| Tuesday, February 11th, 2014, 00:03 UTC | ||
| [00:03:24] | wagnerrp: | pretty sure i left my wallet at work |
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| [00:03:30] | wagnerrp: | my wallet contains my badge to get into work |
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| [01:46:02] | Korny: | where is the softbuffer setting again? |
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| [02:16:49] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: easy – just show the security guard your ID to get a ... OOHHHHHH.... WAIT... |
| [02:16:50] | skd5aner: | ;) |
| [02:17:52] | Hydr0p0nX: | you have a security guard? |
| [02:17:56] | skd5aner: | Korny: soft buffer? as in soft-pading for recordings? |
| [02:18:11] | Korny: | yeah I found it :) |
| [02:18:48] | Hydr0p0nX: | I had some terrible issues |
| [02:18:48] | skd5aner: | Hydr0p0nX: most medium and large corporations have a security guard or a security department, if they issue access badges |
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| [02:19:19] | Hydr0p0nX: | skd5aner, I work for a global financial software company and we don't have them anymore |
| [02:19:33] | Hydr0p0nX: | they were relieved a few years back |
| [02:19:34] | sphery: | actually, properly called the "placebo" setting |
| [02:20:01] | skd5aner: | ignore sphery, he's bitter now |
| [02:20:02] | skd5aner: | ;) |
| [02:20:12] | sphery: | :) |
| [02:20:20] | sphery: | we'll see who's bitter when the setting disappears |
| [02:20:41] | skd5aner: | Hydr0p0nX: global financial software company? as in, what kind of financial software? |
| [02:20:45] | sphery: | (and then we'll see who's backing away, tail-tucked when they realize that they're still getting everything they got before :) |
| [02:21:15] | sphery: | (granted, won't be disappearing for a while because too many have a psychological addition to the placebo) |
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| [02:21:37] | Hydr0p0nX: | backoffice stuff :) |
| [02:21:38] | skd5aner: | sphery: works well for me, it only is limited if you have an excessive number of back-to-back rules, or a small number of tuners, or both |
| [02:21:58] | skd5aner: | sphery: I like it, I'd say 95% of my recordings leverage soft-padding without issue |
| [02:22:16] | skd5aner: | and the other 5%, oh well... I just don't get the softpadding – no loss |
| [02:22:21] | wagnerrp: | nah, this is just a door key |
| [02:22:30] | wagnerrp: | i just need to show up at the same time as someone else |
| [02:22:31] | sphery: | but the point is it shouldn't be a setting because no one needs more than a few seconds of it |
| [02:22:43] | sphery: | and if they do, they /should/ be telling the scheduler |
| [02:23:02] | sphery: | and--due to Murphy--if you rely on it, you won't get it when you need it |
| [02:23:06] | wagnerrp: | or even a few minutes |
| [02:23:16] | wagnerrp: | because the extra storage space really doesn't matter that much |
| [02:23:22] | wagnerrp: | especially if you're going to clip it afterwards |
| [02:23:23] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: I used to work for a company that had badged entry access, and not too long after 9/11, they stationed guards at every door (dozens across a campus) to make sure people badged themselves in and didn't "tailgate" |
| [02:23:32] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: efficiency at it's finest |
| [02:23:43] | sphery: | no, storage space doesn't matter, but why record 3 min of the previous show |
| [02:23:53] | sphery: | again, if the schedule is wrong, you should tell the scheduler |
| [02:24:02] | sphery: | it all comes down to "tell the scheduler" |
| [02:24:17] | wagnerrp: | because there's no real harm in doing so |
| [02:24:42] | wagnerrp: | add dummy flags that make the frontend automatically skip over those parts unless the user tells it to rewind |
| [02:25:04] | sphery: | and if people spent 1/10 of the time they spend arguing about how "soft padding (which we don't have) saved me" instead telling the scheduler "I like this and really want the first part, so record a min--or several--early", they'd never be saved by "soft padding" because they'd never need saving |
| [02:25:22] | skd5aner: | sphery: what's wrong with having an optional buffer? |
| [02:25:41] | sphery: | it's like saying, "I ran out full speed into a mine field and got saved by the defective trigger on a mine" |
| [02:25:46] | skd5aner: | sometimes networks are off by a few seconds, or overruns |
| [02:25:51] | sphery: | if you don't put yourself in that situation, there's no needing saving |
| [02:26:05] | sphery: | yes, and we will hav ea few seconds |
| [02:26:10] | sphery: | but there's no reason for >1min |
| [02:26:28] | wagnerrp: | so i order an opteron and a gob of RAM, and find out bhyve only runs on intel hardware |
| [02:26:29] | sphery: | that's what the "time to start early/end late...(min)" setting is for |
| [02:26:30] | wagnerrp: | whoops |
| [02:27:04] | skd5aner: | I like it to record a bit before and a bit after, but if the tuner is needed elsewhere – record the other show, and I'll sacrafice the 90 seconds of soft-padding overrun that would have otherwise caused a conflict that might not have allowed the other recoring to take place :P |
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| [02:27:09] | skd5aner: | I don't get why that's a bad idea? |
| [02:27:25] | sphery: | anyway, I never get saved by "soft padding" (or even by "Time to record before start of show (secs)") because my scheduler /knows/ what to record and when |
| [02:27:39] | skd5aner: | I do have 2 rules where I explicitely set an overrun amount, becuase they are always over... |
| [02:27:40] | sphery: | (meaning I have start early/end late specified on recording rules where approrpaite |
| [02:27:44] | sphery: | and I never have conflicts |
| [02:27:47] | skd5aner: | which, is what anyone should do |
| [02:28:00] | sphery: | and, especially today--with multirec--others would find they don't either |
| [02:28:10] | skd5aner: | ok, you guys read and respond way to quickly... I need to read to catch up :) |
| [02:29:16] | sphery: | and if the tuner is needed elsewhere, you should be doing manual conflict resolution--at which point you could tell it, "record 2min extra on this one because it's important, and 2min late on this one because I don't care about its start" |
| [02:29:52] | sphery: | versus, "oh, well I missed the very important end of this show because I didn't get any overrecord, but at least I got the useless beginning of this other show..." |
| [02:30:39] | sphery: | (and it shouldn't happen often at all--especially with multirec) |
| [02:30:40] | skd5aner: | As an FYI – I hate how "soft padding" allows you to use seconds (good behaior), but the "hard padding" in rules is only minute based |
| [02:31:18] | sphery: | well, it would be better to change the scheduler start early/end late than have people abuse the tuner start up setting |
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| [02:31:36] | sphery: | there's no reason it /has/ to be min--it only is because that's the way it was done |
| [02:31:49] | skd5aner: | but, it IS that way |
| [02:31:50] | wagnerrp: | easy enough to change |
| [02:31:59] | skd5aner: | and it's been that way for 12 years |
| [02:32:02] | sphery: | but don't argue " |
| [02:32:18] | skd5aner: | No, that was a side note... |
| [02:32:26] | sphery: | we need this because it's useful and it saves me", argue, "we should change this one to seconds, and allow fine-grained tuning at the scheduler level" |
| [02:32:29] | sphery: | :) |
| [02:32:38] | skd5aner: | I still believe that "softpading" or whatever you care to refer to it as, makes sense to me... and I enjoy that feature |
| [02:33:19] | skd5aner: | and I wish, as wagnerrp said, we could possibly "flag" those points of the actual schedule time, so that we could skip past/ignore those sections, like a commflag, but it's nice to have them |
| [02:33:27] | sphery: | 5 page thread that says otherwise: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/195124 |
| [02:33:44] | wagnerrp: | i know it's something that has been brought up before |
| [02:33:48] | skd5aner: | once it gets on the forum I'll participate ;) |
| [02:33:58] | sphery: | and if I knew how to find it, I'd link to the broken softpad branch that says otherwise |
| [02:34:24] | sphery: | skd5aner: you can flag them--there's a commercial detection method for that |
| [02:35:15] | sphery: | but, since you set your setting to 90s, just hit 1-right-right (or right-right-right), assuming 30s skip forward :) |
| [02:35:20] | skd5aner: | btw, to make sure I'm talking aobut the same thing as you, I'm referring that "Soft-padding" = "time to record before/after start/end of show (secs)" |
| [02:35:41] | sphery: | right, "time to record before/after start/end of show (secs)" is the setting we have (that we shouldn't) |
| [02:35:47] | wagnerrp: | correct, that operates outside the confines of the scheduler |
| [02:35:59] | sphery: | instead, we should have the start early/end late scheduler times (in the recording rules) |
| [02:36:01] | wagnerrp: | as opposed to the minutes on recording rules which operates within the scheduler |
| [02:36:16] | sphery: | which could be changed to seconds if someone wanted to |
| [02:36:21] | skd5aner: | and, most people don't WANT to do manual conflict resolution – I used to do that, and I haven't done it in years, even though i still get conflicts, unless it's something really important to me – I generally rely on good rule priorities... |
| [02:37:00] | skd5aner: | which is why softpadding is a good arguement to help ensure that extra recordings doesn't cause a second recording to not record simply because you wanted an extra 10 second buffer at the end "just in case" |
| [02:37:08] | sphery: | no, because it doesn't work |
| [02:37:14] | sphery: | you get no padding |
| [02:37:16] | sphery: | you just get shows |
| [02:37:17] | skd5aner: | why doens't it? maybe that's what i odn't understand |
| [02:37:18] | sphery: | both shows |
| [02:37:21] | sphery: | and lose parts |
| [02:37:26] | sphery: | unless you don't need the padding |
| [02:37:31] | sphery: | in which case, why do you have the padding |
| [02:37:50] | wagnerrp: | soft padding only works the way you describe if there are no back-to-back recordings |
| [02:38:01] | wagnerrp: | in which case hard padding would work equally well and not produce conflicts |
| [02:38:13] | sphery: | exactly |
| [02:38:26] | sphery: | in all other cases, you have no padding |
| [02:38:44] | sphery: | which means if you don't have to do conflict resolution and everything is hunky dory, you don't need the padding |
| [02:38:51] | skd5aner: | man, my wife and baby and TV are WAY to distracting for me to participate in this discussion!!! :D |
| [02:39:03] | sphery: | hehe |
| [02:39:16] | sphery: | anyway, better argument for after that setting disappears |
| [02:39:41] | sphery: | I'm working on my big-bang-grade flame-retardant suit before then, though |
| [02:40:11] | sphery: | I'm thinking of going with blue, polyester leisure suit style--with extra asbestos |
| [02:40:59] | skd5aner: | ok... give me a sec here... bare with me |
| [02:41:13] | skd5aner: | if I'm wrong, I want to be educated... I don't want to assume something that I thought I was certain about... |
| [02:41:25] | skd5aner: | So... one at a time... |
| [02:41:34] | skd5aner: | scenario: 1 tuner... |
| [02:41:41] | ** sphery champs at the bit ** | |
| [02:41:52] | skd5aner: | champs or chomps? |
| [02:41:59] | sphery: | pretty sure it's champs |
| [02:42:04] | sphery: | though most probably say chomp |
| [02:42:11] | bill6502: | must have been a soft padded "sec" |
| [02:42:30] | wagnerrp: | it's chomps |
| [02:42:33] | sphery: | champ: To bite or chew upon noisily. See Synonyms at bite. |
| [02:42:43] | wagnerrp: | oh, i guess it could be champ |
| [02:42:43] | sphery: | http://www.thefreedictionary.com/champ |
| [02:42:48] | wagnerrp: | never heard that term before |
| [02:42:57] | skd5aner: | yea... ok, that was a nice little detour at the START OF THE DISCUSSION |
| [02:42:58] | skd5aner: | lol |
| [02:42:59] | skd5aner: | :) |
| [02:43:02] | skd5aner: | so, 1 tuner... |
| [02:43:05] | sphery: | it's the original, based on horses before races, I think |
| [02:43:09] | sphery: | hehe |
| [02:43:22] | sphery: | http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/champ+at+the+bit |
| [02:43:24] | skd5aner: | I have a 2 rules set up, one to record from 8:00–8:30 and another from 8:30–9:00 on the same network/channel |
| [02:43:50] | wagnerrp: | with soft padding, there will be no padding at the end of the first, or the beginning of the second |
| [02:43:53] | sphery: | http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/champ_at_the_bit |
| [02:43:55] | skd5aner: | If I set up recording rules for both, to record on the boundaries... |
| [02:43:57] | wagnerrp: | but there will be padding on either side |
| [02:44:33] | wagnerrp: | with hard padding, the one with higher priority will record, and the other will attempt to reschedule for a later date |
| [02:44:34] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: right... thats if the setting "time to record before/after" settings are set |
| [02:44:37] | wagnerrp: | both will get padding at those times |
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| [02:44:50] | sphery: | all right, so far |
| [02:44:54] | skd5aner: | ok, that was my EXACT understanding... |
| [02:45:08] | sphery: | which means if it's good without padding, you don't need the padding there |
| [02:45:18] | skd5aner: | so, what am I missing there? IN that scenario, both recordings record, there is no conflict, and I "lose" the softpadding between (of course) |
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| [02:45:51] | wagnerrp: | if you had need to pad the shows, because they were behind schedule, you lost the end of the first show |
| [02:46:06] | skd5aner: | sphery: why assume that? |
| [02:46:13] | wagnerrp: | if they were ahead of scheduler, you need to watch part of the second show at the end of the first |
| [02:46:32] | wagnerrp: | well... you lost the beginning of the first |
| [02:46:34] | sphery: | skd5aner: because you got no padding at end of first or beginning of second and you're happy |
| [02:46:39] | skd5aner: | sphery: that asusmption means that evey network is reliable, and broadcasts EXACTLY to the second of the advertised scehdule... |
| [02:46:42] | wagnerrp: | assuming they were on different muxes, and thus multierec could not be used |
| [02:47:10] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: the point is that if you need padding, and use soft padding, you will get partial recordings |
| [02:47:18] | sphery: | yes, well said |
| [02:47:29] | wagnerrp: | if you use hard padding, you will get two complete showings, under the assumption that there is a re-airing at some point |
| [02:47:38] | wagnerrp: | the consequence is that there may simply be no re-airing |
| [02:47:38] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: I understand that... but I'd rather sacrafice potential padding, then lose the second recording. You assume it will re-air and also won't have a conflict when it does |
| [02:47:43] | wagnerrp: | and you lose the lower priority showing |
| [02:48:15] | sphery: | excellent discussion of champ/chomp at the bit-- http://grammarist.com/usage/champing-chomping-at-the-bit/ |
| [02:48:31] | skd5aner: | we've lost sphery... he's going to look up idioms |
| [02:48:40] | sphery: | both "champ" and "chomp" can mean to bite or chew noisily, but chomp normally implies the thing is eaten :) |
| [02:49:31] | sphery: | seems chomp is about 20x more common, now, because English has mostly lost the usage of "champ" in a biting sense, in spite of the "eaten" part |
| [02:49:36] | sphery: | needed to know |
| [02:49:46] | wagnerrp: | so, as you understood, the two options are two partial recordings, where you may have lost the finale to one, or two complete recordings, where you may lose the lower priority one in its entirety |
| [02:50:12] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: pretty much... |
| [02:50:34] | sphery: | and if there's no re-airing, you can manually resolve conflict and get partial recordings--with the more /important/ part of the 2 shows |
| [02:51:03] | skd5aner: | I guess I just don't understand – why is a pre/post softpad a bad thing? It's just a safety net, which is very nice to have |
| [02:51:12] | sphery: | which means you get a 3rd option--that's specifically /called out/ for you--when using scheduler start early/end late |
| [02:51:21] | skd5aner: | and, do away with the safetynet when you expect something else to record |
| [02:51:25] | sphery: | you simply have to say which path to take when it's flagged by a conflict |
| [02:51:37] | sphery: | and that 3rd option is great |
| [02:51:39] | skd5aner: | in the case where certain recordings are consistently off, then explicitely define a hard pad and be done with it |
| [02:51:46] | wagnerrp: | so at least my stance is that since there's no real harm in soft padding if the user understands what is happening, besides additional storage space used, it should "just happen", and there's no reason for user control or even knowledge of it |
| [02:52:03] | wagnerrp: | hide the extra bits, but allow the user to access them manually |
| [02:52:11] | skd5aner: | sphery: that's assuming people care/want/know/are aware that their's a conflict to resolve |
| [02:52:20] | wagnerrp: | use that as an indicator that the user will probably want to add hard padding in the future |
| [02:52:25] | sphery: | I've often said, "don't need the beginning/end of this one, so it's still worth recording even without it" |
| [02:52:39] | skd5aner: | I don't have time to constantly look at my recordings every day to ensure there's no conflicts, and the only way I even remotely care to do that is with mythweb, which makes it easier to see the conflicts |
| [02:52:53] | sphery: | I agree it should just happen |
| [02:53:00] | skd5aner: | OK... |
| [02:53:01] | sphery: | I think it should only happen for a reasonable amount |
| [02:53:04] | sphery: | < 1min |
| [02:53:08] | skd5aner: | I will totally agree with wagnerrp's statement |
| [02:53:11] | sphery: | I'd /prefer/ 15s |
| [02:53:15] | sphery: | I'd live with 30s |
| [02:53:23] | sphery: | I'd grudgingly accept 1min |
| [02:53:32] | sphery: | anything else is abuse |
| [02:53:35] | skd5aner: | So, it doesn't have to be user defined, or a configurable setting... |
| [02:53:36] | sphery: | and wasteful |
| [02:53:38] | sphery: | and doesn't help |
| [02:53:45] | sphery: | right, it will exist |
| [02:54:04] | skd5aner: | why do you think that? what exactly does it waste, besides disk space? |
| [02:54:20] | skd5aner: | and minimal other resources for commflagging, etc |
| [02:54:21] | sphery: | just won't allow people to set it to values of their choosing (without editing code and accepting the results if things break) |
| [02:54:29] | sphery: | so people won't abuse it with 600s or whatever |
| [02:54:39] | skd5aner: | My settings are 30 seconds for pre and 90 seconds for post... |
| [02:54:46] | sphery: | it mainly wastes good will |
| [02:54:50] | wagnerrp: | 600s is a bit excessive, but i wouldn't see a problem with 200–300 |
| [02:54:54] | skd5aner: | haha "good will" |
| [02:54:55] | skd5aner: | :) |
| [02:55:01] | sphery: | in that users think, "It /will/ get everything," then it doesn't |
| [02:55:08] | sphery: | then people b**** |
| [02:55:10] | wagnerrp: | which is why i suggest it is hidden |
| [02:55:16] | skd5aner: | sphery: 30 seconds because I can hit "right" once, and I'm essentailly at the begining |
| [02:55:17] | sphery: | and people say, "you should set a start early/end late" |
| [02:55:21] | skd5aner: | it might be 35 seconds, actually |
| [02:55:25] | sphery: | and people say, "but it should just do the right thing" |
| [02:55:26] | wagnerrp: | masked, such that the user has to willfully access it |
| [02:55:31] | sphery: | and other says, "what about soft padding" |
| [02:55:44] | wagnerrp: | so there is a clear indicator that something is wrong, and something should be done in the future |
| [02:55:45] | sphery: | and I say, "5 page thread says it doesn't work: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/195124#195124 " |
| [02:55:53] | sphery: | and I hate saying that :) |
| [02:56:35] | sphery: | any setting should be user visible |
| [02:56:49] | sphery: | no need for "hidden/poke it directly in" settings |
| [02:57:14] | sphery: | so as long as it's a setting/configurable without editing code, it should stay in settings pages |
| [02:57:37] | skd5aner: | sphery: please know, I appreciate your opinion here... and I rarely flat out disagree with you, but I just don't get why this is such a big deal to argue against? |
| [02:57:59] | skd5aner: | perhaps you're 100% right, that people don't get it or misuse it based on their lack of understanding... |
| [02:58:08] | skd5aner: | I fully understand it, and I appreciate it and love it... |
| [02:58:15] | sphery: | because I hate to see people addicted to a placebo :) |
| [02:58:27] | sphery: | they think it's more useful than it is |
| [02:58:36] | skd5aner: | I have 0 desire to put "hard" padding on every single individual rule (or by default) and cause tuner contention |
| [02:58:47] | sphery: | but you don't need it on every single |
| [02:59:25] | sphery: | I have it on maybe 5–8 (of 60-ish) and never miss beginnings/ends--except for sports overruns, which mean I miss 45min+ or whatever |
| [02:59:29] | skd5aner: | I hear, that some countries are notorious for having broadcasters that could care less about boundaries and are often off by minutes |
| [02:59:36] | sphery: | yes |
| [02:59:40] | skd5aner: | but, it can vary |
| [02:59:43] | sphery: | in which case, those Australians need more tuners |
| [02:59:56] | sphery: | because unscheduled padding doesn't work for them |
| [03:00:19] | sphery: | they end up recording 2 shows at scheduled times and missing the parts that are out-of-schedule |
| [03:01:00] | Metoer (Metoer!metoer@77.68.145.221) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) | |
| [03:01:01] | sphery: | and, note that by default (unless you "break" the scheduler with a setting), the scheduler keeps back-to-back recordings from the same channel on the same tuner |
| [03:01:16] | skd5aner: | well, there's lots of "things" I "need", but disposable income went out the window when my wife quit her career to be a career mom and we had 2 children on 1 income – I would guess that like me, many people who could benefit from an additional tuner simply can't justify more $$$ in to their myth setups :) |
| [03:01:27] | sphery: | meaning you'd get the first show, even after it runs late, but it's just written to the wrong recording file |
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| [03:02:02] | sphery: | so if someone feels, "hmm, yeah, since I'm recording from that channel, anyway, why can't it just record to both files," at which point we just need multirec |
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| [03:02:40] | sphery: | and if someone were to put in multirec for analog tuners, then it would reduce conflicts even for analog tuner users |
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| [03:02:54] | ** Korny regrets bringing up the soft padding question ** | |
| [03:03:01] | skd5aner: | So it's settled then... we keep the pre/post roll, hard code it to 300 seconds, flag it so it skips automatically, and call it a day? |
| [03:03:02] | Heliwr_ is now known as Heliwr | |
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| [03:03:04] | sphery: | /and/ those users would actually get their scheduled padding in both files |
| [03:03:18] | skd5aner: | and by we, I mean, I was part of the discussion and you do the work |
| [03:03:19] | skd5aner: | lol |
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| [03:03:23] | skd5aner: | ;) |
| [03:03:34] | sphery: | yeah, keep them, hard coded to 300 deciseconds, flag it so it skips automatically and call it a day |
| [03:03:57] | skd5aner: | multirec for analog tuners?? |
| [03:04:06] | sphery: | oh, and the flag it so it skips automatically is coming |
| [03:04:13] | sphery: | skd5aner: yeah, write to both files |
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| [03:04:51] | skd5aner: | I see |
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| [03:05:05] | Korny: | you could do that with HD homeruns too... |
| [03:05:10] | Korny: | not the primes |
| [03:05:20] | skd5aner: | you can already do it with HDHRs, that's what mutlirec does |
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| [03:05:30] | wagnerrp: | the HDHRs already have multirec |
| [03:05:33] | sphery: | then all the people who broke the scheduler with, "Avoid back to back recordings" (who are probably the people who are using the unscheduled padding) would just have to turn off that setting and they'd be good |
| [03:05:38] | wagnerrp: | there would only be purpose doing it to the primes |
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| [03:07:24] | ** sphery hopes he can sneak that deciseconds by the list as easily as he did here :) ** | |
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| [03:08:33] | skd5aner: | you did not sneak |
| [03:08:52] | skd5aner: | I just worked a 13 hour day, and then debate way too long on this subject – so, I let you have it |
| [03:08:54] | sphery: | hehe--thought I might have since no one called me out on it :) |
| [03:09:07] | sphery: | anyway, need to get some sleep |
| [03:09:11] | skd5aner: | me too |
| [03:09:14] | skd5aner: | night! |
| [03:09:25] | sphery: | thanks for the debate--it's good practice for my inevitable argument in the future |
| [03:09:34] | sphery: | later |
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| [03:09:56] | wagnerrp: | you actually writing up a post to the list? |
| [03:10:18] | sphery: | no |
| [03:10:32] | sphery: | I mean when a change goes in/in commit message/... |
| [03:10:43] | sphery: | though chances are it won't be me making the change |
| [03:10:52] | sphery: | I'll just be one of (maybe 2 :) arguing for it |
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| [03:11:04] | wagnerrp: | i'd at least make one to the internal list |
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| [03:11:35] | sphery: | ah |
| [03:11:58] | sphery: | I know gi gem is in the "make it a single value" camp, but a lot of others want to keep it |
| [03:12:30] | sphery: | I just hate that people rely on it when actually informing the scheduler when there's an issue would work much better for them |
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| [03:12:59] | sphery: | but there's a lot of inertia and people fear change (and are afraid to try doing it right before the change) |
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| [03:15:52] | sphery: | basically, I think people who are arguing for it don't tend to realize just how little use it's doing for them (they've never "tested" to see how often the padding is actually useful)--kind of like the people who say they can't have a system with a real CPU because the power usage is terrible even though they've never actually measured power usage |
| [03:16:17] | sphery: | anyway, sleep |
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| [04:00:55] | gnac: | Im using a Haupage HVR 2250 on MythTV 0.27. On a daily basis, the backend can no longer get a channel lock. |
| [04:01:07] | gnac: | I have found many people with the same problem online, but no apparent solutions. |
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| [04:01:41] | gnac: | The only drivers/firwmare I can find are over at kernel labs, but they are at least a version behind the windows drivers supplied by hauppage. |
| [04:02:04] | gnac: | Has anyone experiecnced this problem with this card on linux and been able to find a solution? |
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| [11:26:47] | sphery: | skd5aner: btw, do you agree that https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12044#comment:1 is a dup? Didn't want to close it in case I'm missing some critical difference. |
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| [13:59:29] | sphery: | wagnerrp_: it's simple math... A Samsung Exynos 6 2GHz octo-core = 2 x 8 = 16, a Qualcomm Snapdragon 805 2.5GHz quad-core = 2.5 x 4 = 10, a Core i7–4770K 3.5GHz quad-core = 3.5 x 4 = 14, therefore, the Exynos 6 is the best chip ;) |
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| [14:01:12] | wagnerrp_: | i might even be able to accept that logic, for tasks that are extremely parallel |
| [14:01:31] | wagnerrp_: | but we're talking about 1–4 cores of freescale A9 at 1GHz |
| [14:02:05] | sphery: | hehe |
| [14:02:31] | sphery: | yeah, people seem to focus on "ARM = low power", an /never/ actually measure anything |
| [14:02:39] | wagnerrp_: | PCs surpassed that in like 2005, with a single core |
| [14:02:47] | sphery: | so they think they have to use ARM or they're wasting money on electricity |
| [14:03:42] | sphery: | yeah, but mythtv has been around since 2001, so obviously you can run mythtv on a system like that |
| [14:04:02] | sphery: | now, why doesn't my 2014 high-bitrate HDTV work on this ARM? |
| [14:04:22] | sphery: | with my 2014 MythTV 0.27 |
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| [18:23:05] | Quantum`: | I want to get off nightlies and go back to 0.27. Is 0.27 running OK? |
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| [18:31:05] | Quantum`: | ... anyone running it can feel free to respond ... |
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| [18:32:47] | wagnerrp_: | you cannot revert |
| [18:33:00] | wagnerrp_: | schema updates only go forward, not in reverse |
| [18:33:21] | wagnerrp_: | the next time you can drop to a stable branch is when 0.28 is released |
| [18:36:22] | wagnerrp_: | Quantum`: ^^^ |
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| [18:47:35] | Quantum`: | wagnerrp_: I have backups of former schema. But is 0.27 running OK? |
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| [18:56:19] | stuartm: | there are some issues with IPTV |
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| [18:56:39] | stuartm: | but if you're not using IPTV, you should be fine |
| [18:56:58] | tgm4883_: | I'm having 0 issues with 0.27 |
| [19:03:55] | Quantum`: | I've lost track, are odd releases for testing and even ones for long-term support? |
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| [19:12:00] | stuartm: | no |
| [19:12:14] | Quantum`: | No? |
| [19:12:18] | tgm4883_: | no |
| [19:12:36] | Quantum`: | ... to one, t'other, or both? |
| [19:12:37] | stuartm: | we don't have 'testing' releases except for Release Candidates, and we don't have long-term support releases either, we only support the current release |
| [19:12:58] | stuartm: | the only supported release atm is 0.27 |
| [19:13:02] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, IIRC, that my at one point have been the rule for releases of the linux kernel, but I don't recall that ever being the case for mythtv |
| [19:13:42] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, the only supported release is 0.27 |
| [19:13:51] | stuartm: | and when 0.28 is released that will be the supported release, and 0.27 will be unsupported (we don't have a huge army of devs or support staff to support more than one release) |
| [19:14:14] | stuartm: | we do have point releases, e.g. 0.26.1, 0.26.2, and the forthcoming 0.27.1 |
| [19:14:29] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, now it's possible you are thinking about something along the lines of Mythbuntu support |
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| [19:17:23] | Quantum`: | I think it is the kernel I was thinking of. |
| [19:18:11] | ** Quantum` is afraid to ask when 0.27.1? ** | |
| [19:18:38] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, Are you running Ubuntu/Mythbuntu packages? |
| [19:18:45] | Quantum`: | No. |
| [19:18:52] | tgm4883_: | ok, then IDK |
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| [19:27:34] | stuartm: | Quantum`: could be as early as the end of this week, you can get the version that will become 0.27.1 through this link – https://www.mythtv.org/download/mythtv/0.27-fixes |
| [19:28:03] | stuartm: | that package is updated in real-time as fixes are made |
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| [19:28:57] | Quantum`: | stuartm: Ty. |
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| [19:30:03] | Quantum`: | Any way to tell how many database levels it's behind say, January's nightlies? |
| [19:31:12] | Quantum`: | (0.28 nightlies) |
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| [20:05:25] | Steve-Goodey: | Bother! I've gone and screwed up my remote control now. These low energy bulbs seem to interfere with the USB receiver. |
| [20:12:05] | wagnerrp_: | Quantum`: https://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/myth . . . ythversion.h https://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/myth . . . fixes%2F0.27 |
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| [20:17:36] | stuartm: | Steve-Goodey: here the IR receiver flashes when I first turn on the lights, but it doesn't seem to affect the reception of the remote signals and that flashing stops after a couple of minutes |
| [20:18:16] | stuartm: | although LED bulbs FTW, will be replacing these CFLs soon |
| [20:27:39] | justinh: | Steve-Goodey: maybe try an actual infrared filter over the USB receiver portal |
| [20:27:49] | Steve-Goodey: | stuartm: Yeah I noticed the first turn on lights thing as well. |
| [20:27:52] | justinh: | e.g. exposed photo film |
| [20:28:39] | Steve-Goodey: | Turning off the lights when programming helps but doing in the dark is just stupid. |
| [20:29:12] | stuartm: | ah, yeah might hurt when programming |
| [20:30:20] | Steve-Goodey: | My wife is looking at me doing this as if I'm mental. But thinks that most times. |
| [20:33:02] | Steve-Goodey: | If I go on the forum and pick and click on view unread posts I get a list which is fine. |
| [20:34:11] | Steve-Goodey: | Once I've gone on the first one in that list I can't seem to easily go back to that list without going to the forum main page. |
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| [20:34:55] | Quantum`: | I don't understand why not MythMote and a tablet. |
| [20:35:03] | Quantum`: | Rock solid. |
| [20:35:19] | justinh: | too big |
| [20:35:27] | Quantum`: | And I've rewritten MythMote for a dark 3D screen so it doesn't light up the room. |
| [20:35:34] | justinh: | batteries don't last as long either |
| [20:35:40] | stuartm: | no tactile feedback |
| [20:35:44] | justinh: | oh and it's UGLY |
| [20:35:59] | Quantum`: | Well I've fixed the ugly. |
| [20:36:13] | Quantum`: | I think the dev will be using my changes soon. |
| [20:36:14] | justinh: | stuartm: that too. I didn't realise how important that is |
| [20:36:23] | stuartm: | I don't have to look at my remote to use it, it fits comfortably in one hand and doesn't need charging once a day |
| [20:36:55] | Quantum`: | I tried setting up IRDA, but it broke with almost every distro update. |
| [20:36:58] | stuartm: | I like my tablet for other stuff, but not as a remote control |
| [20:37:14] | Quantum`: | I have a Trash can button. |
| [20:37:24] | Quantum`: | ... very useful. |
| [20:37:46] | stuartm: | Quantum`: IR remotes don't use IRDA, they use the RC5 protocol (same as TVs etc) |
| [20:38:03] | justinh: | Quantum`: what distro updates? I've not done any distro updates since I installed. I like the way the frontend just works all the time. ALL the time |
| [20:38:42] | Quantum`: | justinh: Debian dist-upgrades, which I do monthly, just wreaked havoc with my old remote. |
| [20:38:56] | justinh: | so don't do them. ever. |
| [20:39:02] | ** justinh doesn't :-) ** | |
| [20:39:13] | Quantum`: | lol, no concern for security? |
| [20:39:20] | justinh: | if you like stuff to just work ALL THE TIME (tm).. |
| [20:39:24] | justinh: | no |
| [20:39:39] | justinh: | no concern for somebody discoering the IP of my frontend or backend, getting into my router... |
| [20:39:48] | justinh: | stealing my teevee recording! PFFT |
| [20:39:54] | Quantum`: | Well I care about security, and my mythmote is rock-solid and beatiful. |
| [20:40:17] | stuartm: | or pick a better distro, anything that breaks applications with updates to the stable release isn't worth bothering with |
| [20:40:31] | stuartm: | not to mention Debian's packages are uselessly ancient |
| [20:40:53] | justinh: | I bet not many dist updates actually include many security patches anyway |
| [20:41:03] | Quantum`: | Oh I agree they're ancient. But I've tried most others and they have -more- drawbacks. |
| [20:41:14] | justinh: | Ubuntu for example. Oy |
| [20:41:38] | Quantum`: | Ubongo is a toy. And they've abandoned phones. |
| [20:41:46] | justinh: | I never thought it possible for any distro to get worse, but they keep doing it |
| [20:42:03] | justinh: | had they ever really *done* anything with phones? |
| [20:42:25] | Quantum`: | Yes. I think it was called "Touch". |
| [20:43:42] | stuartm: | they've only just started shipping devices and they've abandoned it? |
| [20:44:24] | justinh: | I'd sooner trust Google with my data than Amazon, who Canonical want to give it to |
| [20:45:18] | Quantum`: | No, their phone OS was for a number of regular phones running Android. |
| [20:45:21] | wagnerrp_: | rewritten for a dark 3D screen? i have no idea what that means |
| [20:45:43] | justinh: | interesting point though.. I've still not made up my mind which distro to go with for my next instakk |
| [20:45:47] | justinh: | *install |
| [20:45:48] | Quantum`: | The screen is dark instead of light, and the buttons are 3D. |
| [20:46:08] | wagnerrp_: | also, if you care about security, you really aught to not run mythtv... :) |
| [20:46:38] | Quantum`: | Well. I remote it through reverse ssh tunnels. |
| [20:46:44] | stuartm: | http://www.thinkdigit.com/Mobiles-PDAs/New-Ub . . . n_19341.html |
| [20:46:51] | Quantum`: | ... and the remote as well. |
| [20:47:05] | stuartm: | Juno is still working for Canonical? hah |
| [20:47:06] | wagnerrp_: | that sounds painful |
| [20:47:19] | Quantum`: | stuartm: So I guess that explains why they've abandoned the rest of us. |
| [20:47:19] | wagnerrp_: | but at least not as painful as trying to make the frontend function that way |
| [20:47:21] | justinh: | 19341? We'll all be dead in the year 19341 |
| [20:48:02] | wagnerrp_: | there was someone in here a few days ago who couldn't understand the fact that trying to fool the frontend into thinking the tunneled backend was local was causing all his problems |
| [20:48:04] | stuartm: | incidently, it's Jono, not Juno ... but I love that they've repeated that mistake throughout the article |
| [20:48:38] | Quantum`: | wagnerrp_: It works perfectly if you do it right. |
| [20:48:39] | justinh: | Juno Bakon. Top bloke, unlike the one whose name is spelled right |
| [20:49:00] | wagnerrp_: | not really |
| [20:49:09] | wagnerrp_: | there are shortcuts the frontend takes if it assumes the backend is local |
| [20:49:23] | wagnerrp_: | shortcuts that will break if the backend is not actually local |
| [20:49:55] | justinh: | LOL. what kind of first name is 'Silky' ? |
| [20:50:20] | Quantum`: | For all intents and purposes, it is local. |
| [20:50:48] | Quantum`: | It works great, and has for several years. |
| [20:51:12] | wagnerrp_: | for all networking purposes, it is local |
| [20:51:33] | justinh: | oo.. no java though. I love that about the ubuntu phone thing already |
| [20:51:39] | wagnerrp_: | for things like mysql, and file access, things aren't quite the same |
| [20:52:29] | stuartm: | wasn't google talking of moving away from java in android? |
| [20:52:36] | Quantum`: | mysql is also tunneled. |
| [20:52:47] | stuartm: | or was that just a very pleasant dream |
| [20:52:49] | justinh: | stuartm: I dunno. that'd be good too |
| [20:52:49] | stuartm: | ? |
| [20:53:28] | wagnerrp_: | but mysql attempts to access itself over the filesystem rather than the network if it believes it is local |
| [20:53:41] | Quantum`: | O hell, 0.28 database is 1321 and 0.27.1 is 1317. What a PITA. |
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| [20:54:23] | stuartm: | knowing google though, they'd just move from Java to something that looks exactly like java, works exactly like java but just isn't called java |
| [20:54:31] | justinh: | Quantum`: so? versions have always had differing schemas.. hence the age old rule about not mixing versions |
| [20:54:41] | Quantum`: | mysql accepts client requests through its port, and responds on the remote server back to that port. |
| [20:54:55] | wagnerrp_: | justinh: he wants to drop back to -fixes, and missed the window to do so |
| [20:55:05] | Quantum`: | justinh: it's just a pita to go back to 0.27.1. |
| [20:55:51] | justinh: | I've not long finished setting up a bunch of bloody awful java server apps on a box at work. A fresh database, on a 2.8Ghz core 2 duo box – should *not* be taking the likes of 10 minutes to initialise |
| [20:55:54] | stuartm: | Quantum`: why do you need to go back? |
| [20:56:12] | Quantum`: | Having problems with trunk. |
| [20:56:34] | stuartm: | such as? Anything we don't know about? (ticket) |
| [20:56:36] | justinh: | so restore the backup of the DB you took before you installed trunk |
| [20:57:29] | stuartm: | justinh: backups are created automatically these days |
| [20:57:41] | Quantum`: | The theme (mythbuntu) doesn't look anything like it should. Looks the old way. In set recordings by title, the slect bar is too high. And more. |
| [20:57:44] | justinh: | oh, so no need for my sanctimony? heheh |
| [20:58:27] | Quantum`: | justinh: Yes I'll have to do that, but throw out all current recordings, and delete all the ones that database still thinks are there. |
| [20:58:38] | stuartm: | a full backup is created before every schema upgrade |
| [20:59:09] | justinh: | stuartm: that's been done for a long while – but I still always do it myself first |
| [20:59:12] | Quantum`: | I take backups weekly anyway, specifically of the database as well. |
| [20:59:21] | justinh: | weekly? nightly here |
| [20:59:39] | justinh: | I've only ever needed to use it once – when / got almost full up.. but boy did I ever need it |
| [20:59:53] | Quantum`: | Weekly is all I need. I don't want a thousand zfs snapshots to build up. |
| [20:59:55] | stuartm: | not a competition |
| [21:00:32] | justinh: | you trust zfs on linux for primetime.. fair enough |
| [21:00:47] | wagnerrp_: | taking a ZFS snapshot of database storage is little different from forcefully crashing the database |
| [21:00:47] | Quantum`: | That is correct. I do. |
| [21:00:54] | wagnerrp_: | you do not want to be recovering from a filesystem snapshot |
| [21:01:29] | wagnerrp_: | if you shut down the database, snapshot, and then start it back up, that would work |
| [21:01:35] | Quantum`: | No I take the database backup as it says in the wiki. Shut down the server, etc. |
| [21:01:47] | wagnerrp_: | which wiki? |
| [21:01:57] | Quantum`: | Myth wiki. Where are we? |
| [21:02:12] | wagnerrp_: | the mythtv wiki should describe how to do a live backup from an operating server |
| [21:02:20] | wagnerrp_: | shutting down the server should not be part of the instructions |
| [21:02:34] | Quantum`: | Don't really remember, but I do it as recommended for a coherent database. |
| [21:02:47] | Quantum`: | Shutting down the Myth server is. |
| [21:03:06] | Quantum`: | IDK why it's still called a 'backend'. |
| [21:03:14] | Quantum`: | Ancient. |
| [21:03:18] | justinh: | mysqldump, not anything else |
| [21:03:33] | wagnerrp_: | no one would use mysql if you had to take down the server to perform a backup |
| [21:03:49] | justinh: | Quantum`: because you haven't been elected project leader yet? |
| [21:03:58] | wagnerrp_: | and it's called the backend because... it's the end that works in the background |
| [21:04:09] | wagnerrp_: | as opposed to the end that works in the foreground |
| [21:05:00] | ** justinh is silly & gets annoyed at people calling the likes of XBMC a 'media server' in the context of it only accessing content ** | |
| [21:08:19] | wagnerrp_: | new hardware comes tomorrow, with no heatsinks. i need to stop by microcenter tonight and pick up a pair |
| [21:08:46] | Quantum`: | For what? |
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| [21:10:54] | wagnerrp_: | upgraded backend |
| [21:11:52] | Quantum`: | Yea, but CPU, chipset, graphics? And what specifically? |
| [21:12:58] | wagnerrp_: | pair of 4334 opterons |
| [21:14:12] | Quantum`: | I've gone to water-cooling. Mining. |
| [21:15:39] | wagnerrp_: | water cooling requires too much plumbing to be worthwhile |
| [21:15:42] | ** justinh didn't laugh *much* at news of the bitcoin miner who took a HDD containing coins now worth millions to the dump ** | |
| [21:16:56] | Quantum`: | If ya need it, ya need it. |
| [21:17:14] | ** Quantum` doesn't laugh at others' misery. ** | |
| [21:17:27] | ** justinh does. Lots ** | |
| [21:17:42] | justinh: | that guy was whining all over the news over here |
| [21:18:11] | Quantum`: | Well, sometimes we're just busy and forget things. Don't you? |
| [21:18:55] | wagnerrp_: | i don't forget the bulk of my net wealth |
| [21:18:55] | justinh: | sometimes we're just greedy |
| [21:19:13] | Quantum`: | Whelp, time to perform major surgery on my database... |
| [21:20:03] | justinh: | when he stashed the drive in a cupboard the coins were presumably next to worthless.. so he didn't actually *lose* any money |
| [21:20:33] | Quantum`: | Yes it's not like we all knew they were a goldmine then. |
| [21:20:36] | justinh: | certainly not millions |
| [21:20:51] | justinh: | they might not be even tomorrow |
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| [21:21:15] | justinh: | soon it might be that the only people who made any money from bitcoins were the ones selling mining hardware |
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| [21:21:52] | Quantum`: | I can see a very good use and need for them. The new cash. |
| [21:22:25] | Quantum`: | Whether it takes a month or ten years, I'm trying. I remember how hard it was for Visa to be accepted. |
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| [21:23:37] | Quantum`: | In my database, what do I need besides mythconverg? |
| [21:23:53] | wagnerrp_: | mysql |
| [21:24:06] | Quantum`: | information_schema? |
| [21:24:27] | Quantum`: | performance_schema? test? |
| [21:24:42] | clever: | information_schema is generated at runtime, nothing in there actualy exists on disk |
| [21:25:09] | Quantum`: | So I can drop it? and Performance? |
| [21:25:20] | clever: | dropping it will likely damage the server |
| [21:25:26] | wagnerrp_: | there's no reason to do so |
| [21:25:28] | justinh: | .. because saving 1MB of space is.. ? |
| [21:25:47] | clever: | it doesnt exist on disk, dropping information_schema wont save any disk space |
| [21:26:04] | Quantum`: | The idea is security. |
| [21:26:17] | Quantum`: | I don't want anything that's not absolutely needed. |
| [21:26:18] | clever: | lock down the users and it wont matter |
| [21:26:26] | justinh: | Quantum`: if you care about security you don't run mythtv. End of story |
| [21:27:22] | Quantum`: | justinh: So this is the point where I'm supposed to a) bicker with you about it, or b) describe to you all the measures I've taken? |
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| [21:27:54] | justinh: | Quantum`: there's no point in either |
| [21:28:00] | justinh: | I don't really care either way |
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| [21:28:32] | justinh: | though I always prefer not to see people making work for nothing |
| [21:28:47] | Quantum`: | Hay, mysql responds to up-arrow... |
| [21:28:57] | justinh: | you can stop it saving histories |
| [21:30:00] | Quantum`: | Now it's time for the hoary: mysql -u mythtv -pmythtv mythconverg < mythtv_backup_12-26–2013.sql |
| [21:30:15] | Quantum`: | mommy! |
| [21:30:43] | wagnerrp_: | seems the board ships with retention clips, so i can just use a standard heatsink |
| [21:30:46] | wagnerrp_: | thats a relief |
| [21:31:41] | justinh: | quick! somebody posted their mysql password in a logged IRC channel |
| [21:32:47] | Quantum`: | Now, see if you can get ti it... |
| [21:33:08] | Quantum`: | OK 70.7MB. |
| [21:33:59] | justinh: | my mysql mythtv password is mythtv too |
| [21:34:01] | Quantum`: | Renamed Recordings, filled database, installed 0.27.1. I think I'm ready to start. |
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| [21:36:21] | Quantum`: | ... clean out .mythtv ... |
| [21:38:14] | Quantum`: | uh oh, I've deleted "smolt", whateverTF that is. (a small salmon?) |
| [21:39:06] | justinh: | mythtv's anonymous stats collector |
| [21:39:25] | justinh: | opt-in stats collector I might add |
| [21:40:04] | wagnerrp_: | i think some distros enable it by default |
| [21:41:17] | justinh: | ouch |
| [21:42:32] | Quantum`: | Alright, I'm afraid there's no more choice but to start it... |
| [21:43:39] | Quantum`: | kerflop. nothing. |
| [21:43:40] | MartinT: | I use password for all my passwords, convenience vs security... I go for convenience |
| [21:44:08] | Quantum`: | Can't even give me a log. |
| [21:46:31] | ** Quantum` furitavely looks up Martin's IP... ** | |
| [21:48:48] | justinh: | password is the password of one of my web accessible accounts.. but what is the name of the account? That'd be telling |
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| [21:51:19] | Quantum`: | (probably mythtalk) |
| [21:51:34] | justinh: | hahaha you'd be welcome to that account |
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| [21:52:20] | Quantum`: | O, I didn't go back far enough in database backup. |
| [21:52:49] | Quantum`: | godammit |
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| [21:53:09] | justinh: | anybody would be quite welcome to impersonate me on mythtvtalk.com – it'd be interesting to see how long they could maintain that level of antse |
| [21:53:43] | Quantum`: | angst? |
| [21:54:03] | justinh: | despair, mostly |
| [21:54:18] | justinh: | you try being a mod on a forum like that for as long as I did & not go a little bit mad |
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| [21:56:44] | justinh: | and this is why some people shouldn't be allowed to design UIs.. http://www.mythtvtalk.com/theme-development-c . . . ovice-16901/ |
| [21:57:19] | Quantum`: | Dec 6th is not far enough back... |
| [21:59:49] | wagnerrp_: | Quantum`: just find the backup mythtv automatically made for you when it upgraded the schema |
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| [22:00:18] | Quantum`: | wagnerrp: Where is that? |
| [22:01:00] | sphery: | in a directory in your DB Backups storage group, if specified, or in your Default storage group, if no DB Backups SG, or in /tmp if you haven't defined either |
| [22:01:01] | Quantum`: | Never knew about that until today... |
| [22:02:06] | Quantum`: | I remember such a setting in Settings, but it's not in ~/.mythtv, nd that's where I'd normally put such things. |
| [22:03:14] | sphery: | the "setting" would be in mythtv-setup |
| [22:03:18] | sphery: | it's a Storage Group |
| [22:03:49] | sphery: | the only real setting related to DB backups is one that says not to do them, ever--which is saying, "no need to help me out because I'm infallible" |
| [22:04:18] | sphery: | but look wherever you have your TV recordings |
| [22:04:52] | sphery: | and/or use locate/find to find mythconverg*sql* files |
| [22:04:52] | Quantum`: | For heaven's sake, yes it's in ~/TV/DB-Backup... |
| [22:05:10] | sphery: | should have today's date in it, assuming you upgraded today |
| [22:06:26] | justinh: | at least it wasn't in /var somewhere |
| [22:06:28] | ** justinh spits ** | |
| [22:09:48] | Quantum`: | This is weird. The mythconverg backup name seems to have the schema level in it, and it's 1307 until today. |
| [22:10:16] | Quantum`: | I've run 0.28 nightlies since Jan at least. |
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| [22:10:46] | Quantum`: | ... and today 0.27.1 would not run because the schema was higher than it demands. |
| [22:12:35] | Quantum`: | That must not be the schema number, as 0.27.1 is 1317. |
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| [22:14:20] | Quantum`: | ... and 0.28 nightly, which I've run since January is 1321. |
| [22:14:36] | stuartm: | Quantum`: sorry, wasn't paying close enough attention earlier, it sounds like it would be much easier just to grab the updated mythbuntu theme? |
| [22:15:24] | stuartm: | tgm4883_: is the version of the mythbuntu theme we host the latest? |
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| [22:18:24] | Quantum`: | stuartm: That's OK. Have tried that. Updated and everything. Now I've cleaned out .mythtv as best I can and will try it. |
| [22:19:07] | Quantum`: | ... trying to find a sysv or systemd start file for the server, which I could have sworn is in the source... |
| [22:22:58] | stuartm: | it's the theme which is the problem, not the version of mythtv that you are using, nothing (absolutely nothing) has changed in the way the UI is drawn etc between 0.27 and master (trunk/head/etc) |
| [22:29:12] | Quantum`: | Well, I only have the butt-ugly Terra, or the two MythCenters to choose from. No other themes. |
| [22:29:35] | Quantum`: | Haven't installed plugins yet. |
| [22:29:56] | Quantum`: | ... and when I choose MythCenter, it flips back to Terra. |
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| [22:37:13] | Quantum`: | OK, restarted and now it's on MythCenter. But that's the only choice. |
| [22:38:32] | Quantum`: | There must be some special compile for themes. mythplugins didn't do it. |
| [22:46:49] | Quantum`: | Nothing. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV-HOWTO#Appearance |
| [22:47:20] | Quantum`: | And those are the only two themes in the source. No wonder it's all I get. |
| [22:51:27] | Quantum`: | "These themes are currently available through the Theme Chooser in the frontend. " |
| [22:51:31] | Quantum`: | No they're not. |
| [22:51:40] | Quantum`: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Themes |
| [22:52:33] | Quantum`: | O, right-arrow is the secret code. |
| [23:02:27] | tgm4883_: | stuartm, it's close, but not the latest. I haven't updated the version number in a little while but it should be close I think |
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| [23:02:37] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, stuartm screenshot of the issue? |
| [23:04:22] | stuartm: | I should delete Terra ... |
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| [23:08:19] | Quantum`: | No one would be sad that Terra is gone. |
| [23:08:45] | Quantum`: | Trying to decide which menu theme... |
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| [23:18:34] | Quantum`: | tgm4883_: Here's a screenie of mythbutu theme: http://postimg.org/image/v9oys0kol/ |
| [23:18:49] | Quantum`: | It looks nothing like it does in the theme chooser. |
| [23:19:20] | Quantum`: | Should have transparancy. Have a larger thumbnail. |
| [23:20:05] | tgm4883_: | The thumbnail is probably old |
| [23:21:36] | tgm4883_: | also, the screenshot you posted doesn't show much |
| [23:21:44] | Quantum`: | Mine is how mythbuntu has looked since 0.22. |
| [23:22:03] | tgm4883_: | sec |
| [23:22:08] | Quantum`: | That's recordings. I've just gone back in schema so had to delete everything. |
| [23:23:25] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, is this the thumbnail you see https://github.com/MythTV-Themes/Mythbuntu.git |
| [23:23:28] | tgm4883_: | hmm |
| [23:23:32] | tgm4883_: | https://github.com/MythTV-Themes/Mythbuntu/bl . . . /preview.png |
| [23:23:35] | tgm4883_: | that one |
| [23:25:11] | Quantum`: | Y that's what I think it's supposed to look like. |
| [23:26:32] | tgm4883_: | yea that is pretty close to what it should look like |
| [23:27:09] | Quantum`: | Mine looks like it has since 0.22. |
| [23:27:56] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, yours looks correct to me. You don't have any artwork so I'm not sure what you are expecting |
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| [23:29:11] | Quantum`: | As I say, it should have transparency, a thumbnail to the left, and be laid out like it is in the theme chooser. |
| [23:29:50] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, by thumbnail on the left, do you mean the boxart? |
| [23:29:54] | tgm4883_: | err, coverart |
| [23:30:10] | Quantum`: | Y |
| [23:30:27] | Quantum`: | Instead there's the list of program groups on mine. |
| [23:31:06] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, it will only show the coverart if 2 things are true |
| [23:32:06] | tgm4883_: | 1) You must have the program selected. The program must be selected in the right pane (eg the right pane has focus) |
| [23:32:19] | tgm4883_: | 2) You must have coverart associated with that show |
| [23:32:51] | tgm4883_: | I don't know what "France 24" is, so I'm unsure if there is coverart for it at the normal tv site |
| [23:33:37] | tgm4883_: | Now to address the other part, what do you mean by "Transparency"? Do you mean where you can see the background art? |
| [23:34:15] | Quantum`: | Y. There's no sign of transparency. |
| [23:34:45] | tgm4883_: | Same rules apply as for coverart |
| [23:36:03] | tgm4883_: | The absolute latest looks like http://imagebin.org/292834 |
| [23:37:09] | Quantum`: | That would be very nice. But I get none of that. |
| [23:37:25] | Quantum`: | Doesn't matter if I select the recording. |
| [23:37:44] | tgm4883_: | Quantum`, are you sure you have coverart/fanart? |
| [23:37:51] | Quantum`: | No cover art, and in fact it doesn't update the description below when I select a recording. |
| [23:38:46] | tgm4883_: | You could blow away the theme and themecache for the mythbuntu theme and grab the latest from github, but if you don't have any of the artwork it's not going to help |
| [23:39:12] | Quantum`: | I've already done that. |
| [23:39:32] | Quantum`: | There are several places to set up cover art, so I'm not sure which you mean. |
| [23:39:38] | tgm4883_: | Then I don't think you have the artwork |
| [23:40:09] | tgm4883_: | I don't recall exactly how it's gathered for recordings |
| [23:40:14] | tgm4883_: | probably a wagnerrp question |
| [23:40:58] | wagnerrp: | for recordings, make sure the proper job is set to run on the recording rule |
| [23:41:10] | wagnerrp: | and then enable the daily housekeeper task to maintain artwork |
| [23:41:39] | tgm4883_: | looks like you can force a metadata lookup job for a recording too, which I think grabs artwork |
| [23:41:40] | Quantum`: | It must not be set then. |
| [23:42:14] | NightMonkey (NightMonkey!~NightrMon@pdpc/supporter/professional/nightmonkey) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:42:42] | Quantum`: | System Event Handlers? |
| [23:43:01] | tgm4883_: | Also, thetvdb.com doesn't know what "France 24" is |
| [23:43:07] | tgm4883_: | so you aren't going to get any info for that |
| [23:43:18] | Quantum`: | Media Settings? |
| [23:43:49] | wagnerrp: | probably media settings for the daily housekeeping task |
| [23:44:53] | Quantum`: | I have Perform Metadata Lookup checked, and have for as long as I can remember. |
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| [23:45:23] | Quantum`: | But that seems to be for Videos, not Recordings. |
| [23:45:54] | wagnerrp: | videos has a separate option, perform bulk lookup after a scan |
| [23:46:30] | tgm4883_: | DId you allow your backend to do metadata lookup jobs? |
| [23:46:44] | tgm4883_: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Enhancing_Recordin . . . data_Lookups |
| [23:46:45] | wagnerrp: | i think it should be able to by default |
| [23:52:18] | Quantum`: | I have Allow Metadata lookup jobs checked too. |
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| [23:52:28] | MilkBoy (MilkBoy!~milkboy@v6.yone.fi) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:56:28] | Quantum`: | I even have Artwork and Data Sources set to TheMovieDB.org v3, TheTVDB.com, and GiantBomb Query. |
| [23:57:07] | Quantum`: | Oh, but I didn't have Perform Daily Updates checked. |
| [23:57:13] | Quantum`: | Trying that. |
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