:: #mythtv-theming

Daily chat history

Current users (25):

abqjp, anykey_, Beirdo, Captain_Murdoch, danielk221, gbee, gbutters, gregl, grokky, Guest24547, iamlindoro, jams, janneg, jpabq, jpabq-, justinh, laga, mag0o, mrand, MythLogBot, paul-h, rooaus, shadash, sphery, wagnerrp
Wednesday, February 3rd, 2010, 01:09 UTC
[01:09:23] Beirdo: there we go
[01:09:51] Beirdo: I'm so glad I made a console for that bot :)
[01:10:14] iamlindoro: heh, nice-- any URL for a log?
[01:10:24] Beirdo: !notify
[01:10:29] Beirdo: err
[01:10:31] Beirdo: !notice
[01:10:31] MythLogBot: This channel (#mythtv-theming) is logged —
[01:10:37] iamlindoro:
[01:10:39] iamlindoro: looks like
[01:10:41] Beirdo: !help
[01:10:46] Beirdo: oh come on.
[01:10:55] abqjp (abqjp! has joined #mythtv-theming
[01:11:05] Beirdo: I bet it didn't re-identify with freenode
[01:11:11] Mode for #mythtv-theming by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro
[01:11:42] ** Beirdo pokes MythLogBot with a stick **
[01:11:53] iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro changes topic to Welcome to the official MythTV theming channel .:. Use .:. MythUI Documentation available at .:. MythUI Demo Theme available at .:. Logs at
[01:12:01] Mode for #mythtv-theming by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro
[01:12:09] Beirdo: excellent
[01:12:38] iamlindoro: nice
[01:13:01] Beirdo: I guess I can live with it being silent anyways :)
[01:13:02] Beirdo: hehe
[01:14:42] Beirdo: I'll look into it later, it may just need to identify slightly differently now with the new servers
[01:14:54] iamlindoro: no worries, appreciate the logging regardless
[01:14:54] Beirdo: but it's logging just fine
[01:25:30] anykey_ (anykey_! has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[01:36:37] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[01:36:54] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[01:36:54] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has quit (Changing host)
[01:36:54] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[01:38:18] anykey_ (anykey_! has joined #mythtv-theming
[02:11:54] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Quit: - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[02:12:10] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[02:12:10] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[02:12:10] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has quit (Changing host)
[02:45:59] gregl (gregl! has joined #mythtv-theming
[02:49:14] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Quit: - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[02:49:33] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[02:49:33] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has quit (Changing host)
[02:49:33] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[03:02:31] iamlindoro: danielk22, The new font checking stuff spews a ton of errors on fonts that inherit from other fonts
[03:23:42] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Quit: - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[03:24:18] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[03:24:18] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has quit (Changing host)
[03:24:18] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[03:26:48] mag0o: hehe, google analytics for my Childish site, 5–10 hits over the course of its life, past couple of days >300 hits
[03:27:08] iamlindoro: MythTV users click links, news at 11
[03:27:25] danielk22: iamlindoro: can you post an example output?
[03:27:43] iamlindoro: Sure, and I shoudl correct myself that they're warnings
[03:28:46] mag0o: ok, of course we all knew it would get clicks...i just like stats :)
[03:28:51] iamlindoro:
[03:30:54] danielk22: iamlindoro: That's a pre-existing one, just moved it from VB_FILE to VB_GENERAL. But I think there is an underlying problem.. when that warning is printed we exit without defining the font. This is what made me think we were possibly reading the theme base.xml twice. But I haven't looked into it yet.
[03:31:30] iamlindoro: particularly odd is the first warning, which appears to be saying I have a font using dejavu sans, but I don't reference it anywhere, and that's before the default base.xml is rea
[03:31:32] iamlindoro: read
[03:32:41] iamlindoro: danielk22, doesn't appear to be breaking anything themewise, just definitely made me scratch my head
[03:33:04] danielk22: DejaVu Sans is the default which QFont uses on Ubuntu when it can't find a specified font. And I think the default[-wide]/base.xml might be using it.. maybe we're reading the default base.xml after the theme base.xml ?
[03:34:00] iamlindoro: according to the log that seems to be the case, which is I believe what we want
[03:34:03] danielk22: Yeah, it looks that way.. from your log, see line 1 & 16
[03:42:21] Captain_Murdoch: iamlindoro, in the theme, that's not the spacing changing, it's the images in the button not being scaled up when I change the size.
[03:42:41] Captain_Murdoch: now I need to figure out why.
[03:43:00] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch, I'm afraid I don't understand
[03:43:17] iamlindoro: my buttons are pretty much all shapes, only one two-pixel high image in any of them
[03:43:29] iamlindoro: and the blank spacing is massive now
[03:45:00] ** iamlindoro blames himself, just wants to understand **
[03:46:59] danielk22: Captain_Murdoch: won't 23450 make it harder to center text vertically in buttons, you need to get the button area exactly right so that none of the buttons get resized..
[03:47:09] Captain_Murdoch: on my 1000x562 screen, that means your 338-pixel tall buttonlist needs to scale to 169 pixels. the original code calculates that 6 buttons of 26-pixels each can fit in that space filling up 156 pixels. my code sees a diff of 13 pixels and since there are 6 buttons, it makes them all 28 pixels high, still with 0-pixel spacing. the issue is that when I resize the button to 28 pixels, I don't think it's rescaling the underl
[03:47:09] Captain_Murdoch: ying parts like your shape.
[03:48:24] Captain_Murdoch: danielk22, that doesn't work at all resolutions though. that's why I tried to give an example in the commit log. a theme designed for a 1080 HD set won't scale right on a 720 set.
[03:48:29] danielk22: I guess it's the only way to allow resizing though without getting blurry lines.
[03:49:42] Captain_Murdoch: since a button can't be x.y pixels tall, we have to either have them all x pixels or some x+1 pixels tall, otherwise we have a gap when scaling the buttonlist at various resolutions.
[03:51:48] danielk22: Yeah, I ran into some problems when I looked at the work I did for MythCenter at 640x480 when I looked at it on a 710x460ish NTSC screen.. It's hard to get it too look good with the current absolute positioning model.. I wish we had access to QLayout in MythUI :|
[03:52:23] Captain_Murdoch: in iamlindoro's theme, his area is 338 – .03% for the scroll arrows, so 327.86 pixels for buttonarea. at 50 pixels each as defined in the theme, that's 6 buttons with a leftover area of 27 pixels. note, that .03% is only 11 pixels tall, whic his not enough for the scroll arrows.
[03:53:52] Captain_Murdoch: iamlindoro, does that 97% make sense to you? your scroll indicators are ~20 pixels tall, but your buttonarea is 97% of 338 (ie, 327), leaving only 11 pixels for the scroll indicators unless they overlap the buttonarea.
[03:55:45] Captain_Murdoch: in fact, the scroll indicator is at pixel 306, which is why it looks good to you, because the buttons go from 0–300,so your scroll indicator isn't overwritten by a button. but when the buttons are spread out to fill the buttonarea you actually defined, it makes them draw to fill up the 327 pixels defined (97% of 338), so they overdraw your scroll indicators.
[03:55:58] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch, There could be an error in the theme, I am more than willing to deal with that if so, but I still don't understand why it just turned to crap and the spacing values aren't being respected
[03:56:10] Captain_Murdoch: they are being respected.
[03:56:19] iamlindoro: if I set <spacing> to 1, there should never be more than one pixel between buttons
[03:56:32] Captain_Murdoch: that's not spacing, that's your shape not being drawn to the full size
[03:56:47] Captain_Murdoch: that's a bug
[03:56:51] Captain_Murdoch: that I need to fix
[03:57:05] Captain_Murdoch: spacing is 0 and shows up as 0 in my debug logs.
[03:57:16] natanojl (natanojl! has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[03:57:53] danielk22: Hmm, I think the competition themes should all be judged using a cut of MythTV from Sunday night :)
[03:58:14] Captain_Murdoch: buttons at my 1000x562 res are showing up as 28 pixels (scaled up from the original calculated value of 26). but when I tell them to draw at 28, the underlying <shape>s are being drawn at 26 pixels still, so it looks like there is a 2-pixel spacing.
[03:58:55] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch, well, I'm a little frustrated at it going from good to crap, so once that is out of the way, I'll re-space the buttonlists :)
[03:59:13] Captain_Murdoch: iamlindoro, does my 97% example make sense to you?
[03:59:19] iamlindoro: yes
[03:59:50] Captain_Murdoch: I've seen 97% in a lot of places, not just your theme. 97% is way too high for buttonarea normally.
[03:59:55] Captain_Murdoch: with scroll indicators.
[04:00:57] iamlindoro: Just let me know when we're not screwing around with spacing any more so I only have to do this once ;)
[04:01:10] danielk22: Captain_Murdoch: As I understand it things that look like crap now, would have looked like crap at some other resolution anyway.. I recall having issues like that with default and default-wide when Watch Recordings was first ported to MythUI; it looked great for gbee, but I was using different resolutions...
[04:01:10] Captain_Murdoch: I'm fine with reverting this if it makes sense, It's probably going to expose things like that in a lot of places. we've lived without it for all of 0.22, so I could wait until after the release.
[04:01:24] iamlindoro: I did it four times while writing the them as spacing was mucked with, so you'll understand why I'm not eager to do it too many more :)
[04:01:32] natanojl (natanojl! has joined #mythtv-theming
[04:01:54] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch, Meh, I think only Arclight relies on pixel-perfect spacing
[04:02:15] iamlindoro: so might as well fix it (am trusting you that you think this is something necessary) and I'll take a spin through the other themes before release
[04:02:26] Captain_Murdoch: it isn't the pixel perfect, if the shape was drawn at hte right size, it would look right, it would just overlay the scroll arrows because the buttonarea is too large.
[04:02:41] iamlindoro: If it's only that when the dust settles, that will be trivial to fix
[04:02:57] iamlindoro: I just don't want to fix it as it stands without knowing for sure that it's the last time I have to do it
[04:03:41] iamlindoro: also note the inconsistent button spacing that I mentioned
[04:04:11] iamlindoro: on all my normal right hand side buttonlists, the first and second button items have two pixels of spacing, while all the others have the (correct) single pixel spacing
[04:04:15] Captain_Murdoch: I"m not even sure we need qrectf later, this should solve the buttonlist spacing and we'd have to deal with the same exact situation if we were using floats everywehre, we'd still end up with some buttons being X pixels tall/wide and some needing to be X+1 to fill in the desired buttonarea.
[04:04:21] iamlindoro: (at 1360x768)
[04:04:45] Captain_Murdoch: iamlindoro, it's not spacing!!!, it's the shape and things inside the button not being drawn at the full size
[04:05:18] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch, How could that be the case and have them be inconsistent??
[04:05:20] Captain_Murdoch: I am honoring the right spacing, but the top buttons should be 1 pixel taller and they aren't being drawn at that size, so it LOOKS like 2 pixel spacing.
[04:05:31] iamlindoro: ok, ok
[04:05:33] iamlindoro: sheesh
[04:05:38] Captain_Murdoch: :)
[04:06:06] iamlindoro: nobody going to open a bug that the shapes aren't being sized properly, they're going to open bugs that Arclight now looks like shit
[04:06:14] Captain_Murdoch: not getting upset, just trying to steer away from spacing. my debug logs show exactly what is going on. buttons are laid out exactly as intended with proper spacing, but the adjusted sizes are not being honored.
[04:06:33] iamlindoro: OK, I believe you, and believe we'll get where we're supposed to be
[04:07:05] iamlindoro: Just let me know when we do ;)
[04:07:22] Captain_Murdoch: gimme a little while so I can track down the children not drawing at the righ size issue and I'll be back. I"m not getting anything done while chatting. :(
[04:07:42] iamlindoro: Sorry to be a bother
[04:11:42] Captain_Murdoch: no problem, I can feel your pain but at a much smaller scale. :( I don't know if you saw the commit before this one but I had to go in and fix the default and wide settings-ui.xml files because I had the buttonareas sized wrong as well and didn't leave room for the scroll arrows.
[04:12:21] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch, if the shapes aren't being scaled right, shouldn't the "spacer" image I have at the bottom of my buttons be placed in the right spot?
[04:13:00] iamlindoro: I have it occupy the bottom two pixels of a given button, which means it sort of overlaps/hugs the bottom of the shape... if it's jsut the shapes that aren't being scaled, shouldn't the image be in the right spot?
[04:13:11] iamlindoro: (it's still hugging the bottom of the shape)
[04:13:52] Captain_Murdoch: it's possible it's more inside the buttons. I'm calling button->SetSize() with the new size, but I don't think that's going to scale back up things inside the button (ie, both sizes and positions)
[04:14:06] iamlindoro: hmm, ok
[04:14:47] iamlindoro: well anyway, if it's just a matter of a little repositioning and fixing arrows, it won't be the end of the world-- but if it can happen to me, it can definitely happen to the competition themers so we may need to be on the lookout for this when we judge
[04:16:42] Captain_Murdoch: I'll see what I can come up with, but could revert until after the judging. I can see how the previous code woudl make something look good when it might not be sized right.
[04:17:01] Captain_Murdoch: or could revert until after the branch.
[04:17:25] iamlindoro: Nah, let's just fix it and I will make any fixes needed to the competition themes if we distribute them
[04:19:21] Captain_Murdoch: fixing the scaling issue is going to be more invasive I think. I may need to do the calculations as we parse the xml since I may need to create 2 buttons, one of each size, then clone those so we have the scaling right. I don't think MythUI has the capability to resize an item and all it's children.
[06:30:58] grokky (grokky! has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[06:44:28] iamlindoro: gbee, (and other devs): The TransBlue theme submitted for the contest is missing about half the screens required by the rules. Wondering whether to DQ off the bat or just penalize heavily for failing to meet the requirements
[06:45:06] iamlindoro: But since I didn't allow the blue-abstract-wide theme on a rule violation, I would feel somewhat uncomfortable allowing another with a similar violation
[06:46:23] iamlindoro: Missing screens are: MythNews, MythWeather, parts of MythVideo, browser settings, event editor, parts of MythMusic, a few settings screens for the frontend in general... and those are just those I have found so far
[06:53:08] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[07:00:30] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[07:14:52] iamlindoro: mag0o, OSD menu editor, edit keys screen, screen setup wizard, channel rec priorities, custom priority screen...missing :(
[07:15:24] iamlindoro: channel editor, channel icon picker...
[09:22:44] gbee: iamlindoro: penalise rather than disqualify
[09:29:59] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[09:31:00] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[09:31:00] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[09:31:00] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has quit (Changing host)
[09:35:05] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[09:35:22] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[10:18:07] grokky (grokky! has joined #mythtv-theming
[10:30:59] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[10:32:20] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has quit (Changing host)
[10:32:20] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[10:37:32] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[10:37:44] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[10:37:45] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has quit (Changing host)
[10:37:45] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[10:41:32] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Client Quit)
[10:42:04] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[10:42:04] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has quit (Changing host)
[10:42:04] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[10:54:43] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:55:16] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[10:55:17] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@ has quit (Changing host)
[10:55:17] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[11:52:43] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[11:55:27] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[12:55:38] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:56:32] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[13:32:45] iamlindoro: "Hi, i hope ive got the right email. Just downloaded arclight today (im using mythbuntu Karmic with the .23 autobuilds option), and it appears the background images (the tendrils) are heavily pixelated (ive attached them). Would it be possible for you to email me the proper images please? Thanks. I do understand that this is still WIP for you."
[13:32:48] iamlindoro: sigh...
[13:35:34] justinh: pity you can't email Napalm
[13:36:37] iamlindoro: what in god's name is so hard to understand about the Arclight backgrounds?
[13:36:51] iamlindoro: It's not like I named them wrong_background.png
[13:36:57] iamlindoro: repalce_me.png
[13:37:00] iamlindoro: er replace
[13:37:16] justinh: maybe you just turned the compression level up too high
[13:37:18] ** justinh runs away **
[13:37:29] iamlindoro: must be
[13:37:56] iamlindoro: OMFG
[13:37:57] iamlindoro: OMFG
[13:37:58] iamlindoro: OMFG
[13:38:03] iamlindoro: my reply
[13:38:11] iamlindoro: "These are the proper images..."
[13:38:17] iamlindoro: his reply to my reply:
[13:38:22] justinh: I quite like the pixellated-ness of the background on screenshots I've seen :)
[13:38:25] iamlindoro: "really?! dont you think it looks a little umm.. jarring seeing really blocky images mixed in with high-res fanart etc., i mean i know i can change them but still.."
[13:39:03] ** iamlindoro sets nuke on * **
[13:39:06] justinh: none of this is making me regret putting my toys away, I hasten to add
[13:47:29] ** iamlindoro replaces all Arclight backgrounds with **
[13:53:22] gbee: heh, there was a kid about the same age as that in the doctor's waiting room the other day, chav family, his mum suddenly decides it's a good time to take a picture on her mobile and the kid poses with the middle finger raised, the mum just laughs
[13:55:42] ** iamlindoro is proud to have consumed enough British TV to know what a chav is **
[13:56:09] gbee: I'd have been cuffed round the ear if I'd ever given my mum the finger at the age of 3 (well 3 decades later I'd still not risk it ;) )
[13:56:51] gbee: white trash I think you'd call it in the US
[13:57:37] iamlindoro: heh, yeah, that seems an apt parallel
[13:57:38] grokky (grokky! has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:01:01] danielk22 (danielk22!~danielk@ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:01:14] gbee: one key difference is that it's not really race specific like 'white trash'
[14:02:29] danielk221 (danielk221!~danielk@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[14:25:12] mag0o: crap...didn't realize i missed those screens...
[14:28:37] mag0o: are those screens all in mythtv-setup?
[14:30:02] iamlindoro: only the last two
[14:30:07] iamlindoro: all the others are in the FE
[14:30:56] iamlindoro: Utilities/Setup->Edit Keys, etc.
[14:35:50] mag0o: dangit
[14:36:07] mag0o: that's what i get for procrastinating/working on other stuff
[14:36:31] iamlindoro: probably worth going through the docs for each -ui files and seeing which you've finished in the long run
[14:42:27] mag0o: yeah, i'm still working on it even though the comp has passed
[14:42:48] mag0o: now that i think about it, im not sure if i themed all of the Myth* windows in base.xml
[15:42:37] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has quit (Quit: - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[15:52:47] DjMadness_ (DjMadness_! has joined #mythtv-theming
[16:09:28] abqjp (abqjp! has quit (Quit: abqjp)
[16:31:40] DjMadness_ (DjMadness_! has left #mythtv-theming ()
[16:31:43] abqjp (abqjp! has joined #mythtv-theming
[16:32:39] DjMadness (DjMadness!~quassel@pdpc/supporter/student/DjMadness) has joined #mythtv-theming
[16:49:09] iamlindoro: mag0o: We are going to extend the competition by a week-- think you can polish off the remaining screens in that time?
[16:53:17] abqjp: iamlindoro: a week from today, or from the 1st?
[16:53:29] iamlindoro: I am thinking the 10th
[16:54:19] abqjp: Good. If it was from the 1st, I don't think that would be enough, but from today gives them a chance.
[16:54:38] gbee: yeah
[16:55:29] abqjp: *might* even want to make the deadline the 12th.
[16:55:47] abqjp: How incomplete are the submissions?
[16:56:21] iamlindoro: we're going to do the 15th
[16:56:29] gbee: I'm proposing the 15th since it gives them two weekends
[16:56:31] iamlindoro: one is quite incomplete, one has a few missing screens
[16:57:16] gbee: and we'll accept further submissions before the new deadline
[16:57:33] abqjp: I think that is a very good idea. It would be better to give them some motivation to complete the theme, then let them sit unfinished.
[16:57:40] gbee: if anyone was working on a theme but didn't bother to submit because they weren't finished
[17:01:28] danielk221 is now known as danielk22
[17:01:35] danielk22: (12:00:51 PM) danielk221: iamlindoro: it is not fair to those who submitted a theme on time to extend the competition.
[17:02:36] iamlindoro: Well, if we call it quits now, we award one prize by default for the one and only complete entry
[17:02:48] iamlindoro: anyway, I was talked into this extension
[17:03:11] iamlindoro: We could award a bonus to the one theme that met requirements, on time, I suppose
[17:03:18] danielk22: iamlindoro: we can give that person 1st prize and then extend the competition of the rest.
[17:03:32] danielk22: s/of/for/
[17:03:52] iamlindoro: gbee, Captain_Murdoch, thoughts?
[17:04:24] iamlindoro: I am not averse to that, but don't have particularly strong feelings one way or another
[17:06:06] gbee: some, if not all of those themes submitted on the deadline had been started before the competition was officially announced, it's arguable that 4 months for theme from someone who has never tried theming before is a very tight deadline and it's not unreasonable to extend the deadline on the basis that everyone gets a chance to resubmit
[17:07:46] gbee: those who submitted on the deadline have extra time to finish and polish, that new entrants will still be at a disadvantage because they'll be spending the time catching up
[17:09:04] gbee: the point of placing a time limit was so that we could release new themes with 0.24, the competition was never meant to be a race
[17:11:01] danielk22: gbee: changing the rules of a competition to favor the losers is not only unfair but also immoral and illegal.
[17:18:06] gbee: I disagree, but then the issue of time vs merit has always been a sore point for me, I'm a slow writer, something about the way I was taught to hold a pen and as a result my exam essays etc were always shorter, even if my knowledge of the subject was superior and my arguments more persuasive – I was penalised by my inability to finish in the time limit
[17:20:32] janneg (janneg! has quit (*.net *.split)
[17:20:33] Captain_Murdoch (Captain_Murdoch! has quit (*.net *.split)
[17:20:33] jams (jams! has quit (*.net *.split)
[17:20:33] Beirdo (Beirdo!~gjhurlbu@unaffiliated/beirdo) has quit (*.net *.split)
[17:20:33] gbutters (gbutters! has quit (*.net *.split)
[17:20:33] jpabq- (jpabq-! has quit (*.net *.split)
[17:20:40] gbee: you wouldn't judge a child's doodle as better than the sistine chapel because one took 5 minutes and the other took years – but if that's what we'd rather do then so be it
[17:22:16] Beirdo (Beirdo!~gjhurlbu@unaffiliated/beirdo) has joined #mythtv-theming
[17:22:16] janneg (janneg! has joined #mythtv-theming
[17:22:16] Captain_Murdoch (Captain_Murdoch! has joined #mythtv-theming
[17:22:16] jams (jams! has joined #mythtv-theming
[17:22:16] gbutters (gbutters! has joined #mythtv-theming
[17:22:16] jpabq- (jpabq-! has joined #mythtv-theming
[17:22:16] Mode for #mythtv-theming by : +v janneg
[17:23:12] gbee: err, I should have been more careful with that example, I'm in no way slighting mag0o's 'childish' theme, it wasn't even on my mind
[17:23:40] abqjp: danielk22's point is just that changing the rules after the competition is "over", is unfair to anyone that actually followed the original rules.
[17:23:53] mag0o: iamlindoro: that should be plenty
[17:23:56] mag0o: thanks!
[17:24:22] danielk22: gbee: we can extend the time for the rest of the prizes, but just think of it in terms of a soccer game where the score was 2:1 at the end of 2 hours and then the ref decided to extend the game an hour, both teams have a chance to score more but it is still unfair to the team that already won by the established rules.
[17:25:11] danielk22: The runner up prizes are also pretty nice too if I recall correctly.
[17:25:41] mag0o: one question – have the submitted themes been reviewed? i'm assuming that mine has, and if the others have, would pointers on all submissions be good to send to the authors?
[17:26:05] iamlindoro: I have reviewed them in a basic fashion, mostly for completeness/eligibility
[17:26:59] iamlindoro: I don't know about sending pointers in light of extra time being afforded
[17:27:32] iamlindoro: would feel better about doing that after the final submission
[17:27:41] danielk22: iamlindoro: do you still need judges? I'm willing to volunteer. I haven't looked at any of the themes other than screenshots. And don't actually know which entry was the complete one, I'm just arguing that on abstract fairness grounds.
[17:27:47] mag0o: well, the only reason i say that is my being notified of my missing screens could be seen as help, but then again, since i have been idling in here, getting help i guess it's to my advantage
[17:28:14] iamlindoro: danielk22: I was hoping to enlist all the devs as judges (and collating our votes on -developers)
[17:28:18] iamlindoro: so yeah, you'd be very welcome
[17:28:33] gbee: if we'd already judged the competition and announced winners then I think it would be unfair, but we've not even started judging. That said if we want to guarantee first prize to one of the existing submissions then that's ok by me
[17:29:41] abqjp: Heh, I had forgotten that part of the contest was a UI patch submission! I might even qualify for that :-p Actually, if I don't qualify that is OK — but a T-Shirt would be kinda cool.
[17:29:59] danielk22: iamlindoro: ah, ok. I don't know if everyone will want to review, but I'll do it. Just send review deadlines when you announce the review is to commence.
[17:30:02] gbee: instead of giving submitters pointers I suggest just reminding everyone of the rules and to ensure they have completed their themes
[17:30:05] iamlindoro: Think you qualify
[17:30:12] iamlindoro: gbee: I did so
[17:30:20] mag0o: well, the extra time to complete what is missing will be great, regardless, i'm going to make sure it is complete in every way since it'll be on the girls' tv :)
[17:30:29] iamlindoro: at least, I addressed it personally with magoo here and replied to the TransBlue guy on-list
[17:30:42] iamlindoro: and emphasized re-reading the rules in the extension message
[17:30:46] gbee: iamlindoro: ah, ok the email has just come through
[18:58:24] danielk22: magOo: If it were going on my daughter's PC I'd be disabling whole sections, esp config. But then she's 1 and just likes to figure out which buttons have the greatest effect on the screen.
[19:00:08] Captain_Murdoch: danielk22, my daughter's computer has 3 options on the menu. Watch Recordings, MythVideo, and an external link to exec gqview since she knows it's interface.
[19:04:55] mrand: Captain_Murdoch: how old? at 2.5, I gave my daughter a WinXP laptop and let her go. She figured it all out.
[19:06:27] Captain_Murdoch: 3.5
[19:07:06] Captain_Murdoch: and she's more picky than my wife when it comes to skipping commercials. "It's a commercial daddy, make it go away!"
[19:07:14] mrand: hahaha
[19:08:10] iamlindoro: by figured it all out, presumably you mean "where babies come from"
[19:11:30] danielk22: Until i was 13 or 14, I thought computers were for bankers and irrelevant to my life. Of course my interaction with them had basically been to play pong on the family's new 12-inch B&W TV, and, well, electronic calculators.
[19:11:43] danielk22: Then WordStar came along...
[19:15:41] mag0o: . . . cial;#245696
[19:16:16] mag0o: she's 7 now and pretty much knows her way around the myth box
[19:17:12] mag0o: although now her biggest issue is why the dish network stb can't pause her show
[19:52:16] gbee (gbee! has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:52:29] gbee (gbee! has joined #mythtv-theming
[19:52:30] Mode for #mythtv-theming by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v gbee
[22:09:38] danielk22 (danielk22!~danielk@ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[22:24:21] rooaus (rooaus! has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:29:35] grokky (grokky! has joined #mythtv-theming
[22:41:36] rooaus (rooaus! has joined #mythtv-theming
[22:42:39] danielk22 (danielk22!~danielk@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[23:13:48] natanojl (natanojl! has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[23:37:18] danielk221 (danielk221!~danielk@ has joined #mythtv-theming
[23:37:18] danielk22 (danielk22!~danielk@ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

IRC Logs collected by BeirdoBot.
Please use the above link to report any bugs.