Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, August 19th, 2014, 00:03 UTC

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justinh:

and will people please stop saying "1080p" like it's the absolute pinnacle? it's about bitrate & encoding complexity. I bet a Pi would play a 1080p video without hw acceleration if it was only 2kbits/sec

[00:27:24]

justinh:

I guess this is where the content & screen makers have got most people sussed. MOARPIXELS!

[00:27:37]

justinh:

no, we need higher framerates. No gimmicks

[00:28:09]

justinh:

actually better colour depth, higher framerates.. and more bandwidth for everything. Heh

[00:29:07]

justinh:

I bet a lot of the reason 4k looks so good is there's a wider gamut in the formats they use

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skd5aner:

jpabq: It was maybe about 50% of my recordings, but I played a few tricks with my channel changing script. It seemed most likely to fail if an STB hadn't recorded in several hours, so I have a cron job that sends a non-impactful key at :25 and :55 every hour

[01:47:15]

skd5aner:

jpabq: that seemed to have a very positive impact, but I'm getting about a 3–5% failure now still

[01:47:44]

skd5aner:

jpabq: I also extended the timeout in the script by an additional second

[01:49:44]

skd5aner:

jpabq: I'm curious as to your fix though :)

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rhollan:

lets see if this new RAM works in the i3 NUV

[04:36:44]

rhollan:

i3 NUC

[04:36:50]

** rhollan crosses fingers. **

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[04:48:04]

rhollan:

so far so good. plays 1080p Big Buck Bunny fine

[05:18:57]

rhollan:

The hddvd demo 18mb/s abd birds demos 40 mb/s play back fine.

[05:30:24]

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[05:30:43]

rhollan:

the 50 Mb/s jellyfish demo pushes it. But, then I turned on vaapi support in mplayer.

[05:31:18]

rhollan:

10–15%

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rhollan:

:-)

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rhollan:

This would make a NICE FE

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rhollan:

Intel NUC i3 with mplayer vaapi displays 120 Mb/s jellyfish demo at around 8–12% load

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rhollan:

Intel NUC i3 with mplayer vaapi displays 120 Mb/s jellyfish demo at around 8–12% load

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rhollan-afk:

sleep

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rhollan:

woo hoo! Intel NUC i3–4300 runs mplayer with vaapi extensions flawlessly for up to 120 Mb/s video

[15:03:29]

rhollan:

without vaapi can render Big Buck Bunny fine, too

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rhollan:

a nice litte box.

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Shadow__X:

which i3?

[15:51:22]

Shadow__X:

i also wonder how the celeron 847 would do

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rhollan:

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nu . . . 010wykh.html

[16:54:00]

rhollan:

i3–4010U

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[16:59:43]

rhollan:

half-tempted to relegate my FE/BE to the office and use this for a new FE

[16:59:56]

rhollan:

and just slap a small mSata drive in it.

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[18:26:54]

rhollan:

wagnerrp: the NUC IS a nice platform: the price premium really is for the form factor.

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[19:01:49]

stuartm:

right, but for some that's still a price tag that's hard to justify as much as they might like the package

[19:03:17]

stuartm:

in a way the NUC is where the standard desktop PC should be by now, while every other bit of tech became smaller over time the PC has remained stubbornly big

[19:06:58]

stuartm:

when you've got very decent (albeit low end) sim-free tablets and smartphones for under £150 it's an anomaly that the NUC costs what it does, because while it's a lot more powerful it's still much larger and features a fraction of the components found in those devices (memory, battery, sensors, screen, etc)

[19:09:13]

rhollan:

I admit I like the form factor. I also have a Zotac Atom D520 with nvidia ion2 graphics that was under $300 WITH DRIVE and RAM, but it does not look as nice.

[19:12:59]

rhollan:

Also, the NUC will do 4K video, albeit at 30Hz.

[19:13:51]

stuartm:

I'd love one, but I've no idea what I'd actually do with it, for MythTV development I need a machine which can accept large amounts of storage, tuners and an optical drive, as long as I've got that there's no point in having a second machine just for 'desktop' use

[19:14:15]

rhollan:

An i3 NUC with 4 GB RAM and a small mSATA drive (plenty for a mythTV FE) can be put together for around $389.

[19:14:40]

rhollan:

I'm using the Zotac box for a Myth FE/BE now, with an external 3T sata drive.

[19:14:52]

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[19:15:19]

rhollan:

I was going to use the NUC for a mail server, but am thinking of relegating the Zotac as a combined Myth BE / mail server, and using the NUC for the Myth FE

[19:17:41]

stuartm:

NUC would be wasted as a mail server

[19:19:16]

rhollan:

I wanted something small and quiet, and if I built out a mini-itx box it would cost about the same

[19:20:06]

rhollan:

I have plenty of mini/micro ATX boxes that I'm getting sick of, size and noise wise

[19:28:25]

rhollan:

My original plan was to use the NUC as a combined BE/mail server, but the video is so much better than the Zotac (even though my 1080p TV can't take advantage of it) that I might make it the FE instead.

[19:29:37]

rhollan:

'course then maybe I'd want the D3410WYK and not the WYKH since I would not need the space for the 2.5" drive.

[19:30:01]

rhollan:

I would need a small mSATA drive, though.

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[21:07:42]

justinh:

rhollan: 120Mb/sec? That's pretty awesome

[21:08:02]

justinh:

though I dunno where you get video at that bitrate at 1080p

[21:11:25]

rhollan:

Google the Jellyfish high bitrate test videos

[21:11:37]

rhollan:

that's with vaapi hardware decoding, of course.

[21:11:58]

rhollan:

http://jell.yfish.us/

[21:12:24]

rhollan:

H.264 video in .mkv containers

[21:13:43]

rhollan:

Also look here: http://www.auby.no/files/video_tests/

[21:14:43]

rhollan:

Without hardware deciding the i3 -4010U NUC will just about do hddvd and struggles with Birds.

[21:15:21]

rhollan:

Of course the Zotac Atom D520 with ION2 graphics and VDPAU will do all the auby samples without trouble.

[21:19:48]

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[21:23:15]

rhollan:

justinh: ^^^

[21:24:22]

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[21:32:42]

justinh:

rhollan: nice one. Cheers

[21:33:36]

rhollan:

I originally got the NUC for use as a mail server with thoughts of it as a Myth BE as well (so I can relocate my tuners to the office from the living room)

[21:34:06]

rhollan:

But, it looks like I might repurpose my existing FE/BE as a mail server/BE and use the NUC as a FE.

[21:34:35]

justinh:

I thought it was a bit of a waste to use an i3 as a home email server

[21:34:49]

justinh:

hell even a small business server shouldn't need an i3

[21:36:06]

rhollan:

Yeah, I know. But my *experiment* of sinking my email on my cellphone (linuxforandroid, postfix, and a VPN for a static IP) we less than stellarly reliable, and I didn't want to fire up one of my old micro-ATX boxes

[21:36:39]

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[21:37:24]

rhollan:

And I was planning on relocating the HD HomeRun cable tuner to the office from the living room, and started thinking that maybe I should have a BE there: so video being recorded does not have to go across the house LAN

[21:37:39]

rhollan:

so the i3 was in mine for the BE duty

[21:41:00]

justinh:

heh he re-encoded the original ts to higher bitrates? Didn't expect that

[21:41:34]

rhollan:

Sure, most BD rips won't be over 45 Mb/s

[21:41:56]

rhollan:

a good test of the decoders, though.

[21:43:39]

rhollan:

only thing that marginally sucks about the NUC is that the maximum frame rate for 4K 3840x2160 24bpp video is 30 Hz.

[21:43:58]

rhollan:

But, of course, my existing FE/BE won't even *do* 4K video.

[21:44:00]

justinh:

yeah but 4k ain't gonna be happening any time soon

[21:44:16]

rhollan:

not that I *have* a suitable display for it, but still.

[21:44:17]

justinh:

I hope 4k dies before it's even out of the water

[21:44:22]

rhollan:

why?

[21:44:38]

justinh:

because companies are concentrating on gimmicks like higher res..

[21:44:38]

rhollan:

4K 30 Hz monitors are under $500 if you shop around

[21:44:50]

justinh:

and 'three dee'

[21:45:04]

justinh:

while they're still broadcasting interlaced JUNK

[21:45:20]

rhollan:

Er, for us computer types, we've been dying for more resolution: mostly for more dense editor windows

[21:45:21]

justinh:

at low bitrates where artifacts are visible

[21:45:35]

rhollan:

three dee is, of course, crap

[21:45:39]

justinh:

I'm talking about video, film & tv

[21:46:09]

rhollan:

Oh, 4K video will come soon. Look: cell phones can record 1080p now

[21:46:18]

rhollan:

broadcast, not so much

[21:46:28]

justinh:

I can tell the difference between HD & SD on my 42" TV, but SD is watchable

[21:46:41]

justinh:

cellphone video at 1080p.. wobby, tearing.. crap

[21:47:02]

rhollan:

I have not had that experience. Depends on the phone.

[21:47:19]

rhollan:

most of the wobble is the fault of the person holding the phone

[21:47:19]

justinh:

4k through a $2 lens will look like crap still

[21:47:35]

justinh:

nah the wobble is the rolling shutter effect due to using cmos sensors

[21:47:35]

rhollan:

yes, but there are better cameras than cell phones.

[21:48:45]

rhollan:

The point is that 1080p is today's baseline, crappy encoders and lenses in phones notwithstanding

[21:49:05]

rhollan:

and frankly as displays get bigger, 1080p starts to look low-res

[21:49:14]

justinh:

for home cinema, sure I can see the point in 4k

[21:49:34]

rhollan:

right. And a few years ago 1080p60 was the holy grail

[21:49:36]

justinh:

but for a screen less than a metre across.. meh

[21:49:41]

rhollan:

true dat

[21:49:58]

rhollan:

cinema experience really requires a 30 degree FOV

[21:50:04]

justinh:

and for a screen bigger than a metre across I'm a gonna need a bigger house

[21:50:13]

rhollan:

and at realistic distances, you need projectors.

[21:50:17]

justinh:

to be the right distance away from it

[21:50:38]

rhollan:

what there is a dearth of decent projectors. I figured DLP would have fixed that

[21:50:41]

justinh:

when the kids have moved out :-D

[21:51:28]

rhollan:

how old? Mind are 14 and 21

[21:51:31]

rhollan:

mine

[21:51:57]

justinh:

4 and 2

[21:52:09]

rhollan:

bindere dundat

[21:52:18]

justinh:

got a wee while to wait to have the house to ourselves again

[21:53:04]

justinh:

we've had a fingermark free teevee for er.. well since I ditched the 32" CRT & mounted the LCD on the wall

[21:53:04]

rhollan:

my 14 yo son is very big into gaming... modding his own xbox360 games, and lamenting few of his friends have the xbox one

[21:53:38]

justinh:

xb360 games can be modded? :-O

[21:53:46]

rhollan:

yup

[21:53:53]

rhollan:

big modding community.

[21:54:13]

rhollan:

Game creators tend to frown on it though because it makes cheating trivial

[21:54:28]

justinh:

colour me surprised

[21:54:37]

rhollan:

but such people tend to play among themselves and only a few a-holes troll regular players

[21:55:08]

justinh:

I tried online gaming once. Got fragged within nanoseconds

[21:55:18]

rhollan:

yup

[21:55:19]

justinh:

I mean loads of times. I gave up in the end

[21:55:34]

rhollan:

my son is scary good.

[21:55:39]

rhollan:

even without mods

[21:55:48]

justinh:

I gave up consoles when we bought the Wii. Oh man, that thing is awful

[21:55:59]

rhollan:

Ours sits... unused

[21:56:06]

justinh:

when the kids are older we'll doubtless buy into whatever is around

[21:56:22]

rhollan:

yeah, I tried to resist the gaming stuff... but that lasted for about a year.

[21:56:34]

rhollan:

We have Wii, PS3, XBOX360 XBOX1

[21:56:35]

justinh:

the games on the wii are okay – but the crap they make you sit through..

[21:57:03]

justinh:

wii sports, wii fit.. we had fun with those for a while but the blimmin bloopy bleepy speaking typed on screen text parts were inane

[21:57:06]

rhollan:

XBOX360 will play Comcast OnDemand programs, though, without needing a cable box

[21:57:30]

rhollan:

but only if you have their residential net service.

[21:57:42]

rhollan:

So, as a result, I have both Comcast residential and business internet

[21:59:34]

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[21:59:50]

rhollan:

the biz net is spendy but I get a static IP to host services (without violating any TOS), and an SLA: 16 Mb/s down ALWAYS. The residential service slows up when all the neighborhood kiddie gamers get on after school

[22:00:07]

rhollan:

or all summer long

[22:00:48]

justinh:

ah so mods are just game saves with exploits put into em

[22:01:30]

rhollan:

pretty much, though since you can't sign the modded games, you have to defeat the signature check mechanism.... which means an open console and DVDROM drive

[22:01:37]

justinh:

where I moved from we had 20Mb/s – and it never seemed to slow down

[22:01:56]

rhollan:

We get around that on the residential net, but it does slow down.

[22:02:17]

rhollan:

In practice I see 20–25 Mb/s on the biz net. Remember, my 16 Mb/s is GUARANTEED

[22:03:44]

rhollan:

The two wans terminate in different parts of the house (biz: office, res: living room), and I've been planning to have them terminate in one spot (office), hence my desire for a new main server/myth BE in the office

[22:04:00]

justinh:

in some civilised countries they get gigabit broadband for about the same money as we pay

[22:04:16]

rhollan:

If I terminate them in the same place I can use an OpenWrt router to load balance sessions across the two WANS

[22:04:36]

rhollan:

those countries have much denser populations... it is economical

[22:05:12]

justinh:

even places around London get barely 3Mb/sec

[22:05:36]

rhollan:

here, running cable to "Joe's Farm" costs the cable company, which it has to eat to get the muni charter.

[22:05:54]

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[22:05:56]

justinh:

Joe should pay for it then

[22:06:00]

rhollan:

3 Mb/s in London? That's, how do you say? bollocks

[22:06:17]

justinh:

over here the taxpayer is funding rolling out broadband to the sticks :-/

[22:06:27]

justinh:

why should we ALL pay? let THEM pay

[22:06:43]

rhollan:

doesn't work that way. The cable company gets a monopoly from the city in exchange for providing service to all

[22:06:45]

justinh:

you want fast interwebs, you MOVE to where the fast interwebs are o ryou put up

[22:06:53]

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[22:07:03]

justinh:

yeah some parts of london get very poor speeds

[22:07:16]

rhollan:

taxpayers here subsidize rural phone service but that's about it.

[22:07:34]

justinh:

to improve things faster & cheaper they really need to relax the regulations about cabling

[22:07:37]

rhollan:

I remember in the old DSL days, shopping around for a decent 'hood to move to for that reason.

[22:07:59]

rhollan:

Heh. 1.5 Mb/s was Nirvana in those days.

[22:08:15]

** rhollan grew up with a 300 b/s acoustic modem **

[22:08:38]

justinh:

we had Prestel for about 6 months in the 1980s. 1200/75

[22:09:02]

justinh:

and then nothing online for a very long time lol

[22:09:57]

rhollan:

In the late 70s I was doing contract s/w for a local company and had a computer on loan: Alpha Microsystems box with a 10 MB hard drive.

[22:10:04]

rhollan:

A CDC "Hawk"

[22:10:17]

rhollan:

5 MB fixed platter, 5 MB removable.

[22:10:23]

rhollan:

Size of a beer fridge

[22:10:26]

rhollan:

300 lbs

[22:10:29]

justinh:

hahahaha

[22:10:31]

rhollan:

US$14k

[22:10:54]

rhollan:

dimmed the lights spinning up, and took about 1.5KW

[22:11:00]

justinh:

I remember doing a work placement while I was at college, repairing er.. I think it was compaq PCs

[22:11:18]

justinh:

the biggest fault at the time was the rotational sensor on the hard disk

[22:11:21]

** rhollan looks at his cell phone with 16 GB flash **

[22:12:05]

rhollan:

I sometimes figure out how many "CDC Hawk" drives a give flash chip equals, in terms of floor space, weight, power, and cost

[22:12:10]

justinh:

yeah I was just thinking today, how when I was a mere ZX81 user in the early 80s I'd never have dreamed computers would be so ubiquitous

[22:12:43]

rhollan:

Yeah, I dreamed about being able to get music on a chip... and now I can store my whole audio video collection on one.

[22:12:56]

rhollan:

Mind you, 1T mSATA drives are still spendy: US$475 or so

[22:13:06]

rhollan:

but they're the size of a postage stamp!

[22:14:33]

** rhollan notes his s/w build is almost done. **

[22:16:25]

justinh:

who knows, by the time my kids are old/ rich enough to leave home we may not even need physical displays etc anymore

[22:17:03]

rhollan:

Er, I happen to like an air gap between me and state propaganda.

[22:17:22]

justinh:

you watch state propaganda? heh

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[22:17:36]

rhollan:

No, and I *like* it that way.

[22:18:05]

rhollan:

but if we had internal hard wired feeds...

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sid3windr:

I bought some 32GB microSD cards a few weeks back and started thinking how many 360K floppies I'd need for that. And where to store them all... o_O

[23:35:01]

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[23:35:31]

rhollan:

Or 10 MB CDC Hawk drives.

[23:35:57]

rhollan:

You'd need 3200 of them.

[23:36:03]

rhollan:

Or an array 40x80

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[23:37:37]

rhollan:

http://www.recycledgoods.com/product/7302-cdc . . . ve-for-parts

[23:38:06]

rhollan:

Each is about 24"Wx36"Dx36"H and weighs 260 lbs

[23:39:01]

rhollan:

So that's 24"x80 wide by 36"x40 deep or 160 feet wide by 120 feet deep by 3 feet high.

[23:39:25]

rhollan:

Weighing 416 tons

[23:39:55]

rhollan:

Taking about 4.8 MW to spin all of them up at the same time

[23:40:44]

rhollan:

costing $2,418,912 in todays money for scrap.

[23:41:11]

rhollan:

Or $44,800,000 when new

[23:42:16]

rhollan:

You realise that Samsung now has 1T mSATA drives (for around $475)

[23:42:44]

rhollan:

The size of a postage stamp

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