| Monday, August 25th, 2014, 00:22 UTC | ||
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| [00:38:54] | rhollan: | I was thinking of a FE/BE setup through a power line lan, but I'm only getting 40 Mb/s through the powerline lan across the house. |
| [00:39:19] | rhollan: | O.K. for DVDs and many Blue Rays, but likely not good enough for 4K video. |
| [00:47:13] | rhollan: | It suggests a tuner in the DMZ only and not a BE |
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| [00:54:24] | rhollan: | So, I guess I will make a new FE/BE and relegate my old FE/BE to a mail server |
| [00:56:01] | rhollan: | Of course, if I use the BE for TV recording, then it would be fine. I'll have to think about this. |
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| [00:59:23] | rhollan-afk: | beer time |
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| [01:14:21] | Hydroponx: | what's the "right" way to import dvd rips in 0.27 ? |
| [01:15:07] | [R]: | "right"? |
| [01:15:21] | Hydroponx: | in 0.26, I used mythutil --scanvideo |
| [01:15:30] | Hydroponx: | maybe, scanvideos |
| [01:15:51] | Hydroponx: | in 0.27, I don't even get a log file update when I run it and no videos since the upgrade have been imported |
| [01:17:19] | [R]: | i just use the menu |
| [01:19:32] | Hydroponx: | that works, didn't realise it was an option from there, I'd always used the cli |
| [01:20:07] | Hydroponx: | thanks |
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| [11:29:18] | wagnerrp: | is there actually any real world usage of HEVC? |
| [11:29:30] | wagnerrp: | the only things i can dig up are some high end IP security cameras |
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| [12:48:03] | niobos: | wagnerrp: it's supposed to be for 4k content |
| [12:48:29] | niobos: | but until the patent holders can agree to the amount of money they want, nobody will make a chip that implements h.265 without knowing what the cost will be |
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| [16:48:25] | ** rhollan wonders if 40Mb/s over a powerline lan is sufficient to stream 1080p video, or at least whatever is recorded from Comcast cable. ** | |
| [16:48:46] | rhollan: | I'm guesing yes, since Comcast is not know for high bitrate video. |
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| [17:00:13] | rhollan: | BD Video can be 54 Mb/s, so that would be inadequate. Guess only 'Cable' video can be reliavly served over that connection. |
| [17:00:33] | rhollan: | This suggests keeping a high bit-rate repository close to the playback device |
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| [17:43:59] | squidly: | Anyone using a Zotac minipc for a frontend? |
| [17:48:53] | rhollan: | I have |
| [17:48:55] | rhollan: | works O.K. |
| [17:48:59] | rhollan: | combined FE/BE |
| [17:49:10] | rhollan: | ZBOX 81 IIRC |
| [17:49:42] | rhollan: | Intel Atom D525 with Nvidea ION2 graphics. The ION2 with VDPAU does the heavy lifting. |
| [17:50:27] | squidly: | rhollan: ok cool. I was looking at it. I already have a good powerful backend server. |
| [17:50:33] | squidly: | Does it come with an IR system? |
| [17:50:41] | squidly: | and is it build into the system or what? |
| [17:50:43] | rhollan: | No. You need to add a USB IR dongle. |
| [17:50:51] | rhollan: | but there is a front USB port for that. |
| [17:51:27] | squidly: | Ok. That's what I thought. That's going to kill it for me then. I want something with the IR reciever built int. |
| [17:51:35] | rhollan: | What's you BE, and why isn't the Zotac enough? |
| [17:51:40] | rhollan: | your BE |
| [17:52:02] | rhollan: | Consider i3–4010U NUC |
| [17:52:09] | rhollan: | I'm building out a system around that. |
| [17:52:19] | rhollan: | A bit spendy, but you pay for size. |
| [17:52:21] | squidly: | My backend is a dedicated 4GB dual 3GHZ Xeon |
| [17:52:34] | squidly: | with 500GB off my file server |
| [17:52:40] | rhollan: | why need that much oomph? What you transcoding to? |
| [17:52:59] | rhollan: | the Zotac will record Cable HD just fine. |
| [17:53:01] | squidly: | Because I want it and I got the server for very cheap |
| [17:53:20] | rhollan: | I guess. I'd not waste that power on a BE, myself, but TEHO |
| [17:53:56] | squidly: | I have quite a bit of power that is avaliable. The biggest hit I take is my networking |
| [17:54:13] | rhollan: | The i3–4010U NUC runs around $280. Add $100 for 8GB RAM (4 would likely do), and $100 for a 120 GB mSATA drive, and you're golden. |
| [17:55:31] | squidly: | I'm also trying to get it setup to have my system transcode from mpeg2 to mp4. I've not spend that much time on it. |
| [17:55:33] | rhollan: | I've got mplayer with VAAPI support rendering 1080p 120 Mb/s Jellyfish demos with under 15% CPU |
| [17:55:47] | rhollan: | transcoding will take CPU, yes. |
| [17:56:11] | squidly: | I got the server for less then $100. I had build the frontend 7 years ago. It finally had gotten to the point where I need to replace it. |
| [17:56:21] | rhollan: | I've run 35 Mb/s 4K60 video through it, downscaled to 1080p60 with no trouble too. |
| [17:56:54] | ** rhollan does not have a 4K monitor (yet) ** | |
| [17:56:58] | squidly: | lol |
| [17:58:48] | squidly: | my backend can also push quite a bit. I have it able to stream to 8 devices at once. (99% of that is 1080P) |
| [18:00:01] | rhollan: | That's generally not a problem: 400 Mb/s (8 x top-rate BD 1080p video), will fly out a GigE port. |
| [18:00:20] | rhollan: | 'course your old hardware would struggle with that. |
| [18:00:43] | rhollan: | Seriously, modern hardware is getting seriously impressive |
| [18:01:27] | squidly: | rhollan: I know how good modern and older hardware is. |
| [18:01:40] | squidly: | My backend is actually an IBM x336. :) |
| [18:02:04] | rhollan: | The point is you can do a lot more with far less CPU these days. But, hey, if you have the oomph (for transcoding), use it. |
| [18:02:11] | squidly: | I also push a lot though my network with iSCSI and nfs |
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| [18:02:49] | squidly: | Yep.. that's what I have it for. I might add the fronent as a secondary backend if I decided to go with an internal HDD, |
| [18:02:51] | rhollan: | I'm seriously thinking about retiring old mATX boxes I have 9 |
| [18:02:55] | rhollan: | mail servers |
| [18:02:57] | rhollan: | etc |
| [18:03:47] | squidly: | heh. |
| [18:03:56] | rhollan: | You can put a 2.5" drive in the NUC case that supports one, up to 1 TB. |
| [18:04:30] | rhollan: | And, if you don't mind the $$$ Samsung has 1T mSATA SSDs (EVO 830, IIRC), for around $475 |
| [18:04:50] | rhollan: | the smaller NUC case does not accomodate a 2.5" drive, but does an mSATA. |
| [18:04:53] | squidly: | rhollan: $$ is a bit of an issuee for me |
| [18:05:27] | rhollan: | Sure. The NUC sports 4 USB3 ports that you can hang an external spinning disk off of |
| [18:05:56] | rhollan: | But, for 1080p rendering the ZBOX Z81 is fine/ |
| [18:06:15] | rhollan: | Haven't tried K on it. |
| [18:06:17] | rhollan: | 4K |
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| [18:06:57] | rhollan: | Don't know if the ZBOX will do 7.1 audio over HDMI, tho. The NUC is supposed to. |
| [18:07:16] | squidly: | yea I don't want to deal with external HDD"s |
| [18:07:31] | squidly: | they drive me up the wall.. and I have a 5 year old. He likes to try to figure out how things work.. |
| [18:08:05] | rhollan: | I have a 14 year old. HE tries to figure out how things work. Do you know what it takes to load modded XBOX 360 games? |
| [18:08:28] | squidly: | yea.. it's usually a pain in the ass |
| [18:09:30] | rhollan: | Let's just say, that the system verifys the signature and then decides to load off the DVDROM. So, if you can swap disks while spinning, without ejecting them.... |
| [18:09:45] | rhollan: | ... it will read your modded game disk |
| [18:10:22] | rhollan: | The NUC will accomodate a 9.5mm 2.5" drive, and there are cases that will accomodate up to 2... but those get spendy |
| [18:11:15] | rhollan: | My Zotac FE/BE has 2GB ram, a 250GB SSD boot drive (what was I thinking?) and a 3T external eSATA drive for recordings. |
| [18:13:56] | squidly: | rhollan: my fileserver right now had 6TB of space avaliable. 2 for movies |
| [18:15:04] | rhollan: | Well, if you just want an FE, either the Intel Atom D525 with Nvidia ION2 Zotac box or the i3 NUC will do just fine, the NUC having a front panel IR sensor. |
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| [18:15:47] | rhollan: | The NUC does not have built in WLAN, though you can get a miniPCI card for it (and STILL install an mSATA drive) |
| [18:16:04] | rhollan: | the Zotac DOES have 802.11g (dunno about n) |
| [18:16:44] | rhollan: | Just remember: VDPAU for Nvidia and VAAPI for Intel. |
| [18:16:47] | squidly: | Yea I'm not to worried about the Wireless right now. |
| [18:17:04] | squidly: | I may worry about that for a bedroom tv (if I ever decide to get one) |
| [18:17:12] | rhollan: | The NUC has the improved HD4400 graphics. HD5000 graphics on the i5 NUC, but those cost $80-$100 more. |
| [18:17:39] | redfraggle: | hello all :) any one up for a weird mythweb problem? |
| [18:17:51] | rhollan: | Be careful though: those are the newer Haswell NUCs |
| [18:18:04] | squidly: | I much prefer the Nvidia cards over the the Intel cards. |
| [18:19:00] | squidly: | rhollan: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856107127 That is one I'm looking at |
| [18:19:59] | redfraggle: | here goes. |
| [18:20:07] | redfraggle: | PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function query_col() on a non-object in /usr/local/www/mythweb/modules/backend_log/init.php |
| [18:20:24] | rhollan: | No experience with the GeForce GT 610M video chip. But, it's nvidia so VDPAU might do it for you. Others might have better answers. |
| [18:20:28] | redfraggle: | is being printed in the http-access log I have no idea at all what that might be |
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| [18:20:47] | squidly: | VDAPU will work nicely on that one. |
| [18:21:09] | redfraggle: | vaapi is for amd too ya? |
| [18:21:16] | redfraggle: | amd/ati |
| [18:21:36] | squidly: | Right now I'm running. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131318 |
| [18:24:14] | rhollan: | Should work fine. Have no experience with it. |
| [18:24:39] | squidly: | rhollan: It works.. but it's not great. |
| [18:24:55] | rhollan: | I meant the Jetway |
| [18:25:00] | squidly: | Ahh |
| [18:25:19] | rhollan: | my biggest issue is bandwith to my BE: I can't get more than 40Mb/s over a powerline LAN |
| [18:25:21] | squidly: | Yea that should work well. I think I'm going to sit zotac one |
| [18:25:38] | squidly: | I refruse to run powerline-ethernet. |
| [18:25:48] | squidly: | to easy to get outside your house by accident |
| [18:25:51] | rhollan: | It's either that or wireless or an ugly cable. |
| [18:26:02] | rhollan: | and I don't put important stuff on it. |
| [18:26:14] | squidly: | I run cables.. I have them tacked to the wall as best I can in my appartment |
| [18:26:23] | kormoc: | 802.11 AC for me |
| [18:26:30] | squidly: | hey can the Zotac do PXE boot? |
| [18:26:43] | rhollan: | I think so, but not sure. |
| [18:27:05] | rhollan: | I know the NUC can, and the older i5 NUCs support MaaS |
| [18:27:29] | squidly: | Maas? |
| [18:27:35] | rhollan: | Metal as a Service. |
| [18:27:39] | squidly: | Ahh |
| [18:27:48] | rhollan: | Intel AMT technology |
| [18:28:01] | rhollan: | you need the vPro version of the CPU |
| [18:28:44] | rhollan: | Basically, the BIOS has a secure web-based and JSON interface to installing stuff on the box |
| [18:28:53] | rhollan: | over a LAN |
| [18:29:13] | squidly: | hows the Ahh |
| [18:29:14] | rhollan: | with PXE, you can't remotely change what the boot parameters are |
| [18:29:41] | squidly: | Yea. I'm happy to use PXE if it's avaliable. |
| [18:30:14] | squidly: | rhollan: I cant find the NUC on newegg |
| [18:30:20] | rhollan: | Dunno about running 802.11ac: I run 802.11b/n on 2.4 Ghz, and didn't really know if I wanted to server 5.0Ghz for a wireless backbone, so trued PL net. |
| [18:30:34] | rhollan: | But the 40Mb/s point to point bandwith is not impressing me. |
| [18:30:53] | squidly: | rhollan: I'm surprised you are getting that much speed on a PL-NIC |
| [18:31:02] | rhollan: | http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp . . . p;isNodeId=1 |
| [18:32:02] | rhollan: | HomePlug AV2 |
| [18:32:11] | rhollan: | raw speed to 600 Mb/s |
| [18:32:16] | rhollan: | Of course YMMV |
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| [18:32:53] | squidly: | yea YMMV can really change with Powerline. I've seen where it can get really strange with the speed at times |
| [18:33:00] | rhollan: | that was "reserve 5.0Ghz for a wireless backbone so tried PL net" |
| [18:33:37] | rhollan: | kormoc: what kind of bandwidth can you get between floors, if you know on 802.11ac |
| [18:33:53] | redfraggle: | You should be able to pxe boot a zotac |
| [18:34:57] | squidly: | I really need to update my AP. It's running on 802.11b/g |
| [18:35:08] | kormoc: | rhollan, I'm lucky, no floors (apartment), and I get ~ 400mbit/sec with my noisy neighbors |
| [18:36:36] | rhollan: | See, I figured I'd get about the same as I do on a PL net between floors |
| [18:36:48] | rhollan: | The house HAS structured wiring, but in the WRONG places. |
| [18:37:20] | rhollan: | So, between locations it's either a dedicated WLAN or PLAN |
| [18:37:35] | rhollan: | And I struggle whether I want to split my FE/BE into two separate units. |
| [18:37:49] | redfraggle: | you probably see alot of interference on b/g as well |
| [18:37:51] | rhollan: | WLAN is generally for laptop access |
| [18:38:16] | redfraggle: | even here its a fairly congested spectrum I can only imagine in an apartment in the city |
| [18:38:51] | rhollan: | yeah, that's why I am reluctant to go to 802.11ac for a wireless backbone: If 2.4GHz ever gets too noisy, I won't have another band to move the laptop traffic to, |
| [18:39:23] | kormoc: | redfraggle, there's 27 visible access points my laptop can see. I'm the only 5ghz one, which is why it works so well I'd imagine |
| [18:42:04] | rhollan: | I am in a house so there are only a couple of 2.4GHz APs out there |
| [18:42:12] | rhollan: | basically on either side. |
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| [19:31:38] | rhollan: | I suppose 40 Mb/s is enough for anything the Cable company can throw at me. |
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| [20:22:50] | rhollan: | What sort of bandwidth do others expect between their FE and BE? |
| [20:25:00] | justinh: | my old home network was gigE.. but that was more for throwing big files around quickly |
| [20:25:57] | justinh: | BE & FE.. some myth protocol.. db accesses maybe.. artwork... then the AV streams themselves.. in order of magnitude |
| [20:26:27] | justinh: | so whatever the max bitrate your recordings are, budget for that then some more |
| [20:27:01] | justinh: | consider powerline networking. I can't be bothered running cables in this new house, so I'm pondering powerline |
| [20:28:28] | rhollan: | This is HomePlug AV2 powerline networking. |
| [20:28:42] | rhollan: | 600 Mb/s it ain't. |
| [20:29:06] | rhollan: | I have Cat5e structured cabling, but to all the wrong places. |
| [20:29:19] | rhollan: | wireless is fine for laptop/phone to internet |
| [20:29:43] | rhollan: | main use is for splitting a FE/BE |
| [20:30:33] | rhollan: | recording from cable won't be a problem. My worry is eventual distribution of ripped BDs |
| [20:31:11] | rhollan: | They can max out at 40 Mb/s for video alone |
| [20:32:26] | justinh: | I'd have expected at least that from powerline networking adapters |
| [20:33:41] | justinh: | you renting? is that why you can't extend the wired network? |
| [20:34:28] | justinh: | I've considered running cable along the skirting boards.. then if I ever have cause to do work requiring wall or floor digging... they get buried |
| [20:35:07] | justinh: | only problem doing it that was is that it's the *long* way round. one wire per room isn't too hard to hide |
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| [20:37:04] | rhollan: | I'm renting (divorce does that), but I could run some more Cat5e, but I've done that so often in the past, that I'd rather not. There's a certain convenience to wireless/powerline, but bandwidth is a price. |
| [20:37:39] | rhollan: | So far, wifi has really been just for laptop/phone internet access, and it was great for that. |
| [20:38:30] | rhollan: | I've segmented the networks as WAN, DMZ, SEC(ure: office), WLAN, and PLAN: power line lan |
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| [20:39:01] | rhollan: | was going to put the BE in DMZ, and route to it via PLAN |
| [20:39:05] | justinh: | from the lab tests I've done on powerline networking tech, it works on a similar principle to ADSL.. I'd have thought it was more resistant to noise |
| [20:39:30] | rhollan: | To be fair 40 Mb/s is pretty good. |
| [20:40:06] | rhollan: | my setup is also complicated by the fact that I have both residential and business cable WAN connections. |
| [20:40:46] | rhollan: | Right now, the FE/BE goes to an HDHomeRun to a residential cable modem in the LVR.... along with a long coax that snakes across the baseboard. |
| [20:41:18] | rhollan: | Was thinking of multiwanning the residential/business WAN connections in the office, put the BE there, and PLAN to the FE in the LVR. |
| [20:42:58] | rhollan: | Might instead leave the FE/BE in the LVR, with the PLAN connectors a few feet apart (20 or so) so I terminate the residential cable closer to the wall outled, and ruin a third PLAN connection to the office |
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| [20:47:43] | rhollan: | The idea for the PLAN was to provide a backbone for connections to the DMZ (where the BE would live) without tying up the WLAN |
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| [21:38:31] | justinh: | I need a web browser plugin to block any mention of this stupid ice bucket challenge crap |
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| [22:01:27] | rhollan: | It's called an "off switch" |
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| [22:26:04] | wagnerrp: | niobos: i know why the codec exists. i mean... is there actually any present day use of HEVC |
| [22:26:15] | wagnerrp: | user on the mailing list asking how to play his HEVC videos |
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| [22:31:55] | ** rhollan grumbles about his slow 40 Mb/s power line LAN ** | |
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