| Wednesday, November 3rd, 2010, 00:04 UTC | ||
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| [00:32:46] | pyther: | Hello |
| [00:34:36] | pyther: | For packaging, should a linux distro package official release tarballs or the svn fixes branch? |
| [00:35:13] | iamlindoro: | fixes, ideally on a rolling basis |
| [00:35:49] | iamlindoro: | Any bug grave enough to deserve a backported fix is worth getting out to users |
| [00:36:20] | pyther: | iamlindoro: ok, great, is there any official documentation on the fixes branch? |
| [00:36:43] | iamlindoro: | I'm not sure what we would document, the commits of the fixes should speak for themselves, generally |
| [00:37:22] | pyther: | ok, thats fine, just looking for some "concret" evidence to backup what you said, if any existed, no biggy |
| [00:37:37] | iamlindoro: | pyther, You've lost me-- what's to prove? |
| [00:37:58] | iamlindoro: | the release tarball is a fixed moment in time where we declare a release exists |
| [00:38:18] | iamlindoro: | the fixes branch is all of that, plus those bugfixes deemed critical enough to be backported to an existing release |
| [00:38:29] | pyther: | iamlindoro: I was simply looking to see if what you said was written anywhere on the website |
| [00:38:50] | iamlindoro: | no, it's just how maintaining a release branch works the world over |
| [00:40:26] | pyther: | cool, thanks |
| [00:40:28] | iamlindoro: | np |
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| [02:01:07] | iamlindoro: | http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7546203/ |
| [02:01:08] | iamlindoro: | ;) |
| [02:04:00] | xris: | iamlindoro: telling the story of your day? |
| [02:04:11] | iamlindoro: | xris, heh, every day ;) |
| [02:07:33] | xris: | your voice sounds... synthetic. ;) |
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| [02:38:40] | danielk22: | "I am an excellent perl scripter, you guys don't know what you are missing." hahaha |
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| [02:42:59] | xris: | danielk22: from where? |
| [02:48:00] | danielk22: | at the end of the video |
| [02:55:24] | xris: | ahh |
| [02:55:35] | xris: | it was distracting the baby so I had to turn it off |
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| [02:56:05] | ** kormoc blinks ** | |
| [02:56:17] | kormoc: | Doesn't *everything* distract the baby? |
| [02:56:39] | xris: | kormoc: some more than others. and when he's nursing, anything is bad |
| [02:56:48] | xris: | hmm, mythdroid no workee with trunk... |
| [02:56:55] | xris: | maybe I have to learn how to compile android apps |
| [02:57:19] | xris: | foobum_: you plan to release a version compatible with 0.24? |
| [03:02:33] | xris: | anyone have a quick guestimate of the amount of work to expose a frontend api call that lists all of the commands that it's open to receiving at any given moment? |
| [03:03:09] | kormoc: | doesn't it have one currently? |
| [03:03:39] | xris: | does it? thought it listed the mode, not "you can press A and I will do something" |
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| [03:03:53] | xris: | or "Menu comand would do something" |
| [03:03:55] | kormoc: | well, mode tells you what it can do... |
| [03:05:13] | xris: | "recording" mode has submodes |
| [03:05:33] | xris: | when you're in the cutlist editor, you can't just bring up the normal menu |
| [03:05:48] | xris: | thinking about what it'd take to build a truly context-sensitive remote control app |
| [03:06:23] | xris: | so when in cutlist, it would have cursor movement items, along with "insert start/end point", delete current point, etc. |
| [03:06:52] | xris: | I guess the code probably doesn't register what it accepts, but just runs down a loop of things and ignores stuff it doesn't understand |
| [03:07:14] | iamlindoro: | That is more or less exactly what it does |
| [03:12:42] | xris: | yeah, figured |
| [03:12:49] | xris: | which equates to my answer being "a lot of work" |
| [03:12:51] | xris: | heh |
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| [09:38:46] | stuartm: | xris: yeah it would be pretty complicated, having each screen register upfront what actions it handles would be one thing (slightly messy), but even within a screen there can be lots of contexts, actions which result in different behaviour or which are ignored depending on the current state, compiling a list would mean performing duplicating all those checks |
| [09:39:52] | stuartm: | it's a very nice idea, I just don't see how to do it efficiently, without code duplication etc – if someone comes up with a reasonable solution I'd be happy to help with it |
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| [12:41:03] | danielk22: | xris: stuartm: just push the key context onto a stack when it is active, pop it when it becomes inactive, then you can easily check which key bindings are active at any time. It could also be used to simplify handling, but that xan be handled separately. |
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| [13:03:50] | stuartm: | danielk22: I thought xris was after something a little more fine-grained than that, the existing key contexts contain a lot of stuff which isn't necessarily applicable to the current screen/mode |
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| [13:52:28] | danielk22: | stuartm: xris: In that case it sounds like an impossible task :) |
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| [14:50:41] | iamlindoro: | !trout j-rod|afk birthday |
| [14:50:41] | ** MythLogBot slaps j-rod|afk with a birthday trout on behalf of iamlindoro... ** | |
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| [15:51:11] | iamlindoro: | Heh, interesting historical perspective: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/SoC2006 |
| [15:51:36] | iamlindoro: | four years on and we're finally, maybe, possibly going to do some of those :) |
| [15:54:22] | stuartm: | can we collect on the payments? ;) |
| [15:56:42] | stuartm: | I'll happily accept $5500 for mythui and my cut of the mythweather/settings cleanup :P |
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| [16:21:07] | ** iamlindoro doubles stuartm's salary ** | |
| [16:26:59] | stuartm: | woohoo! |
| [16:27:21] | danielk22: | iamlindoro: re: 9175, isn't there already a defect ticket for the udp notify regression ? maybe 9175 should just be marked a dupe |
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| [16:30:38] | iamlindoro: | danielk22: Well, the notification widget (at least, as I understand what stuartm had planned for it) is more new feature than bugfix, since it is supposed to be an implementation we've never had before |
| [16:30:45] | iamlindoro: | But I don't feel strongly either way *shrug* |
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| [16:31:42] | iamlindoro: | I could just reopen the bug and assign it to stuartm to put pressure on him to write it ;) |
| [16:31:49] | iamlindoro: | And mark it blocker->24 ;) |
| [16:32:30] | iamlindoro: | I think #8619 would be the dupe if we considered it that |
| [16:32:45] | jamesba: | what did the notification widget do? |
| [16:32:58] | iamlindoro: | We've never had a notification widget |
| [16:33:14] | danielk22: | iamlindoro: yeah, I looked at this ticket this morning and didn't know what to do about it. The OSD notification is a regression, but stuartm's replacement is a feature.. :P |
| [16:33:20] | iamlindoro: | We had a popup in video playback that allowed you to relay notifications only when video was going |
| [16:33:26] | iamlindoro: | But that went away in the OSD port |
| [16:33:35] | ** jamesba nods ** | |
| [16:33:41] | iamlindoro: | our proposed new solution is a true universal notification system that would work UI-wide |
| [16:33:49] | stuartm: | the osd port dropped the existing dialogs, if someone wants to re-add those for 0.24 as an interim measure until the global widget is written then they are welcome to do so, but I don't see it being worth the effort |
| [16:34:01] | jamesba: | just so we're on the same page here, what do you mean by notifications? |
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| [16:34:20] | danielk22: | partss of it went away.. parts are still there to confuse our users :P |
| [16:34:37] | iamlindoro: | jamesba: Well, that would be open to the person using them-- we had a relay application that allowed someone to write XML templates so that it could be anything... caller ID, info, etc. |
| [16:34:53] | danielk22: | you can still send notifications.. we just don't show them :) |
| [16:35:08] | jamesba: | ok, I still have no idea what you mean :) |
| [16:35:21] | jamesba: | notifications sent *to* the mythtv frontend? |
| [16:35:32] | iamlindoro: | jamesba: A popup window containing text/information generated dynamically |
| [16:35:34] | iamlindoro: | yes |
| [16:35:39] | jamesba: | ah ok |
| [16:36:00] | iamlindoro: | The most common use of it was for Caller ID... but since it only ever worked in video playback, the implementation was always a little lackluster |
| [16:36:06] | jamesba: | right, I was thinking the other way around — the myth frontend sending out notifications when its status changed |
| [16:36:21] | danielk22: | jamesba: we do that too :) |
| [16:36:28] | stuartm: | jamesba: think of it like the old windows message application – user runs "mythnotify --alert_text Dinner's ready" and all the frontends currently playing video saw a window popup with that message |
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| [16:36:56] | stuartm: | used udp multicast to simultaneously reach all frontends |
| [16:37:06] | jamesba: | danielk22: really? I've been polling the telnet interface to get the information, couldn't find any sort of notification of changes to the frontend's status |
| [16:37:30] | danielk22: | jamesba: look up Myth System Events |
| [16:37:36] | stuartm: | jamesba: the 'system events' concept was added in 0.23 |
| [16:38:35] | jamesba: | I see them |
| [16:39:54] | jamesba: | ok, I think I can use this, thanks! |
| [16:40:22] | ** iamlindoro wonders about "System Event Profiles" for ISVs... hmm ** | |
| [16:40:43] | jamesba: | you can bind the events to any kind of executable file, yes? |
| [16:40:48] | iamlindoro: | yes |
| [16:42:06] | jamesba: | so I could, for example, send a dbus message in response to the events |
| [16:42:16] | jamesba: | excellent |
| [16:42:21] | stuartm: | yup |
| [16:42:25] | iamlindoro: | Can/should be able to just about anything you like |
| [16:42:50] | danielk22: | jamesba: yes.. one of the ideas was to make implementing things like LinuxMCE less kludgey. |
| [16:43:10] | iamlindoro: | There are probably a bunch of places, particularly in plugins, where the existing events could be fleshed out a lot... to the point where I'd kind of like to see Event contexts |
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| [16:45:36] | ** jamesba nods ** | |
| [16:46:11] | stuartm: | if the range of interfaces and protocols for MythTV isn't completely confusing, then we'll have to redouble our efforts :p |
| [16:46:17] | jamesba: | I can already think of a few extra ones which might be useful, such as an event which triggers when you jump around in playback |
| [16:46:47] | ** jamesba grins ** | |
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| [16:49:28] | jamesba: | well, my work involves designing an API for remote network control of any set-top box, so seeing how well it works when mapped to Myth (a rather different architecture from what we originally had in mind when we designed it) has been useful. It does mean that potentially it'll add yet another control mechanism which piggybacks ontop of several of the others |
| [16:49:47] | jamesba: | though |
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| [19:13:19] | danielk22: | Beirdo: Re: #9171, can't we just get rid of this limitation and handle it more like we do MythProto connections to the backend? i.e. start with X threads and rate limit the adding new threads to the pool. Or is that the plan, but it just hasn't been done yet? |
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| [19:19:42] | Beirdo: | that's generally the plan |
| [19:20:07] | Beirdo: | the code in there now will bring up new threads in the pool, but only to a max, which by default is 5, which is way too low |
| [19:20:38] | Beirdo: | we will need to tweak it good in 0.25 as we will be using that server even more for the setup |
| [19:21:31] | Beirdo: | as the short-term fix, just bump the max (much like you would in Apache), but yes, I would like to see it being more sane |
| [19:25:22] | danielk22: | Beirdo: Should we just bump the max to 25 for 0.24 ? |
| [19:25:55] | danielk22: | It seems we're getting a fair number of people running into the current limit. |
| [19:26:02] | Beirdo: | danielk22: possibly. 20 works fine in my setup, but 25 should work all that much better in peak conditions |
| [19:26:05] | Beirdo: | agreed |
| [19:26:21] | Beirdo: | we could change the default max to 25 |
| [19:28:02] | Beirdo: | the only downside I could see would be memory usage for the stack for the extra threads, but they are only activated as needed. |
| [19:32:21] | Beirdo: | I can get that in right now if ya want. |
| [19:40:03] | stuartm: | threads are not culled after a period of inactivity? |
| [19:43:38] | Beirdo: | as far as I know, 60s of inactivity, and they are culled |
| [19:44:11] | Beirdo: | but we tend to use them heavily at times (especially with mythweb reloads, etc in some places) and they run out |
| [19:46:12] | Beirdo: | I was chatting with kormoc a while back... I'd like to have a "scoreboard" type of extension in there (like apache) so we can see exactly what each thread is doing, etc |
| [19:47:17] | clever: | one of the patches i was working on helps with that kind of thing |
| [19:47:42] | clever: | i was trying to print the threadid in every VERBOSE msg, so i could un-interleave the messages without having to know what thread everything came from by memory |
| [19:48:07] | clever: | but gettid() doesnt seem to work, so all i could do was print out QT's threadid# |
| [19:48:13] | Beirdo: | that's different altogether |
| [19:48:44] | clever: | both ideas might help to figure out why my frontend keeps non responding while playing |
| [19:49:08] | clever: | my best idea right now is that the main thread is stalled, causing it to ignore all events (lirc, keyboard, telnet) |
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| [19:56:20] | stuartm: | Beirdo: ok, so long as they are culled there's no real reason to be concerned about memory usage IMHO, no modern machine would find it a problem even with the maximum number of threads in use |
| [19:56:37] | Beirdo: | yeah, that was my thought too |
| [19:57:15] | Beirdo: | I'm going to take a look at my H.264 (from HD-PVR) to see if it behaves like either of #9126 or #9176 |
| [19:57:53] | Beirdo: | I haven't noticed it being wrong at all, but maybe if I take a good look at it... I'll see otherwise |
| [19:59:58] | clever: | Beirdo: ah, now that i read more, i see which threads you where talking about, more like apache then i was thinking |
| [20:01:45] | stuartm: | Beirdo: I'm being a little lazy about http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9176 , I've not done any work on it yet but I wanted a ticket open before we nail the lid on 0.24 and it slips into the release |
| [20:02:58] | Beirdo: | understood |
| [20:03:20] | Beirdo: | OK, #9171 no longer is getting thread starvation, but it's still having socket fun. |
| [20:05:15] | Beirdo: | who wants it? ;) |
| [20:05:33] | Beirdo: | it's seeming to be in the mythsocket stuff perhaps? |
| [20:05:47] | Beirdo: | fix one issue, and another one becomes uncovered. |
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| [22:20:39] | cdev___: | Beirdo: regarding the fix for threadpool size... My old design is flawed in that it uses a thread per connection, even if no activity is happending. |
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| [22:21:26] | cdev___: | I'm planning on redesigning it to use the threadpool for .25 to be more scaleable. |
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| [22:24:05] | Beirdo: | cdev___: cool. It needs tweaking, and you are, of course, welcome to it :) |
| [22:24:51] | Beirdo: | it's becoming more of an issue over time, so 0.25 fixing would be good timing :) |
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| [22:40:28] | iamlindoro: | danielk22, Can you look at the log in http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9177 ? There's a ringbuffer issue in there that might be related to the optimizations added this release? I closed it as a dupe of another generic "error opening jump program file" issue, but that may have been in error if it's an RB issue |
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| [23:07:49] | iamlindoro: | agh, need to close some tickets, we're about to get back over 300 |
| [23:08:01] | Beirdo: | such is life :) |
| [23:08:15] | iamlindoro: | or we could just close some tickets |
| [23:08:33] | iamlindoro: | Which, if we could convince people to look at theirs, many could be |
| [23:09:13] | Beirdo: | yeah, I have a suspicion that skamathi's DVD bugs may be somewhat invalidated by markk's recent overhaul |
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| [23:55:57] | xris: | Beirdo: that's one reason I wonder about a trac migration to jira.. maybe don't import, just start from scratch |
| [23:56:06] | xris: | let people manually migrate specific issues |
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