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alan`, aloril, Anduin, anykey_, asphere, beata_, bedlore, Beirdo, bestis, brfransen, btwe_afk, Captain_Murdoch, cattelan, cdev, Chutt, clever, coling, Cougar, dagar, dashcloud, Dave123-road, davide, dekarl, DJDan, dlblog, duerF, eharris_, elmojo, elvum, foobum, foxbuntu, ghoti, Gibby_away, gigem, gregL, GreyFoxx, grokky_, hads, iamlindoro, ikonia, J-e-f-f-A, j-rod|afk, jams, jannau, jarle, JEDIDIAH__, joe___, jpabq, jpabq-, jpharvey, jstenback, justinh, justpaul, jwhite, jya, kc, kenni, Kevin`, kirdneh, knightr, kormoc, kurre, laga_, len, leprechau, Logicwrath, mag0o, markk, MavT, mrand, MythLogBot, natanojl, ozatomic, paul-h, PointyPumper, poptix, Prost, purserj, RDV_Linux, reynaldo, rhpot1991, rooaus, skd5aner, smithna, sphery, Splat1, stuartm, superm1, sutula, tgm4883, ThisNewGuy, tomimo, tris, wagnerrp, xris, yang, ybot, _charly_
Wednesday, November 10th, 2010, 00:04 UTC
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[02:44:19] brianboonstra: Hi – I have found that a MythTV build will happen differently depending on whether my system has libintl / libgettext install (this on OSX). Specifically the configure and build of libexif changes. Is there a policy about that?
[02:44:25] brianboonstra: I ask because B Sutton set up and I am building some binaries for the benefit of the public to put there. I would hate for them to crash just because the average user lacks the dynamic libintl binaries!
[02:47:11] brianboonstra: Not that I know they would (or would not) mind you....libexif is a MythGallery thing I believe and I have no experience with that
[02:55:56] brianboonstra: As a matter of fact, moving those libs appears to cause the frontend, as compiled, to crash. So I alter the question — should something be done to the build configs to prevent the frontend crashing on systems lacking libintl when built on systems that have it installed ?
[03:22:46] xris: Captain_Murdoch: feel free to add me on github: ex-nerd
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[03:24:24] Captain_Murdoch: does that mean you think it could be a good idea as well?
[03:24:54] Captain_Murdoch: seemed like the list went silent when that was mentioned, but I didn't want to read into things. :)
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[03:27:20] Captain_Murdoch: I don't think I can add contributors until the repos are defined since contributors are at the repo level. The existing repo was just a test and I wanted to snag the two main login names just in case.
[03:29:36] Beirdo2: I think it would be best to wait until we push a repo up
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[03:30:56] Beirdo2: It would be good to maybe map the old names to email addresses that we'd use as the new contributor names (if we want them mapped of course)
[03:35:40] ** Captain_Murdoch snags 'cpinkham', just in case. :) **
[03:39:26] Beirdo2: Heh. The github login need not match the contributor info
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[03:41:34] Beirdo2: Probably less confusing when they match or are at least somewhat similar
[03:44:32] xris: hopefully can map xris -> ex-nerd
[03:45:46] Beirdo2: Have to look at the docs to be sure how to do it but it should be possible
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[03:46:06] Beirdo2: Wow this bus is just too hot
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[04:00:18] markk: stuartm: if you're happy with I'll backport later.
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[06:25:09] sphery: markk: Heh, thanks for [27147]. I did up a patch, yesterday to store the audio offset, but it wasn't working because someone was resetting the sync after I set it. I have a feeling it may work, now.
[06:27:17] markk: sphery: just doing the offset saving now...
[06:29:42] sphery: markk: FWIW, here's the patch I had (with some extra verbose I was using to verify it was setting/saving offset):
[06:31:14] sphery: it's basically the same approach as but with the extra settings garbage removed. Don't know if it's more appropriate to use InitAVSync() to initialize it rather than using savedAudioTimecodeOffset and relying on ClearAfterSeek() to set/restore it.
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[06:39:55] markk: sphery: hrm – it's not being saved somewhere
[06:41:47] sphery: markk: with my patch? It was being saved and applied, yesterday, but it seemed that someone else was resetting it in tc_wrap[TC_AUDIO] after the fact
[06:42:56] sphery: I planned to run it in gdb with a breakpoint on AdjustAudioTimecodeOffset() to see who's resetting it... I'm just now compiling your updated version, and would be happy to continue debugging if you want.
[06:46:20] markk: sphery: I've probably gone code blind – but I can't figure out why this isn't working ->
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[06:50:55] sphery: markk: You'd want SaveSettingOnHost()--otherwise, it will be a global setting, right? I'd guess yours isn't working for the same reason mine isn't--that something is resetting tc_wrap[TC_AUDIO] after the constructor.
[06:51:18] sphery: I do like your approach better, than mine, though
[06:52:50] markk: sphery: SaveSetting is fine I think (certainly only setting the host version here)
[06:54:40] sphery: ah, yeah, I had it backwards--SaveSetting() is always a local setting, so you use SaveSettingOnHost() (with NULL host) to do a global...
[06:54:46] sphery: that always confuses me
[07:05:33] markk: sphery: it's the clearafterseek call when we start playback. I can't actually see a reason why we wouldn't always save the audio offset – so maybe saveaudiotimecodeoffset should just go into clearafterseek
[07:06:29] sphery: the patch I had was using saveaudiotimecodeoffset, which was getting restored in clearafterseek()... did you say it didn't work?
[07:06:51] xris: devs should check email and fill out spreadsheet.
[07:10:36] sphery: markk: actually, I just tested the patch I did with the #6581 approach and it works, now, thanks to your changes in [27147]
[07:13:16] sphery: markk: so works... or, we could move the SaveSetting() into AdjustAudioTimecodeOffset() like you did and just use savedAudioTimecodeOffset in constructor?
[07:17:29] markk: sphery: I think I'm done – committing in a sec
[07:17:43] sphery: cool
[07:17:47] sphery: thanks for taking it
[07:17:59] sphery: it will close #4262, too
[07:31:02] sphery: markk: nice--good cleanup
[07:32:04] markk: thanks:)
[07:32:26] markk: el_duerino: svn update is your friend today
[07:32:45] el_duerino: markk; great, dude!
[07:33:07] el_duerino: markk: which ticket did you use?
[07:34:21] sphery: markk: can I close #4262 wontfix with a reference to [27148]?
[07:37:01] sphery: I really don't like the idea of starting down the slippery slope of per-channel adjustment (to be followed by per-codec adjustment, then someone deciding, no, we need host-specific per-channel adjustment and host-specific per-codec adjustment since different frontends use different receivers/TVs or speaker out)
[07:37:19] Beirdo: heh
[07:37:29] Beirdo: let's hope it isn't necessary
[07:37:31] sphery: oh, nvm... it's fixed now :)
[07:38:00] ** sphery lets the professional do his job **
[07:40:07] el_duerino: markk: oh, just saw the changeset. Commit it to trunk means it will be integrated into 0.24 ?
[07:49:56] wagnerrp: no
[07:50:05] wagnerrp: 0.24 has already branched from trunk
[07:50:16] wagnerrp: anything that goes into 0.24 will need to be backported
[07:59:06] el_duerino: ok, thanks
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[10:59:22] stuartm: markk: that's fine, I haven't themed that screen properly yet so I don't mind what is done with it
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[11:52:55] knightr: reynaldo, I sent a Spanish translation your way...
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[12:12:37] reynaldo: knightr: got it, thanks for the nudge
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[14:08:19] stuartm: knightr, reynaldo, kenni: try to get all outstanding translation patches committed ASAP, we'll be releasing today
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[14:09:24] stuartm: patches will of course continue to be accepted for 0.24.1 / 0.24-fixes but as trunk starts to deviate from 0.24 I can't imagine many translators wanting to target both
[14:19:04] stuartm: iamlindoro: I have one last patch for 0.24 which is pretty important since it fixes some problems with the order of events on a first time install which would result in the user never been prompted for language etc
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[14:42:07] skd5aner: stuartm: is the changeset markk made to the audio sync adjustment (27148) the one that came up a few weeks ago someone was asking for that you debating potentially looking at?
[14:42:33] skd5aner: Does it save av sync for a single recording across views, or is it a universal setting applied to any video?
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[14:43:48] skd5aner: (or per channel)?
[14:43:48] xcrracer: xcrracer:df
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[14:45:01] skd5aner: ahh, I see via 4262 it's not per channel, looks like he made it persist across all recordings
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[15:43:04] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: +1 on the email addresses, at the very least board members should get them, if not all devs
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[16:23:19] stuartm: iamlindoro: ok, done
[16:26:17] iamlindoro: stuartm: thanks. But I'm not IRC right now, didn't you hear?  ;)
[16:26:28] wagnerrp: could have fooled me
[16:27:59] stuartm: had to get that stuff in, even as rushed as it was, because without it all the hard work I'd done on locale/language stuff would have been worthless
[16:28:33] iamlindoro: I understand. Glad you were able to get it finished in time
[16:28:47] stuartm: e.g. in certain cases we never prompted users for their language/country, or when we did it was after the US default settings had been loaded etc
[16:30:22] stuartm: the failure to prompt for language seems to be pretty old and therefore I'm surprised it went unnoticed for so long
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[16:34:41] stuartm: Beirdo: "Script timeout exceeded, summarily executing it" << Do you think we could mention which script exactly?
[16:35:39] stuartm: Beirdo: assumed that it's the myth_system code that's printing that ... now thinking that it's actually mythvideo, so sorry about that
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[16:37:34] kenni: stuartm: I actually thought that it was by design on a clean install :) I didn't see the language selection dialog, but I got the Danish locale settings, which was good enough for me
[16:37:41] iamlindoro: I don't think I would have written an error message like that
[16:37:57] wagnerrp: stuartm: for what its worth, mythsystem doesnt have descriptive error messages
[16:38:25] wagnerrp: it prints the PID, but fat lot of good that does after the process has been terminated
[16:38:26] iamlindoro: stuartm: If you *do* find that Mythvideo has an error message like that, let me know and I will fix it, I don't like flip error messages
[16:38:44] stuartm: kenni: the locale stuff will use your system locale by default, but we still want to display the prompt in case you're running on a mis-configured machine, e.g. with an en_US or 'C' locale instead of the correct one
[16:38:45] iamlindoro: might as well write it in klingon
[16:39:24] kenni: stuartm: yep, I just didn't consider that when I tested it
[16:39:36] stuartm: kenni: the language selection prompt will reflect your system locale though, so it will appear with 'Denmark' and 'Danish' selected by default, so all you need to do is hit 'Continue'
[16:39:46] wagnerrp: never does it print which script is being run against which PID
[16:41:33] stuartm: iamlindoro: has the option to do a manual title search been removed? For some reason it's not automatically finding a result for "The Shawshank Redemption"
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[16:42:14] iamlindoro: stuartm: "Sort of..." in that manual title search was the same thing as editing metadata, changing the title, and running a query
[16:42:27] iamlindoro: And it bothered me that we had multiple windows for essentially the same thing
[16:43:08] iamlindoro: To me it seemed like it was more sensible to suggest that edit metadata is the sole interface for doing metadata editing, and handle everything "automatically"
[16:43:08] stuartm: iamlindoro: ok thanks
[16:43:31] iamlindoro: ie, if there's an inetref, always use that, otherwise try based on title/subtitle, etc.
[16:45:37] stuartm: seems my script failure problems are system related, since doing a fresh install to test those changes I just commited all my scripts have 754 perms :(
[16:46:14] stuartm: iamlindoro: sure, no arguments, just wondering
[16:47:37] stuartm: iamlindoro: I don't get to read every commit as carefully as I'd like these days, so I miss some changes
[16:52:26] iamlindoro: no worries
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[17:22:48] skd5aner: BTW – congrats to all the developers and thank you very much for all the hard work that went into 0.24
[17:23:15] skd5aner: I'm very greatful the time and effort you guys put into MythTV and that you share it with us – thank you
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[17:42:58] iamlindoro: xris, kormoc_afk, stuartm, whomever: .24 tarballs are in my ~ on, need moving to the web sync dir
[17:43:12] jannau: thanks iamlindoro
[17:43:24] iamlindoro: jannau: no problem :)
[17:43:38] Beirdo2: Yay. Thanks :)
[17:44:14] Beirdo2: iamlindoro: Is the release pricedure documented somewhere?
[17:44:52] iamlindoro: Beirdo2: Sort of but not really. There's a script that does most of the work in svn, but parts of it need to be run manually, and then one needs to know where to put what
[17:44:59] Beirdo2: That way if you are sick or otherwise unavailable someone else could run it at the appropriate time.
[17:45:01] iamlindoro: I'll work on a checklist as soon as I get all the steps done today
[17:45:10] Beirdo2: K. :)
[17:45:32] Beirdo2: Sounds good to me.
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[17:46:38] Beirdo2: We need to reduce the "oh crap X got hit by a bus" factor somewhat
[17:48:23] stuartm: iamlindoro: done
[17:48:30] iamlindoro: stuartm: thanks
[17:48:57] stuartm: we need to go on a diet, we've gained 3MB since 0.23.1
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[17:50:08] Beirdo2: Ffmpeg resync maybe?
[17:50:13] iamlindoro: More likely my fault
[17:50:15] stuartm: and the binary sizes ... what happened there?
[17:50:20] iamlindoro: internet content scripts -> core
[17:50:45] Beirdo2: Ahhh
[17:51:03] iamlindoro: They are a couple MB, so I may be responsible for much or all of that
[17:51:15] stuartm: iamlindoro: thanks for packaging up things, we really need to get that automated
[17:51:16] iamlindoro: (though in fairness, it's a reshuffle and not an addition)
[17:51:39] iamlindoro: stuartm: NP, I look forward to an indeterminate break but didn't want to leave it undone
[17:52:00] iamlindoro: heh:
[17:52:01] iamlindoro: $topic = 'accouncement';
[17:52:06] iamlindoro: mm, good old accouncements
[17:52:44] stuartm: heh
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[17:53:50] stuartm: accouncement – for when you're too busy/lazy to say 'account announcement'
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[17:55:04] ** iamlindoro is running out of cute things to say about releases/release candidates **
[17:55:09] iamlindoro: (in the accouncements)
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[17:58:58] Chutt: iamlindoro, recycle really old announcements
[17:59:10] Chutt: i mean, no one would remember sub 0.10 ones :p
[17:59:20] iamlindoro: heheh, that's actually a really good idea (and I tend to edit old ones for the meaty bits anyway)
[18:02:04] skd5aner: It think you should use the announcement to launch a salvo against XBMC, Windows MCE, etc... fire a few shots over the bow ;)
[18:02:16] skd5aner: Ali G style
[18:02:45] skd5aner: "Yo suckas! Your PVR solutions are WACK, yo!"
[18:02:57] iamlindoro: "Respect."
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[18:10:08] iamlindoro: xris: Can you remind me where the global $Version variable is set?
[18:10:19] xris: iamlindoro: settings? init? conf? I forget exactly
[18:10:27] iamlindoro: ok, will hunt it down, thanks
[18:11:03] xris: iamlindoro: currently trying to figure out why you don't just have an account on www.. heh.
[18:11:49] xris: but looks like someone else already moved the .24 stuff over
[18:11:50] iamlindoro: heh, I'd probably break things :)
[18:12:15] xris: yeah, includes/conf.php
[18:12:43] iamlindoro: ah, great, there it is, thanks
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[18:17:53] Beirdo: stuartm: I guess I missed that one in changing the myth_system to general+verbose
[18:18:03] Beirdo: if it's a myth_system one
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[18:42:00] iamlindoro: stuartm: Can you give me the absolute path to the web sync dir, for my notes?
[18:43:55] stuartm: /data/www/
[18:44:00] iamlindoro: thank you
[18:48:09] iamlindoro: There, howto sent
[18:48:17] iamlindoro: How to release MythTV in 11 easy steps ;)
[18:48:30] skd5aner: which step is "drink beer"?
[18:48:39] iamlindoro: 12... or at your option, 0
[18:48:45] skd5aner: :D
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[18:51:50] stuartm: it's actually multiple steps, from memory 1,4,7,8,9 and 11
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[18:52:17] kormoc: isn't 11 the vodka shots?
[18:53:47] stuartm: agh, you're right, I wonder why I forgot that ...
[18:53:57] stuartm: could have been step 12, the absinthe
[18:58:02] iamlindoro: I am just waiting on the OSUOSL guys to find a few minutes to run the sync, then we should be good to push the announcement
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[19:16:34] stuartm: ugh, ITV are still pulling the same crap of putting the news in the middle of a film and splitting it into two parts for the schedule, so if you set up a 'Find One' rule you only get half the film
[19:17:15] stuartm: a crate of beer to the person who commits a workaround for that
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[19:39:12] iamlindoro: Easily fixable in traditional MythTV fashion-- you just create a setting called "Append like-named recordings," then manually edit the settings table to increase MaxAppendRecDistance to 90, for a value in minutes, then set the output directory to the same as your recording storage Group, and enable those jobs on your backend. See, dummy? Simple.
[19:39:13] iamlindoro: ;)
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[20:01:08] xris: Captain_Murdoch: any chance you can add me and Beirdo as contributors to the mythtv github account?
[20:01:19] xris: or repo... whichever is appropriate
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[20:09:46] Captain_Murdoch: xris, contributors are added to the repo. if you think 'MythTV' is fine for the repo then I'll add you two right away. That means we use as the repo.
[20:10:18] Captain_Murdoch: I was wondering whether to call it 'trunk', but don't know enough about git to know whether that's good/bad/whatever....
[20:11:58] xris: no, branches and such live within the repo, so no need to call it trunk
[20:12:05] xris: dunno if you'd want to make it lowercase or not
[20:12:13] xris: but mythtv or MythTV works fine with me
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[20:30:52] stuartm: iamlindoro: I think my approach to a fix would involve creating the concept of linked recordings, the guide data would mark two separate programs in the schedules as being two parts of the same 'episode' and so we'd schedule/record them as one
[20:31:50] stuartm: e.g. no setting involved, grabbers/guide sources would be responsible for determining which programmes are treated this way and not us
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[20:41:08] dekarl: stuartm: if you want guide data that's good enough for that your going to need something close to TVAnytime as format so you can see that a1+a2 = b
[20:41:09] dekarl: (that's what one of the german stations is doing... in the evening it has "hot news" inserted, but the repeat is without break) But as MythTV doesn't trust the grabbers on simple things like the time offset I don't see that happening soon ;)
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[20:59:14] Captain_Murdoch: stuartm, with the new recordedfile layout, both parts could be linked
[20:59:38] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: yeah, the tricky part is the scheduler
[20:59:50] stuartm: and that's only because I don't like touching the scheduler
[21:00:03] Captain_Murdoch: yeah and all depends on the quality of your data.
[21:00:42] Captain_Murdoch: in the U.S., some stations show the same exact movie twice in a row (east coast vs west coast viewers that are 3 hours behind).
[21:00:58] Captain_Murdoch: so you'd have to know that that wasn't 2 parts of the same movie.
[21:01:32] stuartm: well UK data is good enough to do it, especially since only one channel interrupts films that way, and it's always the 10pm news but that's why I'd leave the determination to the grabbers and not myth
[21:02:33] Captain_Murdoch: if the grabbers could signify that 'this is part 1 of XYZ' and 'this is part 2 of XYZ', then the scheduler could be made to record both in a 'find one' situation.
[21:02:54] Captain_Murdoch: could even work that out for miniseries possibly somehow.
[21:03:19] Captain_Murdoch: 'find all parts' vs 'find one'. :)
[21:03:34] Captain_Murdoch: or 'find one of all parts'.
[21:06:03] xris: Captain_Murdoch: now if we could just get everyone to update their email addresses...
[21:06:41] stuartm: ?
[21:06:47] xris: Captain_Murdoch: anyway, looks good to me, esp since it's already created
[21:07:01] xris: stuartm: ? to me? check developers list
[21:07:15] Captain_Murdoch: xris, I was about to make it lower, but am fine with either. if it's lower, then that makes it clear it's not a duplicate/typo. :)
[21:07:17] xris: link to google docs spreadsheet with info so we can map svn to github ownership
[21:07:27] xris: I'm fine with that, too.
[21:07:35] xris: I like your idea about a separate one for themes, too
[21:08:10] stuartm: well my email address etc isn't a mystery
[21:08:31] xris: yeah, but we didn't want to just assign stuff to people who might not want it shared on github
[21:08:45] xris: or people like me who add a +mythtv to the user portion
[21:21:54] Captain_Murdoch: ok, changed to lower and contributor list updated. I also updated as well.
[21:23:30] Chutt: i'm on github as ijr, though it doesn't matter _too_ much
[21:26:25] Captain_Murdoch: :) ijr added to MythTV. I didn't add to the themes one because in the end only themers will be in there if we go with the new default and default-wide idea and push all others to MythTV-Themes and the theme download site.
[21:27:23] Captain_Murdoch: can a collaborator admin a repo or can only the owner admin?
[21:28:06] xris: dunno.
[21:28:52] Captain_Murdoch: try it out sometime. if not, then I can distribute the password to a few others for the repo owners.
[21:28:59] xris: it's promptng me to do stuff like import... but dunno what that means
[21:29:38] xris: why create a separate account for themes?
[21:29:41] Captain_Murdoch: I think that's because you have full control over the repo, I'm curious as to whether contributors can add other contributors, etc.. I'd think not, but haven't read enough to know for sure.
[21:29:46] xris: just put it as a "themes" repo under MythTV
[21:30:34] Captain_Murdoch: the idea behind themes is that we (MythTV) don't own/admin that. if we don't and are more hands off, we're not responsible for it and don't have to police it.
[21:30:55] xris: I don't have an "admin" button on the mythtv repo
[21:31:01] xris: so that answers that question
[21:31:06] Captain_Murdoch: if a MythTV developer has a theme in there that's OK, but a non-dev might also be a contributor and have a theme under MythTV-Themes.
[21:31:35] xris: shouldn't matter.. the point is that we should probably maintain the official themes repo.
[21:31:53] xris: other users would use github's fork option, do their work, etc.. and then use a controlled push to get their thing into the official repo
[21:32:05] Captain_Murdoch: the point of this is there isn't an official repo. Official is default and default-wide.
[21:32:14] kormoc: we can define external repos in ours, no?
[21:32:19] kormoc: that's a feature of git, no?
[21:32:23] xris: yeah, github supports subtrees
[21:32:30] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: I don't see any admin type links
[21:32:39] kormoc: so we can have ours and when we add themes to it, we just subtree to theirs
[21:32:48] xris: I just don't see why it needs to be under a separate account... each repo has its own contributors, etc.
[21:32:52] kormoc: they're still in complete control of their own theme
[21:33:05] xris: kormoc: yeah, that's what the fork is about
[21:33:20] xris: user forks the official theme repo, and can then add his/her own
[21:33:24] iamlindoro: xris, kormoc, etc: OSUOSL have triggered our resync, and are offering to set us up with a shell account to let us trigger resyncs whenever we like
[21:33:31] xris: iamlindoro: nice
[21:33:39] kormoc: that'd be really handy
[21:33:39] ** Captain_Murdoch has to go afk for a while, but will be back in an hour or so hopefully. if we want to move it under MythTV, then that's possible as well. I grabbed both the other day just in case. :) **
[21:33:47] iamlindoro: They need a collection of ssh keys, so if we want that we should send them over
[21:34:18] iamlindoro: dunno if we want to send them all/a selection/whatever, but I wouldn't mind being able to do it, and maybe anyone with root access to our server might be handy to have it
[21:34:33] kormoc: aye
[21:34:35] kormoc:
[21:34:37] iamlindoro: Whoever wants to do that should send them over to
[21:34:44] stuartm: iamlindoro: you can upload your public key under the account settings
[21:34:46] iamlindoro: Maybe all as one e-mail to keep it easy on them
[21:34:47] xris: iamlindoro:
[21:35:00] stuartm: oh, sorry, OSUOSL
[21:35:02] ** iamlindoro has no idea where his public key is, heh **
[21:35:09] stuartm: some cross-over there
[21:35:25] xris: iamlindoro: yeah, one email would probably be better
[21:35:33] stuartm: iamlindoro: .ssh/
[21:35:36] xris: and then I assume once a few of us are in, we should be able to add others
[21:36:48] stuartm: mine is on the server in the authorized_keys file if anyone wants to add it
[21:37:03] stuartm: well the svn vserver at least
[21:37:47] iamlindoro: xris: also, the resync is done so you can push the .24 announcement at your leisure
[21:38:05] Chutt: should make a user on one of the vservers and add that user
[21:38:11] kormoc: we need to fix the perms on the /root on the main server
[21:38:14] Chutt: so people could just su to it
[21:38:42] stuartm: that makes sense
[21:39:49] xris: done
[21:40:12] xris: well, thanks to isaac's vote I can finally close out the SD request and get us a virt.
[21:40:21] iamlindoro: xris: You mind sending that e-mail then? (assuming done = creating a user that folks can su to)
[21:40:34] xris: iamlindoro: too busy at work at the moment — I'll forget
[21:40:47] xris: if I have time tonight, I'll set it up and we can start working on new trac, etc.
[21:41:00] iamlindoro: xris: OK. I'll just hold off for a bit then, I'd rather we do it right and we not rush it and have to ask them to change things later :)
[21:41:17] xris: yeah, good idea
[21:41:19] xris: we're fine for now.
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[21:48:00] superm1: Captain_Murdoch, seeing themes as a separate repo – is that meaning myththemes -> MythTV-Themes/themes.git? mythtv-> MythTV/mythtv.git and mythplugins -> MythPlugins/mythplugins.git?
[21:50:17] stuartm: just how fine-grained can the permissions be with git/github?
[21:55:42] xris: stuartm: we *could* do things like move translation control out of normal committer access, and just have translators fork/track the mythtv repo and push commits back to us through that github method
[21:56:08] xris: superm1: I suspect that mythtv.git will contain mythtv and mythplugins
[21:56:16] xris: only themes is getting split out
[21:56:29] superm1: okay, that makes sense to me then
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[21:56:41] xris: stupid xchat
[21:56:53] xris: anyway, I could see us doing MythTV/mythtv and MythTV/plugins
[21:56:57] superm1: xris, what's the plan for trac then? the git plugin for it?
[21:57:07] xris: github has trac integration
[21:57:13] superm1: oh neat
[21:57:16] xris: so will be looking into that with the trac upgrade
[21:57:27] xris: still a number of us hoping for a switch to Jira
[21:57:31] xris: but we'll get trac up and running first
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[22:06:31] jannau: I would prefer if we don't use github or another git hosting service as primary repo
[22:07:49] jannau: and I would have like more discussion on it
[22:12:01] jannau: if we want a temporarily solution we can host it on my server with access for everyone through a ssh key
[22:12:26] xris: what's wrong with github?
[22:14:03] jannau: I prefer not to rely on anyone's else free service if we can do handle it on our own infrastructure
[22:15:04] xris: I trust github/rackspace over anything we can do at the moment
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[22:15:43] xris: and in this case it's one less thing that we have to maintain
[22:20:17] jannau: my server is solid, hosting git uses not much resource except bandwidth for clones
[22:21:01] jannau: I really dislike the web interfaces on github and gitorious
[22:21:16] xris: ah. and here I think github's web viewer is the best one out there.
[22:21:18] xris: at least for branches, etc
[22:21:40] xris: I honestly don't care one way or another.. github was fast/easy so Chris set it up
[22:25:19] xris: it would be trivial to get git running on the new mythtv server, though
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[22:29:17] kenni: guys, we need a 0.24-fixes milestone in Trac..
[22:29:29] xris: need to talk to Beirdo.. he's in some most-of-the-day training at the moment
[22:29:41] sphery: kenni: you can create one...
[22:29:52] kenni: sphery: Ohh, I'll have a look
[22:29:59] kenni: thx
[22:30:23] ** xris hopes more devs update their email addresses **
[22:30:33] sphery: kenni: click on Admin then Milestones, then Add Milestone
[22:30:41] kenni: yes, found it :)
[22:30:42] sphery: and thanks for getting it
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[23:04:55] jya: I agree with the post from Axel from atrpms ; we should bump the solib to .25 the moment trunk isn't compatible with 0.24-fixes ... This is something that has bothered me for a while...
[23:05:08] jya: why can't we bump the solib earlier in the process?
[23:08:30] kenni: xris: Can you shred some light on ? Is HTML entities needed in the Mythweb translation files, for correctly displaying of special characters in certain environments?
[23:08:34] kenni: xris: I don't think I've had any issues with special characters in Mythweb myself, but I don't know enough about the subject to say if that should be true for all environments.
[23:13:49] xris: kenni: looks like a unicode vs non-unicode issue
[23:14:48] xris: the entities stuff may have been left over from when I had a messed up unicode environment or something
[23:14:52] xris: it *should* work with unicode now
[23:15:59] j-rod: rhel6 and mythtv 0.24 released on the same day. I think this is a sign. of what, I don't know though.
[23:16:00] kenni: xris: I don't think the translator has had any issues, it's just a general question from him (and me)
[23:16:22] kenni: is RHEL6 out??? I didn't notice...wuhu! :)
[23:17:01] kormoc: j-rod, the end of days
[23:17:47] kenni: xris: So, if the charset is correctly set in the HTML head (which it is on the Mythweb on the pages I checked), there should be no need for using HTML entities, as long as the encoding of the file is correct?
[23:18:22] xris: should, yes
[23:18:40] xris: now, *trac* seems to be displaying things in the wrong charset.. heh
[23:19:15] kormoc: j-rod, new drizzle release today too
[23:20:10] kenni: xris: "should" is all I expect from it :) Thanks...btw, I noticed that the source (translation) strings in Mythweb encodes " as &quot;...isn't that an ISO8859–1 HTML entity? I think the unicode ones are called &# something
[23:20:33] jab (jab! has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[23:20:53] xris: &quot; is standard for that stuff.
[23:21:11] xris: the &# is for when you want to do numeric stuff that doesn't have a specific name
[23:22:26] kenni: xris: ok, thanks
[23:23:33] stuartm: I was going to go along with github since there seemed to be some momentum behind it, but I do agree with jannau that it would be preferable to be self-sufficient and not have to rely on a third party service
[23:23:37] dekarl: kenni: notice that quot is a valid xml entity (together with amp, apos, lt and gt) everything else is custom stuff
[23:23:52] j-rod: will have to build me some release packages when I get home
[23:24:17] xris: stuartm: I'm on the fence. there is a certain amount of work involved in maintaining things.. github has redundancy that we don't/won't
[23:24:22] ** j-rod heads home. :) **
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[23:24:38] xris: heck, I'd like to consider having osu manage the mailing lists for us, too
[23:24:48] superm1: it would be nice if when trac decided to take a crap it didn't take the vcs down with it
[23:24:50] xris: nice thing about git is that it'll be easy to move the repo in the future, though
[23:25:03] xris: superm1: new trac with mysql backing should help resolve that
[23:25:13] xris: we're dropping the virt setup, too
[23:25:14] superm1: well that and keeping the vcs separate :)
[23:25:15] xris: moving to centos
[23:25:45] stuartm: xris: the lack of redundancy has not really been a problem for us so far, nor are we really burden by the server maintenance and it needs looking after for all our other uses anyway
[23:26:44] xris: yup
[23:26:46] xris: no argument there
[23:26:47] stuartm: I wouldn't call my objection to github/sourceforge et al a strong one, but I wouldn't call them a first choice personally
[23:27:12] xris: I think this was a "we can move to git now, before having access to a new server" decision
[23:27:18] xris: but we should have the new server set up tonight
[23:27:39] xris: jannau's issues are with github's interface... which is a legit concern as well...
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[23:41:12] Captain_Murdoch: jannau, I just grabbed those as a 'just in case'. I'm not trying to force anyone to github. I do like their interface though, but it's been my only exposure. There's also nothing that says we can't use them as our primary for their redundancy, HA, backups, etc.. and maintain our own mirror/clone/whatever-it's-called on our server as a backup in case github is down or goes down hard. would git on our own server have it's own in
[23:41:12] Captain_Murdoch: terface or are there multiple bolt-on interfaces we could choose from (not counting trac since trac/jira can integrate with github)
[23:42:46] Captain_Murdoch: I like to keep things in-house, as people at work would testify. :) perhaps we are primary and maintain a github mirror for if/when we are down.
[23:42:49] kormoc: Captain_Murdoch, or we can go the other way, us -> github and have the unwashed masses slam github for all their read only requests
[23:42:57] Captain_Murdoch: beat ya! :)
[23:43:05] Captain_Murdoch: at least in my chat logs.
[23:43:19] kormoc: yeah, you did by a smig ;)
[23:43:40] Captain_Murdoch: that works fine for me as well. keeps users from saying "is git down?" in IRC, just blame github. :)
[23:45:04] xris: Captain_Murdoch: yeah, that was the original plan.
[23:45:38] xris: we dev via ssh on, and have a post-push hook to copy things to github
[23:45:39] Captain_Murdoch: so if we do that, then we can start using github and then the only people that have to change are developers, users and packagers can continue (or have to continue) pulling from github.
[23:46:21] Captain_Murdoch: or we wait a week or two and go with the final config from the start (my preference)
[23:46:49] xris: yeah.
[23:46:57] xris: at the moment the holdup is getting email addresses from people
[23:47:11] xris: or we decide we don't care
[23:47:30] ** Captain_Murdoch is afk putting baby to bed. **
[23:51:01] smithna (smithna! has joined #mythtv

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