MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

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Saturday, November 27th, 2010, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:31] Beirdo: yeah. sad.
[00:01:56] danielk22: It's just they way things are.. even if we lower requirements the general trend is always for greater HW requirements.. but the software really does do more stuff.
[00:03:13] danielk22: WordStar felt much faster than MS Office, but it was also running at 80x25, text only.
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[00:52:12] iamlindoro: Heh, so I'm sure this won't make some people happy, but since the recent seektable fixes, all of mine are way, way broken
[00:52:22] iamlindoro: A 60 minute recording has a 28 hour duration, etc.
[00:53:22] iamlindoro: well, I can't actually tell if it's the seektable of duration guessing that's at fault
[00:53:42] iamlindoro: It *does* actually only play until the 60:00 point
[00:54:15] iamlindoro: and appears to be playing the whole recording... it's just that it gives 28 hours as the total duration
[01:16:43] Beirdo: recorded with what? and is this only new recordings or old ones as well?
[01:17:33] Captain_Murdoch: was there also a mod to get the duration from the libav* code?
[01:17:39] Beirdo: yes
[01:17:52] Captain_Murdoch: so could be that instead of hte seektable stuff if it's only the duration that's off.
[01:17:58] Beirdo: elmojo put that in a few days back
[01:18:15] Beirdo: yeah, that's what I was wondering. Which one of us needs to dig into it :)
[01:20:57] Beirdo: simplest way to differentiate would be to look at the recordedseek contents for a whacked out file... find the last frame number, divide by the expected frame rate
[01:21:34] Beirdo: if the frame number is out of whack, I'd suspect the seektable changes. If it's OK, I'd suspect the duration code
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[01:58:47] davide: what's the magic command to backport a single revision from trunk to 0.24-fixes, svn merge -c N <what>?
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[01:59:11] jya: svn merge -c revision_number path_or_url_to_trunk
[02:01:34] davide: jya: thanks. this was my first time to do that and i didn't want to mess up the mergeinfo that seemed to have been problematic the last couple of weeks.
[02:02:18] jya: to revert the change, you use a negative revision number..
[02:02:35] jya: yeah, those mergeinfo locations are a tad messy
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[02:10:22] elmojo: iamlindoro: it's probably the duration code
[02:10:41] elmojo: please keep the recording
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[02:22:03] Beirdo: anyone have any idea *if* CD burning works in mythmusic?
[02:22:39] Beirdo: the code's there, but I can't seem to make it actually ever bring up a menu from anywhere to let me use it
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[03:06:45] jya: tralph: re: 9282... The issue is with avfd calling the audio with way too samples at a time
[03:08:40] jya: actually, the issue is that the audio buffer size isn't matching the worse case scenario of AVCODEC_MAX_AUDIO_FRAME_SIZE
[03:09:18] elmojo: jya: thanks for looking into it
[03:10:11] jya: I need to find out now, if indeed the buffer allocated in the audio class is too small, of if ffmpeg returns more frame than asked sometimes..
[03:10:30] jya: elmojo: no probs, I'm bored today, so this bug was very welcomed..
[03:10:51] elmojo: hehe... I got some more if you'd like :)
[03:11:33] jya: everyone here is asleep (it's 2PM), it rains like a cow having a piss.. what a day !
[03:13:39] jya: quite amazing that asf sample.. 50MB seems to go forever.. I shorten the sample to 5MB, and it still goes for over 20s
[03:14:04] jya: what kind of compression are they using?
[03:15:58] elmojo: yuck, wmav2
[03:16:09] elmojo: err, wmv3
[03:16:44] elmojo: 1400 kb/s so it's much lower than we are used to with HD broadcast
[03:28:10] jya: well, that fixed the assert error, but it is still playing too fast..
[03:28:25] jya: timecode seems screwed up now
[03:28:51] jya: it plays 4 times too fast
[03:34:41] elmojo: Beirdo: where's the code that actually builds the position map?
[03:54:04] Beirdo: elmojo: it's in dtvrecorder.cpp, mainly
[03:55:22] Beirdo: in the ProcessMPEG2Frames (for TS) and ProcessPSFrames or something like that for PS
[03:56:03] Beirdo: the actual counting is done in the decoder, and then we call a common function to insert into the map, which gets sent to the db
[04:01:31] elmojo: Beirdo: so that's for in-progress recordings... but what about rebuilding position maps?
[04:02:48] Beirdo: ahhh
[04:03:02] Beirdo: one sec
[04:04:29] Beirdo: it's driven from MythCommFlagPlayer::RebuildSeekTable
[04:04:52] Beirdo: in libs/libmythtv/mythcommflagplayer.cpp
[04:05:34] Beirdo: the actual counting is done in GetFrame() in the avformatdecoder, IIRC
[04:07:06] Beirdo: at about :4345 (in my copy)
[04:10:12] Beirdo: and at :2723 in AvFormatDecoder::HandleGopStart(), we put keyframes into the map
[04:11:40] Beirdo: It's all rather convoluted... is that enough detail to get you started? :)
[04:18:47] elmojo: Beirdo: thanks, it's at least a head start :)
[04:19:41] Beirdo: it took me a fair amount of digging to wind my way through it before, so... not surprising it's a bit of a "huh?" to others too :)
[04:21:48] elmojo: Beirdo: Cool – so I should just be able to add up a running duration total like we do packet counts
[04:22:18] elmojo: do we store total frames in the database?
[04:22:19] Beirdo: yeah, we should be able to
[04:22:34] Beirdo: it will store the last keyframe
[04:22:59] Beirdo: I considered adding a last frame while I was tinkering, but don't think I did
[04:23:10] elmojo: that would be useful
[04:23:14] elmojo: plus duration
[04:23:21] Beirdo: but last keyframe should be within 20 frames or so off worst case, no?
[04:23:23] elmojo: then we can easily compute avg_frame_rate
[04:23:28] Beirdo: yeah
[04:23:33] elmojo: and use the duration if ffmpeg gives a bogus value
[04:23:47] Beirdo: ahhh, which is what iamlindoro was likely seeing?
[04:23:50] elmojo: but I'd still like to fix ffmepg if it's a bug and not a broken timestamp issue
[04:23:58] elmojo: that's my guess
[04:24:11] Beirdo: sounds like a reasonable guess
[04:24:40] Beirdo: I was considering adding a column in the recordedseek and recordedmarkup table for timestamp
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[04:24:57] Beirdo: but that's a reasonably large change
[04:25:21] Beirdo: and I'm kinda in the middle of another larger change, so I backburnered the thought for now
[04:25:43] Beirdo: now sure what units we'd want... millisecond? microsecond? I dunno
[04:25:51] elmojo: iamlindoro: I'm about to call it a night.... if you could run the recording for the entire duration with -v playback,timestamp,extra it would be great
[04:26:12] elmojo: we use millisecond for timecodes throughout the code
[04:26:12] Beirdo: we'd want to go with integer I'm sure though (for computational speed, etc)
[04:26:16] Beirdo: perfect
[04:26:23] elmojo: yes... no floats
[04:26:46] Beirdo: floats are great if you NEED them, but we should rarely need them :)
[04:27:02] elmojo: but adding timecodes or timestamps would make the database 2x as large and it already takes an enormous amount of space for recordings
[04:27:10] Beirdo: agreed
[04:27:39] elmojo: I want to keep everything simple
[04:27:44] Beirdo: it would make seeking potentially a lot more accurate at times, and less calculations
[04:28:20] Beirdo: but for sure, storing the last frame number and the duration as a markup/seektable record wouldn't be that hard
[04:28:40] Beirdo: right now, we assume that the last mark is the last frame number
[04:28:50] elmojo: we use frames for many features
[04:29:01] Beirdo: which can be < 20 frames short at worst, AFAIK
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[04:29:16] Beirdo: that's what was used for the old duration
[04:29:19] elmojo: so switching to using timecodes would be a large effrot
[04:29:24] Beirdo: true
[04:29:47] Beirdo: but having the data there would certainly be a stepping point if we wanted to use the db space
[04:29:48] elmojo: total frames and duration I think is sufficient
[04:30:03] Beirdo: it should do, mostly :)
[04:30:11] Beirdo: and is a lot simpler
[04:30:27] elmojo: the code I've already committed at least makes the interface to the user accurate (outside of present bugs)
[04:30:31] Beirdo: if someone complains, it can always be rethought
[04:30:51] elmojo: they've lived with the current implementation since the start
[04:30:52] Beirdo: well, hitting down arrow goes forward based on time
[04:31:13] Beirdo: we should be reasonably close with avg framerate though
[04:32:02] castlec: hey guys. i'm going to start working on a plugin for pandora. i'm setting up my build machine right now. my systems are all running 0.23. will my plugins be source/binary compatible if i build them against 0.24?
[04:32:25] Beirdo: good stuff though, we should be well off once we override bogus values from ffmpeg :)
[04:43:53] Beirdo: castlec: source-compatible, perhaps... not likely binary. You really should develop from trunk or at least 0.24
[04:44:39] castlec: Beirdo, thanks. I agree with you. I was just thinking about making testing easy. I may just upgrade my systems
[04:47:07] Beirdo: no prob
[04:50:37] Gibby_2: Is there a signup for Trac? I see the login, but don't see a register anywhere
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[04:57:51] Beirdo: no there isn't
[04:59:15] Gibby_2: ok, any way to sign up for updates to certain tickets?
[04:59:49] Beirdo: yes. Add your email as a CC
[05:02:38] Gibby_2: Beirdo: It doesn't give me an option add as CC
[05:03:05] Beirdo: I guess you can't then
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[11:05:11] Beirdo: about 7 CDRs later, the mkisofs/cdrecord stuff in mythmusic is now working with the new myth_system, including updating the progress bar based on signals from the myth_system stuff when data has been read from stdout/stderr
[11:05:17] Beirdo: whew
[11:05:20] Beirdo: bed.
[11:10:36] stuartm: huh that's odd, CC is definitely one of the perms given to the anon group, wonder why it's not working ...
[11:11:55] Beirdo: it needs the liberal application of beer?
[11:20:59] stuartm: apparently it depends on TICKET_MODIFY, you can't use it on it's own :/
[11:21:14] stuartm: might just have to hack at that
[11:21:16] Beirdo: crazy
[11:26:30] Beirdo: ohhh, look, it's your code :)
[11:27:02] Beirdo: line 1945 of mythmainwindow.cpp
[11:27:40] Beirdo: the spew for Gestures.... I ran across that spewing once a second into my frontend logs while I was debugging today
[11:28:10] Beirdo: is that verbose still needed, or is it for some long-ago debugging, etc?
[11:28:18] Beirdo: dated 2009-08–30
[11:31:53] Beirdo: anywho. I should sleep. I'll catch up later
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[12:02:11] stuartm: terribly sorry about that old bean, I'll fix it asap
[12:14:20] coling: stuartm, missed your messages in #mandriva-cooker... got a bit of it in my proxy away message thing but what was the problem?
[12:15:23] coling: stuartm, oh I think it was just one question... FYI, yes, the "backports" media include mythtv-0.24, whereas the "updates" media contain just the latest fixes from 0.23.
[12:15:38] coling: I updated both recently.
[12:16:17] coling: (but then the whole point in backports is that it includes new versions of applications people want to use on older distros, so it makes sense to push mythtv there so the people can share the goodness!)
[12:17:20] stuartm: coling: actually the question was whether any code had been backported from trunk/0.24 to 0.23 – I doubt it, but I had to ask because we had a mandriva user who appeared to have a botched database, he had 0.24 schema in certain 0.23 tables so we wanted to eliminate the obvious before looking for non-existant bugs
[12:18:02] stuartm: I've no problem with 0.24 being pushed to the backports repo :)
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[12:19:20] coling: Yeah nothing on top of upstream with regards to db schema changes in 0.23 or 0.24... that would just lead to too much pain :D
[12:19:23] stuartm: he may have been using the PLF packages though, I don't know whether you're reponsible for those also? Or does MythTV even appear in the official repo anyway ...
[12:19:43] coling: Yeah the PLF packages are built from the same sources
[12:19:47] coling: So nothing in them either.
[12:19:55] stuartm: coling: cool, good to know, we've had some problems with that wrt to other distros :(
[12:20:17] coling: I suspect he maybe enabled backports media somehow and got a half upgrade to 0.24?
[12:20:28] coling: (not sure why it would only be a half upgrade tho'....)
[12:21:10] stuartm: we're not sure either, I suspect he either manually messed with his database or he killed mythtv during the schema update
[12:21:13] coling: The old libmythtv0.23.1 woudl remain installed after an upgrade as per the library policy but it wouldn't be used by any officially built mythtv package at that point.
[12:21:33] coling: (they would be using libmythtv0.24)
[12:22:03] stuartm: ok, ok explanation then is user error of some kind
[12:23:12] stuartm: coling: thank you for your time :)
[12:23:22] coling: Just for reference, the only patches I include on top are to disable lame support as we don't have that in official repositories (it's still enabled in PLF builds) and one that doesn't disable PA when using the alsa output when it's using the "default" alsa device (as default is normally pointing at PA when PA is running so disablling it makes no sense). Feel free to pull both upstream if you thing they are uncontroversia
[12:23:28] coling: l :)
[12:23:48] coling: stuartm, no problem :)
[12:24:08] coling: And an error between chair and keyboard seems most likely :D
[12:24:28] coling: (FWIW, I'm runnign the backported 0.24 on my 2010.1 system)
[12:24:42] stuartm: the lame patch would be interesting, I'm not sure why we still haven't switch to ogg as the default codec for analogue recording
[12:24:43] coling: Other than an OOM issue with the commercial flagger process it seems fine.
[12:25:37] coling: Lame patch is here: http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/pa . . . ent/SOURCES/
[12:25:59] coling: There is a similar patch for mythmusic too: http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/pa . . . ent/SOURCES/
[12:26:59] stuartm: I'll direct jya to the pulse patch, he might be interested
[12:30:31] coling: cool. It's fairly trivial and not super important in the overall scheme of things.
[12:31:15] jya: stuartm: where is there a pulse patch?
[12:32:20] stuartm: http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/pa . . . ;view=markup
[12:33:03] jya: why would you want to enable pulse for when using alsa:default ?
[12:33:13] stuartm: coling: ^^
[12:33:32] jya: that code there isn't complete
[12:33:54] jya: ah never mind... just remembered
[12:33:55] coling: jya, because 99% of systems running with PA turned on have the 'default' device redirected to the alsa-pulse plugin.
[12:34:08] jya: coling: not my experience at all.
[12:34:19] jya: if pulse is running you have an ALSA:pulse device
[12:34:21] jya: not ALSA:default
[12:34:23] coling: So if you don't do that then there is very little point in running PA.
[12:34:36] jya: at least not with ubuntu nor fedora
[12:34:46] coling: All the major distros Redhat, Ubuntu, Suse, etc. point alsa:default -> alsa:pulse.
[12:35:20] coling: Otherwise you just get into device hogging hell.
[12:35:24] jya: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/BgW9Fn4Y
[12:35:52] jya: here is the output of the default ALSA with a stock pulse compilation
[12:36:00] jya: so just like ubuntu or fedora
[12:36:02] coling: jya, that just proves there is no hint on the "default" definition.
[12:36:19] jya: default pulse ALSA compatibility layer is ALSA:pulse
[12:36:35] coling: jya, that's the sepcifically named version but like I say, default is also pointed there.
[12:36:54] coling: I'm 100% certain that this is the default setup in all those distros!
[12:37:29] jya: don't know where you get stats from... but I find it bizarre that of all the distros I'm running, that's not the case
[12:37:43] coling: I specifically put a hint on the override in mandriva to make it very clear to the user: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/HEgExstV
[12:38:34] coling: Honestly, ask rdeiter for fedora or sreeves for suse or theMuso, or dchen or ohsix for Ubuntu. I work with these guys all the time!
[12:39:14] jya: Just checked on two PCs here, both ubuntu (9.10 and 10.04) both have ALSA:pulse and no ALSA:default
[12:39:26] jya: if I kill the pulse server, then there's ALSA:default once again
[12:39:33] coling: The very first Ubuntu release that included pulse supidly did not redirect alsa:default to the PA plugin, but all since then have (when PA is used).
[12:39:49] coling: It's the primary way that backwards compatibility is achieved with alsa apps.
[12:40:39] coling: jya, So alsa:default shows up in aplay -L when you kill PA?
[12:40:46] jya: why would that be... if you have ALSA:pulse, and it's the default playback device, it doesn't matter what other alsa devices you have set up
[12:41:08] coling: What makes alsa:pulse "default" to any given random alsa client app?
[12:41:46] jya: on this machine, as soon as I kill pulse, it spawns again
[12:41:50] jya: like a virus that thing
[12:41:54] coling: Random alsa client app uses alsa:default (as is the recommendation). That's why on a PA setup, alsa:default is redirected to the alsa-pulse plugin.
[12:42:20] coling: jya, you need to disable autospawn: echo "autospawn=no" > ~/.pulse/client.conf
[12:43:05] coling: (something on your system is trying to use PA – likely gnome-volume-control, kmix or any app linked with libcanberra, hence when you kill it, it will be respawned by the app that needs it)
[12:43:32] jya: what you're asking me is to make a choice, on not suspending pulse if the user is using ALSA:default ; yet, if ALSA:default isn't an alias to the pulse device, then it will break using ALSA:default
[12:43:46] jya: that's a bad choice to make, and I can't make that one.
[12:43:58] coling: There is a chance that ubuntu is using an active thing to redirect alsa:default to PA when it's running and to dmix when it's not. Either way tho', the patch still makes sense :D
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[12:44:29] jya: yep, if I kill the pulse server, there's an ALSA:default
[12:44:40] coling: All I'm saying is that if a system is actively runnign the PA daemon, the only sensible and logical way to configure that kind of setup is to point alsa:default to the alsa pulse plugin.
[12:45:00] jya: it only makes sense for people using pulseaudio..
[12:45:05] coling: That's the recommendations we give to all distros and that's what they all do to achieve backwards compatibility with normal standard client apps.
[12:45:11] jya: if they want to use pulse, they use pulse
[12:45:12] coling: Yeah exactly, that's my whole point.
[12:45:20] jya: not ALSA:default
[12:45:49] coling: But if they choose to use ALSA:default and PA is running, then that's still a tacit acceptance that they want to use pulse as it is running and the default device.
[12:45:55] jya: ALSA:default isn't the default audio device in myth.
[12:46:10] jya: no, if they choose ALSA:default, then they will use ALSA, not pulse
[12:46:31] jya: I would have thought that having ALSA in the name was kind of a give away
[12:46:56] jya: if PA is installed , like many distros by default
[12:47:10] coling: No, not true. If they choose ALSA:default and they are NOT running PA, then yes, they are choosing ASLA, but if PA is running then, as I stated above, the only sensible audio configuration on such systems is if the "default" alsa device is pointed to PA.
[12:47:32] jya: and you want to use ALSA:default, pulse is suspended, and it uses ALSA natively.
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[12:48:04] coling: Well, all I'm saying that this setup will break audio for most people.
[12:48:08] jya: you're making an assumption that people will do what you do.. that's not my assumption for a start, nor what I'm seeing on my systsm
[12:48:19] jya: oh so?
[12:48:30] jya: previously, pulse was entirely suspended whenever myth was running
[12:48:40] jya: unless pulse was selected as the audio device
[12:48:47] coling: If Ubuntu do something clever and dynamically point default to PA or dmix depending on whether dmix is runign then fine, but certainly Fedora, Suse and Mandriva do not do that.
[12:48:50] jya: now pulse is suspended when the audio device is in use
[12:48:59] jya: I can't see how that would break existing system
[12:49:40] coling: because opening the default alsa device normally opens the PA plugin. If you suspend PA then it'll still be trying to use the alsa-pulse plugin (via "default") and not be able to output audio.
[12:49:49] jya: so if the user wants to use pulse, use ALSA:pulse (for using the ALSA compatibility later) or use Pulse:default
[12:50:14] jya: if you indicate ALSA:default, it's using ALSA. which is a very sensible choice IMHO.
[12:50:23] coling: I agree both those methods work. I'm just explaining that ALSA:default will also use *exactly* the same path as ALSA:pulse on most distros.
[12:50:33] jya: no, because if pulse is suspended, ALSA:default is ALSA:default
[12:51:00] jya: so what did you di with 0.22 and 0.23 ?
[12:51:03] coling: So when Myth sees ALSA:default it actually opens e.g. hw:0? not the "default" device as specified by ALSA?
[12:51:06] jya: when pulse completely suspended then?
[12:51:10] coling: jya, similar patch.
[12:51:31] jya: well, I guess you will continue similar patch then because it works for you...
[12:51:41] coling: (I reversed the logic of the EXPERIMENTALLY_ENABLE_PULSEAUDIO env var IIRC)
[12:51:56] jya: I don't believe that making a blanket statement on what ALSA:default points to is reasonable
[12:52:02] coling: Yeah, and sadly like I say ALSA:default will break on at least fedora and opensuse too.
[12:52:38] coling: Not sure about Ubuntu but I know the others statically point alsa:default -> pulse pcm plugin when the user picks a system configuration that uses pulse.
[12:55:43] coling: e.g. in Fedora here is the package that does that: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/rpminfo?rpmID=1766637
[12:56:25] coling: That's the alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package. It includes a file /etc/alsa/pulse-default.conf which set "pcm.!default { plugin pulse ; }"
[12:56:48] coling: When that package is installed (which it is by default) then alsa's "default" device is ALWAYS pulseaudio.
[12:56:59] jya: and if ALSA:default isn't pointing to pulse, it will now be broken... So want to use pulse, select pulse in the audio settings. want to use alsa: use alsa. i don't see what's so hard for a user to understand. Assuming that if a user select ALSA but really they mean pulse is not an assumption that I will make sorry...
[12:57:02] coling: We do something similar in Mandrvia (but in a more configurable way) and so does OpenSuse.
[12:57:27] jya: well, do like ubuntu then, if pulse is installed, configure a device ALSA:pulse
[12:57:31] coling: jya, but if you don't want to use pulse, then why is the PulseAudio daemon running in the first place?
[12:57:53] jya: because I don't modify the default idistribution installation
[12:57:58] coling: The whole logic is that if the PA daemon is running, then alsa:default almost certainlly will be pointed to the alsa pulse plugin.
[12:58:05] coling: No other system configuration makes any sense.
[12:58:11] jya: that was the principal driving force in suspending pulse only when needed
[12:58:39] coling: jya, the alsa:pulse option is installed on all distros just by convension, it's rarely if ever used directly.
[12:59:14] jya: that some distributions have decided to alias a common alsa device , it would be much better if they fixed that rather than having such dirty turn around
[12:59:22] coling: 99% of the time when PA is accessed via the alsa plugin it's via alsa:default.
[12:59:36] jya: i guess, the system could check if the device description contains pulse
[12:59:45] jya: and if that's the case not suspend pulse
[12:59:54] coling: Most distros don't both putting a hint on the default device.
[12:59:58] jya: this will work with your alias
[13:00:02] coling: It woudl yes.
[13:00:07] jya: well, that's there problem isn't it ?
[13:00:16] jya: their
[13:00:50] jya: anyhow, I have a bug to fix, and it's late...
[13:00:58] coling: But I still maintain that if PA is actually running then disabling it when opening alsa:default doesn't make sense and will likely lead to hung audio. If the user has configuired alsa:hw:0 or whatever then yes, suspending PA is a good idea.
[13:02:26] coling: Cool, no worries. Hopefully I've helped explain how PA is integrated and why this approach isn't as good as it could be. I maintain that my logic is still correct tho I will go and ask some Ubuntu'ites if their "default" definition is dynamic.
[13:03:40] jya: I will still argue that a much better solution (the best really) would be to do like what I'm seeing on my desktops ; or for the user to select the appropriate device in the configuration. And it's not like it's hard anymore, because if there's an audio device on the PC, it will show up in the list ; and this includes pulse
[13:04:39] jya: making ALSA:default point to ALSA:pulse is a dirty hack, and absolutely not required to have the default audio goes through pulse
[13:05:19] jya: I certainly hope this will lead to distribution adopting the right solution.. I'm glad I helped them in a tiny way doing so :P
[13:05:45] jya: so why is this ASF playing too fast?
[13:07:19] coling: jya, whether you think it's a dirty hack or not, that's been the recommendation we've been making for the past several years. – i.e. define pcm.!default { plugin pulse; }
[13:07:45] jya: coling: one thing to keep in mind, is whenever you change a default behaviour to please some, you get hundreds of angry people complaining that it broke
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[13:07:54] coling: pcm.pulse {} definition is just a method to test PA alsa plugin really. There is no practical reason for distros to even include that any more.
[13:08:27] coling: jya, yeah true, but I really think in this case, the only thing it'll do is fix problems for those with hung audio.
[13:08:43] jya: I see that when I changed a behaviour to please one person last month (something to do with passhtrhrough) it resulted of many people not getting any audio
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[13:08:57] coling: Yeah I noticed the fall out from that!
[13:09:08] coling: Whack-a-mole style :D
[13:09:46] jya: so these days, I'm extremely cautious about changing a behaviour, especially one I'm not experiencing myself.
[13:09:54] jya: maybe you should switch to ubuntu :)
[13:10:44] jya: I guess we could add a setting in the advance configuration, like do not suspend pulseaudio server
[13:10:53] jya: that's another alternative
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[13:12:25] coling: I'm asking the ubuntu guys but think they're asleep. I'm not sure I like any automated handling of the default device... it's not infalable... e.g. it has to connect to PA, work out of the device it would choose to route too is suspended due to user and then base it's decision where to point it based on the outcome of those tests... it's pretty nastly logic.
[13:13:36] jya: what I'm seeing here, is that if pulse is running you have the default "pulse" returned by aplay
[13:13:41] jya: if not you have default
[13:14:10] coling: And if one device in PA is suspended but another is not, what to do then? As the one that the app would route too may not be the same physical device as the what a pure alsa connection would consider default and that default device may actually be used by pulse and not suspended (and even actively in use). Lots of problems with the logic of a dyamic "default" definition.
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[13:14:23] jya: and final option, check the hint on the device, it if contains pulse, we do not suspend pulse
[13:14:43] jya: it's the PA server that is suspended
[13:14:53] jya: not a device as such
[13:15:15] coling: Well yeah that's what's generally done just now but nothng prevents doing it on a finer grained level.
[13:15:16] jya: so the minute you start myth, it gains exclusive access to the audio device
[13:16:15] jya: coling: in most cases (and it's the default). myth runs in full screen; I don't see having other applications continue having sound being a priority, and if the user want that, he can use the pulse device
[13:16:20] jya: Pulse:default that is
[13:16:43] coling: I agree, it's likely a rather edge case on most mythtv setups.
[13:17:06] coling: Although I do know people who run myth on different X screens.
[13:17:16] coling: And their normal stuff on another screen.
[13:17:30] coling: BVut they are very much in the minority
[13:18:14] coling: Anyway I'll discuss the dynamic default with the Ubuntu folks and see what their logic is.
[13:18:50] coling: Like I say, I don't really like that approach personally. Uses should either tick the big "Enable PA" or "Disable PA" button in their distro config tools.
[13:20:03] coling: And then apps should honour that IMO (which is where I disagree with the mythtv approach but not enough to really be bothered :D – I like how Skype do it for example – just show PA as an option and sod all the rest – the user has already made their choice and it's not the apps role to ignore that choice!)
[13:21:10] jya: Pulse is still far from the ideal choice with myth
[13:21:11] coling: But right now I say it's justified for apps that need to do e.g. passthrough. Until such times as that is supported natively which in a sensible way which is what git master is currently doing.
[13:21:21] jya: no passthrough, latency issues..
[13:21:56] jya: we have this bug that states to have whitenoise occuring with pulse from time to time.
[13:22:28] jya: yet, change the pulse sampling rate to 48kHz and that problem is gone
[13:22:29] coling: Latency issues are not real tho'. PA provides all the necessary feedback for dealing with latency. Much more so than other systems, it really is the apps that need to listen to that info and adapt accordingly. My bluetooth headphones will have different latency to the h/w card. It's just something that has to be dealt with, there is no escaping it.
[13:22:36] jya: I can't see how that could be related to mythtv
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[13:23:28] coling: Yeah that's likely an issue with the resampler used.
[13:23:51] coling: Anyway, /me has to go fix some trac plugin bugs.... with his very limited python skills :0
[13:24:32] jya: well, you can get my bug if you prefer
[13:25:03] jya: #9282
[13:25:04] coling: I think I'll pass :D
[13:31:04] stuartm: markk: I've just seen an indication that we're not clearing a vdpau hardware buffer on exit, now it may be a vdpau bug and not one of ours but I'll let you decide, basically what happened was that I exited the frontend and then ran mythavtest with an incorrect path, what was displayed on screen was the last frame of the video I had played in the frontend
[13:32:16] stuartm: and it's repeatable, each time I run mythavtest with that broken path so that it's unable to start playback I get that same frame shown for a couple of seconds
[13:37:59] jya: stuartm: I'm seeing the exact same thing right now
[13:38:18] jya: I only assumed it was an issue with the 260.x drivers
[13:38:22] jya: cause I never saw it before
[13:38:32] jya: what drivers are you running ?
[13:41:55] stuartm: 256.44
[13:42:14] jya: ah ok... I thought it was something that got introduced in 260
[13:42:35] jya: I have plenty of weird artefacts since I upgraded to 260
[13:42:59] jya: forst that greyscale background with the last frame that got played
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[14:26:58] markk: stuartm: more than likely a recent driver issue. I'd be amazed if we are leaking anything as large as an entire video frame – a lot of gpus would be running out of memory in short order and there would be a slew of bug reports.
[14:50:24] jya: markk: I can take a picture if that help, it's kind of greyscale here, and isn't full resolution
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[14:59:51] stuartm: here it's a perfect full res frame
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[15:03:27] stuartm: but most likely a driver/x bug
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[15:23:50] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: sadly I'm going nowhere fast with this dvd stuff, the continuing problem is that no matter how I access the iso, whether it's via libdvdcss directly or through libdvdread they both require the 'decrypt' flag to read() when reading vobs but not when reading ifos, it's just not clever enough to handle that internally
[15:25:50] stuartm: I figure it might be possible to allow for this without extending the protocol if the backend looks at the dvd filesystem and maintains a list of which files are at which block range, so that when the frontend requests a seek/read from block 31343 it knows that it's looking at an IFO or VOB and can apply the right flag
[15:27:18] stuartm: I might give that a try, but not today
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[17:23:39] sphery: stuartm: Could it just be memory that's released, but not zeroed? Even in Xv, I've been getting "ghost" frames or images for years, and I just assumed it was because there was no reason to explicitly zero the memory on shutdown, so on startup (especially if drawing of the new data didn't start immediately), you'd see whatever garbage was left in that memory. Then again, I don't know anything about the video stuff--including ...
[17:23:45] sphery: ... VDPAU--so that may not make any sense.
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[18:18:23] Delian: hi all
[18:19:12] Delian: tmdb.py script is supposed to return localizated metadata?
[18:19:49] iamlindoro: wrong channel, see topic
[18:20:19] Delian: oh.. sorry
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[20:31:15] Captain_Murdoch: testing
[20:31:30] Captain_Murdoch: ok, /me wonders who banned him and his 2nd alias Captain_Murdoch2 in #mythtv-theming.
[20:37:22] Gibby_2: Captain_Murdoch: I have had the same issue, seems like an issue with the channel settings
[20:37:26] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: no-one, it's a freenode bug, for some reason you need to be registered and logged in to change nicknames in that channel, it can appear to be a ban but it's not
[20:37:49] stuartm: and there are no unusual flags in use on that channel, at least not that I can see
[20:42:57] elmojo: iamlindoro: did you get my messages last night about the 28hr duration?
[20:43:38] iamlindoro: elmojo, I saw them way after the fact, GF had deleted the recording but I have seen it several times in the past 4–5 days, so I'll let you know as soon as I have another
[20:44:48] iamlindoro: In fact, I just found another, here's a 24 hour recording of "The good guys"  ;)
[20:45:25] iamlindoro: But this one behaves differently... what should be 00:00:00 is 22:57:48 (ie, an hour or so before the end of the 24 hours)
[20:45:40] iamlindoro: so the start is 22:57:48 of 23:59:59
[20:46:44] elmojo: iamlindoro: it looks like we are going to have to generate duration ourselves if we are going to get this to work right
[20:46:56] elmojo: what source is the recording from?
[20:47:03] iamlindoro: QAM, from Fox
[20:47:19] elmojo: they must be screwing the timestamps up
[20:47:48] elmojo: I'd still like a log with -v playback,timestamp,extra for the entire playback when your system gets time to do so
[20:48:02] elmojo: I'm not seeing this problem on any of my QAM channels
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[20:49:08] elmojo: I'd like to add an equivalent of 'ffmpeg -i' in the playback log for help in debugging this kind of stuff
[20:49:20] iamlindoro: I'll start that playback now, I'm headed off to the grocery store-- it's going to be a biiiiig log at that verbosity
[20:50:18] elmojo: should be smaller than the video itself :)
[20:51:47] elmojo: iamlindoro: and one other request... could you play that recording back with xbmc and see if it suffers the same issue
[20:52:09] iamlindoro: I don't have XBMC installed, but if you think it will help I'll install it
[20:52:39] elmojo: it would be nice to know... but if it's too much trouble then don't worry about it
[20:53:01] elmojo: I'm just curious if they found a solution to it without using a position map
[20:53:24] elmojo: my gut says they have the same issue
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[21:48:18] iamlindoro: elmojo, http://www.fecitfacta.com/elmojo.log  — XBMC gives the same broken timestamp as current trunk on this recording (when it doesn't crash the first two times just trying to play it)
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[22:14:27] stuartm (stuartm!~gbee@cpc2-derb9-0-0-cust833.8-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #mythtv
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[22:56:36] _Techie_: is there currently a win32 frontend?
[23:09:37] ** Beirdo points at the topic **
[23:09:52] Beirdo: and yes
[23:17:04] _Techie_: sorry Beirdo, didnt expect the #mythtv chan to be a dev chan, i expected something like #mythtv-dev to be
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[23:20:41] stuartm_ is now known as stuartm
[23:27:55] iamlindoro: elmojo, Seeking/chapter jump in Blu-ray seems also to be broken
[23:28:20] iamlindoro: OSD behaves as though it is jumping, but does nothing, with a:
[23:28:28] iamlindoro: 2010-11–27 15:26:31.825 Dec: DoFastForward(): desiredFrame(1996) > last_frame(0)
[23:28:28] iamlindoro: 2010-11–27 15:26:31.825 Dec: DoFastForward(): Desired frame is way past the end of the keyframe map!
[23:28:33] gbutters (gbutters!~Gary@ip68-11-58-116.no.no.cox.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:30:01] iamlindoro: hmm, let me double check that it isn't my own fault
[23:31:43] iamlindoro: elmojo, sorry, false alarm
[23:31:46] iamlindoro: my own fault
[23:43:17] Kunalagon1 (Kunalagon1!~Kunalagon@212.200.240.54) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)

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