| Thursday, August 21st, 2014, 00:00 UTC | ||
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| [02:36:18] | RedPenguin: | hello all |
| [02:40:00] | RedPenguin: | I am experiencing "digital breakups" occassionly with MythTV 0.27 with an HDHomeRun Prime (Gigabit Connected) and I checked MythTV, the Prime, the cable signal everything, any way to track down what's cause it, or is it mostly likely the cableco's fault? |
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| [03:52:58] | rhollan_afk: | I get those occasionally on a stock cable box with Comcast. Perhaps it's the cableco. Did you get them on a cable box too? A side by side test would clinch that. |
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| [09:12:26] | niobos: | for future reference: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Cross-eit.py seems to already do what I "invented" yesterday: query the DB for EPG-data, and export that to XMLTV |
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| [12:47:01] | enyc (enyc!~enyc@muddle.enyc.org.uk) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [12:49:00] | enyc: | Question: Under UK freeview where DVB-T is separate from DVB-T2 muxes used for HDTV, and when setting up a backend with a dual-tuner-DVB-T2 tuner *and* 'normal' DVB-T cards... Would I want to set the 2 up as separate 'video sources' etc...? What will go wrong if I put them all as 'one' source — will I get DVB-T2-capable tuner being usurped for DVB-T tasks leaving it 'busy' when something actually requests the HDTV channels?? |
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| [13:18:42] | niobos: | enyc: I'm no expert, but I would make 2 "sources": one DVB-T, and a second DVB-T2; your T2-card can be connected to both sources; your T1-cards to only one source. |
| [13:18:43] | sphery: | enyc: a Video Source is a list of all (and only the) channels available to a particular input *and* how those channels are tuned through that inpu |
| [13:19:10] | niobos: | if anything I say contradicts sphery; sphery is right |
| [13:19:10] | sphery: | so if tuning them is at all different or if there are any channels available on only one source, they must be separate video sources |
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| [13:19:55] | sphery: | niobos: btw, mythtv will never automatically rescan your channels--we only support manually scanning them |
| [13:20:13] | sphery: | so you choose when to do it and you clean up any messes that occur when you decide to do so |
| [13:20:16] | niobos: | sphery: but how often do people manually rescan? |
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| [13:20:39] | niobos: | and if the answer is more frequent than "never": are there ways to make the mess more contained? |
| [13:20:43] | sphery: | depends on how often their channels change and/or how often they notice |
| [13:21:10] | niobos: | deleting channels will result in them reappearing at "random" numbers, messing up my lineup |
| [13:21:38] | sphery: | I always Delete all video sources (to remove all the channels and related information) and then reconfigure from scratch so I never get a mix of broken/missing/new/... channels |
| [13:21:42] | niobos: | if I leave them in, out of the way (high or no channum, visible=0), they'll stay there on rescan, but incure a permanent performance penalty |
| [13:22:20] | sphery: | yeah, I'm of the opinion that deleting them to keep a clean database is best with current mythtv |
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| [13:22:29] | niobos: | I'm currently busy arranging/sorting/numbering around 2000 channels; I would prefer not to redo that effort every couple of months |
| [13:22:30] | sphery: | many argue that "that means more work when I rescan" |
| [13:22:50] | niobos: | indeed |
| [13:23:05] | sphery: | but since we have no way to say a channel is disabled, leaving them in is not ideal |
| [13:23:31] | niobos: | isn't channum='' and visible=0 close to disabled? |
| [13:24:16] | sphery: | We will eventually get around to changing visible to be a proper state flag for the channel, including disabled, live tv only, recordings only, normal, but until then I think leaving the channel in and not visible is ugly |
| [13:24:18] | niobos: | or to rephrase: how is it different from a "disable" feature? |
| [13:24:26] | sphery: | channum should never be '' |
| [13:24:41] | sphery: | not visible is the closest to disabled we have |
| [13:25:12] | sphery: | disabled would actually inform mythtv that it's to never be used for anything |
| [13:25:13] | ** niobos has some channels with channum=''... and nothing seems to break... ** | |
| [13:25:20] | sphery: | yet :) |
| [13:25:31] | niobos: | :-/ |
| [13:25:41] | sphery: | let's just say it's not something we intend to allow--and no part of mythtv code should allow it |
| [13:25:43] | niobos: | point taken |
| [13:26:00] | sphery: | direct db access would allow it, but only because "not null" is all we can specify on the column constraints |
| [13:26:41] | niobos: | I must admit that I'm doing my linup in phpmyadmin, because that's the easiest way I could find |
| [13:26:49] | sphery: | if you were able to set that through any part of mythtv, please let me know |
| [13:26:52] | niobos: | but I fully understand that this is not supposed to be done that way |
| [13:27:07] | niobos: | and that I can break things in unimaginable ways |
| [13:27:17] | sphery: | (ok, I'll bet you could through MythWeb, but it has absolutely no data integrity checks on its settings pages) |
| [13:27:23] | niobos: | mythweb's channel editor just sucks |
| [13:27:31] | niobos: | especially with 2000 channels and no paging |
| [13:27:32] | sphery: | yeah, all ours do now |
| [13:28:12] | niobos: | Apart from violating API layers, I find phpmyadmin quite OK |
| [13:29:08] | niobos: | nice paging support; filter on source or combine them; sort on multiplex, callsign and/or name |
| [13:29:15] | niobos: | batch-set useonairguide, ... |
| [13:29:31] | sphery: | yeah, but if it didn't exist/weren't usable for directly manipulating mythtv data, maybe someone would have already fixed up the proper channel editor |
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| [13:29:54] | sphery: | instead of everyone doing a "I'm a SQL expert so this is OK" direct DB edit for themselves |
| [13:30:01] | niobos: | good point |
| [13:30:40] | niobos: | In my current workflow, however, I'd rather fix the mythweb channel editor. Since I'm watching channels to decide where they need to go in the lineup, so I'm already using the mythtv screen output |
| [13:30:50] | niobos: | and since MythWeb is going to be replaced (or so I heard) |
| [13:31:20] | sphery: | (the "I'm a SQL expert" comment is based on comments on see on -users list where people seem to think that means they can directly edit the database without problems. I find that a funny argument since SQL says absolutely nothing about MythTV data formats/interpretations/requirements/..., which are only specified in our ? lines of code) |
| [13:31:54] | sphery: | rather than fix the mythweb one, you should work on the backend web interface one |
| [13:31:59] | sphery: | which you can actually use now |
| [13:32:19] | niobos: | the "problem" is that your database schema is actually quite good: reusing the same column name for foreign keys for example |
| [13:32:21] | sphery: | and I think the channel editor is a bit better than mythweb's (and does do paging, but probably to too large a degree) |
| [13:32:32] | niobos: | I "reverse engineered" the database in an hour or so |
| [13:32:57] | sphery: | but still not the meaning of the data |
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| [13:33:08] | sphery: | or the fact that channum is not supposed to ever be '' :) |
| [13:33:12] | niobos: | (I'm not encouraging obsuring the schema, just to be clear) |
| [13:33:16] | sphery: | hehe |
| [13:33:22] | sphery: | I plan to obscure the database, actually |
| [13:33:29] | sphery: | (embedded MySQL) |
| [13:33:33] | niobos: | no, but if I sort on 'visible" and see 0's and 1's, things are quite clear |
| [13:34:10] | sphery: | too much of the problems people have getting started are due to lack of understanding of MySQL/MySQL install/MySQL configuration/MySQL security |
| [13:34:32] | sphery: | so if they can skip all of mysql and we just make it work, it's better for everyone |
| [13:34:53] | niobos: | I configure MySQL on a regular basis, and was "disapointed" that MythBuntu did everything for me |
| [13:35:10] | niobos: | everything just worked |
| [13:35:14] | sphery: | (plus it would make it much more difficult to use mysql command-line client or phpmyadmin, so people would be more likely to actually code up the tools to allow /everyone/ to work with their systems properly) |
| [13:35:21] | sphery: | hehe |
| [13:35:34] | sphery: | that said, it's amazing how many people have issues even with mythbuntu |
| [13:36:11] | sphery: | mainly because they use mythbuntu but find some random blog/web page/... that shows how to do something and they unconfigure what mythbuntu configured |
| [13:36:12] | niobos: | I love the fact that your DB is this open. It's a "we have nothing to hide" sign to me. |
| [13:36:26] | niobos: | But I do understand that if I poke on the insides, I might/will break things |
| [13:36:55] | sphery: | yeah, all the data we collect to sell to advertisers and broadcasters is sent directly to our server so we don't have to hide it in the database |
| [13:37:11] | sphery: | (that's a huge joke--we don't collect or sell any data about users :) |
| [13:37:59] | niobos: | they do that themselves by posting on facebook what they just watched |
| [13:38:11] | sphery: | fwiw, I'd recommend at least setting your channels to have a valid channel number (and call sign)... just make them large numbers to group them together or whatever |
| [13:38:19] | sphery: | yeah, definitely |
| [13:38:20] | niobos: | will do |
| [13:38:25] | sphery: | amazing how much people share |
| [13:38:36] | niobos: | and I'll stick with visible=0 to "disable" them |
| [13:38:47] | sphery: | oh, and ideally no same-channel-number channels on the same video source |
| [13:39:05] | niobos: | why? |
| [13:39:09] | sphery: | you can have duplicate channel numbers on different sources (ideally only if the channels are the same) |
| [13:39:29] | sphery: | but there are some bugs that occur if you have multiple channels on the same video source with the same channel number |
| [13:39:50] | niobos: | Cause I have a bunch of "ITV" channels (same source, same mplex, just different sid) |
| [13:39:59] | sphery: | the code is supposed to allow it, but there are some places that have issues with it |
| [13:40:18] | niobos: | ok, I'll just use 123–1, 123–2, ... |
| [13:40:25] | sphery: | yeah, that's the best approach |
| [13:40:34] | sphery: | or _ or . |
| [13:40:51] | niobos: | my remote has a key that is mapped to -; so I'll go with the hyphen |
| [13:41:02] | sphery: | I think we used to allow any of the 3, but now we only use _ |
| [13:41:15] | sphery: | I think it will work with any, but I can only guarantee _ works |
| [13:41:25] | sphery: | note, though, that you need not type _ or – or . |
| [13:41:34] | sphery: | so, to tune 123_1, just type 1231 |
| [13:41:52] | niobos: | what happens if both 123_1 and 1231 exists? |
| [13:42:01] | sphery: | then it would go to 1231 |
| [13:42:26] | sphery: | so, I should say, "as long as there is no ambiguity, 1231 would go to 123_1" |
| [13:42:56] | niobos: | but typing 123_1 would always work |
| [13:42:58] | sphery: | ideally (from a usability standpoint and not related to mythtv/technical requirements) you'd configure so there is no ambiguity |
| [13:43:01] | sphery: | yes |
| [13:43:13] | sphery: | I'm too lazy to actually type the _ |
| [13:43:27] | niobos: | I have too much OCD to ommit the _ ;-) |
| [13:43:54] | sphery: | even though I only ever use live tv to test my system--meaning I just used it for the first time in years because I just moved (and had to install my antenna and verify it was working) |
| [13:44:36] | sphery: | so those 2 times I typed a channel number in a few years time would have been far too much work if I had to type a _ :) |
| [13:44:41] | enyc: | sphery: I'm not 100% sure about "tuning them is at all different" — I presume tuning info about DVB-T card is the same across all the 'compatible' DVB-T and DVB-T2-also-compatible-cards, but what you say about the sources and channels completely makes sense =). Also, I think I will be safest to program in the right 'network id' for the DVB so as not to accedintally pick up channels from the 'wrong' tv-transmitter-mast (weak signal versions)... Make |
| [13:44:54] | niobos: | I'm in the same situation at the moment, but I don't use liveTV for "regular" use |
| [13:45:54] | niobos: | enyc: I don't know the situation in UK; but here (.be) DVB-T is in a SFN, so you can't choose which transmitter you receive, you always receive them all |
| [13:45:56] | sphery: | enyc: Yeah, I don't know much about DVB, but I'd guess there would be some differences |
| [13:46:03] | enyc: | sphery: I'm just ... not sure if I can somehow 'de-prefer' the DVB-T2 tuners, so that they don't get "used up" when not *needed* or if mythtv is intelligent enough to not do such a thing anyway =) |
| [13:46:10] | sphery: | your best bet might be to find another UK mythtv user and see how they do it |
| [13:46:31] | sphery: | I think stuartm would know, if you see him on here |
| [13:46:48] | sphery: | I'm 99.9% positive he's using DVB-T and DVB-T2 |
| [13:46:58] | sphery: | but then again, probably many others would, too |
| [13:47:25] | enyc: | Mythtv UK DVB-T+DVB-T2 Users Wanted!! advert! advert!! =) |
| [13:47:48] | sphery: | or feel free to post to the mythtv-users mailing list ( http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ) or the forum ( https://forum.mythtv.org/ ) to get more eyes on |
| [13:47:51] | enyc: | sphery: does mythtv still treat one tuner as one source only and not 'pick up extra channels on the same mux from the same input' ?? |
| [13:48:08] | enyc: | sphery: [not so much of an issue now that multi tuners is easy enough, now ...] |
| [13:48:12] | sphery: | we have multirec support, for allowing recording multiple channels from the same mux at the same time |
| [13:48:30] | enyc: | sphery: automatic in 0.27.3, or complexities involved? |
| [13:48:42] | sphery: | automatic |
| [13:48:45] | enyc: | sphery: ooo |
| [13:49:01] | sphery: | even configured by default to allow up to 2 recordings per multirec-enabled tuner |
| [13:49:15] | sphery: | (though you can increase that to 5 in mythtv-setup) |
| [13:49:27] | enyc: | sphery: in which case I wonder if I can/should convince mythtv that one DVB-T2 tuner is always on one frequency, and the other on another frequency (there are only 2 DVB-T2 muxes round here anyway...!) |
| [13:49:38] | enyc: | sphery: i wonder why the 'limit' at all... |
| [13:49:39] | sphery: | beyond 5 we've passed the point of diminishing returns |
| [13:50:02] | sphery: | each one you add increases scheduling complexity (and, therefore, time) significantly |
| [13:50:09] | enyc: | interesting |
| [13:50:10] | niobos: | enyc: if you mainly use recordings, mythtv's scheduler will figure this out by itself |
| [13:50:30] | enyc: | niobos: nodsnods but i was still wondering from 'increase efficiency with lots of tuners' POV |
| [13:50:35] | sphery: | and beyond 5 for a given tuner, it becomes a big enough challenge to place recordings that it takes a /lot/ of time |
| [13:51:01] | enyc: | its not that expensive for me to just have a tuner 'per frequency' i.e. they all 'stay static' and mythtv can record 'anything' it wants to at any time ....... |
| [13:51:12] | sphery: | and since mythtv is primarily aimed at tv, which should have some bandwidth that's a significant portion of the mux's available bandwidth, we figure 5 is sufficient for anyone |
| [13:51:31] | sphery: | and if someone really wants to record >5 on a mux, they can just buy additional physical tuners |
| [13:51:37] | enyc: | nods |
| [13:51:42] | enyc: | still |
| [13:51:59] | sphery: | scheduling complexity is easier with distinct physical tuners because you don't have the "only usable if it's already being used on the right mux" issue |
| [13:52:14] | enyc: | say for instance i want to use low-power not-so-fast-cpu machine thats' just 'shuttling bits' recording DVB ... |
| [13:52:34] | enyc: | I would wonder if i could just have a set of tuners each of which is 'only' on the channels for 1 frequency |
| [13:52:40] | enyc: | all separate sources etc. |
| [13:53:09] | enyc: | then this 'simplifies' its logic as theres only 1 tuner, its juts a matter of 'you can only have 5 channels on a mux at ance' whihc is almost certainly fine |
| [13:54:07] | enyc: | Still, I wonder, wrt DVB cards, how to tell *wich* are multirec compatible etc. |
| [13:54:17] | enyc: | I got the impression most just supply the 'stream' to the host as-is |
| [13:54:52] | sphery: | we don't have a way to lock a tuner to a given mux, but barring some extreme corner cases, if you have as many physical tuners as mux'es, you should always be able to tune any channel on any mux |
| [13:55:14] | enyc: | sphery: surely when scanning for channels you could just scan that freq only, if you wanted to ... ? |
| [13:55:17] | sphery: | all DVB (including DVB2) should be compatible |
| [13:55:24] | enyc: | sphery: thats what I thought |
| [13:55:27] | sphery: | and ATSC and ClearQAM |
| [13:55:37] | sphery: | but, basically, your encoders and firewire and ... aren't |
| [13:55:47] | enyc: | sphery: which I'm carefully avoiding =) |
| [13:55:51] | sphery: | so no HD-PVR multirec or PVR-150 multirec |
| [13:55:54] | sphery: | yeah, me too |
| [13:55:56] | enyc: | sphery: uk dvb is nice for mythtv really |
| [13:56:09] | enyc: | sphery: EIT guide works, no schedules-direct etc etc |
| [13:56:35] | enyc: | sphery: I'm going to expriment with ARM and atom and debian-wheezy variounts and stuffs, long story ;p |
| [13:56:44] | sphery: | I actually have a cable subscription (with a cable company that marks nothing as "copy freely", so I can't use CableCARD) and don't record anything from it to MythTV because I don't want to deal with HD-PVRs |
| [13:56:57] | enyc: | sphery: the mythbuntu people are being helpful in small incremental fixes to their packaging/mythtv-fixes-PPA etc... =) |
| [13:57:09] | sphery: | cool |
| [13:57:35] | enyc: | sphery: I can, mostly, get their package so it works on ubuntu *and* debian without as much changes as the deb-multimedia people =) |
| [13:59:10] | enyc: | sphery: though theres some weird bug building 0.27.3 on ARM variants for wheezy, linker failure, ... =( |
| [13:59:29] | enyc: | next brief question =) |
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| [14:01:05] | enyc: | I know kodi/xbmc is a much better 'source of other internet sources/stuff' than mythtv, but ... I'm wondering what are the benefits/disadvantages of XBMC-mythtv-plugin vs mythfrontend anyway... seemingly there are 'already optimized raspbmc' frontend distros etc etc... |
| [14:01:34] | enyc: | seems to make sense to use the benefits of both together somehow =) |
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| [14:34:50] | sraue: | raspbmc is a distro running XBMC on top of raspbian/debian there are no "optimized raspbmc frontend distros" |
| [14:37:17] | enyc: | sphery: i mean ... optimized for raspberry pi as best as seems to be able to at the moment... |
| [14:37:34] | enyc: | sraue: i mean ... optimized for raspberry pi as best as seems to be able to at the moment...... not that raspberry pi is good ;p |
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| [14:44:13] | sraue: | and i only mean raspbmc has nothing todo with any optimization... they use XBMC which is "optimized" |
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| [16:54:31] | tgm4883: | enyc: so I'm looking at this ipv6 change for the database and I'm not sure of the right solution |
| [16:55:29] | tgm4883: | so we can make mysql listen on both ipv6 and ipv4 addresses, but inside the database there are references to the actual IP address |
| [16:55:46] | tgm4883: | currently it's set to the IPv4 address |
| [16:56:41] | tgm4883: | for instance, the MasterServerIP address and the BackendServerIP address |
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| [18:06:35] | niobos: | anyone with experience with rc_keymap? I'm trying to map a key to get the _ (underscore), but I can't get it to work |
| [18:07:02] | niobos: | KEY_UNDERSCORE isn't defined, probably because there is no such key, only SHIFT + MINUS |
| [18:07:33] | niobos: | (it's all sphery 's fault. I used channel numbers like 123–1, but he told me that I should use _ instead of -) |
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| [19:16:52] | rhollan: | http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=437 |
| [19:17:04] | rhollan: | fanless (fan optional) NUC case by Silverstone. |
| [19:17:13] | ** rhollan drools ** | |
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| [19:56:36] | enyc: | tgm4883: that doesn't matter |
| [19:56:43] | enyc: | tgm4883: it can connect over ipv4 address etc etc |
| [19:57:20] | enyc: | tgm4883: when you configure mythtv-backend, you can configure what the ipv4-masterbackend ipv6-masterbackend 'listening' ip address are (and that to broadcast it should be used with over upnp etc..) |
| [19:57:33] | enyc: | tgm4883: when you configure a frontend, it can connect over ipv4 or ipv6 to the backend |
| [19:57:50] | enyc: | tgm4883: this has no bearing on the 'mysql isn't avaliable over ipv6 if you want it' bug |
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| [19:59:14] | enyc: | tgm4883: I.e.: Those settings 'referenced in the database' are settings used by mythbackend and broadcasted to potential mythfrontend's |
| [20:02:25] | enyc: | tgm4883: at present, what happens, is mysql listens on ipv4-only, so if a frontend *tries* to connect using ipv6, it reaches the mythbackend daemon but failes to access the database, so fails. |
| [20:04:11] | enyc: | tgm4883: In the Source-Tree, "debian/" directory — the second line needs changing from "#bind-address=0.0.0.0" to "#bind-address=::" — this fixes the problem in an entirely ipv4-usage-compatible-manner in the way reccomended by mysql for 5.5 series servers (as in precise, trusty, wheezy) |
| [20:04:31] | enyc: | tgm4883: [mythtv.cfg] |
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