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Monday, February 14th, 2011, 20:47 UTC
[20:47:01] elmojo: sphery, abqjp, iamlindoro: yes, I'm running 10.04 Ubuntu and only had to power-cycle one of my HD-PVRs once in about 5 weeks of use – my other tuners (dvb pci) are rock solid and haven't encountered any issue at all
[20:47:40] elmojo: abqjp: do you have any ideas why the "Payload start" takes so long with the HD-PVR?
[20:47:48] elmojo: sounds like it might be out of our control
[20:47:53] iamlindoro: elmojo: as a counterpoint, I have one DVB tuner that was rock solid on 10.04 and earlier, which now resets the driver every time you try to record
[20:48:06] iamlindoro: my dmesg is full of firmware re-re-re-re-reuploads
[20:48:13] elmojo: for 10.10?
[20:48:15] iamlindoro: yep
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[20:48:38] elmojo: maybe we should post a warning or put it on the website to avoid 10.10
[20:48:40] abqjp: elmojo: I am guessing that it may have something to do with keyframes being over 2 seconds apart.
[20:48:59] sphery: elmojo: coupled with hearsay from the list (where it seems most who are reporting the issues upgraded to 10.10 /and/ 0.24-fixes at the same time)...
[20:49:22] iamlindoro: elmojo: I'd hate for my single data point to be responsible for a warning like that-- what we really need is people to go from .23 to .24 on 10.04, then test the same upgrade on 10.10, etc.
[20:49:29] sphery: but--at least for me--it's all conjecture and I have no proof (and it may well be upstream kernel or V4L/DVB changes that just haven't settled out right or something)
[20:49:40] elmojo: abqjp: oh yeah, forgot about that, isn't there a backend setting to tell it to wait for that or not?
[20:49:43] abqjp: elmojo: To me, the "proper" fix would be no interruption at all .... Have Myth do all the preparation work for the new file before making the "switch", so it is seemless. Might take spawning a thread to do the work.
[20:50:47] elmojo: abqjp: sounds scary – seemless file switching for a stream would be cool though – right now this causes the user to lose 2 – 9 seconds of recordings at the transition point
[20:52:45] tgm4883: elmojo, iamlindoro i've had to powercycle my HDPVR on 10.04 w/ 0.24 as it will apparenlty get stuck "recording" and all following recordings are 0-byte length
[20:52:54] tgm4883: as it looks like that is what you are discussing
[20:53:13] iamlindoro: tgm4883: Resetting HD-PVR hardware is aside from all that
[20:53:27] iamlindoro: the HD-PVR hardware getting hung up isn't something we can do anything about
[20:53:27] elmojo: tgm4883: we are discussing the state of the dvb drivers in recent distro/kernel releases
[20:53:32] abqjp: I have not looked at the code, so I don't know how scary it would be. I did notice that you get that two second pause even if you are behind Live, when the file switch happens. So, it is not just loosing some of the show, but the delay in starting to *read* from the new file. That delay in reading could be harder to fix.
[20:53:45] iamlindoro: The issue at hand here appears independent of tuner type
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[20:54:27] elmojo: abqjp: yes, the actual playback ringbuffer switch is an entirely different issue
[20:54:29] iamlindoro: But *does* tend to coincide with a total distro upgrade, often to the latest, which is in turn blamed on myth as the most obvious probably culprit-- just that in this case, it may not actually *be* the culprit since little has changed that could have caused such a pandemic
[20:55:10] elmojo: tgm4883: so when your HD-PVR gets in the "dead" state does cat'ing the video device yield video?
[20:55:22] elmojo: wondering if it's the control side that is getting hosed
[20:55:28] sphery: abqjp: out of curiosity, which distro/version are you using?
[20:55:33] abqjp: Fedora 13
[20:55:34] tgm4883: elmojo, haven't tried, but I'll certainly do it next time to test
[20:56:08] elmojo: tgm4883: even if it's still recording that doesn't help us if we can't communicate/control the device
[20:56:26] sphery: someone on the thread mentioned seeing the problems after upgrading to F14 (from F13)... maybe it's just upstream kernel or V4L/DVB or drivers or ... Anyone want to compare version info for F13->F14 and Ubuntu 10.04 -> 10.10?
[20:56:32] tgm4883: elmojo, ok, the only indication that I see that it thinks it's recording is the blue halo is lit up
[20:56:52] abqjp: tgm4883: I have a patch which (in theory) tells the HD-PVR to switch to a different video input, and then back, when it has trouble with the HD-PVR. I have not had any luck testing it though, since I only have that problem about every 7–9 weeks — So I don't know if it helps or not.
[20:57:39] elmojo: abqjp: are you saying that since you've put your patch into use you haven't had an issue? :)
[20:57:42] tgm4883: abqjp, yea it would be nice to know if something common causes it that we can reproduce
[20:58:09] tgm4883: elmojo, the issue is infrequent
[20:58:18] abqjp: elmojo: according to my logs, that code has not been triggered.
[20:58:48] elmojo: ah, cool, should be interesting when it happens if it helps
[20:58:58] abqjp: tgm4883: if you want to try the patch give me your email address and I will send it to you.
[20:59:39] elmojo: abqjp: I'd like to try it too – between the 3 of us we should be to trigger more quickly
[20:59:53] elmojo: you can send to my mythtv.org alias
[21:00:12] abqjp: elmojo: will do.
[21:00:54] tgm4883: abqjp, possible bad side effects of the patch?
[21:01:08] abqjp: I can't imagine any.
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[21:01:28] tgm4883: ok, shoot it to my email, i'll review it and talk it over with superm1
[21:01:45] tgm4883: I'll see if I can get some other volunteers as well
[21:02:01] abqjp: I suppose it is possible that the first input switch could succeed, and the switch back could fail...
[21:02:31] abqjp: It may have no effect at all, but it is the only thing I can think of to "reset" the HD-PVR in software.
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[21:05:57] sphery: sounds like you guys may be able to trigger the patch more easily by upgrading to F14 or Ubuntu 10.10 :)
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[21:07:35] elmojo: abqjp: one of my HD-PVRs failed while I was away this past week – I have the logs – are they of any interest to you?
[21:08:33] tgm4883: abqjp, elmojo would you want to gather any version info on other packages besides mythtv to assist in this issue?
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[21:09:05] elmojo: abqjp: this repeated in my logs until I rebooted -> 2011-02–12 20:03:56.051 AnalogSM(/dev/video-hdpvr0), Error: Start encoding failed
[21:09:05] elmojo: eno: Resource temporarily unavailable (11)
[21:09:31] elmojo: abqjp: is that the issue your patch tries to help with?
[21:09:32] abqjp: elmojo, Five of those in a row would trigger the new code
[21:09:40] elmojo: awesome!
[21:10:10] abqjp: elmojo: is you email elmojo at myth ?
[21:10:41] elmojo: sent PM
[21:12:15] abqjp: I sshed into my home machine and got the patch, so you should have it.
[21:12:40] elmojo: abqjp: does your patch save the current recording?
[21:15:06] abqjp: I am not sure I understand the question. When the recording starts, the Signal Monitor is started to make sure the HD-PVR is producing valid output. The recording won't start until the Signal Monitor indicates that everything is fine. That patch tells the Signal Monitor to toggle the input of the HD-PVR if it is getting those resource errors.
[21:15:29] elmojo: abqjp: ok, I understand now
[21:17:44] tgm4883: hmm, i wonder what happens if it toggles it and the errors continue
[21:17:52] tgm4883: keeps toggling thousands of times?
[21:18:49] abqjp: tgm4883: it would toggle once for every 5 resource errors.
[21:19:15] tgm4883: abqjp, hmm, might want to build something in there as a limiter
[21:19:46] tgm4883: just seems bad to toggle it repeatedly as that could be thousands of times if it doesn't stop the errors
[21:19:56] abqjp: tgm4883: agreed. This was really just a proof of concept. Spur of the moment for me to offer to let others try it.
[21:20:53] abqjp: tgm4883: if you are comfortable modifying the code, then go for it. Otherwise, I can send you a more sane implementation when I get home.
[21:21:22] tgm4883: abqjp, i'm not able to look at it right now
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[21:21:46] abqjp: np. I will try to remember to send you something new tonight.
[21:21:53] tgm4883: I'm assuming it is C, which isn't Python, so I'll probably be no good at editing it :/
[21:22:20] abqjp: tgm4883: yup
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[21:32:39] sphery: tgm4883: as far as version differences between F13 and F14, j-rod may be able to help collect those?
[21:41:19] iamlindoro: http://www.fecitfacta.com/logos.png
[21:41:22] iamlindoro: Someone post that in theming
[21:41:26] iamlindoro: since I can't :P
[21:42:48] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch: ^^
[21:43:00] iamlindoro: thanks :)
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[21:44:00] j-rod: whassat?
[21:44:48] iamlindoro: Just some random goofing around since I am not a big fan of our logo
[21:45:50] wagnerrp: i know its our namesake, but ive never really liked that phrase 'mythical convergence device'
[21:46:57] j-rod: must have netflix for true convergence...
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[21:47:24] wagnerrp: how could you possibly consider building a home theater application without netflix support???
[21:47:25] j-rod: but yeah, the logo really could use a refresh
[21:48:05] j-rod: the 'launch vmware player' approach is interesting
[21:48:40] wagnerrp: i was actually thinking about that a few days ago... would qtwebkit be able to support silverlight on windows/osx?
[21:48:44] j-rod: I presume mythnetvision could do netflix if there were appropriate silverlight support
[21:48:59] j-rod: heh. exactly what I was thinking :)
[21:49:02] iamlindoro: assuming that silverlight support extended to Qt/Webkit, sure
[21:49:25] j-rod: webkit and silverlight definitely get along fine
[21:49:36] iamlindoro: If their streaming catalog has an API, it could theoretically already work on Windows/OS X
[21:49:46] j-rod: at least, there's a silverlight plugin that works fine with netflix under safari on mac os x
[21:50:01] iamlindoro: Would need some minor tweaks to MNV to handle the authentication parts, but probably not all that much
[21:50:06] j-rod: its got a pretty rich api, from what I understand
[21:50:14] iamlindoro: Well, sure, but Webkit != Qt/Webkit
[21:50:21] iamlindoro: close, but not identical anyway
[21:50:31] j-rod: yeah, that's why I was qualifying it
[21:50:54] iamlindoro: Anyway, probably wouldn't be the world's toughest project to add, but I don't have Netflix so no interest
[21:51:17] iamlindoro: (which obviously again presumes Qt/Webkit + Silverlight on Mac and Windows are all cool)
[21:52:51] wagnerrp: bug reports would indicate its at least partially functional... http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTWEBKIT-223
[21:55:43] iamlindoro: Maybe I could get someone to bankroll a few years of netflix if I add support ;)
[21:55:46] j-rod: plex has a netflix "plugin"
[21:56:08] j-rod: not sure exactly what its using under the covers though
[21:56:09] iamlindoro: Then again, that would also presuppose fixing issues with python bindings installing on both windows and OS X
[21:56:21] iamlindoro: Which means free netflix for wagnerrp too ;)
[21:56:39] j-rod: heh
[21:56:46] j-rod: they do offer a month free to try it out
[21:57:03] j-rod: I don't care enough to bankroll it myself, I've got umpteen other devices that do netflix now
[21:57:46] j-rod: wd tv live hub is working reasonably well for mythtv recordings playback over upnp, netflix streaming, and movies via local copies
[22:00:39] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: yeah, i should look into how to install those properly one of these days
[22:00:45] wagnerrp: i dont think it would take much
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[22:01:08] wagnerrp: i dont think any of the actual code uses stuff that wouldnt work on linux
[22:01:28] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: It tends to be the primary limiting factor in getting MNV to work on those platforms-- or rather, it theoretically is the only one, as MNV should work fine on either so long as its deps are met
[22:03:06] wagnerrp: the problem i have is that every windows application ive ever seen that uses python includes its own copy of the interpreter
[22:03:10] wagnerrp: i dont want to do that
[22:03:46] Unhelpful: haven't used mythtv in ages, and i'm trying to set it up on a new system. mythtv has appropriate GRANTs on mythconverg, but it hangs filling the initial DB. -v database shows *no* queries executed after it gets the schema lock, it just prints 'Upgrading to MythTV schema version 1226' and then sits.. this is mythtv v0.24 on arch linux. any ideas?
[22:03:53] wagnerrp: i dont know what the proper mechanism for finding it through the environment would be
[22:04:11] iamlindoro: Unhelpful: wrong channel, see /topic
[22:04:36] Unhelpful: oh! terribly sorry, didn't even notice! actually used to develop, but clearly this is a user problem. ;)
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[22:55:15] j-rod: wagnerrp: I care not about what Windows does. Mac OS X at least has a sane python of its own out of the box. :)
[22:55:34] j-rod: (granted, its a somewhat dated one now — 2.6.1)
[23:03:24] sphery: markk: Why I think we should just drop the animation rate and sort out the broken animations later: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/472059#472059 (and that topic has been coming up, regularly, since 0.22 or so).
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[23:54:24] markk: sphery: I couldn't agree more – but after last week's discussion, I decided that I needed to step away from the UI stuff. It's a can of worms. I'm more than happy to help out on any rendering/painting type issues and implementations but I just don't have the time to start pushing/leading on it
[23:55:41] sphery: heh, fair enough. I'll try pushing stuartm to let us change it to /30 (or some other value the UI guys can agree on) and see what breaks
[23:56:05] sphery: (knowing full well he's said he doesn't have any connection to the /70 that's there, now)
[23:56:56] sphery: just want his (and iamlindoro's and ...) agreement since he has a couple of themes that may need fixing in the wake of the change
[23:57:44] iamlindoro: I've never had any control over animation speed before, I doubt I'll have to make any changes :)
Tuesday, February 15th, 2011
[00:02:58] dblain: 07stuartm: 01regarding your question "does VS require the use of those directives, i.e. it won't export/import all by default, or are they just nice to have?" VS requires the directives in order to export symbols as well as import them. The only alternative I know of is manually creating a .def file and using an import .lib file... very old school and difficult to keep in sync.
[00:04:59] dblain: I don't understand the comments about having compiler specific crap in the code... if anything I'm removing it by using QT macros. And the only compiler specific stuff was the GCC logic which was there before.
[00:07:49] markk: but while I'm drinking the first coffee of the day – what we really need is to bite the bullet and use alpha pulse as a 'test bed' for a more feature rich UI. Make the alpha value part of a statetype, add some functionality about it moves from one state to the next etc. Then we start to get buttons fading in and out, use it on normal items for pulsing etc. Tie it into widget events (when you become visible, start in this state, do something, m
[00:07:50] markk: ove to this state).
[00:08:30] markk: if we can crack that for alpha, it's then easily extended to zoom, rotation, blur etc etc
[00:10:25] sphery: markk: heh, be careful or people will start to expect you to get that working :) (and, wow, that would be wonderful--but I understand why you may not want to take it on at this time)
[00:13:09] danielk22: dblain: Given that info, your solution sounds like the most elegant option.
[00:27:56] dblain: danielk22: thanks. I'll give it a day or two and see what happens on the mailing list. Not sure who can give the offical go ahead now-a-days.
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[00:39:11] GreyFoxx: dmesg
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[01:08:11] elmojo: sphery, iamlindoro: one thing that can be tried for people experiencing dvb problems on 10.10 is to compile the dvb drivers from the Mercurial repo – I think they are now quite old and aren't upto date with the drivers provided by the kernel
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[01:37:29] elmojo: Beirdo: have you had a chance to compare ffmpeg, mediainfo and commflag generated duration?
[01:37:37] elmojo: wondering how close they are to each other
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[01:39:28] Beirdo: not yet, nope
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[02:48:12] danielk22: sphery: Just reading up the mythtv recording reliability thread. Any HD-PVR problems introduced between 0.23 and 0.24 may be due to john poet's tuning changes, but any DVB or other issues are most like changes in the drivers that we have not yet adjusted for.
[02:50:25] danielk22: Some of the issues people are complaining about, such as sending NTSC/ATSC commands to an HD-PVR are 1 completely harmless and hence red-herrings and 2 fixed in the mythtv-rec branch. However, reliability with the mythtv-rec branch is quite low for DVB and HD-PVR recorders.. so I wouldn't recommend anyone switch at the moment :)
[02:50:48] sphery: danielk22: yeah, it seems to be happening frequently on newer distros (Ubuntu 10.10 and Fedora F14) and seems to hit everything from HD-PVR to HDHR to ivtv and even DVB-API cards. I'll admit I'm still running an old (and proven on my 0.23-fixes system) kernel with my 0.24-fixes, so newer drivers/changes to driver API (or behaviors) makes sense to me
[02:52:22] sphery: Heh, cool--I figured the SetInputAndFormat() stuff wasn't important--but didn't know the recorder well enough to make the assertion on list. If nothing else, when the fix from mythtv-rec goes in, it will be nice to quiet an unimportant message that scares users with other issues.
[02:55:33] sphery: danielk22: FWIW, though his suggestion may be a bit too course-grained, I don't know if this might trigger some ideas for you: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/472073#472073 (i.e. do we have some states we're not handling properly).
[02:56:02] danielk22: I don't think it's really Ubuntu or Fedora to blame, the V4L drivers have been getting more brain-dead..I've tried to adjust for that in the mythtv-rec branch.
[02:56:47] sphery: Yeah, the fact that it's happening across distros--and only newer distros--seems to point to changes in the V4L/DVB code upstream.
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[02:58:06] sphery: possibly related to the gossamer post up above, kisak in -users posted http://pastie.org/1554856 , which shows 6624_20110211210000.mpg not existing and shows an "Updating status for Supernatural:Unforgiven" but none for "Started recording: "CSI: NY":"Smooth Criminal""
[02:58:35] sphery: at least none until the end, where it's set to recorded
[03:00:07] danielk22: What I'd like to do for HD-PVR is not suspend the recording when the signal monitor stops and then restart recording a couple seconds later; since it sometimes fails on that second try. For DVB I don't know what the problem is.
[03:00:50] sphery: I think kisak's CSI: NY failure was on his HDHR
[03:01:05] danielk22: There _are_ race conditions that were introduced in the Qt4 port that I only recently discovered. But those would be just as prevalent with 0.23 and 0.24.
[03:03:56] danielk22: sphery: HDHR is it's own ball of wax. But if that has problems & DVB has the same problems, it may be the same issue...
[03:05:57] danielk22: The last few HDHR lib patches we got from SiliconDust had a high bogosity level; I thought we would get a good sync before the 0.24 release, but AFAIK it didn't happen.
[03:05:59] sphery: then again, thinking about it, that might be the known HDHR issue where if you configure it with IP addresses instead of the auto-detect HDHR, the 2nd recording breaks the first (or something like that-- wagnerrp knows details)
[03:06:37] danielk22: sphery: That one was from one of the bad syncs.
[03:07:07] danielk22: I'm just using my HDHR as an IR detector right now, not as a recorder.
[03:07:28] sphery: yeah, we included the new lib before 0.24, and it returned... wagnerrp figured out that it was due to specifying IP instead of autodetecting
[03:07:30] wagnerrp: it happened with one of our syncs before 0.23, was reverted, and then reintroduced with their devs wrote an updated version
[03:07:39] wagnerrp: their own application works just fine
[03:07:47] wagnerrp: so its got to be some weird interaction with their libs and our code
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[03:09:55] danielk22: wagnerrp: They app allows specifying the recorder to use using the "ip_addr"-"rec_num" notation ?
[03:13:02] wagnerrp: yes
[03:14:04] wagnerrp: i havent actually tried recording to a file, but at least checking the status properly polls the correct tuner
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[04:36:57] elmojo: jpabq: just backported some hdpvr driver changes and they make things much faster!
[04:38:00] Beirdo: elmojo: faster in what part?
[04:40:04] elmojo: starting LiveTV and channel changes so far – testing LiveTV transitions now
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[04:47:39] jpabq-: elmojo, backported from what kernel? Or, are they not included in a released kernel yet?
[04:47:56] Beirdo: well, that's cool to hear
[04:49:37] elmojo: jpabq-: I'm just going through the git commit log for the v4l-dvb repo and backporting to the v4l-dvb backport Hg repo
[04:50:22] jpabq-: Sounds tedious
[04:50:36] elmojo: it's only a few lines actually
[04:50:55] elmojo: removed some timeouts and reduced one timeout from 1.25s to 0.09 secs
[04:51:02] elmojo: which was in a loop :)
[04:51:18] elmojo: apparently making it work just like the windows driver
[04:51:42] elmojo: I can send you a patch if you are ever interested
[04:51:56] jpabq-: Does that impact how long it takes to "stop encoding"?
[04:52:13] elmojo: I think so yes
[04:52:24] elmojo: when draining the buffers
[04:52:34] jpabq-: Cool.
[04:53:18] elmojo: does anyone know of a working pastebin service?
[04:53:55] cesman: http://pastebin.com/ appears to be up and working
[04:53:58] jpabq-: I need to update my myth. Progress bar during playback is way off.
[04:55:28] elmojo: http://pastebin.com/3uDANJsX
[04:55:37] markk: can anyone remind me of the policy on dynamically loading libraries at runtime? I seem to remember it's discouraged.
[04:56:48] cesman: those are small changes!
[04:56:48] jpabq-: elmojo, got it.
[04:56:54] cesman: elmojo: thanks
[04:58:31] elmojo: jpabq-: still looks like transitions are slow though :(
[04:59:33] jpabq-: :(
[04:59:46] elmojo: jpabq: what kernel version are you running?
[05:00:09] jpabq-: 2.6.34.7–66.fc13
[05:03:58] elmojo: jpabq-: progress bar is off in what way? is this with HD-PVR material?
[05:08:21] elmojo: markk: doesn't the bluray code do this for decryption?
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[05:12:03] markk: elmojo: yes, and dvd, but slightly different use case – i.e. one library loading another as needed/available. I am looking at the SSA/ASS subtitle patches – which depend on libass
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[05:52:37] jpabq-: elmojo, yes, HD-PVR stuff. I just upgraded to latest trunk hoping that would fix it, but it did not (although the shows in question where recorded over the last few days). The problem is only with some shows. With an hour long show, I can type in 30 and hit 'I' to jump to the middle, but the progress bar will only go to the 5 minute mark. I think it is actually playing back in the right place, though. Kinda odd.
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[14:33:11] danielk22: markk: I wanted to dynamically load video acceleration libraries some years ago and it was discouraged then, but that was because X.org was writing a wrapper for those libraries. The wrapper never really panned out though, until vdpau was available I always explicitly linked the nvidia libs and bypassed the broken x.org wrapper.
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[15:28:49] elmojo: jpabq-: I wonder if the duration is off or the actual display timestamp is wrong – did the position go past the 5 minute mark after it started playing?
[15:36:19] jpabq-: elmojo, you just caught me — I will sign in later, but quickly-- The progress bar shows the correct *total* show length, but the current position doesn't get much beyond the 5 minute mark, even when the show is near the end. If I edit the cutlist while watching the show, it's progress bar is correct. While editing, moving by frames and keyframes seems to work fine.
[15:36:34] jpabq-: Does not happen on every recording though. gotta go.
[15:37:09] elmojo: jpabq-: ok, we'll have to debug later then
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[17:12:57] iamlindoro: markk: Hmm, I just closed a ticket invalid, but does https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/5ec80 . . . 8047e2e08ea2 need backporting?
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[17:16:06] iamlindoro: n/m, found the backport
[17:16:11] iamlindoro: sorry for the noise
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[19:22:55] sphery: stuartm: Yesterday I mentioned to markk that I think we should just drop the animation rate in master, and then sort out any broken animations as they're identified. The reason is because users keep bringing it up. From yesterday: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/472059#472059 and from today: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/472104#472104
[19:23:47] sphery: I dropped mine to 30 (versus 70) and it seems fine in Arclight--though the pulsing is much slower (about 3/7 speed :). I'm sure if we wanted it the same speed as before, we could just drop the animation steps.
[19:25:10] sphery: I just wanted to know if you (or anyone else) has any strong objections to changing the animation rate (since you, especially, have a couple of themes that may require fixing). If not, I'd really like to have someone, like danielk, come up with a good rate, and change it. Thanks.
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