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Wednesday, November 24th, 2010, 00:02 UTC
[00:02:39] Gibby_away is now known as Gibby
[00:06:55] elmojo: markk, Beirdo: the recording for #9109 didn't have a framerate change at all – it had a ton of repeated frames
[00:07:13] Beirdo: oh?
[00:07:30] elmojo: Beirdo: I believe you mistakenly looked at the video out stats which shows the "average" fps
[00:07:54] Beirdo: I guess they stuffed enough repeat frames to make it 23.976
[00:08:06] Beirdo: video output stats from what?
[00:08:09] elmojo: yes, exactly... it's basically telecined
[00:08:27] elmojo: the log file
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[00:08:45] Beirdo: mplayer definitely says it detected a frame rate change
[00:09:17] elmojo: I'll have to try that out
[00:09:18] Beirdo: and the number of frames in the file corresponds to a frame rate change
[00:09:47] elmojo: number of frames doesn't not equate to frame rate
[00:09:50] Beirdo: i.e. total frames / total time shows an average framerate of well below 29.97fps
[00:09:56] elmojo: you have to take into account repeated frames
[00:10:10] elmojo: again... this is repeated frames
[00:10:50] Beirdo: well, when decoded, ffmpeg gives x frames, which corresponds to a lower total frame rate than 29.97fps
[00:10:59] Beirdo: how it gets there, I dunno
[00:11:13] elmojo: because the repeated frames aren't counted
[00:11:30] Beirdo: K.
[00:11:36] elmojo: they are just displayed for additional time... it affects the frame duration
[00:11:59] markk: demux_mpg: 24000/1001fps progressive NTSC content detected, switching framerate.
[00:12:12] markk: demux_mpg: 30000/1001fps NTSC content detected, switching framerate.
[00:12:20] Beirdo: yup
[00:12:36] markk: that may just be telecine detection though?
[00:13:04] elmojo: dunno, I wonder if there are flags that we need to look at
[00:13:16] Beirdo: decoded frame count corresponds to a detected frame rate, but I'm sure it will be figured out :)
[00:14:37] elmojo: it should be easy enough to search the mplayer source and see where that's coming from
[00:15:58] elmojo: in addition.... mplayer by default uses it's own mpeg demuxer and it might handle telecine/repeated frames differently than ffmpeg
[00:16:35] elmojo: you can override and force it to use libav demuxer and see if it detects frame rate changes or not
[00:17:47] Beirdo: yeah, I'll try that in a bit
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[00:34:50] elmojo: Beirdo: running with mplayer -demuxer lavf doesn't show any frame rate changes and worse it selects the rate as 59.94
[00:35:19] Beirdo: yeah, ffmpeg sees the file frame rate as 59.94
[00:35:20] elmojo: I believe that ffmpeg just uses repeat_pict to handle the frame rate change
[00:35:37] Beirdo: I recall that in the output of ffmpeg -i
[00:36:03] Beirdo: K. Well, since we essentially use ffmpeg...
[00:37:05] elmojo: it's 2 ticks per frame though... mplayer isn't accounting for that
[00:37:27] elmojo: so that makes it 29.97 fps when playing under MythTV
[00:37:48] elmojo: basically mplayer is designed to use lavf demuxing for MPEG-TS files
[00:38:18] elmojo: err, isn't
[00:38:36] Beirdo: yeah, sounds that way
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[00:56:51] elmojo: Beirdo: the sample plays perfectly here.... did you see any playback issues on your system?
[01:04:35] Beirdo: nope, just the time issue
[01:04:48] elmojo: awesome, thanks
[01:04:57] Beirdo: there may have been a few bad frames, but nothing significant
[01:05:30] Beirdo: it happens at times :)
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[03:13:52] sphery: OK, so another thread about captions being broken boiled down to a user who was using libmpeg2 ( ) just days after a ticket about playback breakage due to libmpeg2 ( ). Since we can't remove libmpeg2 because of the lossless transcoder's reliance on it, how about we at least remove it as an option from playback profiles ...
[03:13:59] sphery: ... (and reset profiles users have already created to substitute ffmpeg/standard for it)?
[03:14:45] iamlindoro: +1
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[03:18:22] xris: sphery: no argument from me
[03:18:44] ** xris can't imagine how he left half a glass of tasty sour beer sitting around on the counter for several hours **
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[03:23:31] markk: sphery: well – not entirely confirmed that libmpeg2 is the cause in that case – but I was going to suggest the same thing anyway:)
[03:24:46] sphery: Well, I'm convinced that's the cause. Since it won't require actually modifying playback code, I'll throw together a patch to make the changes and see what people think.
[03:25:41] sphery: at least I'm convinced enough that's the cause that I'm willing to point it out to support my own cause :)
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[03:39:01] xris: hmm, zero-byte recordings are still blocking re-record. thought we fixed that.
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[04:03:39] Beirdo: elmojo: any idea how we might be able to do framenumber->time offset->framenumber now relatively accurately?
[04:05:03] elmojo: no
[04:05:13] Beirdo: heh. OK
[04:05:23] Beirdo: that's always fun, I guess
[04:05:27] elmojo: you can use avg_frame_rate if it's available
[04:05:39] elmojo: but it's hit or miss
[04:06:05] Beirdo: yeah, that's unfortunate with our seeking being essentially time-based
[04:06:07] elmojo: for recorded material we could generate an accurate avg_frame_rate when creating the position map
[04:06:12] Beirdo: but understood :)
[04:10:43] Beirdo: you had some tool that summarized the number of repeat frames, etc?
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[04:28:18] elmojo: markk: would you recommend any certain deinterlacer for OpenGL for use on a laptop with discrete Nvidia graphics?
[04:29:08] elmojo: I've tried a variety but can't seem to find one that works well enough
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[04:56:30] markk: elmojo: the only one that I would call good quality is OpenGL yadif – but that needs a fairly fast gpu. kernel is OK but often has artefacts
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[05:21:49] elmojo: markk: k, if I have the CPU is a non-HW deinterlacer the way to go?
[05:23:23] ** xris wonders if/when handbrake's decomb will make it into lffmpeg **
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[07:00:58] markk: elmojo: vdpau is the way to go:) if you have the CPU, yadif is undoubtedly the best software based solution. kernel is a good alternative and is multi-threaded. otherwise opengl kernel gives a useful balance between CPU and GPU
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[07:16:52] histo: I'm confused. I'm trying to share music along with videos. Videos are working right now to my frontends. But how do I add music?
[07:17:01] wagnerrp: please see the topic
[07:17:09] histo: sry
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[09:48:14] ** stuarta lobs a holy hand grenade at jya **
[09:56:26] stuartm: I don't believe it's true that we've never allow API version changes in a release, it's nowhere near as problematic as protocol changes since the likelihood of a user doing a partial update of packages on a single machine is small whereas the running mixed versions on multiple machines is high
[09:57:43] stuartm: I believe the concerns about packages is unwarranted and therefore so is the 'need' to create a 0-24–1 branch
[10:03:52] stuartm: the 0.23 binary version was changed 3 times, 0.22 once, 0.21 once
[10:04:20] stuartm: i.e. we've done it in the last 3 releases without incident
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[10:21:51] jya: Any particular reason to continue supporting libmpeg2 ?
[10:21:58] jya: what's the advantage over ffmpeg ?
[10:32:33] rooaus: jya: It is used for lossless transcoding
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[10:39:27] jya: but in the playback profile
[10:57:59] rooaus: oh, no reason, I think that is why sphery was proposing to remove the playback option and do the db update. Leave it for lossless transcoding though.
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[14:10:40] stuartm: I personally think we should drop libmpeg2 playback support, it's proved to be buggy and it's harder to ensure stability with so many possible combinations of decoders/encodings, the fewer methods we support the easier it becomes to guarantee a bug free, stable frontend
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[14:11:52] stuarta: what does it provide to lossless transcode that we can't get from ffmpeg?
[14:13:57] stuartm: iamlindoro might know, I don't, I've never looked at the lossless transcoder code
[14:14:11] stuarta: i tried and my brain hurt
[14:14:35] stuartm: it's hard to imagine that it offers something that ffmpeg doesn't
[14:15:12] stuarta: i'd love to finally fix the ticket regarding the deadlocking "one buffer full, one buffer empty" in the LL transcoder
[14:15:22] stuarta: nfi how tho
[14:17:46] stuartm: I'd love to see that bug fixed, and it's not that I don't think I could do it given the time to learn how it all works but simply that it doesn't interest me enough to try
[14:19:00] stuartm: the end result is desirable, the work involved is not
[14:22:20] stuarta: it's an exercise in learning or futility depending on your point of view
[14:23:07] stuarta: although someone like taylor who appears to be able to fix those obscure mpeg issues would probably knock it over in 5 mins
[14:23:58] stuartm: yeah, some people seem to have a natural affinity or curiosity about these things which I'm very grateful for
[14:24:45] stuarta: me and mythui wouldn't get on, where as for you it's easy
[14:25:04] stuarta: on the other hand, i'm happy with obscure details of EIT data
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[18:14:41] dw805: good morning. Has anyone tried debugging mythfrontend qt libraries using gdb on win32? I attach to the process, and can see the standard windows dlls as loaded, but the qt libraries aren't listed, nor can I set breakpoints on qt functions...
[18:17:25] dw805: I am trying to get a stack backtrace for the "can't unlock unlocked lock" bug on win32 mythfrontend, btw.
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[18:30:34] danielk22: dw805: I haven't debugged on win32 in over a decade, but it sounds like you need to load symbols for the Qt libraries. Are there perhaps two sets of Qt dll's? one with debugging symbols and one without?
[18:31:42] stuarta: oh and when you find out can you let the rest of us know?
[18:31:57] ** stuarta has never coded let alone debugged on windows **
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[18:35:32] mrand: dw805: hopefully placing whatever you learn on the mythtv wiki :-)
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[18:59:02] dw805: I'm trying an end-run around for now. I modified the qt_assert_x function to force a segfault, then rebuilt QT libraries. mythfrontend is rebuilding now. when it is ready, I'll run it, get to the failure point, attach gdb, then make it crash. gdb should intercept the seg fault and I'll get my back trace :)
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[19:16:38] dw805: so much for the shortcut. back to looking at qt compilation and how to get symbols loaded. I'll keep track of what I do and try to document it if I succeed....
[19:21:35] clever_: danielk22: qt does provide 2 libs for each file when debuging is enaabled, libQtCore.a libQtCored.a
[19:22:08] clever_: the normal is 4mb, while the debug is 100mb
[19:29:29] mrand: dw805: ^
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[19:30:52] clever_: in my case, i compiled with defaults on, it tried to make a BLOODY 1gig debug file for webkit
[19:34:42] stuartm: heh, that's a little larger than the equivalent symbol files for linux
[19:35:07] clever_: it was a static version of wekbit, complete with every single line of source code
[19:35:36] clever_: way more then just symbols
[19:36:44] stuartm: fwiw I'm not really sure debugging QT is really worthwhile, if it's crashing _in_ qt then it's a QT bug that we can't really do anything about, but it's more likely crashing in myth code on the usage of a QT class in which case the backtrace probably provides enough information to narrow down the issue
[19:37:31] clever_: it could also be improper use of qt api, QString *foo=null; foo->c_str()
[19:46:15] stuartm: yep the point is that 9 times out of ten, the causes of a segfault are evident earlier in a trace when appears to end in QT code, in the event of the null pointer example you don't need the QT symbols to identify the problem
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[21:07:02] ** iamlindoro fires repeatedly into [mythtv] BrowserBased setup **
[21:07:10] iamlindoro: die!
[21:07:44] iamlindoro: They aren't even waiting for us to offend them with our decisions any more, they're coming pre-offended ;)
[21:08:04] stuartm: I stuck that thread on ignore
[21:08:21] stuartm: it's my fault for responding, and continuing to respond in the first place
[21:08:52] sphery: at least they finally moved it to -users list
[21:08:53] stuartm: but really, how I resist the Silverlight provocation
[21:09:15] stuartm: wow, typo'd that one
[21:09:19] laga: i was on the train for five hours today and that thread was one of the things that kept my spirits high
[21:09:49] stuartm: s/how I resist/how could I resist/ s/\n/?\n/
[21:10:46] stuartm: I look forward to the time I get to spend on trains, it's not often that I get to read a book without distractions
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[21:25:03] danielk22: stuartm: you've volunteered to PM the settings stuff?
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[21:26:15] iamlindoro: other stuart
[21:26:17] stuartm: stuarta
[21:27:09] stuartm: if the experience doesn't kill him them maybe I'll stick my neck out for future projects ;)
[21:27:57] danielk22: hehe
[21:28:36] stuartm: s/them/then/
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[23:48:59] stuartm: jannau: the -final tags were deliberately omitted from git?
[23:49:51] stuartm: I guess if you've got the branches then they are just duplicates ...
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