Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Saturday, February 4th, 2012, 00:12 UTC

[00:12:42]

danielk22:

sphery: I thought of that, but I think that may be to complex in this case. I'm pretty sure something close to 15% for brightness and 10% for contrast will work.. I just want to try it at night before I commit to those values.

[00:14:49]

sphery:

danielk22: sounds good... I just wanted to make sure that people don't fear putting in sensible settings because of misinterpreting my goals :)

[00:15:37]

sphery:

and, yeah, if it is something that can be done without settings, that does make it easier for everyone

[00:16:01]

spinningcog (spinningcog!~spinningc@71-221-85-132.eugn.qwest.net) has joined #mythtv

[00:16:52]

spinningcog:

I'm having trouble with my mythweb installation. All I get is a 500 Error, but no errors show up in apache's logs

[00:17:38]

spinningcog:

I placed a phpinfo() file in the directory, and navigated to it, and it properly shows all the relevant PHP information

[00:18:15]

spinningcog:

permisions on the /var/www/mythweb files are all www-data: www-data

[00:18:29]

clever:

spinningcog: read the topic

[00:18:43]

spinningcog:

oh boy, sorry about that

[00:19:48]

jpabq:

!seen iamalindoro

[00:19:48]

MythLogBot:

iamalindoro has not been seen here

[00:20:04]

wagnerrp:

!seen iamlindoro

[00:20:04]

MythLogBot:

iamlindoro was last seen 2 days 16 hours 8 seconds ago

[00:20:07]

jpabq:

!seen iamlindoro

[00:20:07]

MythLogBot:

iamlindoro was last seen 2 days 16 hours 11 seconds ago

[00:20:51]

jpabq:

Long time, for him.

[00:21:39]

Seeker`:

time to send out a search party?

[00:22:08]

wagnerrp:

i thought he might be out of the country, but it seems thats not until the end of the month

[00:23:03]

jpabq:

That's right. He bought a fancy camera for some trip.

[00:26:36]

jpabq:

stuartm, is there some way to force a <window> to display for the purpose of testing a theme? I am having trouble coming up with a show, that will trigger "MythMetadataResults" to pop up.

[00:33:25]

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[00:40:23]

** xris wonders what it would cost to get a legit DLNA or ROAP license. **

[00:42:26]

wagnerrp:

not sure about DLNA, but pretty sure a ROAP license would require us to be closed source

[00:42:38]

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[00:42:41]

wagnerrp:

since the implementation would lock us behind NDAs

[00:42:47]

wagnerrp:

jya: ^^^^

[00:42:52]

wagnerrp:

youve got some experience with that

[00:43:40]

jya:

wagnerrp: my firm is a member of the MFI (Made For iPod) program…

[00:44:57]

jya:

I've never seen a company as annoying as Apple to work with when it comes to extending their own product… Every documents I download from them that contains hardware related data has my name embedded into the documents everywhere in massive letters

[00:45:05]

xris:

could theoretically make some sort of interface layer to a closed source app / pseudo plugin

[00:45:40]

wagnerrp:

theoretically, i dont see why not

[00:45:53]

xris:

just pondering ideas that could make SD more helpful

[00:45:54]

wagnerrp:

some external daemon which would proxy the data into a format mythtv could deal with

[00:46:07]

xris:

right. no direct code linking, so no gpl violation

[00:46:12]

jya:

wagnerrp: having said that, any new projects, requires explicit approval from Apple before you can even start on it.. Average wait for an approval is at least 3 months (still waiting for approval for a BT accessory I applied for in October)

[00:46:46]

jya:

I'm not sure where AirPlay fits into this however...

[00:47:48]

jya:

My understanding is that to use it, you have to license it...

[00:47:59]

jya:

let me search on Apple's tech site see what it comes up with

[00:49:08]

jya:

that Apple has open Airplay for licensing is quite new… so haven't found much about it.

[00:49:12]

Seeker`:

I imagine exposing the resulting audio stream unencrypted would break some condition

[00:49:44]

jya:

At the time I looked into AirPlay, I gave up as it would have required reverse engineering and I would have been in a difficult situation with Apple on other projects if this became known

[00:50:08]

xris:

jya: dlna is the same way. fee for the docs, large flat fee for annual use, plus a per-unit fee.

[00:50:57]

xris:

which gets interesting with something like mythtv that doesn't actually sell anything. or even distribute compiled binaries.

[00:51:37]

jya:

ok.. AirPlay is part of the Made for iPod program...

[00:52:42]

jya:

so if it works like the bluetooth accessory licensing , the way it works is that you apply for a RSA key, and you authenticate your accessory using the key provided by Apple. A key is unique per product

[00:53:07]

jya:

This key is what I've been waiting for 4 months from Apple to continue my BT accessory

[00:54:10]

jya:

doc is marked as "All program-related technical specifications, documentation and forms are available here. All documents are Apple Confidential and should only be shared with those individuals who have a need to know and are bound by the appropriate NDA."

[00:55:14]

wagnerrp:

xris: DLNA certification means you get to carry the DLNA logo, attend DLNA meetings, and get showcased at various industry events

[00:55:21]

wagnerrp:

$10K up front, $10K yearly

[00:55:29]

jya:

so I'd say our chance to officially support it in an open source project is nil

[00:55:47]

wagnerrp:

i dont actually see anything in regards to access to the specification itself

[00:55:48]

jya:

because of that key...

[00:56:25]

xris:

wagnerrp: that's a lot less than I thought it was. just the docs were $20k when we were looking last year when someone offered us that leaked copy.

[00:56:27]

jya:

wagnerrp: yes, it's like the BT membership. It's free to join, you can get access to all the data and spec. But if you want to use the BT logo, you must pay

[00:57:01]

wagnerrp:

yeah, if we would get in trouble for displaying someone else's private key, i cant imaging we would be much better off displaying our own private key

[00:57:04]

xris:

jya: dlna is more closed down. even the docs are $$$. and you can't implement anything based on them without a license.

[00:57:20]

xris:

wagnerrp: yeah, likely not.

[00:57:49]

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[00:58:03]

jya:

I haven't actually looked at what markk did, is it using an external library or he did everything from scratch?

[00:58:24]

xris:

no clue.

[00:59:06]

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[00:59:20]

Seeker`:

from scratch I think

[00:59:45]

Seeker`:

or, rather, it isn't obviously a library

[00:59:56]

jya:

looking at it right now

[01:01:23]

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[01:02:06]

Seeker`:

it isn't a particularly complicated protocol. The devices identify with each other from the RSA key, then they exchange AES keys to encrypt the audio stream

[01:02:18]

Seeker`:

and send audio / timing info via UDP

[01:03:01]

xris:

just locked down in such a way that sucks for open source apps

[01:03:08]

xris:

or specifically, gpl apps

[01:04:53]

jya:

Apple policy about anything dealing with their own device is so bizarre… they really want to control the whole chain….

[01:08:48]

jya:

LOL, I'm looking at the form to apply for the self-certification test

[01:08:59]

jya:

(so you get a testing key)…

[01:09:29]

jya:

the form is 13 pages long, with about 20 questions in Q&A format per page

[01:22:57]

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[01:37:57]

wagnerrp:

"Non-member companies may purchase the DLNA Guidelines for internal evaluation purposes for $500.00 USD"

[01:38:40]

wagnerrp:

now whether that means you can just implement those and go with it sans logo, or if you have to be a member company to release any product...

[01:38:43]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea

[01:39:19]

wagnerrp:

and what the guidelines actually specify, dont know that either

[01:41:04]

xris:

wagnerrp: $500. someone must have not seen the decimal place when I was talking to them before. /me trouts Beirdo .

[01:41:43]

xris:

but yeah. no need for the logo for mythtv. but would be nice if we could learn more about the actual spec.

[01:42:27]

wagnerrp:

https://members.dlna.org/industry/certificati . . . ne_ordering/

[01:42:38]

wagnerrp:

membership gets them free

[01:42:44]

wagnerrp:

spend $10K to save $500

[01:42:55]

wagnerrp:

but you get a fancy logo!

[01:42:56]

wagnerrp:

:)

[01:43:12]

Beirdo:

no, I was quoting what it said

[01:43:42]

Beirdo:

and no, we could not use it for a product we distribute. That's not "internal" nor "evaluation"

[01:44:16]

Beirdo:

that might not be well received :)

[01:44:20]

Beirdo:

but hey..

[01:44:47]

Beirdo:

and membership is $10k/year IIRC

[01:44:51]

Beirdo:

not just $10k

[01:45:01]

xris:

that's not actually *that* much for SD

[01:45:16]

xris:

but the licensing could get messy with an open source project.

[01:45:25]

xris:

there's an email address, though. guess I could send them an inquiry

[01:45:40]

Beirdo:

the $500 would be for us to determine if we wanted to adopt it or not, if my interpretation is correct

[01:45:44]

Beirdo:

no harm in asking them

[01:45:57]

Beirdo:

heck, they might even GIVE us a license for all we know

[01:46:24]

xris:

yeah. "internal evaluation"

[01:51:17]

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[01:51:40]

Beirdo:

if we can find an officially sanctioned method, I'm all for implementing to spec

[01:52:22]

xris:

yeah

[01:55:40]

wagnerrp:

hey, you two are in luck

[01:56:00]

wagnerrp:

seems the Lake City library up near you is holding tough on their first amendment rights position

[01:56:12]

wagnerrp:

and allowing people to watch porn on library computers

[01:56:26]

Beirdo:

WTF?

[01:57:49]

xris:

wagnerrp: yeah, saw that in the paper the other day

[02:02:21]

xris:

not sure how I feel about it. computer was basically facing the kids DVD section. guy was a bit of a jerk for doing that out in the open.

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[03:37:51]

dblain:

xris: DLNA is just a superset of upnp/av which has an open specification. That is what I used to implement out upnp stack.

[03:39:06]

dblain:

as far as I know DLNA only offers extra headers that better describes the media being served, renamed a few things, and is generally backwards compatible with upnp/av

[03:39:48]

dblain:

Don't get me wrong, if we can get a valid lic. to implement against real specs, I'm all for it.

[03:40:22]

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[04:19:35]

stichnot:

sphery: can you remove the player_ctx arg in both deleteMap.SaveMap() calls in mythplayer.cpp, or should I file a ticket?

[05:02:16]

xris:

wtf. wikipedia says that xbmc is dlna certified

[05:03:15]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[05:03:25]

wagnerrp:

search on dlna.org... nothing listed

[05:05:05]

xris:

yeah. what's with that. heh

[05:09:23]

wagnerrp:

i wonder if the reference to there being "over nine thousand certified products" is somehow a joke

[05:11:48]

wagnerrp:

hehe...

[05:12:15]

wagnerrp:

on their site, they claim XBMC is compatible with DLNA CERTIFIED (tm) devices

[05:12:24]

wagnerrp:

someone somewhere misconstrued that as being certified itself

[05:14:19]

xris:

yeah

[05:14:22]

xris:

I found that, too

[05:24:15]

taylorr:

anyone else noticed the AV-sync is off in master – wondering if some of the clean-up has borked something

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[11:46:09]

stuartm:

jpabq: no, there's no way to do that, it's difficult to see how that would work since all the widgets would need populating with realistic values to allow proper theming

[11:46:15]

stuartm:

I can see the problem though

[11:47:03]

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[11:48:51]

stuartm:

taylorr: are you aware of the OSD update issue when in-progress recording ends? Position/length get set to zero instead of the correct values?

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[11:53:49]

stuartm:

xris: I don't see that claim on their wikipedia page?

[12:03:29]

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[12:03:48]

stuartm:

so ... why don't we have a page on the website listing all of the protocols, video/audio format and codecs etc that we support?

[12:04:01]

stuartm:

we don't exactly market our features very well :/

[12:28:17]

stuartm:

I mean some of the claims made about XBMC in that wikipedia page would make an cosmetics advertising executive blush, not because they aren't true but because they sound good for XBMC but are true of any media player

[12:28:42]

stuartm:

"XBMC can in addition upscale/upconvert all standard-definition (480i/480p/576i/576p) resolution videos and output them to 720p, 1080i, and 1080p high-definition resolutions"

[12:31:07]

stuartm:

well duh! MythTV can upscale to 2560×1600!!!

[12:31:14]

stuartm:

(or more)

[12:33:58]

stuartm:

some of the wikipedia sources are just fluff pieces themselves, write a blog post/article declaring XBMC to be great and that gives you license to make the same claims on wikipedia citing your own article

[12:36:09]

stuartm:

without treating our users like drooling idiots we need to do more to advertise MythTV's capabilities (which are largely the same as, or in some cases better than XBMC)

[12:51:06]

Seeker`:

I think the only place that XBMC 'beats' mythtv is the UI

[12:51:45]

Seeker`:

I was looking at a list of features the other day, and mythtv is better in a lot of respects

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taylorr:

stuartm: yes, I'm aware of the issue but I won't be able to look at it until I upgrade my production setup

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[15:27:21]

natanojl:

I guess it's ok for me to add two more easing curves to MythUIAnimation?

[15:29:39]

sphery:

Yep (and, btw, welcome). Let us know if you have any questions on git or similar.

[15:34:23]

stichnot:

sphery: did you see my question for you here ~11 hours ago?

[15:34:53]

natanojl:

sphery: Thank you

[15:41:49]

sphery:

stichnot: yeah, I'll do that in the next couple days.

[15:42:18]

sphery:

thanks for finding them

[15:42:44]

stichnot:

sphery: thanks, I won't bother with a ticket then.

[15:45:44]

stichnot:

That omission was causing all cutlist saves to be treated as auto-saves instead of actual saves. The cutlist wouldn't be applied during playback but it would look valid in the cutlist editor since the auto-save version would be automatically loaded. Very disturbing. :)

[15:49:51]

sphery:

stichnot: hehe, I see that now. I thought this was just more cleanup, but it's actually an important requirement after that cleanup

[15:52:10]

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[15:53:24]

stichnot:

Probably my fault for not maintaining the patch in #9535 after throwing it out there...

[15:53:56]

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[15:59:58]

sphery:

Not a big deal. I'll get the fix in soon. Thanks, again.

[16:01:23]

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[16:24:55]

stuartm:

Lawrence continues to demonstrate why he's not dev material ...

[16:26:07]

wagnerrp:

?

[16:28:25]

stuartm:

his disparaging remark about our coding standards in the ticket he just opened

[16:28:37]

wagnerrp:

just being needlessly derogatory about someone enforcing the style guidelines on his patch?

[16:29:13]

stuartm:

yup

[16:29:22]

stuartm:

he's not a team player

[16:30:50]

stuartm:

anyway, it raises an interesting question, why are we apparently not building mythmusic on the win32 buildbot?

[16:31:35]

wagnerrp:

probably missing some deps that just havent had a chance to fix yet

[16:31:43]

wagnerrp:

theres a couple of those on the freebsd bots as well

[17:04:22]

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[17:04:26]

jpabq:

stuartm, Is "watchedstate" suppose to work now, inside of mythvideo -> tree -> buttonlist ?

[17:04:29]

danielk22:

stuartm: I didn't read it that harshly. Tone can be difficult to judge in short text messages. The instance variable beauty mark is done for practical reasons not for looks.

[17:05:05]

danielk22:

Q: How do I add an item to the player OSD now? I want to add the night mode, but have no clue where that goes..

[17:07:16]

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[17:07:33]

stuartm:

jpabq: I don't think it's hooked up in mythvideo yet, I was going to take a look this weekend (probably tomorrow now)

[17:08:13]

jpabq:

stuartm, okay, thanks. I just wanted to make sure I was not trying to use it incorrectly.

[17:09:49]

danielk22:

nm, I think I've figured it out.. hasn't changed that much really..

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[17:45:47]

taylorr:

danielk22: are you aware of the analog recorder (ie. hdpvr) regressions in master for livetv?

[17:46:36]

danielk22:

hdpvr? no what are the ticket numbers ?

[17:46:52]

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[17:48:01]

taylorr:

danielk22: yes, I believe jpabq has reported the issue and there are one or more tickets plus discussion on the mailing lists – I'll see if I can find the tickets and discussion

[17:48:47]

taylorr:

there was discussion that it happened right after your merge for the recorder rewrite

[17:48:56]

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[17:49:12]

taylorr:

probably just a case of new code exposing old bugs or something

[17:49:35]

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[17:52:25]

danielk22:

taylorr: Nah, it's quite possible I quite possible I broke something. I removed gobs of what appeared to be duplicated code.. some of it might have had differences I didn't realize was meaningful and not just bugs fixed in one recorder and not another (the case in most of the differences in duplicated code.)

[17:54:25]

taylorr:

danielk22: #9177 for starts – it's been around for a while it seems

[17:55:17]

taylorr:

also #9830 by Simon Kenyon

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[17:56:58]

taylorr:

danielk22: #9846 – probably all duplicates of same issue

[17:58:56]

danielk22:

Hmm, sounds as if the issue is in 0.24-fixes.. I thought the recorder refactor was after that.

[18:00:30]

danielk22:

This same thing affects hd-pvr? I was using that recorder in my production boxes until a few weeks ago, I would have thought I'd notice...

[18:02:07]

danielk22:

It also looks more like a MythPlayer issue than a recorder issue... Anyway I'll put it on my plate.

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[18:13:38]

taylorr:

danielk22: thanks, maybe when jpabq is around he can provide more info on his issue with the hdpvr

[18:18:21]

xris:

stuartm: it's on the dlna page on wikiedia, not the xbmc page

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[18:39:10]

skd5aner:

stuartm: I don't see how Lawrence's comments were disparaging?

[18:39:46]

skd5aner:

this? "Commit c121c3ac added lidcdio support for CD reading but a number of stylistic changes were made to my original patch, including renaming some CdDecoder? instance variables (adding an "m_" wart). Unfortunately some win32 specific code that used these variables wasn't updated."

[18:40:42]

skd5aner:

what's disparaging about that?

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[20:37:03]

stuartm:

skd5aner: in the context of his past comments I take it as such – "stylistic changes made to _my_ patch" (emphasis mine) – "adding an 'm_' _wart_" ... it reeks of the passive aggressiveness that a lot of his past comments have contained (some have been less passive and more aggressive)

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[20:38:31]

stuartm:

I could be seeing something that's not there, but I don't believe that's the case – why even make the comments? He could have kept it to the point, "Patch attached to fix incorrectly named variables" etc

[20:40:08]

stuartm:

I'm not seeking an argument over it, it's really not that important, he's not interested in commit privs and we've declined to offer them anyway for a number of other reasons

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[21:21:00]

dts:

Hey I'm trying to compile my DVB-T driver module and have a generic question to how to add a new Vendor Id to the dvb-usb module

[21:21:14]

wagnerrp:

try #linuxtv

[21:21:27]

dts:

wagnerrp: thx

[21:21:28]

wagnerrp:

this is the mythtv development channel, we dont develop tuner drivers

[21:25:44]

gigem:

stuartm: I just committed the seriesid and programid authority changes. The scheduler performs a check at initialization and only peforms the authority checking if two or more authorities are found.

[21:26:29]

stuartm:

gigem: nice

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[22:19:27]

skd5aner:

stuartm: yea, but still if we're talking about him fiting in – there's several devs that are extremely protective and defensive of "their" work around here... way more so that what I might have interpreted out of LVR's comment – just my opinion, that's all

[22:20:16]

skd5aner:

stuartm: oh, and sorry – don't mean to linger on it, and definitely not trying to start an argument either – just giving him the benefit of the doubt and was curious as to the context of your comment. :)

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