| Thursday, July 22nd, 2010, 00:08 UTC | ||
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| [19:21:42] | sphery: | stuartm: So, would you support my removing "Fine tune font size (%)" --it should be in the hands of themers |
| [19:22:51] | sphery: | and, while at it, I'd love to just set reasonable defaults for Big/Medium/Small Font (QtFont*) settings so users don't complain that changing font sizes doesn't work (since they're only really used in settings, now) |
| [19:23:05] | stuartm: | sphery: that one affects mythui? If so yes, since in many cases it;s really not possible to change the font size without causing unintended clipping etc |
| [19:23:06] | sphery: | that is set reasonable defaults and remove the settings |
| [19:23:46] | stuartm: | I mean that's true of the older qt/libmyth stuff but there I just don't care ;) |
| [19:25:14] | sphery: | actually, yeah, QtFonTweak ("Fine tune font size (%)") does affect mythui because it's applied to the pointSize directly. I cranked it up and totally broke Arclight just to see if it did affect it. |
| [19:25:26] | iamlindoro: | At some point we will need to hve the settings conversion conversation |
| [19:25:40] | iamlindoro: | And I think the longer we go, the less likely we are to ever do anything about it |
| [19:26:29] | iamlindoro: | Which has nothing to do with the conversation at hand, which, for the record, I support :) |
| [19:26:46] | iamlindoro: | Try to contain your shock, me supporting settings removals and all |
| [19:26:50] | sphery: | Well, I'm partly to blame for stalling on it (I broke the XML danielk had for it when I modified a bunch of settings and strings). I do plan to script re-creation of the XML, and would like to implement some modifications to his initial patch. |
| [19:27:05] | iamlindoro: | That's not the same thing, though |
| [19:27:19] | iamlindoro: | his XML is for the mythtv-setup conversion, not the ultimate settings screens conversion |
| [19:27:33] | sphery: | heh, regarding settings removal, I figured that it would be much easier to discuss in here with only the few regulars we have (who all support themability). |
| [19:27:46] | iamlindoro: | know thy audience |
| [19:28:00] | sphery: | I'd be happy to mention that I'm planning to do it in #mythtv (or the developers list) if you all feel it's important to do so. |
| [19:28:20] | sphery: | But, since I haven't seen BJM in years, I doubt he'll complain when I remove his code. :) |
| [19:28:25] | iamlindoro: | I would rather a no-brainer just get done |
| [19:28:32] | sphery: | sounds good to me |
| [19:28:37] | iamlindoro: | rather than get stalled in explaining, complaining, and other bitching |
| [19:29:08] | stuartm: | the settings conversion conversation is going to be quite broad, I suggest it's had on -developers and that we start by laying out some of the possibilities |
| [19:29:11] | sphery: | yeah, besides, they always say, "Commit first and revert later, if forced to." |
| [19:29:21] | iamlindoro: | agree |
| [19:29:28] | iamlindoro: | (with both of you) |
| [19:33:28] | stuartm: | which are a) an automatic layout 'engine' for mythui -> difficult and a lot of work b) fully themable settings with the assumption that most themers will just use the defaults -> easier to implement, a little harder to maintain and requires theme versioning c) variation on b where many settings are moved out from the 'setup' pages and into menus/submenus on the screens they affect -> same difficulty/problems as b but gives |
| [19:33:29] | stuartm: | many settings much-needed context and makes it much easier to change settings and see their effect immediately |
| [19:34:43] | stuartm: | I'm sure that a few more ideas and refinements will come up once it's being discussed |
| [19:35:14] | iamlindoro: | I have mostly made the MythVideo settings accessible within MV now-- still have a bit of cleanup to do with that, though |
| [19:35:30] | iamlindoro: | as some of the member variables don't get refreshed when coming back from those screens |
| [19:35:34] | iamlindoro: | nobody has noticed yet ;) |
| [19:36:05] | iamlindoro: | gah, need to move the metadata script screen into core before .24 too |
| [19:40:06] | stuartm: | sphery: er, fwiw I'm just about to commit a patch removing the two adjacent settings (transparency/shading), it will probably conflict |
| [19:41:40] | iamlindoro: | race! |
| [19:41:45] | sphery: | on the bright side, I haven't started my patch, yet |
| [19:41:57] | sphery: | was just about to commit the removal of smart channel change |
| [19:42:13] | sphery: | so I'll svn up after you commit |
| [19:42:26] | sphery: | (remembering to quilt pop -a beforehand ;) |
| [19:43:28] | sphery: | stuartm: oh, and if you want, you can ignore re-arranging the pages with those settings if it's the same page(s) as mine and I'll get them with mine |
| [19:44:37] | stuartm: | k |
| [19:45:08] | sphery: | would the smart channel change patch conflict with yours? |
| [19:45:29] | stuartm: | no |
| [19:46:06] | sphery: | cool, then I'll get that one in |
| [19:46:29] | stuartm: | I'm hitting the easy stuff, the shading setting is entirely unused and the transparency one is also simple, I could remove the font sizing at the same time since it's on the same page and UI related? |
| [19:49:04] | sphery: | I was going to remove all 4 of the font ones and just lump them under "Qt UI font settings" so people are less likely to complain |
| [19:49:04] | stuartm: | on second thoughts, should BJM come back from obscurity I don't want to be the one he directs his ire at ;) |
| [19:49:16] | sphery: | heh, ok, I'll take the risk, then :) |
| [19:49:42] | iamlindoro: | This is what organized project courtesy rules are for ;) |
| [19:56:14] | ** stuartm scores six settings in 6 hours ** | |
| [19:57:18] | sphery: | I can't figure out how ARBSEEK works... Just pops up an OSD with a ?, then I type a number and it says SEEK:3, then SELECT and ARBSEEK and (nothing I tried) actually do anything |
| [19:57:47] | sphery: | wonder if I broke it when I was reworking the seeking to get rid of the sticky keys settings |
| [19:58:50] | stuartm: | yeah, seems broken |
| [19:59:11] | sphery: | I'll assume I broke it and try to fix it later |
| [20:00:12] | sphery: | if it's what I thought, it should be easy--once I figure out what it's supposed to do... I'd assume it just does a seek to absolute position. (i.e. not relative to current or relative to end) |
| [20:02:29] | stuartm: | I'm deliberately referencing the RFC to deflect any complaints e.g we did engage with the community on these and they've had months to express an opinion |
| [20:05:08] | stuartm: | sphery: original commit might shed some light, if you've not already looked it up |
| [20:08:44] | stuartm: | think it's this one – http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/2954 |
| [20:08:49] | stuartm: | might be worth asking gigem about it |
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| [20:11:09] | sphery: | will do... I think the keybinding must have been added later, though (as that's all the "just type a number then the appropriate seek type key" stuff) |
| [20:11:12] | stuartm: | looking for the commit which added the binding |
| [20:11:25] | sphery: | yeah, it may be obsoleted by that commit, though |
| [20:12:12] | stuartm: | it's not straight-foward since various refactors confuse the issue |
| [20:13:15] | stuartm: | there we go – http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/7689 |
| [20:14:26] | sphery: | heh, added long after the initial |
| [20:14:29] | stuartm: | ok, from that it seems the sequence is "ARBSEEK {number} RIGHT/LEFT", the ARBSEEK button simply removes any ambiguity |
| [20:15:01] | sphery: | ah, so its whole purpose was due to the smart channel change setting's breaking numeric input |
| [20:15:16] | stuartm: | yup |
| [20:15:42] | sphery: | seems it goes relative to current and doesn't allow absolute or from-end seeks |
| [20:16:09] | sphery: | and, while I wouldn't mind requiring it in Live TV mode (since I don't use Live TV), I would not want to force it during recording playback |
| [20:16:15] | sphery: | so it's back to the UI consistency thing... |
| [20:16:34] | sphery: | wither way, it's not hard to re-enable the behavior once we come up with a good UI |
| [20:18:04] | stuartm: | require what, the use of ARBSEEK? |
| [20:18:20] | sphery: | yeah, require hitting * before doing numbers for all arbitrary seeking |
| [20:19:26] | sphery: | So, though it would be very unpopular (especially with http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8513 ), I'd love to remove "Use arrow key accelerators" and either make all the popups use it or none use it. |
| [20:19:42] | sphery: | my preference would be none for UI consistency |
| [20:24:50] | stuartm: | 8513 is just broken, ignores alternate layouts entirely |
| [20:26:20] | stuartm: | and the whole premise of arrow key accelerators, especially given their haphazard implementation is flawed and almost impossible to get right given the endless possibilities in theme layouts |
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| [20:27:15] | stuartm: | if it were done at all, then it would have to be theme controlled, but I'd rather not go there |
| [20:29:09] | stuartm: | and I don't think users would really want behaviour to vary like that from theme to theme either, it's not asking too much for users to have a menu binding on their remotes, in many places it's a requirement |
| [20:35:16] | sphery: | agreed |
| [20:35:28] | sphery: | so what's up with UseVirtualKeyboard ? |
| [20:35:31] | sphery: | is that staying? |
| [20:35:48] | sphery: | It's the only thing left on the screen after removing Qt font settings |
| [20:36:43] | stuartm: | err, can't think of a reason for it to stay, that should be the default |
| [20:37:16] | stuartm: | I don't know what the rationale for having the setting was |
| [20:38:30] | sphery: | cool, can't find a good place for it |
| [20:41:18] | stuartm: | sphery: when I say I don't know why we have that setting, I mean to say that there may be a reason for it but I can't think what it might be |
| [20:44:52] | stuartm: | it might have been a conflict between Space/SELECT that was causing people some grief, the mythui keyboard textedit always treats it as Space, so you need to bind SELECT to return or something else which won't conflict |
| [20:49:54] | stuartm: | that's going to cause another headache with a multiline text edit, and I've just remembered that I'm supposed to be writing that for 0.24 (promised it for 0.23) |
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