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Monday, November 22nd, 2010, 00:04 UTC
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[00:27:36] Beirdo: markk: #9271 could likely use a *wee* bit more of a description, no? :)
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[02:54:29] elmojo: Berido: any chance I could get that variable frame-rate video?
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[02:54:45] elmojo: I assume it's quite large
[02:58:47] Beirdo: it's about 1.6G
[02:59:12] Beirdo: I could mail you the DVD-R he sent it here on
[02:59:48] Beirdo: meanwhile, I could carve some off the front that shows the frame rate changing
[03:03:10] Beirdo: uploading the first 100MB, which has at least one frame rate change a few seconds in
[03:03:36] Beirdo: if it doesn't give ya what you need, I'd be happy to send the disc on
[03:11:22] elmojo: Beirdo: 100MB clip would be fine
[03:11:49] Beirdo: K, it should be done uploading in 15min or so
[03:24:34] Beirdo: OK.
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[04:29:43] elmojo: Beirdo: got it.. thanks!
[04:36:30] Beirdo: no prob :)
[04:39:11] Beirdo: I wish you luck with it.
[04:40:49] elmojo: Beirdo: I don't see us detecting a stream change from 29.97 to 23.976 fps
[04:41:07] elmojo: so I'm back to my original thought that we don't play this back properly either
[04:41:52] Beirdo: hmm, OK. My reference point is mplayer's handling of it, and it does seem to have a transition early on
[04:42:20] Beirdo: but I guess it's possible we play it time accelerated :)
[04:42:26] elmojo: I think the video does do this... I just don't think that Myth detects it
[04:42:48] Beirdo: gotcha
[04:43:30] elmojo: we can easily monitor frame duration using the video timecodes and see if they match a known frame rate like 23.976, 24, 25, 29.97, etc
[04:43:50] elmojo: if we see it match a known frame rate we can update the frame interval
[04:44:04] elmojo: I bet that's how mplayer does it
[04:44:23] Beirdo: wouldn't surprise me
[04:48:16] elmojo: markk: if you have a chance and interest I'd be interested in your opinion on the clip Beirdo uploaded above – I don't see MythTV detect a stream changes and it uses a frame interval based on 29.97 fps for the entire video even though the average frame rate is a little more than 24
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[07:50:44] markk: elmojo: appears to play at 23.98 here. perhaps we just need to add a little debug output for the fps change
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[09:50:57] markk: elmojo: actually, it seems to detect it as 29.97 fps at the start and then plays it at 23.98 – but there's no obvious point at which it changes the fps
[09:51:08] markk: repeat flags?
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[10:54:29] elmojo: markk: I'll have to add more debug but I believe the av-sync code allows it to play at 23.98 fps
[10:55:40] elmojo: it's probably play a few few frames at 29.97 fps and then video gets ahead of the audio enough that the av-sync adds delay to the frame duration until it's back in sync.... rinse and repeat
[10:58:57] stuarta: i can see how that would get messy quickly
[11:06:00] markk: elmojo: and presumably it never gets far enough out of sync that it actually reports it – and hence the big std dev I see on playback
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[12:28:37] kenni: stuartm: does an mostly up-to-date maintainers list exist? I know about the one on the Trac wiki, and I know there were a few on the other wiki, but right now I'm only able to find one, which you deleted a month ago.
[12:30:12] stuartm: The one in trac can probably be considered the authoritative version, but I wouldn't say it was up to date
[12:30:55] kenni: stuartm: perhaps
[12:31:44] stuartm: that was created more recently, but it's incomplete
[12:33:23] stuartm: fwiw, simply selecting the appropriate component will generally mean that it's assigned to the correct person
[12:34:24] stuartm: if you're sweating over the ticket I just re-assigned to sphery then don't, I only reassigned it because I'm too much of a coward to tell the guy that I'm not interested in his patch ;)
[12:38:27] kenni: stuartm: Heh, well, not sweating, just wondering :) I would be happy to triage more tickets, but it would really help to have a more up to date list of maintainers of the various subparts of MythTV. When the ticket is a patch, then it's quite easy to look at the code + SVN history to figure out who deserves to get the ticket, but it's not always obvious when dealing with regular bug tickets
[12:42:30] elmojo: markk: exactly... the small corrections occur when it's only 1.5 frame intervals out-of-sync
[12:58:27] stuarta: kenni: it's normally sufficient to set the appropriate component tag. ie if you set if to EIT the ticket gets reassigned to me
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[13:03:26] kenni: stuarta: yep, but for example MythTV – General doesn't have any owners.
[13:04:46] stuarta: nope, and it's the default state which tickets get dropped in. At this point they need triaging
[13:05:15] kenni: stuarta: exactly :)
[13:05:18] stuarta: it might make more sense to have the default state as "NeedsTriage"
[13:27:02] stuartm: I'll add a triage status to the workflow
[13:28:16] stuartm: although it's not that clear cut :/
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[16:16:19] SerpentX: hi
[16:16:42] ** stuarta speculatively points at the topic **
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[21:49:31] cdev: Looking for input (http server changes)... How limiting would it be to have all data read from all connections by a single thread? The actual processing of the request would be farmed out to a thread pool.
[21:50:02] cdev: Trying to use only Qt network classes which means slots execute on the thread that created the object.
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[22:05:02] stuartm: danielk22: have you got the new settings class figured out yet? I want to get on with the xmltv api config stuff but it depends on being able to build up the settings objects (labels/checkboxes/combo boxes etc) from the xmltv output so maybe it's too early for that?
[22:12:06] danielk22: stuartm: Hmm, let me look at what I have. I have been fixing merge conflicts and the like in the settings code when I sync my trees but I haven't actually run the code in quite some time.
[22:12:56] stuartm: Beirdo: still infoneeded?
[22:20:49] Beirdo: yeah, I haven't heard crap
[22:21:04] Beirdo: I guess he kinda answered
[22:21:22] Beirdo: but since upnp is SOAP, not REST, I'm not sure we care too much
[22:21:59] danielk22: stuartm: It looks like everything will get an HTML settings widget, but in most cases this is a text entry rather than a proper input constrained widget.
[22:22:00] Beirdo: I'll look at it again this week, and either close it or do something with it :)
[22:23:28] danielk22: mythsettings.cpp MythSetting::ToHTML() is where the magic happens. It's should be pretty simple to extend it and fairly obvious what needs implementing.
[22:23:47] stuartm: ok, thanks
[22:24:48] danielk22: Note: Presentation is not handled at all currently. The plan was for that to be handled by CSS+ECMAscript w/HTML, and well handled by some external program if we write a ToXML() as well.
[22:25:14] Beirdo: cdev: that sounds resonable to me. Parsing incoming data to the point of determining that we need a thread to handle the request should be pretty fast, no?
[22:25:25] stuartm: input constraint shouldn't be a problem for the xmltv stuff, where it needs constraining it generally calls for a combobox (selectbox) or checkbox so it's not really possible for the user to screw it up too badly
[22:25:34] Beirdo: unless we allow POST of a large amount of data, that may be the only real exception
[22:26:13] Beirdo: but even then, we should be able to read the POST quickly and hand it off to whatever's going to handle the data itself in another thread
[22:27:10] danielk22: stuartm: heh, checkbox is implemented. combobox is still a text entry... but if you need me to write the case kComboBox: implementation I can whip something up.
[22:27:12] stuartm: danielk22: don't need the presentation side yet, so no hurry
[22:27:50] danielk22: There is a kSelect.. which may be all you need...
[22:29:40] stuartm: kSelect will probably do fine, it calls for a 'select one' widget and a 'select multi' widget, those could be implemented with a drop-down or radio buttons but that's really more of a presentation consideration
[22:30:37] danielk22: stuartm: I've posted an updated patch to 8262... It's only updated for merge conflicts.
[22:33:43] stuartm: danielk22: thanks
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[22:47:55] stuartm: danielk22: thoughts on adding a 'password' setting type?
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[22:50:19] danielk22: stuartm: kPassword, sure I just hadn't thought of it. HTML has a built in widget for that IIRC.
[22:50:54] stuartm: it does
[22:53:02] stuartm: ok, I'll create a branch with the patch and add it plus anything else that's notably missing
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[23:07:35] cdev: Beirdo: that's what I was thinking also... just wanted to see if anyone could think of a good reason against doing it that way.
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[23:13:57] jya: Apple TV software got updated to 4.2. You can now stream audio and video from any devices supporting airplay (itunes, ipad, ipod, iphone)...
[23:14:20] jya: this is a pretty sweet solution.. a tiny adapter allowing you to wirelessly link to your TV..
[23:14:49] jya: so... when are we going to support airplay with mythtv ? :)
[23:15:39] Beirdo: I sense a volunteer
[23:16:22] jya: indeed :P
[23:17:01] jya: would need an option to have real-time transcoding ... so you stream h264 (or even other codec) from the backend
[23:18:11] jya: question is where the layer to convert video would be best fitted?
[23:19:04] Beirdo: good luck with transcoding H264 HD content to anything on the fly
[23:19:59] jya: the AirVideo java server works brilliantly on my 2.6GHz C2D backend..
[23:20:15] jya: can watch all videos on my ipad with airvideo pretty much instantly
[23:20:30] jya: airvideo server start a ffmpeg process and stream from that
[23:22:19] jya: you could think of an app for android/iphone, looks like a remote control, and the backend stream to an appletv
[23:27:18] stuartm: jya: full HD H.264?
[23:27:41] jya: well, I encode in 1024x768, the size of the iPad screen
[23:28:05] jya: probably will change to 1280x720 for the appletv
[23:28:08] stuartm: yeah, but decoding the original file to re-encode it
[23:28:20] jya: oh, that's what it does
[23:28:37] jya: those conversion settings are done in real-time
[23:29:12] jya: there's about a 2–3s wait before the video start playing.. but otherwise, it encodes to h264 while decoding the original video
[23:29:13] stuartm: since decoding 1080i/p H.264 requires pretty much all the resources of a 2.6Ghz X2, encoding at the same time would seem to be a stretch
[23:29:34] jya: I haven't tried full HD videos
[23:30:05] jya: most of my content is SD, for HD stuff I watch it on the TV directly
[23:30:24] jya: it's more like my regular 1 hour before bed time. Take the ipad and watch a TV series
[23:30:36] stuartm: about 50% of my recordings are HD atm
[23:32:07] jya: oh well, I'll get an i7 or something then :)
[23:33:27] jya: in any case, being able to stream from the backend, with the backend controlling it is very cool.. would allow for very cheap frontend
[23:34:55] jya: question from an architectural point of view would be where to do the conversion, integrate it right through say avfd , or have a separate process/thread
[23:36:06] markk: I'm pretty confident that if someone doesn't implement live transcoding/streaming for handheld/low powered devices soon, then we can expect to see users disappearing in droves. too many easy alternatives out there now.
[23:36:12] jya: could think of having the virtual storage actually making everything appear as h264 videos or others
[23:36:31] jya: markk: totally agree with you there
[23:36:42] stuartm: my point is only that as more and more content is broadcast in HD and as people switch over to bluray any realtime transcoding feature is going to be impossible with existing hardware, unless we see hardware re-encoding solutions in the very near future, just as we have PureVideo/CrystalHD now
[23:37:38] stuartm: most existing streaming products are hardware based
[23:38:01] jya: a 6core i7 is getting quite cheap these days... I think it's obvious we have to stop thinking about implementing new features with regards to existing hardware, but instead of focusing on the feture itself, and let people pick a hardware that suit
[23:38:06] jya: rather than the other way round
[23:38:13] jya: otherwise we'll never move forward
[23:38:36] markk: hardware accelerated decoding will be 'available' soon enough – and that will scale for you as well. 'only' then need to reencode.
[23:39:51] jya: markk: is realtime re-encoding something you are going to take out of your magic hat with a "tada! I've already done it" , or you haven't looked into it yet?
[23:40:43] markk: I've not looked at the reencoding – only the accelerated decoding for commflagging/transcode etc
[23:41:53] markk: but if you've got a stream of say 320x240 yuv frames, plugging those into ffmpeg shouldn't be too hard. but no doubt will spend 3 months agreeing how the protocol should work etc
[23:42:27] jya: :)
[23:44:28] jya: Probably the easiest for the client perspective, would be that most stay the same now, but the backend fake that all content is of a certain type and resolution (like h264, 320x480)
[23:44:54] stuartm: markk: only if you ask how it should work, I find work gets done much faster and is better received if you go ahead and write it
[23:45:08] markk: yes :)
[23:45:28] stuartm: asking for input is the quickest way to kill an idea dead ;)
[23:46:07] elmojo: Beirdo: could you get me a larger sample that actually has a bigger duration delta between FFmpeg and our player?
[23:46:11] danielk22: Beirdo: Have you been using 6330? It looks like it's pretty much a reimplementation of the TFW... but I'm not convinced that it's fixing anything that's a real problem (lock contention in TFW?)
[23:49:30] danielk22: markk: Encoding 320x240 to 640x480 or there abouts is easy with h.264 simple profile or WebM as the target. It's decoding 1080i h.264 which is problematic without HW acceleration.
[23:50:31] stuartm: danielk22: that's a pretty old ticket, at the time the submitter started work on a lockless TFW there were issues that were suspected to be caused by lock contention, however I've not heard anything about those bugs in a very long time
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