:: #mythtv-theming

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Current users (17):

anykey_, brfransen, Captain_Murdoch, gregl, grokky, jpabq, jpabq-, justinh, mag0o, mrand, MythLogBot, paul-h_, rooaus, simonckenyon, sphery, stuartm, wagnerrp
Thursday, July 22nd, 2010, 00:08 UTC
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[19:21:42] sphery: stuartm: So, would you support my removing "Fine tune font size (%)" --it should be in the hands of themers
[19:22:51] sphery: and, while at it, I'd love to just set reasonable defaults for Big/Medium/Small Font (QtFont*) settings so users don't complain that changing font sizes doesn't work (since they're only really used in settings, now)
[19:23:05] stuartm: sphery: that one affects mythui? If so yes, since in many cases it;s really not possible to change the font size without causing unintended clipping etc
[19:23:06] sphery: that is set reasonable defaults and remove the settings
[19:23:46] stuartm: I mean that's true of the older qt/libmyth stuff but there I just don't care ;)
[19:25:14] sphery: actually, yeah, QtFonTweak ("Fine tune font size (%)") does affect mythui because it's applied to the pointSize directly. I cranked it up and totally broke Arclight just to see if it did affect it.
[19:25:26] iamlindoro: At some point we will need to hve the settings conversion conversation
[19:25:40] iamlindoro: And I think the longer we go, the less likely we are to ever do anything about it
[19:26:29] iamlindoro: Which has nothing to do with the conversation at hand, which, for the record, I support :)
[19:26:46] iamlindoro: Try to contain your shock, me supporting settings removals and all
[19:26:50] sphery: Well, I'm partly to blame for stalling on it (I broke the XML danielk had for it when I modified a bunch of settings and strings). I do plan to script re-creation of the XML, and would like to implement some modifications to his initial patch.
[19:27:05] iamlindoro: That's not the same thing, though
[19:27:19] iamlindoro: his XML is for the mythtv-setup conversion, not the ultimate settings screens conversion
[19:27:33] sphery: heh, regarding settings removal, I figured that it would be much easier to discuss in here with only the few regulars we have (who all support themability).
[19:27:46] iamlindoro: know thy audience
[19:28:00] sphery: I'd be happy to mention that I'm planning to do it in #mythtv (or the developers list) if you all feel it's important to do so.
[19:28:20] sphery: But, since I haven't seen BJM in years, I doubt he'll complain when I remove his code.  :)
[19:28:25] iamlindoro: I would rather a no-brainer just get done
[19:28:32] sphery: sounds good to me
[19:28:37] iamlindoro: rather than get stalled in explaining, complaining, and other bitching
[19:29:08] stuartm: the settings conversion conversation is going to be quite broad, I suggest it's had on -developers and that we start by laying out some of the possibilities
[19:29:11] sphery: yeah, besides, they always say, "Commit first and revert later, if forced to."
[19:29:21] iamlindoro: agree
[19:29:28] iamlindoro: (with both of you)
[19:33:28] stuartm: which are a) an automatic layout 'engine' for mythui -> difficult and a lot of work b) fully themable settings with the assumption that most themers will just use the defaults -> easier to implement, a little harder to maintain and requires theme versioning c) variation on b where many settings are moved out from the 'setup' pages and into menus/submenus on the screens they affect -> same difficulty/problems as b but gives
[19:33:29] stuartm: many settings much-needed context and makes it much easier to change settings and see their effect immediately
[19:34:43] stuartm: I'm sure that a few more ideas and refinements will come up once it's being discussed
[19:35:14] iamlindoro: I have mostly made the MythVideo settings accessible within MV now-- still have a bit of cleanup to do with that, though
[19:35:30] iamlindoro: as some of the member variables don't get refreshed when coming back from those screens
[19:35:34] iamlindoro: nobody has noticed yet ;)
[19:36:05] iamlindoro: gah, need to move the metadata script screen into core before .24 too
[19:40:06] stuartm: sphery: er, fwiw I'm just about to commit a patch removing the two adjacent settings (transparency/shading), it will probably conflict
[19:41:40] iamlindoro: race!
[19:41:45] sphery: on the bright side, I haven't started my patch, yet
[19:41:57] sphery: was just about to commit the removal of smart channel change
[19:42:13] sphery: so I'll svn up after you commit
[19:42:26] sphery: (remembering to quilt pop -a beforehand ;)
[19:43:28] sphery: stuartm: oh, and if you want, you can ignore re-arranging the pages with those settings if it's the same page(s) as mine and I'll get them with mine
[19:44:37] stuartm: k
[19:45:08] sphery: would the smart channel change patch conflict with yours?
[19:45:29] stuartm: no
[19:46:06] sphery: cool, then I'll get that one in
[19:46:29] stuartm: I'm hitting the easy stuff, the shading setting is entirely unused and the transparency one is also simple, I could remove the font sizing at the same time since it's on the same page and UI related?
[19:49:04] sphery: I was going to remove all 4 of the font ones and just lump them under "Qt UI font settings" so people are less likely to complain
[19:49:04] stuartm: on second thoughts, should BJM come back from obscurity I don't want to be the one he directs his ire at ;)
[19:49:16] sphery: heh, ok, I'll take the risk, then :)
[19:49:42] iamlindoro: This is what organized project courtesy rules are for ;)
[19:56:14] ** stuartm scores six settings in 6 hours **
[19:57:18] sphery: I can't figure out how ARBSEEK works... Just pops up an OSD with a ?, then I type a number and it says SEEK:3, then SELECT and ARBSEEK and (nothing I tried) actually do anything
[19:57:47] sphery: wonder if I broke it when I was reworking the seeking to get rid of the sticky keys settings
[19:58:50] stuartm: yeah, seems broken
[19:59:11] sphery: I'll assume I broke it and try to fix it later
[20:00:12] sphery: if it's what I thought, it should be easy--once I figure out what it's supposed to do... I'd assume it just does a seek to absolute position. (i.e. not relative to current or relative to end)
[20:02:29] stuartm: I'm deliberately referencing the RFC to deflect any complaints e.g we did engage with the community on these and they've had months to express an opinion
[20:05:08] stuartm: sphery: original commit might shed some light, if you've not already looked it up
[20:08:44] stuartm: think it's this one –
[20:08:49] stuartm: might be worth asking gigem about it
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[20:11:09] sphery: will do... I think the keybinding must have been added later, though (as that's all the "just type a number then the appropriate seek type key" stuff)
[20:11:12] stuartm: looking for the commit which added the binding
[20:11:25] sphery: yeah, it may be obsoleted by that commit, though
[20:12:12] stuartm: it's not straight-foward since various refactors confuse the issue
[20:13:15] stuartm: there we go –
[20:14:26] sphery: heh, added long after the initial
[20:14:29] stuartm: ok, from that it seems the sequence is "ARBSEEK {number} RIGHT/LEFT", the ARBSEEK button simply removes any ambiguity
[20:15:01] sphery: ah, so its whole purpose was due to the smart channel change setting's breaking numeric input
[20:15:16] stuartm: yup
[20:15:42] sphery: seems it goes relative to current and doesn't allow absolute or from-end seeks
[20:16:09] sphery: and, while I wouldn't mind requiring it in Live TV mode (since I don't use Live TV), I would not want to force it during recording playback
[20:16:15] sphery: so it's back to the UI consistency thing...
[20:16:34] sphery: wither way, it's not hard to re-enable the behavior once we come up with a good UI
[20:18:04] stuartm: require what, the use of ARBSEEK?
[20:18:20] sphery: yeah, require hitting * before doing numbers for all arbitrary seeking
[20:19:26] sphery: So, though it would be very unpopular (especially with ), I'd love to remove "Use arrow key accelerators" and either make all the popups use it or none use it.
[20:19:42] sphery: my preference would be none for UI consistency
[20:24:50] stuartm: 8513 is just broken, ignores alternate layouts entirely
[20:26:20] stuartm: and the whole premise of arrow key accelerators, especially given their haphazard implementation is flawed and almost impossible to get right given the endless possibilities in theme layouts
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[20:27:15] stuartm: if it were done at all, then it would have to be theme controlled, but I'd rather not go there
[20:29:09] stuartm: and I don't think users would really want behaviour to vary like that from theme to theme either, it's not asking too much for users to have a menu binding on their remotes, in many places it's a requirement
[20:35:16] sphery: agreed
[20:35:28] sphery: so what's up with UseVirtualKeyboard ?
[20:35:31] sphery: is that staying?
[20:35:48] sphery: It's the only thing left on the screen after removing Qt font settings
[20:36:43] stuartm: err, can't think of a reason for it to stay, that should be the default
[20:37:16] stuartm: I don't know what the rationale for having the setting was
[20:38:30] sphery: cool, can't find a good place for it
[20:41:18] stuartm: sphery: when I say I don't know why we have that setting, I mean to say that there may be a reason for it but I can't think what it might be
[20:44:52] stuartm: it might have been a conflict between Space/SELECT that was causing people some grief, the mythui keyboard textedit always treats it as Space, so you need to bind SELECT to return or something else which won't conflict
[20:49:54] stuartm: that's going to cause another headache with a multiline text edit, and I've just remembered that I'm supposed to be writing that for 0.24 (promised it for 0.23)
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