MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

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Monday, November 8th, 2010, 00:11 UTC
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[12:39:45] kenni: knightr: reynaldo: I guess the release of 0.24 is still scheduled for tonight(?). If you need help with the backporting of the Spanish translations already in trunk, feel free to ping me.
[12:40:48] knightr: kenni, I'm doing it right now... BTW, are you sure it's tonight?
[12:42:48] kenni: knightr, no, there're still more than 0 tickets left ;) But one week has passed since RC2 and beirdo indicated it on the -developers list a few days ago
[12:44:08] knightr: kenni, it's consistent with the initial timeline (about a week after RC2...)
[12:59:36] knightr: kenni, reynaldo: Should be all of them, as soon as I get a break today I'll make sure and backport the rest if I forgot anything...
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[12:59:48] kenni: knightr, cool
[13:02:24] el_duerino: Hi guys, general question: some devs, including me, have worked on audio sync for LCD TVs several times, but no patch or idea made its way to the head. Latest ticket is #4262. I would really like watching shows with lips synchonized to the audio, as I imagine, many others with LCDs would, too. So, how can we speed up the integration?
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[13:14:03] markk: el_duerino: funnily enough, I've been thinking about this recently. from my perspective, what I need is a persistent, adjustable sync value for different audio track types. my audio goes into a separate amp – mp2/mp3 is fine, multi-channel dts etc needs adjustment. so there's me wanting track settings, others wanting per channel, some wanting per video source, some probably want it for sd vs hd (where the tv is adding extra processing)
[13:14:12] markk: all told – there is no simple solution
[13:14:15] kenni: knightr: it seems like you got all of them
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[13:16:01] el_duerino: markk: So, if no solution fitting for all users is possible, why shouldn't we focus on what the mass of users want?
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[13:17:00] el_duerino: in most cases, you don't find a solution which satisfies all users.
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[14:32:11] stuartm: markk: if you're looking at it then I'll remove it from my list, I don't run my audio through an external amp and so it really doesn't affect me (or most users) at all
[14:34:19] markk: el_duerino: so what do most users want:)
[14:34:42] el_duerino: markk: well, as I am not jesus, why we don't start a poll? ;-)
[14:34:53] markk: stuartm: it's not on the top of my list – and the list is quite long
[14:35:15] el_duerino: markk: if you need help...
[14:36:18] stuartm: markk: wasn't high on my list either, but since I was tired of hearing people nag about it and a simple solution which uses just one global value would take 5 minutes I added it to the list for 0.25 anyway
[14:36:52] stuartm: if someone wants to work on a more complicated solution then I won't mind
[14:37:30] el_duerino: stuartm: a already implemented this 5-min solution...
[14:38:31] el_duerino: Ticket #6581
[14:40:12] stuartm: I still maintain that the reason given in that ticket is bogus, that any TV which delays the video on a digital input but not the audio should be returned to the retailer as not fit for purpose
[14:41:14] stuartm: and normally it's not our business to implement workarounds for broken hardware/software, but ...
[14:41:34] el_duerino: stuartm: Maybe – but even my 30 bucks dvd player has this bloody setting for a audio delay
[14:42:33] el_duerino: and i don't want to buy a TV with a worse display but better audio sync than mine has
[14:43:19] markk: el_duerino: at the minimum, you'll need to update that patch for trunk. personally I'd rather see it as a persistent setting like volume or brightness
[14:44:37] el_duerino: markk: you mean, an additional setting in parallel to the non-persistent audio sync setting that is already contained?
[14:45:01] stuartm: you make it sound like there has to be a compromise, there doesn't, the delay in video processing is a known value, delaying the audio by the same factor is a no-brainer and it's honestly shocking that a) manufacturers are putting out sets like this b) customers are not complaining
[14:46:02] markk: el_duerino: no – essentially just make the existing adjustment persistent. no need for a 'setting'
[14:46:43] el_duerino: stuartm: As a software developer, i agree 100%. As a plain user, setting a value is easier for me than throwing my 1300€ TV out of the window an buying a new one ;-)
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[14:47:45] markk: so – are we releasing today? if not, I'm off to bed:)
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[14:48:42] clever: only thing i can think of to 'perfectly' sync the a/v, would be to sound a short tone every time it flashes a white frame, and then manualy syncronize the 2 events by adjusting the offset
[14:49:13] stuartm: el_duerino: well hence why I said 'return' and not 'throw out the window' ;) I think I've already conceded that a persistent audio sync can be added, I just do it grudgingly and more for the benefit of those who are routing their audio through external amps
[14:49:20] clever: simpler then trying to find a piece of video clip in some random show that gives the right clues
[14:49:51] stuartm: markk: that's the plan, but I'm hoping it's not done too early today, I still want to squeeze in a couple of minor fixes
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[14:51:00] stuartm: clever: BBC HD channel broadcasts a 5.1 audio sync sequence that is ideal
[14:51:21] stuartm: I thought I'd stuck a copy online but I can't seem to find it
[14:51:39] clever: stuartm: could just include a small copy of that, since not everybody has access to BBC HD
[14:51:42] el_duerino: markk: so, thats exactly what http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6581 did. Because I don't want to mix up the existing tickets, how should we proceed here; reopen 6581 or creating a new one?
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[14:52:15] stuartm: clever: we can't redistribute it without permission, even sticking the 60s clip online breaches copyright law
[14:52:32] clever: stuartm: ah :(
[14:52:44] clever: could make your own similar one from scratch
[14:53:14] stuartm: if I had a video editor and infinite patience ... maybe
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[14:53:59] clever: i can probly get the video half done in no time with ffmpeg, but creating the audio and syncing it would be another thing
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[15:00:00] clever: stuartm: is that BBC HD sync clip clearly labled in the guide data?
[15:00:11] clever: could just have a button that auto-records it and then makes use of it
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[17:33:06] sphery: markk / stuartm : I'm hoping to make a lot of our little settings (like captions (whether enabled and which captions) and ...) persistent. If you like, I can add A/V sync to the list. Also, if we do go with some additional setting, I think it should be per-stream in streaminfo or something ( http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/TaskRecordedFile ).
[17:33:57] sphery: elmojo / markk : and, speaking of the recordedfile schema, I'd be interested in hearing whether you think we need more/different fields for streaminfo/audioinfo/videoinfo in http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/TaskRecordedFile + http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/recordedfile_schema.png
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[17:36:28] sphery: elmojo / markk: It's not high priority, though, so don't feel you have to provide feedback right away (and, worst-case scenario, it can be adjusted easily enough even after the initial schema work goes in). More than anything, just wanted to let you know that you do have a voice in the design if you want it.
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[18:25:19] elmojo: sphery: the only addition to seek table generation that I can think of which would be nice is the inclusion of frame repeat and accurate total duration information when mythcommflag runs
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[18:26:06] elmojo: which then could be used for average frame rate calculations
[18:33:10] sphery: elmojo: So the repeat info would go in recordedseek (eventually, videoseek), right? Total duration would be per stream or per file?
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[18:50:56] yang: Can anyone provide assistance with ASUS My Cinema U3100 DVB-T USB card , There used to be an entry at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Asus_My_Cinema_U3100_mini but it has been deleted
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[19:01:28] ** Beirdo points at the topic **
[19:01:31] elmojo: sphery: yes, that should be correct
[19:02:02] elmojo: if put to use it would cure the "length of show is less than actual" reports
[19:02:16] Beirdo: or at least most of em
[19:02:21] sphery: so should I add it to the stream or the file data?
[19:02:36] Beirdo: ones caused by faulty recordings (OTA, especially) will likely still exist
[19:02:52] Beirdo: as entire chunks of frames will be missing and not counted
[19:03:19] elmojo: sphery: frame repeats will only apply to the original broadcast recording and total duration can apply to all files for the recording/video
[19:03:55] sphery: OK, so I'll plan for a file duration
[19:04:02] elmojo: Beirdo: I don't know why you haven't asked that reporter for a -v playback,timestamp log file to see if repeats are his issue
[19:04:08] elmojo: sphery: thanks
[19:04:27] sphery: thank you
[19:04:38] Beirdo: on #9102? I never thought of it
[19:05:25] Beirdo: feel free to chime in on the ticket though :) Basically, I'm running out of ideas as to why his recordings in particular are just so wonky
[19:06:32] Beirdo: err, wrong tick #
[19:06:49] Beirdo: #9109 rather
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[19:07:59] Beirdo: there, I added it
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[21:18:28] wagnerrp: does anyone have a problem with me committing some potentially disruptive patches to the bindings tonight after the release?
[21:18:55] wagnerrp: ive got a layer set up to allow support for either MySQLdb or oursql database modules
[21:19:21] wagnerrp: oursql is needed for python 2.7
[21:20:16] wagnerrp: its worked in my local testing, but query syntax is slightly different for each, and im sure there are going to be issues popping up that ive not come across yet
[21:22:20] wagnerrp: this commit is also going to drop python 2.5 support, making 2.6 a minimum
[21:23:08] xris: Captain_Murdoch: http://revue.logitech.com/MartiniWeb/digitalh . . . ers?a_id=425
[21:26:02] wagnerrp: sadly 'H264/AVC' is not very descriptive
[21:26:04] Captain_Murdoch: I wonder if those are a standard/requirement for GoogleTV or can each vendor implement their own list. DivX/XVid MPEG4 video could be nice since those are easier to encode realtime.
[21:26:12] wagnerrp: would be nice if they at least gave a level and profile
[21:26:20] Captain_Murdoch: wagnerrp, yeah. so check the 'it wasn't helpful' option. :)
[21:29:20] xris: my understanding from reading the android docs is that it's a limitation of the codec library within android itself
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[21:37:45] jannau: wagnerrp: not a problem but I would prefer it if you could wait a couple of days
[21:38:21] wagnerrp: jannau: fair enough, ive just had this stuff sitting on my server for about a week now, and im getting an itchy finger
[21:40:26] xris: wagnerrp: I think there are a ton of commits waiting to happen. heh
[21:43:00] Beirdo: there are :)
[21:43:15] Beirdo: there will be a lot of "tidy and commit" going on in the next week or so, I bet
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[22:11:13] xris: Captain_Murdoch: you see the logitech revue review on engadget?
[22:11:40] xris: http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/08/logitech-r . . . e-tv-review/
[22:12:31] xris: imho sounds like it's almost not worth bothering to get devices.. and just use the linux chrome from within mythtv.
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[23:38:27] markk: sphery: I'm thinking I may just commit the av sync stuff – should be fairly straightforward. I don't think the per-stream offsets should be in the streaminfo though – for the majority(?) I think the sync is a hardware issue that will vary by frontend.
[23:39:47] markk: el_duerino: sorry – went to bed half way through that conversation:)
[23:40:34] sphery: markk: agreed... I like the just-remember-the-offset fix best. Anything more is far too complex for all the reasons you said.
[23:41:40] sphery: markk: I do have the patch that does the same for captions already done, so if you'd like I could do up the A/V sync one pretty quickly.
[23:43:28] markk: sphery: heh – go for it.
[23:43:52] sphery: Then again, A/V sync doesn't currently have a setting so it's probably more player changes than anything... I'll give it a shot in about an hour.
[23:45:12] Beirdo: this will be post-0.24, right?
[23:45:35] sphery: works for me
[23:46:16] Beirdo: we are rapidly running out of "testing" time on anything that gets popped into 0.24 before release... as release is when? a couple hours or so out, maybe?
[23:47:02] stuartm: no sign of iamlindoro, maybe postponed for 24 hours?
[23:47:40] Beirdo: hmmm, we'll see if he's on in a bit, I guess. He's west coast, and it's 3:47pm here
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[23:47:48] Beirdo: so after he's done work, maybe :)
[23:47:53] sphery: yeah, and the ticket is currently at an unknown milestone, so no rush to get it into 0.24, IMHO
[23:48:09] markk: I was thinking 0.25
[23:48:22] Beirdo: and it would be good to get the release process nicely documented so iamlindoro isn't "stuck" doing it all the time :)
[23:48:51] sphery: I'll probably close #4262 and re-open #6581, since the end result will be more like a settings-widget-free version of #6581
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[23:49:12] stuartm: hmm, http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8995 should really get fixed, it's simple enough but I'm already thinking about calling it a night
[23:52:34] sphery: FWIW, iamlindoro is traveling and was considering doing the release via laptop using hotel wireless. He asked if I could do it if I hadn't heard from him, but I never got the e-mail from him with the script/instructions he's been using...
[23:54:14] sphery: stuartm: I'll look at #8995, but I don't know that I can test it.
[23:56:19] stuartm: sphery: seems unnecessary in this case, it's simply not checking for a valid state
[23:56:54] markk: I'll take 8995
[23:56:59] Beirdo: sphery: OK, good to know. If we need to, we can delay until he's reachable.
[23:57:26] sphery: markk: probably good--since you know what the player states mean :) Thanks.

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