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| [13:56:46] | dmz: | howdy y'all, my cable company is switching to digital cable; any recommendations on best tuner device/card to look at? |
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| [15:04:24] | wagnerrp: | dmz: what cable company? |
| [15:11:28] | dmz: | small southern monopoly :) |
| [15:11:45] | dmz: | called hargray, i live in a town of about 15k people, they control cable, internet & telephone |
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| [15:29:30] | sphery: | dmz: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable , and in general, Clear QAM (unencrypted digital) is disappearing across the country, leaving CableCARD as an option (but only viable if your cable company marks everything as "copy freely"--anything else is unusable with F/LOSS--or analog capture (via ivtv/PVR-x50 for SDTV recording or HD-PVR for HDTV recording) |
| [15:31:12] | sphery: | you'd have to find out specifically what your cable company is rolling out/switching to (i.e. are they really switching to digital or are they switching from digital, unencrypted (Clear QAM) to digital, encrypted (requiring everyone to have switched digital adapters or digital tuning adapters)) |
| [15:32:19] | sphery: | and if they're going all encrypted, how do they mark shows across various channels (copy freely, copy once, copy never) and can you live without those shows that are not copy freely |
| [15:32:44] | dmz: | yeah they don't have any card system i can use so i'll have to get some cable boxes |
| [15:33:09] | devinheitmueller: | dmz: they are almost certainly required to support CableCard. |
| [15:33:13] | devinheitmueller: | (by FCC regulation) |
| [15:33:13] | dmz: | i've tried to work with them before and they want to encrypt it and force people to use their pvr |
| [15:33:26] | dmz: | unless you have the reg # i won't get anything w/them |
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| [15:33:37] | dmz: | i have their legal counsel email address from prior communications |
| [15:34:10] | devinheitmueller: | Call them up and tell them you own a Tivo. They'll give you a CableCard. |
| [15:34:42] | dmz: | can cablecard do only 1 channel at a time? |
| [15:34:46] | sphery: | fwiw, this seems to imply they support CableCARD: http://www.hargray.com/residential/television . . . sion-details |
| [15:34:48] | devinheitmueller: | It can do up to 6. |
| [15:34:52] | wagnerrp: | it can do one device at a time |
| [15:35:01] | sphery: | $4.99/mo for SDTV or $9.99/mo for HDTV |
| [15:35:02] | devinheitmueller: | (depending on the number of tuners you have) |
| [15:35:03] | wagnerrp: | the devices have 2, 3, 4, or 6 tuners, depending on the device |
| [15:35:18] | sphery: | I'm guessing these are actually m-cards, and support multiple tuners per cablecard |
| [15:35:23] | wagnerrp: | DCR-2650 has two, HDHomeRun Prime has 3, InfiniTV can have 4 or 6 |
| [15:36:03] | dmz: | is a cable card a pci card? |
| [15:36:27] | sphery: | (see bottom of page I linked, under "Cable Cards", versus the trademarked name "CableCARD") |
| [15:36:32] | sphery: | dmz: also, see http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights |
| [15:36:36] | dmz: | any particular tuner you'd recommend to use with them |
| [15:36:38] | dmz: | cool thanks |
| [15:36:44] | sphery: | technically, cablecard is pcmcia, but you can't use it in a PC |
| [15:36:46] | sphery: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD |
| [15:36:55] | sphery: | (at least not with F/LOSS) |
| [15:38:33] | sphery: | you have to have a cablecard-compatible device that accepts the cablecard--i.e. the cablecard plugs directly into the Ceton InfiniTV PCIe card or directly into the Silicon Dust HDHomeRun Prime ethernet-connected capture device (which is, basically a "closed" computer in and of itself) |
| [15:38:41] | sphery: | at least that's my understanding |
| [15:39:19] | sphery: | dmz: remember, though, that although CableCARD is supported by your cable provider, it may not be usable with F/LOSS (such as MythTV) |
| [15:39:55] | sphery: | if they mark things as "copy once" for example, you must use a cable labs certified system for recording--including TiVo or Windows MCE |
| [15:40:21] | sphery: | but any open software can never be certified because if the software is open, you can simply remove the parts that restrict copying |
| [15:41:47] | sphery: | make sure you read http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable#CableCARD , and then check with (ideally) other (MythTV) users who have the same cable provider |
| [15:42:19] | dmz: | not many tech people in area so doubt there are any other myth users using hargray |
| [15:42:39] | dmz: | mostly retired executives & folks from ohio and lawn care maintenance / home builder folks |
| [15:43:01] | sphery: | or at least verify the way they mark channels using a cable-company STB (and a lot of internet research to figure out how to find which flag is present using the STB to which you have access) |
| [15:43:43] | sphery: | and note that technically, the flag is per-show, so they may broadcast a show on Discovery HD as copy freely, then mark a different one on the same channel as copy once |
| [15:43:59] | sphery: | and premium channels will almost certainly be copy once or copy never--things like HBO |
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| [15:45:15] | sphery: | so they're probably only recordable using analog capture (such as the HD-PVR, or various ivtv-based devices if you're OK recording them to (low-quality) standard definition/NTSC) |
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| [15:48:45] | sphery: | oh, and welcome to the world of confusion the content redistributors use to ensure you only access their content using their equipment--get used to swimming upstream ;) |
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| [15:53:35] | dmz: | i wouldn't mind if i could get it all working :) i'm kinda happy with my pvr500 + cable box & irblaster (they lock the firewire) but i don't really want a stack of cable boxes but will if that's the only solution:) |
| [15:55:59] | dmz: | and i don't really care about premium channels, i don't subscribe to them anyway :) |
| [15:58:32] | wagnerrp: | it all comes down to what your provider marks as DRM'd |
| [15:58:46] | wagnerrp: | the mention of premium channels is just one example of how Comcast and Verizon operate |
| [15:58:58] | wagnerrp: | premiums are protected, but everything else is copy-freely |
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| [18:45:41] | rhollan_: | As a data point: Comcast in Snohomish County marks all non-premium conntent (Basic and Expanded Cable) copy freely. It IS encrypted, but an M-Card Cable Card in a Silicon Dust HD Homerun Prime can deal with it fine, up to three channels at onece. Of course, YMMV with your cable company. |
| [18:46:16] | rhollan_: | It might be that the only way to find out is to get a HD Homerun, an M-Card and try it. Worst case, you're out $150 or so for the HDHR3-CC |
| [18:47:59] | wagnerrp: | some cable boxes can be put into a debug mode that will report the CC code |
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| [19:12:57] | rhollan_: | In other news, I've got the On-Demand side of things handled with the XBOX 360 Xfinity On-Demand App. |
| [19:13:24] | rhollan_: | Not sure if the XBOX turns on HDCP on that stuff, though. Would be interesting to find out. |
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| [22:06:47] | monkeypet: | there is no 720i broadcast right? only 720p |
| [22:07:29] | wagnerrp: | correct |
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| [22:50:51] | Bublik2002: | anyone switch from a windows media center pvr solution to mythtv? |
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| [22:51:30] | wagnerrp: | do you have some specific question? |
| [22:51:35] | wagnerrp: | IRC is often not the most responsive |
| [22:51:45] | wagnerrp: | so if you "ask to ask", it may take a long time to get a meaningful response |
| [22:52:41] | Bublik2002: | i just want to find out how they compare.. because i love how my windows box streams all my livetv/recordings to the xbox 360's around my house and it works great... but i would prefer to run linux on my desktop instead... just wondering how mythtv compares |
| [22:53:06] | wagnerrp: | as i understand it, MCE will _only_ stream to xbox 360s |
| [22:53:16] | wagnerrp: | it does not offer any form of clustering from PC to PC |
| [22:53:49] | Bublik2002: | well i only need to play my live tv/recordings on my desktop and tv's around the house |
| [22:53:53] | wagnerrp: | mythtv is basically the opposite. it offers clustering from PC to PC, but support of external hardware players is through a very limited UPnP interface |
| [22:54:12] | wagnerrp: | there are two separate applications, mythfrontend and mythbackend |
| [22:54:26] | Bublik2002: | so is there a way to have a similar setup in linux using somethign other than xbox 360s |
| [22:54:37] | wagnerrp: | you can run one or more backends on different systems to record and store tv (you need one to operate as the master) |
| [22:54:47] | wagnerrp: | you can run one or more frontends on different systems to play back that content |
| [22:57:26] | Bublik2002: | what can i plug into my tv that will be able to stream the stuff from my server? |
| [22:57:43] | wagnerrp: | a PC |
| [22:58:13] | Bublik2002: | anything other than a pc? like a set top box? |
| [22:58:19] | wagnerrp: | do understand that a suitable PC can be smaller, and use considerably less power, than one of your xboxes |
| [22:58:22] | Bublik2002: | something that doesnt draw much power |
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| [23:00:08] | rhollan_: | I use a Zotac BOX ID-41 as a combined FE/BE, with a 3T hard drive. It CERTAINLY can function as a FE only with a small flash drive. Renders 1080p just fine. |
| [23:00:29] | rhollan_: | I think the XBOX can also be used as a FE via DNLA (UPnP) |
| [23:00:55] | wagnerrp: | there were issues in the past with the xbox and upnp |
| [23:01:19] | wagnerrp: | i don't recall off hand what they were |
| [23:01:41] | Bublik2002: | how does myth compare to xbmc+tvheadend? |
| [23:01:42] | wagnerrp: | issues with the xbox doing their own thing rather than following the standard, and us not wanting to specifically target them |
| [23:01:56] | wagnerrp: | never used it |
| [23:02:10] | wagnerrp: | however at least in the past, xbmc has traditionally been intended for use as a standalone device |
| [23:02:41] | rhollan_: | xbmc can use mythtv as a backend |
| [23:03:02] | Bublik2002: | rhollan: are there any advantages to it over tvheadend? |
| [23:04:29] | rhollan_: | er, I have a mythtv BE? |
| [23:04:35] | wagnerrp: | never used it, can't comment |
| [23:06:22] | rhollan_: | AFAIK tvheadend offers A/V streaming. Mythtv to XBMC offers PVR functionality and is currently supported via the PVR addon |
| [23:06:39] | rhollan_: | Dunno if tvheadend can pause live TV, or record. |
| [23:06:56] | wagnerrp: | but that would merely be an xbmc limitation, not a mythtv one |
| [23:07:26] | rhollan_: | Dunno. AFAIK xmc uses the PVR functions of the backend to pause. So, it "punts". |
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| [23:09:10] | rhollan_: | as for XBOX and mythtv upnp, there are supposedly patches to make the XBOX happy: https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9632 |
| [23:09:52] | rhollan_: | But the XBOX is picky about file extensions and formats. It will play WMV and *supposedly* MPEG2 with the right file extension. |
| [23:10:40] | Bublik2002: | ok thanks |
| [23:12:34] | rhollan_: | I would really like to see good UPnP support for the XBOX 360 as that is what I use to get On-Demand content and it would be nice if it was also a FE |
| [23:12:43] | rhollan_: | so I would not have to switch TV inputs |
| [23:17:30] | wagnerrp: | there's a limit to how "good" upnp can ever get |
| [23:17:38] | wagnerrp: | it's never going to be up to par with a proper frontend |
| [23:18:08] | rhollan_: | Well, that's true. |
| [23:21:50] | rhollan_: | But it is ubiquitious |
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| [23:24:33] | monkeypet: | rhollan: at one point, i was booting xbox into xebian and launched the frontend on it. |
| [23:24:51] | monkeypet: | rhollan: a long time ago though. |
| [23:24:55] | wagnerrp: | original xbox |
| [23:25:00] | wagnerrp: | and standard definition content only |
| [23:25:16] | monkeypet: | yup, it was years ago, standard def. |
| [23:25:19] | rhollan_: | yeah. No way to put a FW on a 360 or One |
| [23:25:24] | wagnerrp: | and the old ui that would (with difficulty) actually run on a system with 64MB of memory |
| [23:25:28] | rhollan_: | Well, no *easy* way |
| [23:27:22] | monkeypet: | Anyone remember if we can set the watched flag globally so that all frontends see it? |
| [23:28:29] | wagnerrp: | i believe the watched flag is always global |
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