yourself and then use setSocketDescriptor.
[22:10:09] danielk22: obviously not ideal..
[22:10:18] wagnerrp: well yeah, you have to create the socket yourself and stuff it into their wrapper
[22:11:01] danielk22: yup
[22:11:29] danielk22: they do at least add joinMulticastGroup in Qt 4.8 :P
[22:12:03] wagnerrp: im actually doing that for new connections, so that it can be overridden with a MythSocket wrapper instead for the protocol server stuff
[22:19:39] jams: xris, it didn't start after boot. It's running now
[22:20:35] xris: ok, good to know
[22:20:50] xris: I think we're actually ready to start migrating stuff back to alcor
[22:21:18] xris: got the dns zone file dump from OSU this morning but haven't had a chance to read it
[22:41:51] stichnot: stuartm: regarding frontend standby mode and keypresses. After I posted earlier today, I went back and set the timeout to 1 minute. I came back after 16 minutes, and it didn't respond to any remote button presses until I hit a jump point button. I then let it enter standby again, came back in 20 minutes, and this time it responded to an ordinary button press.
[22:42:04] stichnot: So I think there is a problem, I just don't know how to reproduce it.
[22:42:33] stuartm: stichnot: ok, I'll have another look at it
[22:42:38] stichnot: I'm happy to keep poking at it looking for a pattern.
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[22:46:12] stichnot: stuartm, sphery: regarding truncated help text in the setup pages. I don't really think making the help text font smaller is a good answer. Is there any consistent way to press some key while a setting is highlighted and have its full help text pop up?
[22:50:38] stuartm: stichnot: not smaller, just sized consistently no matter what the screen resolution
[22:51:48] stichnot: as I understood the conversation, the font size is proportional to the theme resolution, right?
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[22:53:17] sphery: the font /point/ size is the same, so depending on theme baseres, it appears smaller or larger in various themes
[22:53:20] stuartm: the theme resolution, not the screen resolution
[22:53:33] sphery: the change I'm looking to make will make the font display size the same on all themes
[22:53:37] stichnot: right
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[22:53:56] sphery: then we can figure out what fits and fix the help text so it will fit properly in all themes
[22:54:09] stichnot: and in all translations?
[22:54:22] stuartm: so the text appears to be a diffferent size with a 1080 theme on an 720 screen, than a 720 theme on that same screen
[22:54:31] stichnot: (that was more of a rhetorical question)
[22:54:40] sphery: well, assuming we get someone to test other translations and/or get reports of things not fitting, we can fix things, then
[22:54:59] sphery: but yeah
[22:55:23] stuartm: all translations is a tall order, if it turns out they don't fit though then increasing the size of the help text area may be the best fix
[22:55:28] stichnot: I think it's going to be very hard to control the size of the help text in general, so a more robust solution would be to provide an alternative way of viewing it, for those who need it.
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[22:56:30] stuartm: we could leverage the INFO binding for that, it's not a bad idea it's just not worth implementing against the old setting UI for 0.25 when it's being replaced entirely in 0.26
[22:56:34] stichnot: Pressing "INFO" and getting a popup version would be nice, except in those places where you want to type the letter I (or whatever) as part of the value
[22:56:51] stuartm: and this 'bug' isn't new, it's applied since the dawn of MythTV more or less
[22:56:52] stichnot: yeah, I realize the old UI issue
[22:57:21] sphery: and the mythui-based settings that xavierh has done (for 0.26, I hope) will probably make it much easier to fix--we've had this same issue with some help text not fitting as long as MythTV has existed... It's only gotten better, recently, because now we normalize those unthemed fonts based on the theme's baseres. However, recent changes to allow arbitrary baseres has led to a much larger variation in font size for unthemed settings (so this ...
[22:57:22] stichnot: and yeah, that 'bug' has bothered me mildly since I started using myth
[22:57:27] sphery: ... will fix that issue, now)
[22:57:57] sphery: so, IMHO, even if it's not "perfect" for 0.25, it's not too big an issue--we can perfect it when we switch to the themed/mythui-based settings
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[22:58:49] sphery: "not too big an issue" may be better written as, "not too big a suprise for users, who have been seeing the problem in other versions, anyway"  :)
[22:58:50] stichnot: yeah, so my only point in bringing it up here is to see if anyone had a cheap fix/workaround until the new settings code is in place
[23:00:03] sphery: yeah, I think making sure the font display size is consistent is the first step in the cheap fix/workaround approach.
[23:00:30] stichnot: The potential for overflow has always been there, I agree. I just noticed that two of the new/updated settings in 0.25 have really long help text compared to other help text strings, and those may be ones that are more likely to be looked at given their newness.
[23:01:29] sphery: yeah, they may need to be cut down, some, or--as you and stuartm suggested--the size of the help area increased
[23:01:54] sphery: though I think the size is computed based on what's in the screen... it seems to change on various screens, but I haven't really looked at the code
[23:03:23] stichnot: stuartm: aha! try entering standby mode from the playbackbox screen, and see if keypresses besides EXIT and jumppoints let you leave standby
[23:04:03] stichnot: sphery: the code is chock full of signals and connects and so forth, so good luck :)
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[23:05:28] jams: stuartm, so I have been looking at the .24 fixes branch for changing channels. I noticed in the ticket the commit that changed the ringbuffer timeout was blamed. it does seem like changing channels got a bit more error prone after that was commited. But it's no where near as bad as Trunk.
[23:06:31] jams: i will keep looking, but pretty sure there is more then one thing happening here.
[23:09:33] stichnot: stuartm: same problem when entering standby mode from mythvideo
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[23:54:47] xavierh_: stuartm: any comment on  ?
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[23:57:15] xavierh_: stichnot: Good idea about bringing the help text when pressing INFO. I am going to do that. So evnt if the themer does not display the help, or if it to small, we could see the whole help
[23:58:03] xavierh_: Does a confirmation dialog alow to scroll if the text is too long ?
[23:58:09] xavierh_: allow
[23:59:06] stichnot: xavierh_: what if I'm typing from the keyboard into a text entry box and I type the letter I which is mapped to INFO? I wouldn't want something popping up.

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