| Monday, November 21st, 2011, 00:25 UTC | ||
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| [04:48:06] | superm1: | iamlindoro: those build flags you mentioned to add – 0.24 or 0.25? |
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| [05:39:15] | iamlindoro: | superm1: .25 |
| [05:41:09] | superm1: | iamlindoro: ok thanks. any harm in adding those flags now or should wait until you give the heads up for the exact date? |
| [05:41:44] | iamlindoro: | superm1: no harm at all-- in fact, it makes nuvexport work mildly more completely until then |
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| [17:51:54] | skd5aner: | I was thinking about the lifecycle for the service API – how do you plan on versioning the API? Especially after initial .25 launch? |
| [17:54:03] | skd5aner: | do you expect a lot of iteration of the API and how do you plan on deprecating methods when new ones come up? |
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| [18:15:47] | iamlindoro: | Each data contract (complex return type, like a "Program" or a "VideoInfo") has an version number, and each service has a version number, all of which are indicated in the returned data. Any time the contact changes (which is generally to add rather than to remove) the contract version is bumped. Any time the service itself is changed, its version is bumped. Yes, the API will change regularly but in the early period it will be to add r |
| [18:15:47] | iamlindoro: | than remove in most cases. There is no firm plan on API deprecation but my general thought is that whenever possible a deprecated API will exist alongside the new API for at least a version. This will not always be possible. |
| [18:16:48] | iamlindoro: | Each Service also generates a wsdl XML doc, which can be used to check that the APIs and contracts return what the application expects |
| [18:16:58] | iamlindoro: | though obviously it falls on the app to be a good citizen |
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| [18:19:45] | skd5aner: | thanks iamlindoro... I ask because I'm considering creating a wiki page after 0.25 that will link off the primary API service wiki page that will track ALL changes to the API, instead of trying to keep track in the general release notes... |
| [18:20:12] | skd5aner: | but, understanding how the API wil "physically" handle changes and versioning is helpful to understand how relavent it is to communicate the changes out |
| [18:20:38] | skd5aner: | any other thoughts you have on that front, besides the primary documentation on the wiki? |
| [18:22:10] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: My desire is to change the existing APIs as little as possible, and when they are changed, it should be optional additions only... obviously that's just my vote |
| [18:22:25] | skd5aner: | Also – I know the API spits out XML and JSON right now right? Anything else? Any reason to support mutliple formats instead of standardizing on one like JSON? I know a few high profile public APIs are deprecating or removing XML |
| [18:22:48] | iamlindoro: | if an existing API needs totally new mandatory arguments, or an API which changes the DB changes the way it processes a piece of data, then it should be replaced with a new API and the old API deprecated |
| [18:22:54] | iamlindoro: | XML, JSON, SOAP |
| [18:23:07] | skd5aner: | iamlindoro: sounds good – I was just curious if you thought tracking the changes like that (via the wiki) would be a worthwhile excercise? :) |
| [18:23:16] | iamlindoro: | sure, tracking via the wiki sounds good |
| [18:23:20] | skd5aner: | oh yea, SOAP |
| [18:23:33] | iamlindoro: | There's no reason not to support multiple formats |
| [18:23:37] | skd5aner: | so... what's the driver for supporting those 3 other than to make it "nice"? |
| [18:24:02] | skd5aner: | complexity in writing and mainting the API? |
| [18:24:06] | iamlindoro: | All the data is one code path until output, when it's run through the requested serializer |
| [18:24:29] | skd5aner: | I see |
| [18:24:31] | iamlindoro: | the author of a new API doesn't need to write even a single extra line of code to support all the serializers |
| [18:24:53] | iamlindoro: | You just write your method, and the framework handles serializing it |
| [18:24:54] | skd5aner: | cool |
| [18:25:04] | iamlindoro: | in fact, I'd advocate even more serializers |
| [18:25:57] | iamlindoro: | The API has one method of input, and many methods of output-- so long as there's interest in an output method, there's no harm in having it-- but XML and JSON should cover 99% of desires |
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| [18:26:48] | skd5aner: | I was just curious the reasoning behind it given that some folks (like twitter) are shutting down their offering of XML in favor of JSON |
| [18:27:11] | iamlindoro: | I guess I'd counter with a question of my own-- what's the harm in having them? |
| [18:27:27] | skd5aner: | fair enough – I'm not really advocating one way or another :) |
| [18:27:38] | skd5aner: | ... just learning :) |
| [18:28:12] | iamlindoro: | Twitter doesn't want to maintain APis that likely have wildly divergent code-- our API doesn't have any additional code once the serializer is written, therefore adding any API automatically inberits the ability to use all the output types-- so I can't see why we *wouldn't* want to offer all of them |
| [18:28:29] | skd5aner: | is there any plans to track utilization/adoption of the services so that the devs can understand how they're being utilized? |
| [18:28:43] | skd5aner: | I guess it's a little hard to do since it's not centralized |
| [18:28:49] | iamlindoro: | It's open source.. I'm not sure how we'd track adoption |
| [18:29:45] | iamlindoro: | There are currently four "consumers" of the API that I know of, with at least one more on the way, but no tracking |
| [18:30:08] | skd5aner: | Well, unless there was some way to enable logging and anonymous data submission – I guess an API key system would be a little difficult to implement for anything that would be a "public" app such as your ipad app... |
| [18:30:49] | iamlindoro: | We'd need to write a ton of code just to track it, I can't see it being worth it |
| [18:31:06] | skd5aner: | well, anyway – I've been fairly disconnected when all this was conceived and created – so I appoligize if I'm reasking things that have been discussed over and over again |
| [18:31:12] | skd5aner: | appreciate the background |
| [18:31:13] | iamlindoro: | The number of hours that would go into getting the data, not to mention intrusive changes to the API, just doesn't seem to have an upside |
| [18:32:26] | skd5aner: | Well, short of issuing API keys... any thoughts on promoting adopters of the API? |
| [18:32:42] | iamlindoro: | promoting in what way? |
| [18:33:19] | skd5aner: | I guess a showcase of third-party developers that have created solutions that leverage the service... |
| [18:33:51] | skd5aner: | I guess that's probably up to them |
| [18:34:28] | iamlindoro: | Well, this is not to say that having that kind of thing wouldn't be nice, but we are missing even the most basic of marketing materials for MythTV itself, let alone the APIs |
| [18:34:56] | iamlindoro: | I had recently had thoughts of having a "website/branding" contest, though |
| [18:35:47] | iamlindoro: | With respect to the work that went into creating the last rewrite of the web site, mythtv.org looks pretty dated and without artistic style |
| [18:35:48] | skd5aner: | What kind of marketting gaps would you like to see get filled? |
| [18:37:53] | skd5aner: | is mythtv.org primarily rendered from css? |
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| [18:41:17] | iamlindoro: | I would like to see our web site look a little more alive-- meaning an overhaul of "branding" (logo, font) and "style" (content, layout, etc.). I would like for the content to be exciting and dynamic, and reflect the user experience that we aspire to with MythTV, and the many, many cool things it is capable of, using current depictions of mythTV and not something multiple years out of date |
| [18:42:30] | iamlindoro: | Yes, mythtv.org makes heavy use of css-- but changing the style sheets is not nearly enough, IMO. No half measures. The content should be written from scratch by someone with an eye for wording and "sales", then it should be copy-edited, then image and video content should be generated in a professional and stylish way to accompany the text |
| [18:42:48] | iamlindoro: | then layout and structure should be done by someone who is good at that |
| [18:42:52] | iamlindoro: | so yeah, nice simple job ;) |
| [18:43:09] | iamlindoro: | mythtv.org is better than the ffmpeg and mplayer sites... but not by much |
| [18:44:13] | iamlindoro: | And it falls way, way short of XBMC's site, which is fairly effective marketing, and is updated frequently with "look at the new whiz-bang thing we can do now," much of which can also be done with MythTV (Blu-ray playback, HDMI-CEC, a very capable API for external apps, an iPad app, etc) but which we are much less effective at communicating |
| [18:44:39] | iamlindoro: | I'd go so far as to say that having a good writer on the web site "staff" to write regularl blog posts about what's new in master would be a great move |
| [18:45:34] | iamlindoro: | I'd be willing to write the periodic update to the site myself if we had some sort of CMS instead of the dreadful "run a perl script and svn up and ask someone to update the site" approach we have now |
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| [22:06:29] | danielk22: | iamlindoro: for liveness.. recent commits in an info box that linked to github would pretty much always show commits in the last day and usually commits within the last few hours... just an idea.. i know code scares some ppl. |
| [22:08:51] | dekarl: | danielk22: I too think that recent fixes commits might be interesting. The website should target the layman first imho. |
| [22:09:48] | danielk22: | dekarl: Those wouldn't be very lively, once a release has been out a while those slow to trickle. |
| [22:12:51] | dekarl: | Maybe "meanwhile at the forums / user list / wiki" would be better? |
| [22:13:28] | dekarl: | it all depends on your target audience. And with all the "oh man, they didn't even get a decent screenshot" I'd target newcomers |
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| [22:32:52] | markk: | danielk22, Captain_Murdoch: just done a little testing of dvd startup times with the patch in #9437. One test dvd now plays in about 3 seconds – down from 84 :) I think the key change is in fileringbuffer. the mythiowrapper chunk didn't improve things in isolation. |
| [22:33:13] | markk: | not tested bluray playback as there is a deadlock in master atm. |
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| [22:41:14] | markk: | danielk22, Captain_Murdoch: forgot to mention – that's with remote iso playback – which is the slowest of the lot. other iso came down from around 20 seconds to 2. |
| [22:41:55] | markk: | looks like there's no impact on bluray times though – a-team still takes 59 seconds :( |
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| [23:04:56] | danielk22: | markk: Cool! 3 seconds is in line with the time my DVD player takes, maybe even a little faster. |
| [23:05:44] | danielk22: | (I mean the black box under the DVD, not software). |
| [23:05:53] | danielk22: | err, under the TV |
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