MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

Current users (85):

aloril, andreax, Anduin, Andy50, Anssi, anykey_, beata, Captain_Murdoch, Chutt, clever_, coling, Computer_Czar, Cougar, dagar, danielk22, Dave123, Dave123-road, dlblog, eharris, f33dMB, FinnTux, foxbuntu`, ghoti, Gibby, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, highzeth, iamlindoro, ikonia, j-rod|afk, jams, jannau, jarle, jcarlos, JEDIDIAH__, joe_, jpabq, jpabq-, jstenback, justinh, jwhite, kc, knightr, kormoc, kurre, kwmonroe, laga, mag0o, markk, mike|3, mrand, MythBuild_, MythLogBot, M|ckael_, noahric, okolsi, pheld, PointyPumper, poptix, purserj, pushpop, reynaldo, sailerboy, Seeker`, simonckenyon, skd5aner, Snow-Man, sphery, stuarta, sunkan, sutula, taylorr, tgm4883, ThisNewGuy, tomimo, tris, Unhelpful, wahrhaft, weta, wylie, xris, ybot, zombor, _charly_
Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011, 00:04 UTC
[00:04:17] Beirdo: GreyFoxx: if you'd like, I could get your IPv6 stuff up on github if you'd rather not do so yourself.
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[01:08:09] elmojo: how can I list which nicks I have registered under my e-mail address?
[01:08:32] kormoc: elmojo, if you're logged in, /msg nickserv info
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[01:12:25] jpabq: jya, it is actually the left side speaker that the garbage comes out of. With latest master/head it is still there, unfortunately.
[01:12:35] jya: damn..
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[01:13:02] jya: I wonder if it's related to the "pop" they can hear someone mentioned elsewhere
[01:13:12] jya: is this with timestretch enabled only ?
[01:13:15] jpabq: elmojo, My frontend is a 3GHz core2 + nVidia GT220.
[01:13:26] jpabq: jya, yes, only with timestretch
[01:13:35] elmojo: jpabq: do the GT220 have a fan?
[01:13:53] jya: jpabq: would be interesting to know if you hear it with 0.24 too
[01:14:06] jpabq: elmojo, nope
[01:14:11] jya: jpabq: that's with AC3 re-encoding or LPCM ?
[01:14:32] elmojo: jpabq: hmmmm, I got a feeling it might be thermal related
[01:14:34] jya: or both
[01:15:12] jpabq: jya, With AC3 re-encode I get the occasional garbage out the left side speaker. With LPCM i get the occasional audio repeat. The audio-repeat is less annoying.
[01:15:14] elmojo: jpabq: that was my issue... I have an Zotac ION board that didn't come with a fan – I put attached a 60mm fan an all the issues went away
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[01:15:53] jpabq: elmojo, I have been considering getting a GT440. That knowledge may be enough for me to go for it.
[01:15:59] jya: jpabq: so to be clear; if you disable AC3 re-encode: then no garbage in the lest speaker
[01:16:07] jpabq: jya, correct
[01:16:19] jya: damn... I'm at loss now
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[01:16:38] jpabq: To be clear, maybe I should be saying side left, instead of left side
[01:17:13] taylorr: jpabq: sorry I just dropped off there – can you monitor your temps on the 220 and see if higher temps correlate with problems
[01:17:49] taylorr: it might be why 3/4 the way in you see the problem since the heat is probably building up under the constant load
[01:18:14] taylorr: it you have a spare case fan you could rig up to blow air across then it would help a lot
[01:18:16] jpabq: taylorr, I can give that a try. I assume there is an easy command-line program that reports the temp.
[01:18:44] jpabq: I have been considering getting a GT440. That knowledge may be enough for me to go for it.
[01:18:58] taylorr: hehe – glad I could help you there
[01:21:09] jpabq: Maybe that is why it is almost impossible to find a fanless GT440, even though they are suppose to run cooler than the GT2xx cards.
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[01:23:43] taylorr: jpabq: it almost makes me paranoid about going fanless
[01:24:18] taylorr: the big give away for me was if I compiled while running playback the video got so stuttery I had to reboot to get things back to normal
[01:24:45] taylorr: since I but the fan on today it never hiccups at all – even when compiling
[01:25:03] jpabq: Fine. I ordered it.
[01:25:46] taylorr: cool, I picked up a GT220 for $8 after MIR the other day after sphery alerted me about it
[01:25:57] taylorr: it has a fan so I should be good to go
[01:26:23] jpabq: I know something like gkrellm can be used to monitor GPU temps, but it would be nice to have something that would log it every minute or so — know of a way?
[01:26:38] taylorr: I think that the lmsensors might work
[01:27:01] taylorr: if not I thing there was a nvidia command line tool by a 3rd party that might do it
[01:27:22] jpabq: I will look into it. Thanks.
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[01:34:35] jpabq: jya, I wonder if the AC3 static and the LPCM repeat are actually the same problem, that exhibits itself differently depending on if AC3 encoding is happening or not. The frequency could be about the same. The LPCM repeat problem sure seems like a buffering issue — Like it is overrunning the end of an audio buffer, causing it to replay some audio it already played a few seconds ago. Maybe same thing is happening with AC3 encode, but results in a
[01:34:35] jpabq: short static burst instead ?
[01:35:29] jya: could be... I may add some logs to check when we actually overruns the circual buffer
[01:35:37] jya: and see if there's a relationship
[01:36:04] jya: but that part of the code hasn't changed since 0.24
[01:36:15] jya: so I don't understand why it would show up now
[01:36:23] jya: however
[01:36:34] jya: yesterday I was playing a MKV with a DTS track
[01:36:43] jya: with timestretch
[01:36:56] jya: the log was full of pause(1), pause(0)..
[01:37:17] jya: for no particular reasons ; I don't see it with my 0.24 backports ; only on master.
[01:37:38] jya: I think this is related to what markk has been doing that pause the audio and resume
[01:37:50] jpabq: Could be.
[01:41:14] sphery: jpabq-: nvidia-settings -q $DISPLAY/GPUCoreTemp (you need to be authenticated on the X server to use it, but it outputs to the command line without popping up any windows). See the nvidia-settings --help for more
[01:43:28] jpabq: sphery, cool. I will setup a script to run that on the frontend every minute.
[01:56:12] Beirdo: jpabq: It might glitch your playback :)
[01:56:33] Beirdo: it certainly did just now the first time I tried it, but not the second
[01:56:58] Beirdo: gonna have to link that into cacti
[01:59:37] taylorr: Beirdo: cacti?
[02:00:34] Beirdo: yeah, I have cacti setup to graph all sorts of stuff
[02:01:03] Beirdo: but I'd have to put this through SNMP to do it "the right way"
[02:01:24] taylorr: sounds neat
[02:01:39] taylorr: any reason why you are monitoring your GPU temp now? you having issues too?
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[02:03:12] Beirdo: well, I'm a graphing whore ;)
[02:03:29] taylorr: do you provide cloaks?
[02:03:36] Beirdo: I think it has something to do with depending on trending graphs to monitor stuff at work
[02:03:55] Beirdo: no problems with the GPU yet, but if I can graph it... I wanna
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[02:21:47] jpabq: taylorr, I *might* start having problem once the gpu temp reached 85. Need more testing to be sure though.
[02:24:53] taylorr: jpabq: 85 is pretty toasty – you'll probably find that the thermal max is higher but I don't trust those numbers
[02:25:30] taylorr: hard to know if thermal max is the temp at which permanent damage can occur or when the chip misbehaves
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[03:06:55] jpabq: taylorr, temp got up to 89, and after a minor glitch at 85, the video playback was actually fine — until near the end when it glitched again. That was during a two hour show played back at 1.3x
[03:27:52] taylorr: jpabq: that's really hot – I'd put a fan on it to see if the glitches are totally removed
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[03:36:58] taylorr: jpabq: what is your idle temp?
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[04:09:23] taylorr: jpabq: I found another potential issue – I'm seeing these in the logs -> "2011-05–03 00:04:47.661 SendReceiveStringList(QUERY_SG_FILEQUERY,192.168.123.3...) called from UI thread" and it's definitely blocking video playback when it happens
[04:09:59] taylorr: does anyone have an idea what that debug output means?
[04:11:26] taylorr: why would we be blocking the UI thread with SendReceiveStringList for a QUERY_SG_FILEQUERY? what is it used for?
[04:15:12] wagnerrp: taylorr: thats a single file information lookup over storage groups
[04:15:37] wagnerrp: used to test whether an image file is available during the recording artwork search
[04:15:50] wagnerrp: a well as determine whether it is a newer image, and should be recached
[04:16:16] taylorr: wagnerrp: interesting, can this be moved outside the UI thread?
[04:16:39] wagnerrp: AFAIK, those should not be running during video playback
[04:16:44] wagnerrp: only when navigating through the PBB
[04:16:46] taylorr: will it only run if a recording has artwork?
[04:17:05] wagnerrp: mythtv has no idea if a recording has artwork
[04:17:12] wagnerrp: as there is no means in the database to store such
[04:17:22] wagnerrp: which is why that command is intended as a quick way to test
[04:18:00] taylorr: ok, I definitely see this happening during playback – wonder if they are getting queued while in PBB and then processed when the video starts
[04:18:31] wagnerrp: only if you scroll through a whole bunch of recordings in quick succession
[04:18:39] wagnerrp: it should only be loaded as-needed
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[04:19:21] wagnerrp: iamlindoro, or possibly Captain_Murdoch, would know a lot more about that process than i would
[04:21:17] taylorr: the first one got called 6 seconds into playback
[04:21:32] taylorr: cool, some help would be appreciated
[04:22:41] taylorr: this wasn't an issue before the MythUI-OSD merge when the UI and playback had there own thread
[04:24:22] taylorr: jpabq: do you ever see the SendReceiveStringList during playback when you have -v extra enabled
[04:24:52] Captain_Murdoch: the fanart loading in PBB shouldn't get queued up too deep, we use a timer and reset it if the use scrolls out before it fires. is this happening over and over or just once or twice after entering playback?
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[04:25:25] Captain_Murdoch: we should reset that timer if we start playback though, we could be firing it off after playback starts.
[04:25:26] taylorr: Captain_Murdoch: lemme check how many times it happens – it does seem to finally stop
[04:26:07] Captain_Murdoch: run with "-v network,extra" if you can so you can see the whole message it's sending to the BE. is it the same file or different files it's looking for.
[04:27:20] taylorr: looks like it was called 6 times
[04:27:37] taylorr: ok, I'll rerun with those flags
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[04:34:01] taylorr: Captain_Murdoch: just did it twice that time and it was for the same artwork twice
[04:34:22] taylorr: let me know if you want to look at a log
[04:35:17] taylorr: and it's artwork for the show I'm watching
[04:35:30] Captain_Murdoch: sure, if you don't mind pasting the log, I'll take a look.
[04:37:36] taylorr: sent PM with URL
[04:37:55] taylorr: past my bedtime – good night
[04:38:58] Captain_Murdoch: snagging it now. thanks.
[04:40:27] taylorr: Beirdo: check out the "random short pauses" thread on -users – the user seems to think that MythWeather might be impacting playback
[04:41:07] Beirdo: oh good God.
[04:41:11] taylorr: he sees the "Starting update of NWS-Alerts" right before the pauses occur
[04:41:14] Beirdo: heh, thanks for the heads up
[04:41:26] taylorr: does that use the UI thread?
[04:41:28] Beirdo: well, first thing to do is to not make mythweather update in the background
[04:41:36] Beirdo: it might
[04:41:51] Beirdo: the background updating has been questionable for a while now
[04:42:19] Beirdo: I guess another thing on the list of stuff to fix :)
[04:43:24] taylorr: heh, I wonder what else might be out there that could occur during playback and block the UI thread
[04:43:59] Captain_Murdoch: those QUERY_SG_FILEQUERY are the RemoteFile::LastModified() checks that occur inside libmythui when it displays a remote image.
[04:44:56] Beirdo: yeah, there's so much stuff that can be doing it. I would not be at all surprised if the backgrounded mythweather updates was one of em
[04:45:36] taylorr: but it doesn't make since that the weather background stuff would use the UI thread
[04:46:11] taylorr: it'd be nice if you could confirm wether or not that's the case
[04:46:55] Beirdo: well, it builds its own screen, but I think it's actually running in the UI thread.
[04:47:05] Beirdo: I'll look into it though :)
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[04:47:35] taylorr: Beirdo: thanks
[04:47:43] Beirdo: no prob.
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[04:48:30] Beirdo: right now I'm trying to setup a printer and router in my new home office space... and having much fun with openwrt not behaving.
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[04:57:33] Beirdo: you happen to know if the user is on 0.24-fixes or 0.25pre?
[04:58:04] Beirdo: looks like 0.24-fixes
[04:58:44] Beirdo: in which case, there's not much I can do other than verify that it could be mythweather. All of the support for running external scripts has been vastly changed since then
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[08:58:32] soomsoom: Hello im getting troubles from mythbackend on the mythtv user
[08:58:37] soomsoom: i am using debian
[08:58:52] soomsoom: its getting segmentation fault
[09:15:31] jamesba (jamesba!~jamesba@132.185.140.26) has joined #mythtv
[09:16:07] stuarta: soomsoom: please read the topic
[09:16:30] soomsoom: ha sorry
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[09:29:06] Beirdo: ummm, likely a 0.24.1 release this week? One would think this would be discussed before being announced, no?
[09:33:07] Beirdo: anywho, bed for me
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[10:05:26] ** stuarta huhs?!? **
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[12:15:58] danielk22: Has anyone read the Optimizing_Performance on the wiki lately? It appears to be full of out of date suggestions, such on enabling DMA for disks, or questionable ones like setting your XFS allocation size to 512MB..
[12:16:41] danielk22: Also, one that bit me hard — the suggestion to use tcp in your mount options. I traced some severe video playback problems to that...
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[13:38:11] Captain_Murdoch: danielk22, in a6593568 when you reworked the artwork loading in PBB, you commented out the original values and set the artwork loading timers all to 0. did you mean to remove the 0's and uncomment the original values before committing? the delay was in there originally so that when scrolling quickly through recordings, we wouldn't fire off loads as fast as you scrolled.
[13:38:50] Captain_Murdoch: nfs options probably need to be looked at, unless someone updated those, they are probably based on older kernels.
[13:41:30] danielk22: Captain_Murdoch: I just updated the nfs stuff and a few other things on that page..
[13:45:15] danielk22: Captain_Murdoch: Hmmm, maybe... I don't use the artwork stuff myself. The only reason I was working on it was because people were complaining the UI was painfully slow when I had spent countless hours making everything else on that screen reasonably fast.
[13:45:31] danielk22: I can see myself setting the loading timers to 0 to make the problem easier to debug.
[13:45:48] Captain_Murdoch: could have been the block size for you more than tcp vs udp if the udp comment about it selecting a 32KB block size while tcp uses much larger. I force mine to 32KB.
[13:46:43] Captain_Murdoch: ok, I have taylorr testing that uncomment and a patch I gave him to stop the timers if we start playback. he was having a playback hickup after startup becuase the image load timers were firing.
[13:47:16] danielk22: Captain_Murdoch: Possibly, my tcp mounts are all using 512KB rsize.. But 4–5 second delays are probably something else wacky with NFS over tcp as well...
[13:47:47] Captain_Murdoch: libmythui does a RemoteFile::LastModified check for myth:// images and that executes in the UI thread.
[13:48:01] Captain_Murdoch: yeah, 4–5 sounds too long.
[13:48:50] Captain_Murdoch: I use actimeo=0,soft,rsize=32768,wsize=32768 for my recordings filesystems.
[13:50:26] danielk22: I used something similar until recently when I was trying to simplify based on the latest NFS recommendations, and because "intr" is no longer respected in recent kernels I needed to rework my mount line..
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[14:53:05] danielk22: Is there a wiki article on the new backend http config? i.e. how do I enable it, set the password, etc.
[14:53:59] stuarta: i can't comment, i haven't even read the commit messages yet :(
[14:55:22] taylorr: danielk22: port 6544 and username/password is admin/root I think
[14:55:43] soomsoom: can someone help me?
[14:56:07] taylorr: soomsoom: probably should try mythtv-users channel first
[14:56:16] stuarta: soomsoom: no, you were directed to #mythtv-users several hours ago
[14:56:21] soomsoom: taylorr: tried already no one response
[14:56:33] soomsoom: stuarta: ^
[14:56:42] stuarta: then wait there until someone does
[14:57:20] taylorr: unless it's development related it usually won't get discussed here – you'll have to try again later when more people are available
[14:58:08] soomsoom: just make mythbackend to start without capture card
[14:58:09] soomsoom: :X
[14:59:28] dblain: danielk22: the default username/password is admin/mythtv... I haven't had time to create wiki pages for the new API framework yet and I haven't heard anything about it being updated for the web config either.
[15:00:31] taylorr: soomsoom: it's not supported but it might be possible – ask again later in mythtv-users since I know there are some people who would know for sure
[15:00:52] taylorr: also the mythtv-users ML usually gets pretty fast responses
[15:04:25] taylorr: soomsoom: this is probably the only official response you'll get about tunerless operation -> http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9626
[15:05:20] soomsoom: so i need tuner
[15:05:20] taylorr: there is a patch attached to the ticket that will allow tunerless operation if you are compiling from source
[15:05:20] soomsoom: :X
[15:05:29] soomsoom: ugh
[15:05:35] soomsoom: are u serious?
[15:05:45] soomsoom: i tried this patch... only troubles
[15:05:46] soomsoom: "X
[15:07:07] stuarta: there are proposed designs that would allow what you want but nothing actually coded.
[15:08:29] soomsoom: ok if not this... how can I disappere those messages about mythtbackend
[15:14:58] stuarta: I'm seeing these now i'm on Qt4.7+ "Application asked to unregister timer 0x0 which is not registered in this thread. Fix applicatio
[15:15:03] stuarta: n
[15:15:11] stuarta: anyone else seen them?
[15:15:38] stuarta: definitely on 0.24-fixes and also on HEAD i believe
[15:17:01] danielk22: dblain: thx
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[15:20:35] sphery: Captain_Murdoch: Shouldn't users stop specifying rsize/wsize options, now? IIRC, it's been years since the ancient default of 4 or 8kiB was made dynamic, such that the client and server now negotiate the maximum supported size (and now often use 1MiB) when the options aren't specified.
[15:20:56] natanojl: stuarta: I saw that the other day but haven't done any debugging yet
[15:21:28] ** stuarta tries to remember how to turn QWarnings into QFatals... **
[15:21:29] danielk22: sphery: The problem is linux will autonegotiate a rsize/wsize which is way to big.
[15:22:04] stuarta: how is too big a problem?
[15:23:14] danielk22: It takes too long to get data.. you do a 32KB read, and it takes as long as say a 512KB read.
[15:23:35] stuarta: fair enuf
[15:24:59] stuarta: i also need to work out why the theme downloader isn't working. the backend downloads it, but then the frontend says that the backend failed to download it.
[15:25:12] stuarta: separate fe/be fwiw
[15:26:18] Captain_Murdoch: sphery, what danielk22 said. :) performance might be better in some cases if you force a lower [rw]size. I think we've seen some people who have a negotitated size of 1MByte or larger.
[15:26:51] Captain_Murdoch: stuarta, I need to test that scenario, but haven't found the time yet. you're the 2nd or 3rd person to report (to me) seeing it fail in that scenario.
[15:26:58] Captain_Murdoch: ok, maybe 3rd or 4th. :)
[15:27:14] stuarta: glad i'm not a specical case for a change :)
[15:27:33] stuarta: breaking things is a speciality of mine
[15:27:35] sphery: stuarta: for me, it did that, but then when I attempted to change it, again, immediately after, it worked. haven't tried to repro it, yet, though
[15:27:45] ** stuarta hmmms **
[15:35:46] natanojl: stuarta: http://pastebin.com/3Y5fP3xF
[15:37:02] stuarta: simple patch. that fixes it?
[15:38:41] danielk22: Beirdo: I finished the my code review of the QThread porting. Mostly things were ok, or were easily fixed. But there are three commits I think we should just revert, at least for now. 7aace9 cee448 50f580 (And also part of 361f21).
[15:38:42] natanojl: seems like it does
[15:40:09] stuarta: \o/
[15:40:36] superm1: this talk above of a 0.24.1, what's pre-empting it? just a refreshed release?
[15:40:56] danielk22: Beirdo: 7aace9 uses the thread for two different purposes, one of which the QThread conversion is ok, but the other is a detached thread that is supposed to run after we leave the video player, so an attached thread like QThread will not work. To port this we need to convert the second use into a QRunnable or manage the thread at different level.
[15:40:57] superm1: or another protocol change like happened for 0.23.1?
[15:42:00] wagnerrp: superm1: a comment by stua rtm on the -dev list
[15:42:43] natanojl: stuarta: :)
[15:42:59] superm1: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/479212  ? so no details there as to why though
[15:43:28] stuarta: natanojl: you want to drop that patch in a ticket?
[15:43:39] danielk22: Beirdo: cee448 appears to rely on uses something like wakeOne() rather than the wakeAll() you used in the port, and relies on some the wait condition not triggering itself after that wakeOne() which the Qt API make no guarantee of. This may be portable to QThreads, this needs to be a pretty much total rewrite of the threading.
[15:43:50] wagnerrp: there has been talk for several months, but thats the first ive heard about actually going through with it
[15:44:39] natanojl: stuarta: Sure
[15:45:23] stuarta: thanks. that way if i don't find time, someone can easily commit it
[15:45:29] stuarta: +else
[15:45:52] danielk22: Beirdo: 50f580 — I just couldn't verify that this would work, this needs to be coordinated with someone using OSX Firewire capture.. I have enough doubts that I'd just leave it out, anyone running on OSX will have pthreads..
[15:47:43] danielk22: Beirdo: 361f21 — Here we're dealing with detached threads as in 7aace9. This can be handled, but should be done after the work wagnerrp is doing in this code.
[15:48:46] j-rod: well now, this is neat...
[15:48:55] stuarta: wazzat?
[15:48:56] j-rod: smolt on a clean fedora 15 install
[15:49:21] j-rod: among the line items it wants to send: MythTV Remote, Role, Theme, Plugin, Tuner
[15:50:07] sphery: superm1: if nothing else, the fact that a number of users still seem to be downloading the 0.24 release tarball, which is known to have a ton of bugs, and no one should be using. There were also a couple of binary (plugin) version changes that we were unable to make without a point release, but that we could consider if we do a 0.24.1. stuartm had said in here, yesterday, that he was going to push for a 0.24.1 release this week, and this ...
[15:50:12] j-rod: (they're all Unknown at the moment, of course, since its a clean just-installed-from-distro-cd install)
[15:50:13] sphery: ... islikely the start of said pushing. :)
[15:50:41] superm1: sphery, okay so no real reason that a new PPA would need to be made like the protocol changes from 0.23.1
[15:50:44] danielk22: Beirdo: cee448 — on we're also using a terminate to kill a loop, this is almost never good idea since we share memory with the thread it may be holding lock which can end up forever locked. (Not the fault of the port of course, but it should be mentioned.)
[15:50:52] superm1: because we rebuild plugin and mythtv every night anyway
[15:52:58] sphery: superm1: no--at this point we don't have any version changes, and haven't discussed any (even the plugin version changes stuff, which is the least intrusive). As for the fixes I did that required a plugin version change in master, I'm leaning toward not putting them into a 0.24.1, since no one has been complaining about them since I fixed the issues in unstable.
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[15:53:45] wizworks: having problem with mythtv box on ubuntu 10.4 screen keeps blanking after few minutes. any ideas?
[15:54:00] stuarta: step 1. read the topic :)
[15:54:24] wizworks: sorry new to IRC how to read the topic? (using bitchX client)
[15:54:41] wagnerrp: '/topic'
[15:54:44] wizworks: thanks
[15:55:00] wizworks: ahh ok... Thanks Wag.
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[15:58:07] natanojl: stuarta: #9761 created
[15:58:18] stuarta: thanks
[15:58:49] natanojl: np
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[16:02:19] Myth-Bert (Myth-Bert!52e8e0ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.232.224.234) has joined #mythtv
[16:03:24] Myth-Bert: Hello MythtV room bonjours le Salon MythtV
[16:03:45] stuarta: #mythtv-fr
[16:03:45] Myth-Bert: esque quelqu un parle Francais ?
[16:04:13] Myth-Bert: et serai en mesur de me dire comment reactiver le setup de demarage de mythtv ?
[16:04:17] stuarta: Myth-Bert: /join #mythtv-fr
[16:04:21] Myth-Bert: sil vuos plais
[16:04:28] zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:04:34] stuarta: no parle Francais ici.
[16:04:34] zombor_ is now known as zombor
[16:04:51] Myth-Bert: Thx Stuarta ok sorry :)
[16:05:11] stuarta: no idea if what i said was even right :)
[16:05:43] Myth-Bert: does someone can indicate me how can i restart the starting setup of mythtv ? please :)
[16:08:33] Myth-Bert: stuarta are you a bot ?
[16:12:59] sphery: Myth-Bert: if you want to try in English, try #mythtv-users , pleas
[16:14:20] Myth-Bert: ok thanks SpherY , wath's language RooM it is here ? please
[16:14:47] Myth-Bert: **what's :)
[16:15:37] sphery: this is the MythTV development channel (see /topic )
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[16:35:18] Beirdo: danielk22: good point :)
[16:36:02] Beirdo: glad you're going through these with a fine-tooth comb, there are lots of things in there that have been not quite right for some time, and some new oopses too.
[16:37:20] Beirdo: danielk22: the detatched threads (mostly) can be handled by conversion to QRunnable, unless they need to do signalling
[16:40:41] Beirdo: anyways, I emailed myself the list of suspects and will take a look at them today. Thanks :) Extra eyes on the thing is always good.
[16:41:30] Beirdo: I may want to just redo them to be right though, but I'll do that on a branch, most likely. If we don't move forward, it may never get done
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[16:46:41] stuartm: Beirdo: we discussed and agreed on an immediate 0.24.1 release well over a month ago and nothing happened, I didn't see the need to re-open the discussion – nothing precludes a 0.24.2 if there are still outstanding fixes to be committed/backported but those aren't really a good enough reason to continually delay a point release (which just ensures that many users will continue to persist with a buggy 0.24 tarball)
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[17:01:58] stuartm: in fact it was further back than that, end of February was when it was mooted on the -developer list and I know that the IRC discussion was around the same time
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[17:38:09] Beirdo: well, there was discussion about doing one, yes, but nothing about when. My concern is the short notice for those who may have bugs to fix/backport.
[17:38:47] Beirdo: I guess just a follow-up to -developers stating the date we intend to release on should be enough to light the fire under their butts, as long as it isn't "doing it right now" :)
[17:39:45] Beirdo: like "0.24.1 release on Friday, May 5 unless there is a pressing need to wait"
[17:39:55] stuartm: Beirdo: if they haven't fixed/backported bugs in the 6+ months since the 0.24 release then an extra week or two isn't going to make the difference
[17:39:58] Beirdo: bet there's no need to worry, but just in case :0
[17:40:58] stuartm: there will _always_ be new bugs which need fixing, which is why we can't/won't rule out further point releases but it's one of those things that you either do frequently or not at all
[17:41:10] Beirdo: granted. :)
[17:41:42] Beirdo: do you have an exact day planned yet?
[17:42:25] stuartm: Beirdo: nope, just a time when I find I haven't got anything more pressing ;)
[17:43:15] Beirdo: OK :) You may need/want assistance converting the release procedure (which will need redocumenting) to deal with git.
[17:43:29] Beirdo: I'm around if you need a hand
[17:43:34] stuartm: tanks
[17:43:35] stuartm: thanks
[17:43:37] stuartm: too
[17:44:19] Beirdo: no problemo
[17:45:35] Beirdo: there. just sent a quickie to the list
[17:45:54] Beirdo: if anyone HAS solid concerns, they can speak up, or live with it :)
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[17:48:35] Beirdo: too bad the github network graph doesn't show the tags as well as the branches (unless I just can't find the option)
[17:48:36] stuartm: point releases never used to be so contentious ;)
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[17:49:15] Beirdo: it's not really contention, sorry... it's just make sure everyone knows as it may change when they finish things, etc.
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[17:50:38] Beirdo: I'd just hate for someone to come out the day after the release and complain they knew nothing about it, and had a patch sitting waiting to go in for (blah) reason
[17:50:53] stuartm: I see a point release being about getting the (many) finished fixes into the hands of many more users rather than setting a deadline for unfinished fixes
[17:50:57] Beirdo: we don't wanna be doing 0.24.2 a couple days later, and all :)
[17:51:03] Beirdo: maybe a few WEEKS later
[17:51:25] Beirdo: yeah
[17:51:53] Beirdo: you got a good point. :) but delaying one extra day won't kill us
[17:53:04] Beirdo: 0.24.1 is a good idea, BTW.
[17:53:42] stuartm: I think we should re-visit the issue of regularly scheduled point releases sometime so that with 0.25 we don't go for 6 months without one
[17:53:49] Beirdo: agreed
[17:54:06] Beirdo: like once every *x* amount of time on average
[17:54:32] Beirdo: dates to be shifted by +/- 1 week depending on stability, etc.
[17:55:43] stuartm: somewhere between 4 and 8 weeks would be reasonable, that's around 3 point releases per major version assuming it's a normal release with a ~6 month timeline (0.25 isn't normal)
[17:55:59] Beirdo: sounds good to me
[17:56:48] stuartm: the intent would be to limit the time that users have to live with bugs if they aren't comfortable with git or their distro doesn't ship -fixes
[17:56:52] Beirdo: I wonder how many months out we are on 0.25
[17:58:06] Beirdo: I guess we have the jobqueue rewrite, the www setup (on master), the mythtv-rec2 (dunno if that's for 0.25 or later), and the logging rewrite
[17:58:23] Beirdo: any other ongoing work (other than bug fixes)?
[17:58:48] Beirdo: I guess Mark has a bunch of stuff he's working on too, not sure how much he intends to have for 0.25
[17:59:55] Beirdo: and from the code review Daniek just finished, looks like I have 4 thread setups to rework or revert. I need to look over the particulars.
[18:00:31] Beirdo: BTW, we have a total of 91 threads in our code (core apps, plugins and libs)
[18:00:45] Beirdo: scary, huh?
[18:02:37] Beirdo: I guess another thing for 0.25 could be to once again reduce our compile warnings by redoing the code that is using now deprecated code in ffmpeg since the sync
[18:07:54] sphery: stuartm: either that or have a script to automatically roll up a new tarball of -fixes daily/weekly/monthly/whatever if it's had any commits (and have that script insert a "normal" --version string so that all users, including those who get from git or those who download tarballs, have the same version strings and get the most current fixes as of download), and only do point releases if we have to change binary/protocol/schema version for ...
[18:08:00] sphery: ... something, perhaps?
[18:08:48] Beirdo: sphery: we already basically have that possibility, but all the packagers go and break the version strings
[18:09:28] sphery: yeah, but at least for our tarballs and git, it would be the same
[18:09:53] Beirdo: it's not that hard to set the VERSION file to what git spits out :)
[18:09:57] sphery: would be especially nice, since--like you mentioned with the tags--I can never find which version branched where
[18:10:06] sphery: github's interface leaves much to be desired
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[18:10:49] sphery: so when some user says, "I'm running 0.23.1" I have no clue what fixes are there and which are later
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[18:10:54] Beirdo: yeah, but there are few good tools to make sense of parallel code paths :) gitk is our only other real option to create something like that network graph
[18:11:29] sphery: yeah, but gitk requires my having a local copy of the repo and a computer to run git tools against (versus just web/e-mail access)
[18:11:41] Beirdo: exactly
[18:12:36] sphery: We really need to get that (those?) new server(s) in place so we can put the official repo on our own server and use tools we choose with it.
[18:13:03] Beirdo: agreed. However, there is no real replacement to be had for the network graph
[18:13:07] Beirdo: that's my point :)
[18:13:08] sphery: I really hate that every commit message goes into a black hole (the git-tools-only black hole), where I can't search them on github or our Trac or ...
[18:13:14] Beirdo: as incomplete as it is...
[18:13:31] sphery: and gossamer's search of -commits mailing list isn't ideal for searching for which commit fixed what
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[18:13:38] Beirdo: you can search commit messages on githib
[18:14:13] sphery: I suppose I need some help figuring out how, then
[18:14:32] Beirdo: at least I thought I saw it once.
[18:14:52] Beirdo: anyways, cgit is a nicer interface IMHO
[18:15:03] sphery: their "Search GitHub" searches everything (and every project) and advanced search ( https://github.com/search ) seems to allow you to limit by language
[18:15:19] Beirdo: but having github is nice for the outside participation (which we do get some of)
[18:15:33] sphery: best I've been able to do is browser find-in-page for this history pages (which doesn't help when it's an old commit)
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[18:15:57] Beirdo: http://www.beirdo.ca/git/mythtv/
[18:15:58] sphery: yeah, I think github should stay, but official repo should be on our servers with github repo pulling from them
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[18:16:07] Beirdo: you can always use my cgit for now :)
[18:16:21] Beirdo: yeah, agreed.
[18:16:36] sphery: or we need to better integrate github with trac so we don't lose all this history (but it seems that may not be possible with the tools/info they give us)
[18:16:45] Beirdo: or our server pushing to github (which is likely how it works)
[18:16:56] Beirdo: yeah, it is the suck
[18:17:13] sphery: ah, ok--I never claimed to know how to properly set up git stuff :)... but yeah, that makes sense
[18:17:22] Beirdo: of course, you already know that I kinda don't like trac, but that's beside the point
[18:17:43] wagnerrp: right now, trac requires a local git repo to poll everything
[18:17:43] Beirdo: it's a tool
[18:17:55] wagnerrp: so its not like github is really making a difference one way or another in that regard
[18:17:57] Beirdo: yup, and it doesn't cache squat
[18:18:07] wagnerrp: the git support in trac is just poor regardless
[18:18:12] Beirdo: yup
[18:18:19] sphery: heh, yeah--but if nothing else, it was somewhat useful in that it would show you commits and tickets in searches and show which tickets were closed and which werent (oh, and we need wagnerrp's universal commit/revision translator put in place :)
[18:18:28] Beirdo: now, we could put it on ourselves to make that better :)
[18:18:34] Beirdo: it is
[18:18:48] Beirdo: I don't remember the URL, but didn't that go in last week/week before?
[18:19:11] wagnerrp: sphery: but it was __so__slow__ to do so
[18:20:12] Beirdo: I need to find time/reason to learn a pile of python so I can lend a hand making the trac/git integration better, etc
[18:21:23] Beirdo: I guess I have part of the reason already, don't I? :)
[18:21:31] sphery: I meant put in place so that if you click a link like all the revision ones on http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24 (or any previous version), it will automatically take you to the git-repo-viewer (currently github) page for that change
[18:21:41] sphery: ah, seems it's there
[18:21:55] sphery: but unfortunately, doesn't catch links in mailing list archive messages
[18:22:04] sphery: because it was changed to use svnredirect
[18:22:04] Beirdo: and can't
[18:22:33] Beirdo: you want mailman to modify the emails to put in URLs?
[18:22:52] Beirdo: that could be interesting. And once again... python
[18:22:53] Beirdo: heh
[18:23:09] Beirdo: you snake-wranglers...
[18:23:10] sphery: no, I want us to have a redirect/rewrite at the URI that was formerly used
[18:23:44] Beirdo: I guess I'm just not getting it. You can run it past me sometime, we'll get it all figured out :)
[18:29:39] sphery: Beirdo: I just mean that we should have something at svn.mythtv.org/trac and cvs.mythtv.org/trac that sends you to the real thing... Currently, we redirect to github and it 404s. I'd like to be able to search the commits list (since I can't search trac for commit messages :) and find something like http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 97899#397899 , I can click http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/21925 and it will "do the ...
[18:29:45] sphery: ... right thing"
[18:31:16] Beirdo: ahhh
[18:31:24] Beirdo: hmm
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[19:15:11] davide_: wagnerrp: are you around?
[19:15:49] wagnerrp: yes
[19:16:08] davide_: this isn't myth related, but i hope you can help anyway.
[19:16:21] wagnerrp: shoot
[19:17:21] davide_: i need to add a web service interface to access a database. i know enough python to be dangerous. do you have any recommendations for a simple, lightweight, python toolkit to use?
[19:17:54] wagnerrp: to be honest, xris would probably have more experience with that than i
[19:18:05] wagnerrp: everything ive done is mostly the core modules only
[19:19:20] davide_: ok. all i think i need is something to recieve the http requests, give it to me, and then encode the results into json, xml or whatever. json is all i really need for now.
[19:19:26] davide_: xris: ^^^
[19:19:39] wagnerrp: twisted is the big project, but ive never used it
[19:21:10] stuarta: why not just do a bi-monthly point release
[19:21:39] davide_: i've heard of zope before, but believe that's much more than i need. i'm looking at web page (http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks) that lists several. more than i was expecting just thought i'd ask if you knew of any you liked.
[19:22:03] Beirdo: stuarta: yeah, we could plan on that, sounds reasonable to me
[19:22:39] Beirdo: as long as we are careful not to release royal stinkers if they can be fixed in a reasonable amount of time
[19:27:32] xris: davide_: I've been playing with oursql for db stuff, gevent for super-lightweight http server
[19:27:54] stuarta: well hopefully, by definition, -fixes is never broken
[19:27:57] xris: I have a json-rpc server written for gevent, but unfortunately it's for work and I don't have permission to share it
[19:28:02] davide_: xris: thanks. i'll take a look.
[19:28:30] davide_: at oursql, that is.
[19:28:40] xris: oursql is just a low level mysql driver
[19:28:55] xris: only other options I could find were ORMs, which I despise.
[19:29:53] davide_: how does oursql relate to the MySQLdb python module, then.
[19:30:06] xris: no clue.
[19:30:52] davide_: ok. thanks.
[19:34:21] xris: I've only been a python guy for about 2 weeks. just dove into it pretty deeply
[19:36:48] davide_: i'd dabbled with it a little over the last few years, but have been using it for a few months now for my current, day job, projects, because id rather use/learn it than perl or java.
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[19:41:44] xris: I'd prefer perl. but already know it really well. and there are fewer really good perl devs around than python
[19:44:18] davide_: i never acquired a taste for perl.
[19:45:03] wagnerrp: stuarta: would bi-monthly be twice a month or every other month
[19:47:27] xris: davide_: perl's the reason I don't have a taste for python.  :) but I'll admit that it's more difficult to do true OO stuff in perl
[19:51:00] kormoc: wagnerrp, both!
[19:51:17] wagnerrp: so... the former
[19:51:25] kormoc: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bimonthly
[19:51:51] wagnerrp: well crap
[19:51:58] wagnerrp: thats completely useless
[19:52:32] kormoc: could mean twice a month every other month
[19:54:36] xris: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/semimonthly
[19:54:49] xris: bimonthly is generally understood to mean every other month
[19:55:50] kormoc: that's not my experience with finance. I get paid bimonthly, or twice a month
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[19:59:47] xris: kormoc: really? everywhere I've worked stressed semi-monthly because of bimonthly's dual meaning
[20:01:08] superm1: i think it's a confusion potentially because of british english. if you read the usage notes at the bottom of http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/biweekly they probably apply to other words too
[20:06:48] xris: apparently so
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[20:52:17] stuartm: in the UK we'd almost always use fortnightly to mean 'every two weeks'
[20:55:46] stuartm: it's messy, biannual meaning twice a year is in common usage, so bi-weekly is assumed to mean twice a week by many .... biannual vs biennial also seems to trip up a lot of people
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[21:45:37] pushpop: Before I google the crap out of my question maybe I can find a fast answer. I have a Xbox360 and I want to play my MKV files with a nice media manager. Any way to get Myth working on xbox360
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[21:47:22] danielk22: pushpop: no
[21:49:54] pushpop: dan
[21:50:06] pushpop: m
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[22:31:03] jya: xris: here bimonthly always means twice a month
[22:31:32] jya: but fortnightly is more often used
[22:32:37] xris: jya: crazy UK-english-grammar.
[22:32:52] xris: you AU guys didn't rebel enough.  ;)
[22:33:36] jya: well, in French, bimensuel also means twice a month
[22:34:02] jya: bi-something means in most language twice in something
[22:34:17] jya: it's the US who has perverted the course of language to means something entirely different
[22:34:21] jya: just like billions
[22:34:56] jya: unfortunately, billions means 1,000,000,000 almost everywhere now...
[22:35:56] jya: but billions in UK, France originally meant 1 000 000 000 000
[22:36:13] jya: anyhow, got to go to work...
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[22:39:51] xris: yeah, in spanish there's a "thousand millions" number between millions and billions
[22:40:13] xris: confused the heck out of me for awhile when I got back to the US and tried to do high school math.
[22:50:23] ** stuarta meant every 2 months **
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