MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

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abqjp, alan`, aloril, Anduin, anykey_, asphere, beata_, Beirdo, bestis, brfransen, caelor, Captain_Murdoch, cattelan, cdev, Chutt, clever, coling, Computer_Czar, Cougar, dagar, dashcloud, Dave123, Dave123-road, davide, dekarl, discernica, dlblog, dserban, eharris_, elmojo, elvum, foobum, foxbuntu, ghoti, Gibby, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, grokky_, hads, iamlindoro, ikonia, inordkuo, J-e-f-f-A, j-rod|afk, jams, jannau, jarle, JEDIDIAH__, joe___, jpabq, jpabq-, jpharvey, jstenback, justinh, justpaul, jwhite, jya, kc, kenni, Kevin`, kha, kirdneh, knightr, kormoc, kurre, laga_, len, leprechau, lofidellity, Logicwrath, mag0o, markk, mrand, MythLogBot, nutron, ozatomic, paul-h, PointyPumper, poptix, Prost, purserj, RDV_Linux, reynaldo, rmkl, rooaus, skd5aner, sphery, Splat1, stuarta, stuartm, superm1, sutula, tgm4883, ThisNewGuy1, tomimo, tris, Varro, wagnerrp, XChatMav, xris, yang, ybot, _charly_
Tuesday, November 16th, 2010, 00:11 UTC
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[00:30:10] iamlindoro: markk, Following your OpenGL improvements in the past few days. Neat! Do I understand correctly that your aim is to improve more than just the video output (ie, ui candy?)
[00:39:53] markk: iamlindoro: when available – everything (UI + video) will use advanced features, otherwise it will drop down to the current feature set (or more accurately, the feature set in 0.24). so in a few days or so, it should be simple enough to just slot in a blur shader – then just need the theming changes to somehow enable it
[00:40:15] iamlindoro: Very, very cool
[00:40:25] iamlindoro: Shoot. Now I have to start thinking about theming again :)
[00:41:06] iamlindoro: Umm, feel free to close the Effects struct ticket I opened if this makes it irrelevant, or use it if it helps
[00:41:33] iamlindoro: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8975
[00:43:16] markk: I need to spend some time getting my theming thoughts down on paper and run it past everyone (esp stuartm)
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[01:10:30] iamlindoro: markk, Heh, so I just compiled with the new GL code... and found that my video playback in inverted, haha
[01:10:36] iamlindoro: ie, upside-down
[01:11:10] iamlindoro: (with the GL renderer, that is)
[01:11:29] iamlindoro: I can definitely just use VDPAU, but if there's anything I can get you, let me know
[01:13:55] markk: hrm – just spotted that. only happens under certain circumstances. just stand on your head:)
[01:14:24] iamlindoro: heh
[01:19:56] iamlindoro: I'm sure we can spin this as a feature somehow
[01:20:11] iamlindoro: "Handstand pushup mode" for the fitness junkie in your life
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[01:51:31] iamlindoro: Slick, patches on ffmpeg-devel to add E-AC3/TrueHD/DTS-HD passthrough
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[03:12:42] xris: Captain_Murdoch: ping
[03:49:28] jya: iamlindoro: cool... do they get around working on specific hardware?
[03:49:52] jya: jya: or will that work with any audio cards?
[03:49:54] iamlindoro: jya, I am not sure, I didn't delve very far and it definitely comes with a healthy list of caveats
[03:50:21] jya: reading ffmpeg-devel now..
[03:50:41] iamlindoro: It *seems* like it's card agnostic, but you know those bits better than I do, you would be able to say whether it's something we could easily use
[03:50:53] iamlindoro: Hope so, though, might finally upgrade the receiver
[03:52:45] jya: they do talk about non-HBR requiring stream
[03:52:52] jya: for work on like 9400M
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[07:58:58] Beirdo: anyone have any idea if "MythTerminal" is still being used, and what it is?
[08:01:14] Beirdo: looks lke it's used by TerminalWizard
[08:01:32] Beirdo: which in turn is used by XMLTV_generic_config
[08:02:00] Beirdo: I think I'll leave that steaming pile for the moment
[08:02:34] Beirdo: it's... super-complex, but it's likely to disappear with the advent of new setup
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[08:20:44] dekarl: Beirdo: does that mean setup is going to prefer apiconfig when configuring the xmltv grabber? Might be an incentive to spend some time on that part of the grabbers.
[08:23:20] Beirdo: I don't know in detail the plans on how setup will be rehauled.
[08:23:27] Beirdo: overhauled.
[08:24:42] dekarl: ok, I just saw the xmltv reference and tought you might know details
[08:25:10] Beirdo: nah. I'm going through the code and redoing all child process stuff
[08:25:42] Beirdo: w
[08:25:46] dekarl: i see
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[09:00:33] stuarta: xris: ping
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[09:24:45] jya: while we are talking about dropping some old features...
[09:24:56] jya: what about dropping OSS3 ?
[09:26:01] jya: instead making the minimum OSS3. Looking at this ticket http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7517, it has some nice enumeration feature. We could provide auto-detection for volume control
[09:27:03] stuarta: what is the minimum in the current distros?
[09:27:37] stuarta: what i'm trying to say is, if what you want to move to is available in all the main distros then theoretically there shouldn't be an issue
[09:27:51] jya: OSS3 is in all linux kernel
[09:27:53] jya: oss4 isn't
[09:28:11] stuarta: external kernel module?
[09:28:15] stuarta: or userspace?
[09:28:34] jya: the OSS code in the kernel is quite old due to some disagreement since the OSS project became a commercial venture
[09:28:59] stuarta: i'd put an email out to the developer list to solicit opinion
[09:29:54] jannau: I don't think it makes sense to support oss4, so if you want to drop oss3, drop oss entirely
[09:30:06] jya: OSS4 ships with other system, like BSD
[09:30:43] jya: dropping OSS means that you would have no audio output for BSD system
[09:30:53] jya: so don't really want to drop OSS
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[10:25:05] ** stuarta upgrades production machines to 0.24-fixes **
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[11:18:00] jannau: j-rod|afk: do you know off hand when staging driver and the driver in the crystalhd repo were in sync last? A couple of good cleanups are missing in the crystalhd repo
[11:26:07] stuartm: sphery: fyi I'm going to start porting the schema wizard to mythui
[11:28:32] stuartm: Beirdo, dekarl: we will be using APIConfig (although the specs/behaviour documentation remains incomplete), so MythTerminal etc will definately not survive the setup re-write
[11:28:49] Beirdo: stuartm: so glad to hear that
[11:28:55] stuartm: and I dare say that we will _only_ support apiconfig
[11:30:10] stuartm: I'd have written apiconfig support years ago but I gave up trying to get answers to certain basic questions, I can't even remember what those questions were ...
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[11:32:43] Beirdo: O....M...G....
[11:33:07] Beirdo: you know, if you are trying to use a new thread, it actually helps to START the bloody thing
[11:33:24] Beirdo: hehe
[11:33:55] Beirdo: I have plenty of debugging to do tomorrow, but at least I have a chance to get it working now :)
[11:34:03] Beirdo: no wonder I had empty inputs.
[11:34:17] Beirdo: the thread that fills the buffer wasn't running
[11:38:07] stuartm: agh, seems I did get a reply of sorts from Mattias – http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php? . . . =xmltv-devel
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[11:39:03] stuartm: my first question is less relevant now that we're not implementing the UI within the constraints of a fixed screen, but the changes/additions I proposed are still very relevant
[11:40:14] stuartm: time to brush up on my perl I guess
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[13:08:02] stuartm: iamlindoro: "BDRingBuffer.cpp:29: warning: unused variable 'rlep'"
[13:08:50] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: themechooser.cpp:91: warning: no previous declaration for 'bool sortThemeNames(const QFileInfo&, const QFileInfo&)'
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[13:48:20] iamlindoro: stuartm, That warning is fine
[13:48:27] iamlindoro: just ignore it for now, please
[13:49:48] iamlindoro: If it's that critically important that trunk have no compile warnings it can be commented out, but it's part of the in-progress menu code
[13:53:43] ** stuarta can't remember no compile warnings ever being important, merely "nice to have" **
[13:56:37] stuartm: they are always worth investigating because they frequently turn out to be bugs
[13:57:12] iamlindoro: I can completely appreciate the desire not to have them, and would normally fix it right away-- I guess I could comment it out in trunk since the code isn't even reached for the average user yet (you have to specifically enable HDMV navigation mode in trunk)
[13:57:46] iamlindoro: But as long as it doesn't bother anyone too much, I'll leave it for now since I have been checking in new hunks of the BD menu code every few days
[13:58:05] iamlindoro: That particular unused variable is the actual raw blu-ray overlay image
[14:11:37] kirdneh: Hi
[14:11:49] kirdneh: Is anyone working on mythtranscode recently
[14:12:11] kirdneh: I'm asking about "loosless" HD cutting
[14:12:34] kirdneh: I need it – and if nobody is doing it as well – I would start on my own
[14:12:54] kirdneh: As far as I would have something successful :) I would come back.
[14:13:40] kirdneh: But I thought I should ask before I doing it -while somebody else is doing it as well ...
[14:17:02] stuartm: no-one is working on lossless H.264 cutting
[14:20:15] stuarta: feel free
[14:20:40] kirdneh: ok, then I will play a bit around with it
[14:21:13] kirdneh: I guess if I have (partial) success on it, I should post it on the mailing list ...
[14:22:46] kirdneh: And – btw :) – Thanks for all your efforts on mythtv – I'm using it now for a couple of years and I'm very happy with it.
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[14:50:31] Captain_Murdoch: stuartm, 'static' added and committed.
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[15:18:30] ** stuarta dum de dums **
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[15:54:41] stuartm: sphery: are you working on the schemawizard at all? I'm want to start porting it to mythui
[15:56:15] iamlindoro: stuartm: Re: deprecated/non-MythUI stuff, I am hoping to find the time over the holidays to do a fair bit of work on MythGame, more or less a rewrite to make it behave equivalent to MythVideo. You are welcome to port any of the non-MythUI stuff there, but if it saves you time, know that I'll be redoing all of that bit
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[16:21:50] jannau: j-rod: ping
[16:23:39] j-rod: jannau: pong
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[16:24:53] ** jannau sighs at broadcom's code **
[16:26:47] jannau: you should have stopped merging broadcom contributions to the crystalhd repo after the driver was in staging
[16:28:00] j-rod: yeah, pushing everything along upstream probably would have been ideal
[16:28:06] jannau: or faster syncing changes from staging to the crystalhd repo
[16:28:12] j-rod: and/or that
[16:28:31] j-rod: more or less, I simply ran out of time to work on it
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[16:29:53] jannau: I started merging patches from crystalhd to the staging driver but I doubt that will succeed
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[16:30:47] jannau: was probably a stupid idea to try it in that direction since the crystalhd repo has more and more invasive changes
[16:31:05] j-rod: broadcom has dropped a few non-small patchbombs too
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[16:32:37] jannau: do you have a script to trim the register def files? 70015 support adds again 100k lines register defines
[16:33:06] j-rod: iirc, I did it more or less by hand the first time around
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[16:49:08] stuartm: iamlindoro: I have a couple of untested patches for mythgame to remove the old dialogs, I really need someone who uses mythgame to test them
[16:50:37] iamlindoro: stuartm: well, fell free to do anything you like to it. I was hoping to move much of what is not MythUI directly into the plugin UI (ie scanning, etc)
[16:52:45] stuartm: well one of them replaces the two popup menu dialogs, I start on the progress dialogs but those are on the back burner since they are more complicated because they require the addition of threads
[16:53:22] iamlindoro: I did a huge ton of work on MythGame sometime in the .24 cycle that I accidentally ran svn revert on :(
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[16:53:31] iamlindoro: and just have never scraped together the motivation to go back and redo it
[16:54:01] iamlindoro: But I had it running like MNV/MythVideo/etc. with three views, had most of the DB code pulled out of the UI code. It was far from done and far from perfect, but it was a step
[16:56:27] iamlindoro: I'm sure when I do I'll be treated to threads about how the myth devs have somehow further ruined usability by imposing change on the poor, oppressed people ;)
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[17:07:56] Chutt: iamlindoro, a unified ui is more usable than one that's different everywhere
[17:07:58] Chutt: so
[17:08:01] Chutt: let em bitch :p
[17:08:28] iamlindoro: heh
[17:08:32] iamlindoro: I agree :)
[17:08:45] iamlindoro: I'm sure they'll live, or revert to .21, or something ;)
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[17:12:43] stuartm: markk: on the topic of a unified UI, I'd like to harmonise the wording/grouping of the OSD menu with that in the watch recordings screen, there's some overlap
[17:15:35] stuartm: paul-h: realistically, can we expect mythmusic to be ported for 0.25? I'm considering moving the old UI stuff out of libmyth if we can't eliminate it entirely, that should make it clearer which code is for the axe and what remains in libmyth to be moved to libmythbase
[17:25:08] stuartm: btw, I've just renamed the ticket types on trac to give a clearer indication of what each means, if there are any suggested improvements or additional types please let me know
[17:25:50] stuartm: defect == Bug, patch == Bug fix patch, enhancement == Feature patch, task == Developer task
[17:27:41] stuartm: keep in mind that the wording was chosen with ordinary users in mind, hence substituting 'defect' for 'bug'
[17:28:12] iamlindoro: Outside of "Bug Fix Patch" sounding a little awkward, I think they're good improvements
[17:28:42] iamlindoro: Maybe "Patch Submission – Bug Fix" and "Patch Submission – New Feature" or something?
[17:28:50] stuartm: iamlindoro: yeah it does sound awkward, I was aware of that
[17:29:17] iamlindoro: Anyway, even with no further changes I still think those are improvements
[17:30:40] jams: awkward, but i think it's good as some may not get that Bug fix means they should supply a patch
[17:30:55] stuartm: keeping them short, Patch – Bug Fix etc
[17:33:39] stuartm: 'submission' does emphasise that the submitter should be supplying that patch, but I think that's already implied
[17:35:44] stuartm: the solution to the 3/4 digit problem is obvious, if there are 4 digit numbers in the database we wait for 4 digits to be entered, if 3 then we only wait for 3 etc
[17:35:53] iamlindoro: Agree
[17:36:15] iamlindoro: My only reason for wading is was to emphasize that we should not add an option for that kind of thing
[17:36:54] stuartm: I wonder whether lateral thinking is something that doesn't come naturally to some
[17:42:01] iamlindoro: Heh, a guy on the contractors google group wants someone to program a commercial inserter
[17:42:19] iamlindoro: (ie, the classic "Take this content and replace the ads with MY ads" crazy)
[17:42:47] iamlindoro: Oh, and track usage while you're at it.
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[18:03:54] iamlindoro: Beirdo: continuing on, I don't think that it's acceptable to rip out all QProcess use in MythTV in favor of myth_system which has been broken countless times in the past few months. I also don't think it's acceptable to break Windows and/or OS X, and not even to test such core changes against it because of a personal belief that those platforms are second class citizens
[18:04:37] iamlindoro: Expecially since the primary reason QProcess is *good* is because it is cross platform
[18:04:38] Beirdo: myth_system is more stable now than it ever has been
[18:04:51] Beirdo: and QProcess is known to be buggy
[18:05:00] iamlindoro: myth_system has been broken with a few dozen tickets in the past two months alone
[18:05:11] iamlindoro: And QProcess has one bug that I am aware of that people complain about
[18:05:20] iamlindoro: which has only ever struck in relation to the mediamonitor
[18:05:32] Beirdo: it was even MORE broken before I changed it, and nobody knew what the problem was
[18:06:00] iamlindoro: Anyway, I am just stating that for the record, I am tremendously uncomfortable with the invasive nature of the changes without them working on all our supported platforms, and especially uncomfortable with any changes made to the metadata classes
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[18:06:23] Beirdo: what we already have is a more stable platform, and the decision was made by several of us months back to eradicate all of the other forking mechanisms to get ONE that works properly
[18:06:30] Beirdo: and that is not QProcess
[18:06:31] iamlindoro: I'm not asking that you not make your changes, merely that they be tested to work on all known platforms before being committed, and that I be allowed to make those changes to code I maintain
[18:06:42] Beirdo: we will be putting in Windows support
[18:06:49] iamlindoro: That decision was not made with any sort of vote or consultation on -developers
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[18:07:29] iamlindoro: Beirdo: I was not allowed to commit Blu-ray support until I had verified that it worked on all supported platforms, nor was I allowed to resync libdvdnav until those conditions were met. Your changes are more invasive and more potentially problematic, it's not unfair to ask that you do the same
[18:07:34] Beirdo: we can send you the patches for whatever files you are concerned about.
[18:07:59] Beirdo: and you can test them to your heart's content
[18:08:07] iamlindoro: Anything MythVideo, anything MythNetVision, anything MythGame, and anything metadata* in libs
[18:08:19] iamlindoro: Please allow *me* to make those changes and do not include them in any massive commit
[18:08:56] Beirdo: they are already changed, if when you get the patches, you don't like how, tweak.
[18:09:00] iamlindoro: Also, I reiterate that I am not comfortable with *any* of the changes going in unless they work on all supported platforms. It's not as though I'm asking the moon, just that you take a tiny bit of time to test them on all our supported OSes
[18:09:12] iamlindoro: Beirdo: Again, please do not commit those changes to my code
[18:09:14] wagnerrp: i dont believe any changes were made directly to any of those plugins
[18:09:18] Beirdo: I'm not about to rip out work that's already done
[18:09:33] wagnerrp: only the shared metadata libraries
[18:09:36] Beirdo: I think there were some minor ones if that
[18:09:48] iamlindoro: Beirdo: Sorry you feel that way. As I said in -users I will revert any changes to code I maintain, particularly the metadata code, if the testing methodology is not acceptable to me
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[18:10:28] iamlindoro: I will happily test and apply the changes to my code, but I will not accept working code being changed into who-knows-and-we'll-get-to-Windows eventually code
[18:11:04] xris: iamlindoro: breaking things in order to move forward is an acceptable development strategy
[18:11:17] iamlindoro: xris: Not to me. I will revert.
[18:11:19] xris: or even potentially breaking things
[18:11:34] xris: then branch your code
[18:11:38] iamlindoro: If I maintain it, it's reasonable to insist that I approve changes to it.
[18:12:00] iamlindoro: If I am not permitted even that level of control over my code, then there's no point being here or being a maintainer of anything
[18:12:09] iamlindoro: Try me. Commit it.
[18:12:10] xris: that's true. so why start out antagonizing the guys who have done a ton of necessary cleanup work rather than just asking to take a look at it and approve things?
[18:12:38] iamlindoro: xris: All I am *asking* is that it not be committed until *I* am ready to approve it. It does not harm them in the least to break it out into manageable chunks.
[18:12:54] iamlindoro: It should not all be committed in one giant go anyway, it *should* be done in pieces
[18:13:10] xris: you're one guy working on a project with 20–30 other active people. you can't expect progress to be held up just by yourself.
[18:13:15] xris: it *has* been done in pieces.
[18:13:19] iamlindoro: And all I ask is that pieces to code I maintain be left out until I have had an opportunity to test them to my level of satisfaction
[18:13:24] xris: you've known about this work for WEEKS.. so why complain about it now?
[18:13:34] Beirdo: http://www.beirdo.ca/git/mythtv/log/?h=mythsystem-rewrite
[18:13:44] Beirdo: see how many commits on that branch?
[18:13:44] iamlindoro: The last time I queried about it, metadata classes were being left alone
[18:14:17] iamlindoro: Beirdo: It would not harm you in the least to leave out the metadata classes. It wouldn't even inconvenience you more than a minute or two
[18:14:50] iamlindoro: Feel free to commit all you like. I only ask that the metadata classes be left alone, and that it be tested on windows and OS X
[18:14:53] iamlindoro: I am not asking the world.
[18:15:10] Beirdo: if it needed changing, the change is already on that branch. We will let you test them all you want before merging
[18:15:12] iamlindoro: Send me the patches for those classes and I will test them and commit them.
[18:15:56] xris: why not just check out the branch so you get the whole thing?
[18:16:22] ** xris goes to get coffee so he can be more awake. **
[18:16:22] iamlindoro: I am happy to test the changes when next I have time. I am attempting not to hold you up. If you are willing to wait on my schedule to permit testing, that's fine with me.
[18:16:33] Beirdo: and if there are changes needed, you can have them in the branch as well.
[18:16:45] skd5aner: why don;t you just branch?
[18:16:45] iamlindoro: If you would prefer to press forward, all that I ask is that you leave out those elements that I maintain until that type of window opens up.
[18:16:47] Beirdo: well, we still do need to add Windows support
[18:16:48] skd5aner: oh, already recommended :)
[18:17:03] Beirdo: that was a known entity anyways
[18:17:21] iamlindoro: Further, I am saying that since other disruptive changes in the past have been contingent on testing on all supported platforms, that that same precondition apply here.
[18:17:48] Beirdo: OSX should work with very minimal if any changes, as this has been done with POSIX system calls with an eye to portability
[18:17:48] iamlindoro: I realize you are barrelling ahead and that you perceive this as an impediment, but I'm really not asking that much.
[18:18:00] iamlindoro: Beirdo: Awesome. Then the testing ought to be easy.
[18:18:16] Beirdo: it should be, yes
[18:18:24] iamlindoro: Sweet. So that shouldn't slow you down much then.
[18:18:45] Beirdo: Windows... will slow us down for testing... because Windows is slow
[18:18:46] wagnerrp: need to get someone who runs OSX to test them out
[18:18:57] Beirdo: i.e. compiling it will take half a day
[18:19:12] iamlindoro: Good thing we're still 6–8 months from the release :)
[18:19:22] Beirdo: correct
[18:19:46] Beirdo: but not 6–8 months from this being merged. more like a month, hopefully
[18:20:04] Beirdo: this is not a merge at the last second kind of thing
[18:20:27] iamlindoro: That's fine with me. All I want is for the merge to be after all supported platforms are tested to work.
[18:21:17] Beirdo: well, be aware... about half the stuff wasn't supported under Windows before
[18:21:23] iamlindoro: and for myself to give approval to any changes to code I maintain, whether that be on your schedule (ie, you merge and let me test and commit the changes to metadata classes after the fact) or mine (ie, you wait until I have some time to switch and test.
[18:22:07] iamlindoro: I'll settle for "still compiles and basically functions" on Windows and OS X for an initial merge
[18:22:30] xris: "still"? it actually compiles/runs now?
[18:22:37] iamlindoro: I'm not bothered about minor brokenness, I am somewhat anxious about making promises that Windows will be sorted out "by the release"
[18:22:42] iamlindoro: xris: Compiles and runs fine
[18:22:48] iamlindoro: on both
[18:22:52] iamlindoro: both .24 and trunk
[18:23:06] Beirdo: this isn't going on 0.24-fixes
[18:23:12] Beirdo: not a chance of that
[18:23:18] ** iamlindoro helpfully points xris at the long string of commits pertaining to windows in the past few months **
[18:23:24] iamlindoro: That's fine
[18:23:35] xris: I think the 0.24 was in answer to my question
[18:23:45] iamlindoro: right
[18:24:38] wagnerrp: xris: it mostly works under windows, but there are large chunks that dont
[18:24:46] wagnerrp: primarily stuff used in the backend
[18:24:56] xris: gotcha
[18:24:58] iamlindoro: The backend stuff is mostly sorted out now, actually
[18:25:03] Beirdo: and actually, after this rewrite, more of it is likely to work
[18:25:08] xris: wagnerrp: have you tested your new stuff in windows?
[18:25:18] wagnerrp: for instance, all of the channel change stuff calls functions that are #ifdef'd out
[18:25:35] wagnerrp: xris: no, there is currently no windows support at all
[18:25:37] Beirdo: xris: not yet, still need to add that chunk in
[18:25:53] wagnerrp: only the standard POSIX calls
[18:25:54] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: At last check, the HDHR could be made to work on Windows.
[18:26:22] xris: I think iamlindoro has a point, then.. if this commit would definitely break Windows and you guys don't have a plan to get it fixed quickly thereafter, stuff should be held off.
[18:26:24] xris: or worked around
[18:26:28] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: theoretically IPTV could too, though we currently don't build the libmythlivemedia lib on windows and nobody has ever bothered to sort that out
[18:26:28] Beirdo: like it or not, we have to start somewherer, and that is Linux-land
[18:26:44] xris: then again, have we *ever* made promises about working in windows?
[18:26:48] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: ah, this is just the external channel changer stuff
[18:26:56] Beirdo: we do have a plan (at least I do) to make sure that Windows is supported
[18:27:14] wagnerrp: the external channel changers rely on myth_system functionality that does not exist in the windows builds
[18:27:24] Beirdo: as much as we supported it before
[18:27:42] iamlindoro: Beirdo: I honestly *do* believe you do, I'm just asking that it predate the merge-- otherwise I get to twiddle away waiting for it to happen when that time was going to be spent working on BDA support
[18:27:58] Beirdo: fair enough
[18:28:05] iamlindoro: Thus my nervousness about "it'll work by the release," since that doesn't leave me any time to get BDA done
[18:28:12] Beirdo: how so?
[18:28:30] Beirdo: it's like anything else. we make no promises that trunk isn't broken
[18:28:32] iamlindoro: How do you propose I work on recorder code in trunk if trunk doesn't work in Windows?
[18:28:33] Beirdo: until release
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[18:28:46] Beirdo: it's a *development* branch
[18:28:47] iamlindoro: It works now, I can work on BDA code now.
[18:28:51] Beirdo: yes
[18:28:56] iamlindoro: If you break support for windows, my work stops.
[18:28:56] Beirdo: and we don't want to break it
[18:29:06] Chutt: it's traditionally been a development branch that we don't knowingly break.
[18:29:17] Beirdo: exactly
[18:29:34] Chutt: so, don't commit stuff that you know is going to break windows
[18:29:39] xris: yeah. breakout outright for Windows is one thing.. I thought this was a "maybe it will break" thing
[18:29:48] Beirdo: but that doesn't mean that it won't break. If you want a stable platform for your work, branch from something you know works.
[18:30:09] Beirdo: before this is ready to merge it will be "works as best we can tell"
[18:30:12] Chutt: people touching low level internals have to be more rigorous about breakages
[18:30:24] Beirdo: but there may still be some funky issues.
[18:30:43] xris: right.
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[18:30:51] xris: just saying, due dilligence is good.
[18:30:55] Beirdo: for sure
[18:30:57] wagnerrp: MSDN lists '_execv' as an available function to use in windows, but is that actually available or something MSVC translates internally to a CreateProcessA?
[18:31:22] xris: iamlindoro: if your stuff depends on fully-working stuff but doesn't conflict, it might be good idea to branch it.
[18:31:29] iamlindoro: Funky issues I can live with
[18:31:40] iamlindoro: I trust beirdo to be conscientious about fixing issues that arise
[18:31:52] Beirdo: wagnerrp: we have example code from before the changes, we can reuse
[18:31:54] xris: and that assumes that Beirdo and wagnerrp do some due dilligence on the windows side of things before merging
[18:31:55] iamlindoro: outright breakage of an entire platform makes me nervous, though :)
[18:32:04] Beirdo: understandable
[18:32:18] Beirdo: well, on the branch, it's broken for Windows for now
[18:32:30] wagnerrp: Beirdo: yes, the old code Windows is complete independent from the POSIX code
[18:32:38] Beirdo: heck, it's likely partially broken for Linux in places. A lot of testing to go
[18:32:44] xris: so you guys should probably at least get some basic functionality/compiling in the branch
[18:32:52] wagnerrp: and uses CreateProcessA for the forking
[18:33:00] Beirdo: wagnerrp: yeah, it would be an alternative ::Fork() method, I think
[18:33:07] xris: wagnerrp: what about just overriding the call in windows?
[18:33:17] iamlindoro: For what it's worth, I do think the project is a nice demonstration of git branching ;)
[18:33:20] xris: to make it work like before under windows
[18:33:27] wagnerrp: but if execv is available directly, it would mean a lot less code in there than needs to be reworked
[18:33:28] Beirdo: iamlindoro: yup ;)
[18:33:31] xris: iamlindoro: yeah. if only we could get a clean git import....
[18:34:10] Beirdo: once we have a clean import, I intend to rebase this branch onto the import. Some minor repository surgery :)
[18:34:16] wagnerrp: xris: if windows will support the POSIX calls and data structures, it would be a lot easier to manage than writing a Windows-native version
[18:34:25] Beirdo: wagnerrp: so true
[18:34:41] xris: can't argue there.
[18:34:51] wagnerrp: thats why im asking if it will actually support execv as documented in MSDN, or if that is just something special that the MSVC compiler offers
[18:35:34] Beirdo: Now, I know I minorly borked mythweather last night. :) It was a huge user of QProcess, and I had it mostly chased down...
[18:35:49] Beirdo: and finally figured out that our IO threads weren't started. hehe
[18:35:54] stuartm: it's pretty simple really, if a feature is going to cause breakage or has a high chance of doing so, then it should be in a branch, not the other way around – there have been rare times in the past when it's been accepted that the complexity of changes and likely collisions mean that isn't possible, but generally speaking nothing should knowingly break trunk
[18:36:08] Beirdo: agreed
[18:36:37] Beirdo: and that would include the setup rewrite. Merged back at opportune times when it won't hose trunk/master
[18:36:41] iamlindoro: And thus we reach our usual level of violent agreement ;)
[18:38:05] Beirdo: heh
[18:38:08] stuartm: the setup rewrite is likely to be developed in parallel with exiting code and not immediately replace it, as such it shouldn't really affect the stability of trunk too much
[18:38:14] Beirdo: I need more coffee
[18:40:25] xris: yeah. and small accidental/incidental breakage isn't the same as "we know this will bork windows compiles"
[18:41:17] Beirdo: yup
[18:41:32] iamlindoro: I am sure we will work through all the issues as they arise-- I'm just hoping that general work can continue on all platforms without too much disruption
[18:44:47] iamlindoro: Heck, if we can even talk through the changes made to myth_system that permit what the metadata classes need (namely, the ability to select only stdout/stderr and treat them differently, and read the selected result into a QByteArray), and can get some assurance that metadata grabs on both individual items and mass grabs of large libraries (hundreds+) have been thoroughly tested, that would go a long way towards increasing my comfort level ab
[18:44:47] iamlindoro: that stuff
[18:45:06] Beirdo: we have precisely that support :)
[18:45:23] Beirdo: wagnerrp went through a lot of pain to get us there :)
[18:45:25] iamlindoro: Including setting the output stream?
[18:45:49] Beirdo: we read the entire stdout or stderr into buffers
[18:46:02] Beirdo: or both (separate buffers)
[18:46:10] iamlindoro: Has there been testing against individual items and large libraries?
[18:46:28] iamlindoro: (ie, I am curious to know what happens when you really torture it)
[18:46:30] Beirdo: the changes to the metadatadownloader are tiny
[18:46:39] Beirdo: we will be :)
[18:46:51] iamlindoro: tiny like an iceberg (ie, it's the under the surface stuff that worries me, not line count)
[18:47:24] Beirdo: heck, my first IO candidate was datadirect
[18:47:29] iamlindoro: I trust that the changes to the code itself are trivial/a few lines, it's what's going on under the surface that gives me pause
[18:47:44] iamlindoro: anyway, just wanted to raise those concerns
[18:48:04] iamlindoro: All of the above said, and all disagreement aside, I do trust in your effort to fix issues that come up
[18:48:22] Beirdo: in the end, I changed that to tell wget to write to disk (since we cache anyways), but it turns out the issues I had was due to fat-fingering a buffer size
[18:48:40] Beirdo: it SHOULD be able to transfer about 3MB/s read
[18:48:46] iamlindoro: I don't want you to feel like I'm just trying to slow you down, just want to see the ability to work on platforms continue relatively unimpeded, and know that my "pet" code (metadata stuff particularly is code that I've put lots of love into) will go on trucking
[18:48:53] Beirdo: and about half of that on write to stdin on a child
[18:49:08] Beirdo: it will keep on trucking :)
[18:49:09] stuartm: having the buildbot stuff up and running with a windows platform would help, it's clear that even some developers aren't aware of the current status of our non-linux support
[18:49:24] wagnerrp: the transfer speed is just because of a sleep in the IO handler
[18:49:30] Beirdo: yes, agreed, stuartm
[18:49:32] wagnerrp: i need be, that can trivially be increased
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[18:50:50] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: we also duplicate the signal handling for the netvision stuff
[18:51:08] iamlindoro: slick
[18:51:10] wagnerrp: and those get fired off by a separate thread to ensure they dont block anything important
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[19:08:37] dekarl: stuartm: ok, so I can invest some time into apiconfig on the xmltv side without fearing it be forlorn hope. Oh and re your first question. I'd say 0 questions per stage is possible, too. (nothing to configure, skip to choosing channels. But I need to verify that)
[19:10:24] stuartm: dekarl: any chance you'd be interested in making the proposed changes? I really do see those as pre-requisites for MythTV support
[19:11:13] stuartm: I can and will do it if no-one else is interested
[19:13:18] dekarl: I can take a look at it during december. (aka after the upcoming release and once i'm not buried in day-job stuff) Nick seems to be looking into lineups (in the mapping dvb triples to channels sense) lately so the q1 release might have some nice additions
[19:16:05] iamlindoro: stuartm: Looking at your proposed patch for MythGame. Out of curiosity, is the preferred method of handling dialog completion events to use the string, the number, or "whatever?" We do both, as well as singals/slots all over Myth and it would be nice if I could try to follow whatever the preferred method is
[19:17:06] dekarl: If seen how MCE accepts mapping of DVB/ATSC/CNI -> channel for automatic mapping of recorder channels to guide channels. I want that, too :)
[19:17:36] stuartm: signal/slot is least preferred, but otherwise there's no preference, it depends on the circumstances
[19:18:34] stuartm: the perception seems to be that events are safer, whether that's true or not we prefer the event driven method
[19:20:11] iamlindoro: stuartm: Cool, thanks, will try to follow that model from now on then
[19:22:16] stuartm: I guess number is preferable to string since the string will likely be translated, but even number assumes the list order will be static to an extent, so it's really a judgement call
[19:22:54] iamlindoro: Yeah, intuitively string seems easier to me since adding an option is more trivial without renumbering
[19:22:57] stuartm: numerical comparisons/switch is going to be more efficient than string comparisons, especially where translations are involved
[19:23:21] iamlindoro: Ah, yeah
[19:24:09] stuartm: and non-static strings can complicate it, but as I say, it's just a matter of picking the best solution for the given situation
[19:57:43] Beirdo: OK, mythweather now successfully using myth_system support instead of QProcess
[19:58:23] Beirdo: the main problem: I did QByteArray m_buffer... overriding the scope of a class member, so my data disappeared on me
[19:58:32] Beirdo: that's what I get for coding at 2am
[20:00:20] Beirdo: and as long as I have the pics in the right place, I can test the dcraw extension to mythgallery too
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[20:00:42] Beirdo: after a nap or something, this headache just won't go away
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[20:05:44] stuartm: well the checkheaders project has made some progress, but it's still difficult to use and produces too many false positives :(
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[20:22:55] paul-h: stuartm: I've just started to work on the port again after a much longer break from it than I anticipated so I would think so, but I did think it would be ready for 0.24 so no promises
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[21:29:43] ** stuarta still can't get the windows port to build **
[21:30:21] stuarta: not to mention my mac is still bust
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[23:10:30] stuartm: "Upcoming Recordings scrolls messily" is more a statement of opinion than a bug ... ;)
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[23:16:56] stuartm: iamlindoro: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1993923 – cut and paste job, completely untested, but should allow buttontrees to contain mapped text and images (statetypes to come)
[23:20:31] jya: in order to simplify things... why can't me make the database only accessed via the backend ? this probably has been discussed before. just a thought
[23:20:46] stuartm: jya: that's been on the cards for years
[23:21:05] stuartm: been discussed to death
[23:21:12] jya: yeah, I'm always up to date :)
[23:21:49] jya: so the conclusion to this is ?
[23:22:08] stuartm: we'll make the database embedded and require all access to go through the backend, it just requires someone to actually do the work, which is not insignificant
[23:22:34] stuartm: embedded mysql
[23:22:44] jya: ok
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